C7 RS7 motor mount replacement

[passatevos]

I'm writing to see if anyone can assist me in the proper procedure as per Audi how to replace the motor mounts on a C7 (2015 to be specific) RS7. The issue is Audi replaced my motor mounts (as part of an insurance claim sublet repair) and after the repair job I ended up hearing a clicking noise for about a month. Naturally I returned it to the repair shop who was originally tasked with my bumper repair who stated that they only did bumper work and sent it to Audi for the suspension/frame inspection and, if needed repairs. When I ended up taking it back to Audi, they identified 3 subframe bolts were loose. I let them know they were the last ones to preform work on it when they did the motor mounts however, they still charged me for finding and correcting the sub frame bolt issue. They stated that when they replaced the motor mounts, they didn't touch the subframe. I'm asking the Audizine community to help me identify, if the repair as per the service manual calls for any portion of the subframe to be removed and if so, where can I find this information. Thank you in advance.

[09S5]

Maybe useful
I used to own a 2017 Audi s7, local Audi dealership replaced both engine mounts.
Here is the invoice it does mention the subframe actuator on the invoice. Hopefully, this helps.


Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[A4x]

Maybe useful
I used to own a 2017 Audi s7, local Audi dealership replaced both engine mounts.

What was the labor time on that invoice?

[09S5]

Invoice doesn't show time .

But this particular dealership charged $237.00 hourly rate, I guess 8 hrs. For engine mounts
Total labor was $1989.77

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[passatevos]

I will have to ask GEICO or the body shop for that. I’ll try to swing by there tomorrow and find out.

[passatevos]

Does anyone know what the Audi mechanic is suppose to reference when he does the motor mounts? I guess a better question is does anyone have access to a Haynes or Bentley service manual? If some for motor mount repair does it include touching the subframe bolts?

[09S5]

I believe Audi uses this piece for repairs.

https://erwin.audiusa.com/erwin/showHome.do

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[Gunnarrrrr]

I believe Audi uses this piece for repairs.

https://erwin.audiusa.com/erwin/showHome.do

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

I KNOW audi uses this for repairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Valpo A7]

@passatevos check your PMs

[passatevos]

replied

[passatevos]

I believe Audi uses this piece for repairs.

https://erwin.audiusa.com/erwin/showHome.do

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Thank you. I'm going to look through this and the repair manual Valpo A7 sent and see if it calls for the subframe to be touched during that repair.

[poloshirt]

If they replaced both they would have had to lower the front subframe. If they only did the passenger side, the repair manual only calls for slightly lifting the motor and removing the oil filter housing

[Burkeomatic]

There's two ways, lower the subframe, or lift the engine. The Erwin manual for the D4 cars shows dropping the subframe for the record. So your dealer is flat out lying, or the service writer just told you without knowing.

[Akakios]

https://www.034motorsport.com/docs/0...structions.pdf

[Botbasher]

If they replaced both they would have had to lower the front sub-frame. If they only did the passenger side, the repair manual only calls for slightly lifting the motor and removing the oil filter housing

I can confirm this... the passenger mount can be swapped with ONLY motor support and sway bar drop. I wish I had thought of the filter housing as it was tight against it several times, but I got it out without issue. The aftermarket mounts are much smaller so going back in is not an issue!

The one thing the Instructions DO NOT MENTION is that you should disconnect your battery. One video I watched the guy said he popped the main fuse while trying to figure out how to orient it for removal. I bet that was a craptacular moment under the car. I didn't do it at first, but as soon as I started swinging all that metal around in there I stopped and disco'd it!

The sway bar isn't vital to drop, but it makes access a bit easier and only takes a few seconds.

All told, I was under the car for 1.5 hours swapping from OEM to ECS (sorry... 034, but not today!) and never having done this before, I thought was pretty good, but that does mean the drivers side is worth about 4-5 hours if the 6 hour total for both people claim is true!

That's on the docket after I get back from vacation though. Nothing worse than going on vacation with bruised and mangled hands!

Cheers,

KS

EDIT: I have ECS, not 034 mounts. Reading too many different threads. My bad!

[A4x]

I can confirm this... the passenger mount can be swapped with ONLY motor support and sway bar drop. I wish I had thought of the filter housing as it was tight against it several times, but I got it out without issue. The aftermarket mounts are much smaller so going back in is not an issue!

The one thing the Instructions DO NOT MENTION is that you should disconnect your battery. One video I watched the guy said he popped the main fuse while trying to figure out how to orient it for removal. I bet that was a craptacular moment under the car. I didn't do it at first, but as soon as I started swinging all that metal around in there I stopped and disco'd it!

The sway bar isn't vital to drop, but it makes access a bit easier and only takes a few seconds.

All told, I was under the car for 1.5 hours swapping from OEM to 034 and never having done this before, I thought was pretty good, but that does mean the drivers side is worth about 4-5 hours if the 6 hour total for both people claim is true!

