Meth/water injections

[09S5]

Was wondering if anyone ever ran water/meth into the intercooler with success. Location where the red dots are.
400cc injections

My only concern is how reliable from leaking is, the hard plastic.
Any help will be appreciated.

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[09S5]

Parts
DS1 ECU Tuner: $1200
Autotech HPFP and New Seals (Kota Performance): $820
Brisk ER10S: $100
CWA100 Pump: $400
SRM TCU Tune (I'll use my cable): $695

Water/Methanol Kit: $750

AEM Pump

AEM Progressive Controller

4AN Line and Fittings

Check Valve

440cc/min Nozzles

Filter and Misc Parts to Complete Install


Labor
Install TGK E85 Flex Fuel Kit, customer provided (including low pressure fuel lines, flex sensor, and wiring for ECU)
Install TGK Air Intake System, customer provided
Install Autotech HPFPs with new seals
Fix exhaust tip contact/rattle and adjust valves to remain open all the time
Install new spark plugs
Install CWA coolant pump
Install Navigation system
Install BTRES

Install SRM TCU tune
Install RS7+ turbos with new o-rings and delete oil screen
Install methanol system using OEM washer fluid tank
Install DS1, custom ECU tune for all modifications


Parts: $3965 (includes SRM TCU flash)
Labor and ECU Tuning: $2800

Total Estimate: $6765



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[benlaud87]

Not the same car, but I welded in bungs to aluminum intercooler piping to avoid plastic nozzle locations.

[Botbasher]

Not the same car, but I welded in bungs to aluminum intercooler piping to avoid plastic nozzle locations.

I thought about the plastic option too except I was going to go in at the turn i.e. right into the intake!! JB Weld works wonders at making a threadable bung, but then I started worrying about cracking and heat cycling. Right there doesn't a whole lot of extra room either and many systems don't have very low profile mounts!! Vibrations, heat, access... I decided to look elsewhere.

With those concerns, I started at looking at what the big boys were doing. Most of them are putting a pair into the output side of the turbos, pre-IC... and if it's good enough for 900-1100hp, I figure it'll work for me to!!! Klassen and Hass have already figured it out... I choose to follow their path! Some go and do port injection, and when I pull the motor in the future, I'll look into that... one day!

Just a note... you might want to add a solenoid cut-off on your WMI system. I found on my 2.0 install that the vacuum was more than enough to passively drain the tank even through the check valve!! I'd see very low IAT when just driving around and it took a while to understand the problem. Added the valve and my tank levels remained high with the system inactive! I was using the Snow Performance Stage 3 system and other than that little drama it was a perfect match!!

Cheers,

KS

[RS5ish]

I beleive oleg has a neat solution and Bob Orr has threaded plates that mount to the plastic inlet.

Do RS7+ turbos need meth or are you just after lower IAT's?

[Botbasher]

I believe Oleg has a neat solution and Bob Orr has threaded plates that mount to the plastic inlet.

Personally I like that position for them (SRM Plates, I presume?), but it moves the entire plenum and everything attached to it (PCV, BOVs...) forward. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme, but I wonder why big euro builders aren't as fond of it? And what do you do with every line that runs in front of the plenum? I have not seen one personally so all this is academic but still valid concerns for a daily driven car.

Here's is Hass's latest take on it. I like the placement at the BOV intake. Close to the IC and easily replaceable if it doesn't work out. I like spraying it at the IC because in my logic it vaporizes instantly and passively cools the IC a little bit more!

1100BHP SINGLE TURBO.jpg

Tuning and modding are like ice cream... lot's of different flavors, all are cool but some are just better and you know this by how empty the tubs are! Granted we're not getting into 1100hp single turbos here, but some of it is directly applicable no matter what the output level.

Cheers,

KS

[Audibellybutton]

I'm running meth at this location. it works. gets the job done, not a lot of places to spray on this car, I dont like how the engine bay looks with those spacers or fitment with the pcv. so drilling the plenum was my preferred route.

I also have 1 nozzle in each turbo and 1 on each bank.

another note, for going through all that effort to install meth... 400cc x2 is tiny AF

Meth is definitely worth it. I live in a hot climate. cant believe I ever ran this car without meth. It needs it badly and it makes a HUGE difference on IAT and knock resistance. You can get the knock resistance with High E content but you wont get the cooling benefits. Thats why i run high E+ Meth injection

Edit - If you are using AEM kit you will need to get snow performance or prometh nozzles with 90 degree holders. AEM nozzles will NOT fit that location


Er10s will suffice for your RS7+ but if you are serious about making power you should run the ER08S

[Botbasher]

I also have 1 nozzle in each turbo and 1 on each bank.

