MMI Oil Level Indicator

[DeeInSeatown]

I've been trying to figure out for years how much oil the engine is "down" when the MMI reads empty and gives the add oil warning? I'm guessing it's a quart but haven't been able to fully suss that out.

Is that right? When the MMI says empty, does it take a quart to top it back up to full?

[Ringsby4]

I've been trying to figure out for years how much oil the engine is "down" when the MMI reads empty and gives the add oil warning? I'm guessing it's a quart but haven't been able to fully suss that out.

Is that right? When the MMI says empty, does it take a quart to top it back up to full?

Okay,this is a curly one.I've previously owned a B7 and presently Heidi,a B8.5 and just now another new B8.5 in the fold (our sons with a gen 3 engine ) and I can say that it's probably about a litre ( approx a quart ) to fill it up when the MMI screen reads near low.I don't know about the warning though,I've never heard it.I only know that it is about a litre as I have tested the MMI reading when filling on our previous cars.
The B7 and Heidi both use NO oil between services but the new whip apparently uses oil ( Gen 3 2.0lt ) When we got it home a few days ago,it was down 40% after being serviced at a premium indy about 4000 kms ago.Added 500ml and it's now showing full on MMI.You've gotta presume they topped it completely at that last service.
I have a dipstick that I used on the B7 and our B8 gen 2 but the new gen 3 in the stable must have a different sump depth as when it is down the %tage it was it seems to read much lower on the dipstick than our other two cars ,hope that makes sense.I'll have a yardstick when I do the first oil service on it and measure what comes out relative to the reading.
Damn,I'm old school ( and old, Damn again haha ! ) I like a dipstick-it's a no fail reading !
Interesting topic because my son better be aware of all this !

[Smac770]

The display is not a direct match to one quart down, depending on the current display calibration. The yellow warning symbol coming on is the sign to add a quart. On mine, the bar is empty without the warning coming on. But if the display is way down, and staying way down, sometimes it can drop out and come back a day later, then go ahead and add a half quart. See where it goes. It's not like you only get one chance to add oil and you have to guess the exact amount blindly.

The T40178 values for the Gen3 are different from the Gen2. There are no T40178 values for the EA113 since that was before the new maintenance scheme.

[Theiceman]

yeah no bar on MMI does not mean " empty" just means you are just a full quart low give or take a little.
As smac point out , the yellow warning light is danger.

As on all cars, believe the light not the gauge...

But in this case the gauge is telling you you are not full.

[captain_video]

I don't understand why Audi has to add all of these unnecessary gimmicks for simple things. Having to use the MMI to check your oil is ridiculous and a royal PITA. I bought a dipstick on ebay for my engine and had to trim the ring so it wouldn't interfere with the hood, but it does the job and makes it so much easier to check the oil level when doing oil changes.

I have the Alpine X701D-A4 head unit in my 2014 A4 and it interfaces with the CAN bus so it provides the same monitoring functions as the stock MMI. I mainly use it to reset the TPMS when refilling my tires with air and occasionally I will just double-check the oil level after an oil change to make sure it lines up with the dipstick.

[RockJGC]

I don't understand why Audi has to add all of these unnecessary gimmicks for simple things. Having to use the MMI to check your oil is ridiculous and a royal PITA. I bought a dipstick on ebay for my engine and had to trim the ring so it wouldn't interfere with the hood, but it does the job and makes it so much easier to check the oil level when doing oil changes.

I have the Alpine X701D-A4 head unit in my 2014 A4 and it interfaces with the CAN bus so it provides the same monitoring functions as the stock MMI. I mainly use it to reset the TPMS when refilling my tires with air and occasionally I will just double-check the oil level after an oil change to make sure it lines up with the dipstick.

It's not just Audi...lots of cars no longer come with dipsticks to check oil levels. Just be thankful that you even have a dipstick tube to be able to purchase your own dipstick. Some cars don't even come with that.