That's on the docket after I get back from vacation though. Nothing worse than going on vacation with bruised and mangled hands!

Cheers,

KS

Did you swap just the right side from OEM to 034? I'm thinking to go this route, until the driver side fails a few years later.

[Botbasher]

Did you swap just the right side from OEM to 034? I'm thinking to go this route, until the driver side fails a few years later.

They are ECS mounts (I misspoke) and I have plans to do both too, but the trans decided it needed me to swap at least the Rt Side out ASAP! Lot's of bucking, harsh shifts and general lack of power! I'd seen several warnings about only swapping one but I took the chance and it seems that the car is MUCH happier than it was! I'll swap the Drivers after I get back from all my travels, but I wouldn't have any issues with doing only the pass side and leaving it for a while, especially if it's an OEM mount.

The only thing to worry about mixing mounts is are you CoD Deleted? That's because I'm told that non-OEM mounts and CoD have HUGE vibration issues, aftermarkets are VERY stiff by comparison, and that I wouldn't enjoy since I do a lot of cruising on the highway. Maybe that's where the warning for doing only the pass side comes from??

Good luck on the swap! I highly suggest it if you know your mount is dead!

Cheers,

KS

[joeyjazesmith]

I replaced my engine mounts on my 2015 s6 with the ECS mounts back in December. I followed the 034 instructions and I can also confirm that if both mounts are done the subframe would have to be dropped because of the driver side mount. There is a thread for it in the v8 section https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Engine-Mounts . The subframe bolts are yield to fail / stretch bolts that have to be replaced as they are one time use. If reused it will lead to those creaking sounds in the chassis. Its 8 bolts in total and i got mine for $70ish from the dealer. Takes like an hour to replace and torque to specs. It sounds as if they did the job and did not replace them. Part number WHT005657 for the subframe bolt and on the audi website its listed as "Part cannot be reused/reinstalled".

[joeyjazesmith]

They are ECS mounts (I misspoke) and I have plans to do both too, but the trans decided it needed me to swap at least the Rt Side out ASAP! Lot's of bucking, harsh shifts and general lack of power! I'd seen several warnings about only swapping one but I took the chance and it seems that the car is MUCH happier than it was! I'll swap the Drivers after I get back from all my travels, but I wouldn't have any issues with doing only the pass side and leaving it for a while, especially if it's an OEM mount.

The only thing to worry about mixing mounts is are you CoD Deleted? That's because I'm told that non-OEM mounts and CoD have HUGE vibration issues, aftermarkets are VERY stiff by comparison, and that I wouldn't enjoy since I do a lot of cruising on the highway. Maybe that's where the warning for doing only the pass side comes from??

Good luck on the swap! I highly suggest it if you know your mount is dead!

Cheers,

KS

I have the ECS performance polyurethane engine mounts on both sides. I finished the 2000 mile break in period and the car is pretty smooth. It is a little noticeable over stock mounts at 1800ish rpms (mentioned on ECS website) and when you're really low in gear like under 1000 rpms (like when driving a manual) but outside that its pretty smooth. I have driven to Connecticut and Boston from NYC a few times since i finished the swap in December and find if I'm cruising in 7th gear i can be around the 1800 ish rpms where the NVH is a little high. So i just downshift into 6th if it gets too much on a longer drive. Im ok with this overall because i do like the NVH they add, it makes the car feel more sporty and i get more v8 noises in the cabin.

[Botbasher]

I replaced my engine mounts on my 2015 s6 with the ECS mounts back in December. I followed the 034 instructions ...

Takes an hour to replace both?? Nice... there's a 30 minute claim on the Telegram group I've wondered about, but maybe it's not so far fetched. Secrets?? I truly wonder what the dealer is doing with all that extra book time then!

The one thing I have wondered, and no DIY's or instructions mention, is the alignment? Did you have any issues after? That's the one thing that's made me pause when planning this job as there is no good alignment shop near me and scheduling both jobs together has proven difficult!

Not going to touch the "one time use" hardware. I swear Audi makes all their profits on selling bolts!

Cheers!

KS

[Botbasher]

I have the ECS performance polyurethane engine mounts on both sides. I finished the 2000 mile break in period and the car is pretty smooth. It is a little noticeable over stock mounts at 1800ish rpms (mentioned on ECS website) and when you're really low in gear like under 1000 rpms (like when driving a manual) but outside that its pretty smooth. I have driven to Connecticut and Boston from NYC a few times since i finished the swap in December and find if I'm cruising in 7th gear i can be around the 1800 ish rpms where the NVH is a little high. So i just downshift into 6th if it gets too much on a longer drive. Im ok with this overall because i do like the NVH they add, it makes the car feel more sporty and i get more v8 noises in the cabin.