Got a pic of those placements?? Turbo I understand but what do you mean by "each bank"?

another note, for going through all that effort to install meth... 400cc x2 is tiny AF

Yeah... I'm at 1000cc (1x 625 at TB & 1x 375 at inlet to IC) on my A5 2.0tfsi running 30psi. The progressive controller is awesome for that. Put in nozzles you know are going to be more than enough and then tune them into submission!

With the RS7+ turbos I'm planning on installing, I was thinking about starting with at least 2x 625 at the turbos and possibly adding in some 375s at the IC. Easy to add more than you need and tune it down!

Yeah, it's a wonder it's not more popular. I love how smooth it delivers the added power to the car. Without it, the 2.0 seemed "high strung" and anxious. With it, it just seemed to want to pull forever. And the IATs!!! Wow! 40F-60F drops from ambient are easy. Watching the IAT go from 105F to 60F is crazy!

As undercooled as the 4.0t is, I'm excited to see what it'll do for it!

Cheers,

KS

[Botbasher]

If you are using AEM kit you will need to get snow performance or prometh nozzles with 90 degree holders. AEM nozzles will NOT fit that location

What blocks and bungs are you thinking?? Even the Snow blocks, I have on mine, are going to be a VERY tight squeeze. Supposedly there is a lower profile version of it, but I have yet to lay hands on to measure.

Cheers,

KS

[Audibellybutton]

Got a pic of those placements?? Turbo I understand but what do you mean by "each bank"?



Yeah... I'm at 1000cc (1x 625 at TB & 1x 375 at inlet to IC) on my A5 2.0tfsi running 30psi. The progressive controller is awesome for that. Put in nozzles you know are going to be more than enough and then tune them into submission!

With the RS7+ turbos I'm planning on installing, I was thinking about starting with at least 2x 625 at the turbos and possibly adding in some 225s at the IC. Easy to add more than you need and tune it down!

Yeah, it's a wonder it's not more popular. I love how smooth it delivers the added power to the car. Without it, the 2.0 seemed "high strung" and anxious. With it, it just seemed to want to pull forever. And the IATs!!! Wow! 40F-60F drops from ambient are easy. Watching the IAT go from 105F to 60F is crazy!

As undercooled as the 4.0t is, I'm excited to see what it'll do for it!

Cheers,

KS

hey well they do say the 4.0t is just 2 x 2.0t

I'm running around 2375 cc Ive seen some people run 3000cc+ but I'm not saying you should run a lot of meth like that, but for this car spraying 800cc in total, unless you were running 100% meth wouldnt be a huge improvement. 1000cc/1200cc is a good starting point. I dont think I will be going over where I'm at anytime soon, its a good amount for my power goals but i can always adjust accordingly


as for the nozzle holders i'm talking about these, you had some in your pic up there as well

https://www.lethalperformance.com/sn...r-sno-901.html

If you have any questions or need help with the meth setup shoot me a PM, I run an AEM kit with some upgrades/tweaks


oh yeah and by "each bank" I mean I have my nozzles mounted like OP's picture, except each nozzle closer to each side/bank. IDK if thats the best, but OP's suggested placement works too, some say better

[09S5]

I beleive oleg has a neat solution and Bob Orr has threaded plates that mount to the plastic inlet.

Do RS7+ turbos need meth or are you just after lower IAT's?

Lower IAT.

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[09S5]

I'm running meth at this location. it works. gets the job done, not a lot of places to spray on this car, I dont like how the engine bay looks with those spacers or fitment with the pcv. so drilling the plenum was my preferred route.

I also have 1 nozzle in each turbo and 1 on each bank.

another note, for going through all that effort to install meth... 400cc x2 is tiny AF

Meth is definitely worth it. I live in a hot climate. cant believe I ever ran this car without meth. It needs it badly and it makes a HUGE difference on IAT and knock resistance. You can get the knock resistance with High E content but you wont get the cooling benefits. Thats why i run high E+ Meth injection

Edit - If you are using AEM kit you will need to get snow performance or prometh nozzles with 90 degree holders. AEM nozzles will NOT fit that location


Er10s will suffice for your RS7+ but if you are serious about making power you should run the ER08S

another note, for going through all that effort to install meth... 400cc x2 is tiny AF

What's the recommended size?