But that said, I've found the digital readout to be very accurate. While changing my oil, I intentionally started the car after adding exactly four quarts and then I added that last quart by 1/4 of a quart at a time as I checked the MMI readout and it was spot on each time I added that small amount of oil. I still purchased a dipstick though because I like to check my oil level in my garage at home without needing to start the car.

[AudiTLC]

I bought a dipstick years ago. When I went to the dealer, this was my conversation:
me- "I want to buy a dipstick"
dealer-"You don't need one. MMI shows oil level"
me-"but it's frustrating changing oil, the MMI doesn't show level right away. Rather just have a dipstick"
dealer-"that's true..." (getting me the dipstick)
me-"what do you guys do when changing oil here?"
dealer-"we have a special dipstick."
me- .......

[Smac770]

To be more correct, the T40178 is a display calibration tool, not a dipstick. :-)

Having a real time oil level display always present is a perfectly fine advancement, a step forward over never knowing what your oil level is unless you're under the hood. And you can force a static oil level reading from the display, but not while the hood is open, and not accurately if the oil is not up to temp. The problem was not Audi making a better process for the owner, it was the cost cutting that eliminated the dipstick which is still the old reliable for engine work scenarios and a counter test to sanity check the display. But it's not like we're without options; for those that do care, they can get a knock off T40178 for less than an ECS dipstick.

[Ringsby4]

I just use a B7 dipstick.Works for all of the 3 generation 2.0lt engines but needs calibrating as full will show differently for each gen.Not hard.

[DrGER]

I got our AST T40178 clone way back when got our '09 A4Q 8+ years ago. It stays in our garage & the OE 06J-115-611-L stays in the trunk/boot (old windshield wiper plastic tube packaging stores both tools well). Reference: https://jmcautomotiveequipment.com/s...-oil-dipstick/ --g

[silver_tt]

Nothing wrong with electronic oil measurement and it has been used long before this car. My 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo even has electronic oil measurement, works awesome. No idea why anyone would want a dipstick....... I really don't know where the myth comes from thinking electronic oil measurement doesn't work, isn't accurate, etc

[WHT13AR]

If you buy a dipstick, dont get the ECS billet one. It doesnt read properly and just comes out covered with oil. No indication of level. Find a standard type the correct length for your engine.

So, I bought the multi measure stick where you set the length by the number at the top. Its a standard type, flat stock with graduations, and reads perfectly. One day I'll figure out which one is correct for my car, a standard type, and toss the ECS POS in the 'lesson learned' drawer.

[RockJGC]

If you buy a dipstick, dont get the ECS billet one. It doesnt read properly and just comes out covered with oil. No indication of level. Find a standard type the correct length for your engine.

So, I bought the multi measure stick where you set the length by the number at the top. Its a standard type, flat stock with graduations, and reads perfectly. One day I'll figure out which one is correct for my car, a standard type, and toss the ECS POS in the 'lesson learned' drawer.

I have this one, which is an ECS billet flat top. Works perfectly and no issues whatsoever. I've had it for 7 years now. The flat top is great because it doesn't dig into the hood insulation.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...SABEgJU2_D_BwE

[WHT13AR]

Yup, thats the one I dont like. The billet blob on the measuring end is always just completely covered with oil, giving me no indication of a level. I think it just scrapes all the oil from the tube on the way out and ends up covered. Its useless. And yes, I've checked it hot, cold, luke...every way I could to try and get a good reading. No dice.

When I compare it to the other one I have, the level should be in the top 3/4 of the flat part of the blob when full. So I think I have the correct length it just doesnt perform properly.

[RockJGC]

Yup, thats the one I dont like. The billet blob on the measuring end is always just completely covered with oil, giving me no indication of a level. I think it just scrapes all the oil from the tube on the way out and ends up covered. Its useless. And yes, I've checked it hot, cold, luke...every way I could to try and get a good reading. No dice.

When I compare it to the other one I have, the level should be in the top 3/4 of the flat part of the blob when full. So I think I have the correct length it just doesnt perform properly.

I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but I have none of those issues. Mine works perfectly and I get an accurate reading every time.