Sounds silly, but I noticed a change in the exhaust note since doing the Pass Side. Really makes me wonder how much the throttle was being retarded to compensate for the mount degrading. Going to have to look at the logs (Nice feature of the DS1... perpetual logging!) before and after and see what's changed!

Loving the sound now and can't wait to fab up my exhaust this spring!

Cheers,

KS

[A4x]

The only thing to worry about mixing mounts is are you CoD Deleted? That's because I'm told that non-OEM mounts and CoD have HUGE vibration issues, aftermarkets are VERY stiff by comparison, and that I wouldn't enjoy since I do a lot of cruising on the highway. Maybe that's where the warning for doing only the pass side comes from??

I am not COD-deleted. My right mount is leaking fluid and very quiet on the VCDS test, but still very quiet in 4 cylinder mode. How much worse could one 034 mount be on that right side? I get major heartburn if I think about purchasing a single OEM mount for near $1000.

[Botbasher]

I am not COD-deleted.

I have not been able to find anyone with a before and after comparison of this, but when the mfgs are warning you of severe NVH, I imagine it's pretty bad.

The other one I have heard of guys doing, is filling the mount base (where the fluid is) and upper restraining hoop with sealant and getting good results. I've done this on other motor and suspension mounts over the years with good results, but I can't figure out how to do that without taking the mount out of the car and I refused to do it 2x. So having DS1, going CoD Delete was a simple reflash.

Feel your pain... been there. Keep watch and maybe find a lightly used one on the Classifieds?

Cheers,

KS

[joeyjazesmith]

Takes an hour to replace both?? Nice... there's a 30 minute claim on the Telegram group I've wondered about, but maybe it's not so far fetched. Secrets?? I truly wonder what the dealer is doing with all that extra book time then!

The one thing I have wondered, and no DIY's or instructions mention, is the alignment? Did you have any issues after? That's the one thing that's made me pause when planning this job as there is no good alignment shop near me and scheduling both jobs together has proven difficult!

Not going to touch the "one time use" hardware. I swear Audi makes all their profits on selling bolts!

Cheers!

KS

the 1 hour was just if he wanted to replace the one time use bolts on the subframe himself. The swap took me a few weekends because i was also doing control arms and ran into issues with pinch bolt and getting the engine to align with mounts. I fully understand your fear of subframe alignment as mine is slightly off and its been a hassle to find a shop that can align it. There is a place at the front of the subframe that youre supposed to use a tool to align the subframe with the chassis, but this tool is available no where and im guessing its an audi only tool. The engine mount support is bigger on the driver side than it is on the passenger side and its tighter there due to a coolant line thats runs in the area. The only way for me to get it out was to drop the subframe as much as i could.

[Botbasher]

There is a place at the front of the subframe that youre supposed to use a tool to align the subframe with the chassis, but this tool is available no where and im guessing its an audi only tool.

Yeah... they're impossible to find... Audi, VW, Amazon, ECS, FCP...... Ali!!!

You convinced me though... guess I'll suck it up and buy a set and Get 'R Dun!!!!

I'm kinda disappointed that the official instructions, nor any DIY, mention the need to keep or realign the sub-frame. It seems intuitive to anyone that understands the way the suspension is mounted... but I can see someone that is new really screwing up their alignment and tires!! They don't mention the possibility of shorting the battery either. That one could brick your car pretty easy!!

Oh well... they'll be here by the time I get back from the first trip. Perfect!!

Cheers,

KS

[A4x]

Is the subframe slotted at each bolt through hole? Would it be a good idea to mark the position of the bolts in the slot before loosening and lowering?

[joeyjazesmith]

Yeah... they're impossible to find... Audi, VW, Amazon, ECS, FCP...... Ali!!!

You convinced me though... guess I'll suck it up and buy a set and Get 'R Dun!!!!

I'm kinda disappointed that the official instructions, nor any DIY, mention the need to keep or realign the sub-frame. It seems intuitive to anyone that understands the way the suspension is mounted... but I can see someone that is new really screwing up their alignment and tires!! They don't mention the possibility of shorting the battery either. That one could brick your car pretty easy!!

Oh well... they'll be here by the time I get back from the first trip. Perfect!!

Cheers,

KS

I looked into those but they are not for the a6/s6/rs6 chassis. The one for the a5/s5 looks like it may fit in the alignment hole for the a6/s6 but i havent found one that says its for the a6/s6 model

[Botbasher]

I looked into those but they are not for the a6/s6/rs6 chassis.

I went back through the Service Procedure for the front subframe. It lists nothing for alignment except for marking it with a felt pen.

Marker.jpg

I mentions them for the rear, but not the front.

Could be there isn't a tool for it. Strange, but then again, it is Audi!!

Cheers,

KS

[Audisthesia]

I believe Audi uses this piece for repairs.

https://erwin.audiusa.com/erwin/showHome.do

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Nice link.