Tuner recommended that size.

I don't want a cruise missile, just a little fun driver.
My wife still drives the car sometimes.

I think 600/650 AWD is good.

I don't want shit to start breaking parts, man.

That can be a nightmare.







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[Botbasher]

oh yeah and by "each bank" I mean I have my nozzles mounted like OP's picture, except each nozzle closer to each side/bank. IDK if thats the best, but OP's suggested placement works too, some say better

I was thinking about that, but at the other end... firing right into the manifold. Is there enough clearance and no interference from fans, hoses and such??

Hmmmm. Might have to rethink this and go staged... 625s in the manifold and 375s in the turbos. Use the 300s for general cooling and the 600s for high boost!

Oh the agony of Analysis Paralysis!!!

Cheers!!

KS

[Audibellybutton]

another note, for going through all that effort to install meth... 400cc x2 is tiny AF

What's the recommended size?

Tuner recommended that size.

I don't want a cruise missile, just a little fun driver.
My wife still drives the car sometimes.

I think 600/650 AWD is good.

I don't want shit to start breaking parts, man.

That can be a nightmare.






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thats fair, the meth will def help with the cooling, you can get to those power levels on e50+ alone

[Audibellybutton]

mine spray into the runners, on the passenger side theres a huge indent that makes room for the radiator hose. So you wont be able to get perfect placement on that side. I've heard people say its better to spray like OP because the meth has more distance to mix with the air. My setup works, no need to change, but thats something to consider if you are planning it

[09S5]

I was thinking about that, but at the other end... firing right into the manifold. Is there enough clearance and no interference from fans, hoses and such??

Hmmmm. Might have to rethink this and go staged... 625s in the manifold and 375s in the turbos. Use the 300s for general cooling and the 600s for high boost!

Oh the agony of Analysis Paralysis!!!

Cheers!!

KS

Sounds like good safe power.

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[09S5]

I'm in good shape, and the car will be with a reputable tuner.
I'm sure I'm going to have a Beast over here.
Adam is the GOAT.


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[Botbasher]

I've heard people say its better to spray like OP because the meth has more distance to mix with the air.

That's why I am leaning towards a 2 stage setup. Low volume up in the turbos. Guarantee vaporization before the IC and help cooling. The big boys down low for higher than average boost levels!

Just thinking about OP placement. That would also cool the plenum itself too. All that hot azz wind from the radiator cannot be helping this situation at all!! I had actually considered placing them in the nook with the thermostat. Shooting straight down the plenum.

Ugh.. so much to consider!

Cheers,

KS

[Botbasher]

I'm sure I'm going to have a Beast over here.

600hp... beast?!? It'll be fun for sure but these cars hit Beast Mode at 900-1000hp these days! I'm looking to at least get into the Naughty Pony Realm!!

Hass trains the Beasts!! Watch the hosts eyes get big when he gets on it and it starts to wiggle under him!! That's Beast Mode! The more amazing thing is that it's all stock below that turbo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsOn7NSxNic&t=59s

Cheers,

KS

[Audibellybutton]

That's why I am leaning towards a 2 stage setup. Low volume up in the turbos. Guarantee vaporization before the IC and help cooling. The big boys down low for higher than average boost levels!

Just thinking about OP placement. That would also cool the plenum itself too. All that hot azz wind from the radiator cannot be helping this situation at all!! I had actually considered placing them in the nook with the thermostat. Shooting straight down the plenum.

Ugh.. so much to consider!

Cheers,

KS

I have not had any leaks from my nozzles even at over 30psi of boost, I've done boost leak tests and the plenum nozzles have not leaked at all yet, i did use red rtv as thread sealant too though. But it is plastic threads still.

you could also buy these, they are much better

https://pinnacleperformanceauto.com/...-nozzle-holder

[09S5]

600hp... beast?!? It'll be fun for sure but these cars hit Beast Mode at 900-1000hp these days! I'm looking to at least get into the Naughty Pony Realm!!

Hass trains the Beasts!! Watch the hosts eyes get big when he gets on it and it starts to wiggle under him!! That's Beast Mode! The more amazing thing is that it's all stock below that turbo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsOn7NSxNic&t=59s

Cheers,

KS

Ima trying get the wife to watch it with me. She knows this is my favorite hobby....
Lately, she has been digging the idea of adding some modifications to the Heavyweight Champ.
lol..

