Considering Deleting the Balance Shafts

[MongoMcG]

I was wondering (before I look into it too much) if anyone has info/advice on deleting the balance shafts? I ask because balance shafts are a known failure point that can mess up the oiling, leading to damage to expensive new engine parts. The balance shafts spin at twice the RPMs of the crank, and I am building up a motor capable of 7500 RPMs or more, so the balance shafts could be turning as many as 15-16,000 RPMs.

I guess, from what I've read so far, a balance shaft delete requires swapping in an oil pump from a 1.8L or tapping an oil return line and keeping the 2.0L oil pump. It also requires welding closed some areas of the engine. Other than that, I don't know much about it.

I assume the rotating assembly (pistons, rods, crank) would need to be dynamically balanced, which was already planned. What else?

Something else I'd like to know: is the motor under greater threat from potentially failing balance shafts, or from eliminating the balance shafts? And what are potential pitfalls of eliminating the balance shafts?

It seems like a lot of work to delete them, but it also seems less expensive than what results from oil not getting to where it needs to be. As I said, I don't know much about it. It feels like a 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other thing at the moment.

Any thoughts? Dumb idea? Has anyone tried it yet/results?

[Allowencer]

Question #1: you must NA balance the crank and all rotating assembly if you even want to think about removing the balance shafts

Question #2: why do you want to rev that high? What setup are you going to run? What turbo?

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[Theiceman]

What you are talking about is a B7 EA113 thing

Not sure its ever been done on a B8 EA888 engine. Not sure i would try it either.

I think oil path goes around the balance shaft bearings before anywhere else .. you would have zero pressure if you removed the balance shafts , so you would have to just remove the drive gear of the timing chain. Not sure id be messing with the engine to that level.

[Allowencer]

What you are talking about is a B7 EA113 thing

Not sure its ever been done on a B8 EA888 engine. Not sure i would try it either.

I think oil path goes around the balance shaft bearings before anywhere else .. you would have zero pressure if you removed the balance shafts , so you would have to just remove the drive gear of the timing chain. Not sure id be messing with the engine to that level.

It is a think on the EA113. Some builds like to rev high and the balance shafts in that block are poorly made to begin with. So guys remove them.

I do not know of a reason on the EA888.2/3. The failures that occur is due to poor maintenance overall which is why the bearing in the balance shaft fails. I say poor maintenance as it has to do with oil type, age, environment aspects. We all know not everyone keeps on top of maintenance on their vehicle the same. I stand strong on that.

Oil pressure is everything for the EA888. Running idle too long or on incorrect oil weight and age can cause additional wear.

To your point, OP did mention to weld the oil holes. Either weld or tap/plug. It would be required.

Bottom line, again, "why"?

Even guys with Boss 600 turbos aren't spinning past 6-6.5k RPM (that's if they have even upgraded their valvetrain and other components.

I don't see a need yet with any build on this engine to do it. Hence my above questions.



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[SNice]

Completely agree with the above that the balance shaft failures are a result of oil starvation or oil pump/pressure issues. These are all caused by something”upstream” - not the actual balance shaft itself. I took my old balance shafts apart when I replaced them. Mechanically they are very simple - not much can really go wrong with them besides being starved of oil. Not sure of the extent of damage that can occur if they do seize.

So maintenance (imho) is the key to healthy balance shafts.

Another thing I just thought of - the intake balance shaft drives the water pump. Re-engineering the drive mechanism would most likely be more trouble than it’s worth and the result would probably be less reliable than the original balance shaft.


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[MongoMcG]

Thanks gents. Saved me a ton of research. Yeah, this wild idea came from the ea113 via a forum discussion, and I wondered if gen 2 motors have ever tried it. I will not, but I will likely replace the balance shafts (137K miles). Audi genuine are $525, and OEM are $465 rn, which is cheap insurance in the grand scheme.

I could get the block and head to the machine shop quicker if I'd just stop looking for cool/dumb ideas. FOMO, or fear of missing out - if you know what that is, you know it can be a bad thing.

I wrench a lot, but I am a film director, not an automotive engineer, so I'm grateful for all the motorheads and enthusiasts on this forum.

Allowencer, I have not yet chosen a big turbo. I'll build everything up and run on the WPT tuned hybrid K04 (1070x) that I installed during phase 1 until I sock away some cash for phase 3 - big turbo (next spring?). I'm in phase 2 now - engine internals, valvetrain, clutch, suspension and big brakes. As to why I want to turn 7500 RPMs? Honestly, mainly just so I can say I can, and I've never turned 8K rpms but would like to once before I die. But also, when the clock is ticking and I feel like I'm approaching a personal best time, the adrenaline starts pumping and my shifts happen later. It's nice to know I have some head room before the motor blows up.

I've not autocrossed the B8 yet. It's gotta be better than the 440bhp V6 '95 Mustang that I built - pro charger, cam, LS3 springs, intake, ported and polished, forged internals, headers, off-road x-pipe, Mac center dumps (loud!), and coil overs. Torque-y as [bad word] with the tweaked-up AODE automatic trans. That car is stripped down and on my rotisserie right now for an underbody restoration - waiting for me to finish the B8.

[Theiceman]

just so you know . it's not a gen 2 engine of the ea113 it's a completely different engine from a ea113.

gen 1 ea888 were used in vw cars .
gen 2 is in our cars

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[fastboatster]

isn't water pump powered from one of the balance shafts? yet another reason why this is not possible.

[Theiceman]

isn't water pump powered from one of the balance shafts? yet another reason why this is not possible.

yes exactly

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[Allowencer]

Go get a bike or rotary engine if you want to spin something past 8k lol. Not this engine.

Just cause you want to, doesn't mean its good to or worth it. Power starts to fall at that high RPM end. The engine is too small.

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[Allowencer]

Also, I think it's a fantastic idea to get the latest revision of the balance shafts. I did exactly this on my latest build and I found nothing wrong with my old balance shafts. Bearings were still perfect.

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