I appreciated the video.

I'm locked and loaded....




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[16AudiS8+]

Mine are in the location you have in the Pic. Plenty of room in the d4.

I'm only running 500cc either side and I think over a 1/4mile starting 30f over ambient I'll see temp drop to just at ambient maybe a degree lower and then slowly rise to a few degrees below where I started.

I never tuned for my setup and only run washer fluid with a bottle of heet added. It comes out to about 35% methanol rest water.

On another note, anyone running methanol pre intercooler, methanol is corrosive to aluminum. Me mindful of checking on condition of the IC.

[Audibellybutton]

Mine are in the location you have in the Pic. Plenty of room in the d4.

I'm only running 500cc either side and I think over a 1/4mile starting 30f over ambient I'll see temp drop to just at ambient maybe a degree lower and then slowly rise to a few degrees below where I started.

I never tuned for my setup and only run washer fluid with a bottle of heet added. It comes out to about 35% methanol rest water.

On another note, anyone running methanol pre intercooler, methanol is corrosive to aluminum. Me mindful of checking on condition of the IC.

how are your fuel trims? A custom tune would really balance it and wake the car up, although at those % i'm sure your o2 can compensate fine as well. But usually adding meth without tuning for it loses power.

As for corrosion, methanol is corrosive, but just like with ethanol its severely overstated. I have not seen any corrosion in my fuel system running e50-e60 nor on my turbo or intercooler with 100% methanol. Here is a video to watch, and then to consider the temperatures inside there, methanol touches the intercooler but definitely never rests there for any extended period of time. it is almost evaporating immediately. This video shows the effects of alumininum soaking in methanol for years. Use that as a comparison


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuIQFuiMaVc

[16AudiS8+]

Car certainly runs on the richer side, and the lambda fast is pulling fuel from what's requested.

Would it be faster, for sure. But the car ran a 10.6 @ 130 on the strip and my only hardware mods are the lines and methanol.

2016 s8+

[Audibellybutton]

Car certainly runs on the richer side, and the lambda fast is pulling fuel from what's requested.

Would it be faster, for sure. But the car ran a 10.6 @ 130 on the strip and my only hardware mods are the lines and methanol.

2016 s8+

oh okay nice, thats good you keep an eye on things, probably aren't causing any issues with that methanol % since your fast control can compensate, but theres definitely power left on the table like that

[Botbasher]

Was able to sit down this weekend and while taking care of a few oil leaks, got the WMI injection set up installed in the engine bay.

Went in cleanly and I'm very happy with how the bay portion of the install turned out. Now on to the hard part... figuring out where/how to mount the Snow Stg. 3 controller without looking like I installed a Stg. 3 Controller!

Here's some pics for reference!

Cheers,

KS

Managed to pack it all (Pump, Check & solenoid valve and filter) right behind the headlight. Pull the air intakes and you have fairly easy access to everything you might need to get at.
20250301_170106.jpg

With the headlight and core support installed, there is little extra room, but it all clears and fits.
20250301_170056.jpg

I decided to put the nozzles where I did as there are 2 mold injection points equidistant from the ins & outs of the plenum. I figured the plastic might be a little thicker there and drilled away!
20241109_151541.jpg

I jumped on the laser at work and cut a bunch of stainless up for mounting plates. Silicone gaskets and just a drop of sealant should be good for more PSI than I'm willing to toss at a stock block!
20241109_152018.jpg

The finished product. These lines are inches behind a 200F blast furnace called the radiator, so I covered them in some high temp sheathing to give the plastic the best chance to survive the hostile environment there. Only time will tell!
20241109_171818.jpg
20241109_181210.jpg

[Audibellybutton]

Nice install. It will hold up fine at those locations

[Botbasher]

Nice install. It will hold up fine at those locations

Thanks! Yeah, the pump is mounted to the frame rail so it'll never go anywhere! I managed to get all the plumbing softly routed as well, so really low possibilities of kinking and cracking. With it tucked along the rail, there's still enough room for some aux intercooling ideas I have when I upgrade the Hx.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with all the space I was intending to use for the WMI pump by removing the SAI and vac tank. Big empty bracket now! Any ideas?

Cheers,

KS