[WHT13AR]

I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but I have none of those issues. Mine works perfectly and I get an accurate reading every time.

How many ways are there to pull a stick out of a tube? hahaha When I pull the test stick out, it works fine.

[DeeInSeatown]

Good information. Trying to get a better handle on this as it seems in the last month my car's oil consumption went up quite a bit.

I've found that when I get the yellow dash light MMI oil level is at the line on the bottom of the "e-gauge." I've tried a few times to add a set amount of oil and see how much the reading goes up. Just such a slow process between add oil, "the car needs to be hot and sit for 2 minutes," add oil, and repeat. My patience has worn out by the time I get info that seems useful. And then I have to wait several weeks/months to top up again, by which time I've completely forgotten where the oil was last time and how much my last top up raised the level. Not wanting to overfill the engine, I usually just add 0.5 qt at a time.

Boiling it all down - yellow light on the dash display, add a quart, and that add a quart message may or may not correspond to bottom line on the MMI, depending on calibration. In my case, it appears that bottom line is down a quart.

[silver_tt]

Bottom to top of the electronic oil measurement is a quart or close enough.

This engine only holds 5 quarts so I would not run my engine down at 4 quarts personally, waiting until you are getting any kind of warning is way too low. One key thing that oil is tasked with is heat transfer and having a higher volume of oil will help in this regard. This is the reason on track cars people add deep sumps -- so the engine holds more oil volume.

My engine burns some oil at 125K miles but not that much. I just check the gauge periodically and when it gets down a couple bars I just add oil. If you do this as soon as you get home from a drive with the engine at operating temperature it shows you in realtime the bar moving up. You can keep adding a little at the end until it gets exactly to MAX. Even running slightly over max is nothing to worry about. A few months ago someone sent me a PM and said they overfilled their engine by .1 or .2 quarts past max should they be worried. Answer is no.... I wouldn't overfill it a quart or something but a tiny bit more is inconsequential

[Smac770]

You won't get a dynamic measurement until at least 50km has been driven since the hood has been closed, longer if driving tends to be short runs or "spirited" runs.

You can always force a static measurement, but the oil must be at least 40°C temp. Engine off, turn on ignition, check oil level, wait usually 30 second at most for me. Won't get a reading until at least 60 seconds since engine off.

[silver_tt]

Yes, very similar to what SMac is saying I will just force a reading periodically after I got home from a long drive. In the garage, shut off the engine, engage the ignition, and go to oil measurement, pop the hood. It will come up in the MMI and also in the instrument cluster in real-time forcing a new reading -- for example I have done this and it was on MAX but when I forced the reading it jumped down 1 bar. Then as I add oil I can see it go back up until it hits MAX.

I have a 2014 also, 125K miles, some oil consumption with these rings is nothing to be concerned with due to their design so long as the oil consumption is not accelerating. Shorter OCIs will help since soot is a major contributor to this problem.

[DeeInSeatown]

Yes, very similar to what SMac is saying I will just force a reading periodically after I got home from a long drive. In the garage, shut off the engine, engage the ignition, and go to oil measurement, pop the hood. It will come up in the MMI and also in the instrument cluster in real-time forcing a new reading -- for example I have done this and it was on MAX but when I forced the reading it jumped down 1 bar. Then as I add oil I can see it go back up until it hits MAX.

I have a 2014 also, 125K miles, some oil consumption with these rings is nothing to be concerned with due to their design so long as the oil consumption is not accelerating. Shorter OCIs will help since soot is a major contributor to this problem.

Didn't realize I could get a real time measurement of the oil level. Thanks, that's good to know.

When I got the car at 50k or so, it didn't use much oil, maybe down half way between changes if at all. We don't drive much, and usually short in-city drives so typically an oil change every yr/5k miles. About 10-15k miles back it started using oil and rate of consumption is increasing. So now I order 3 to 4 extra liters with the oil change kit, and going through all of it between changes.

I just did an oil change and in the month prior it used oil much quicker. 1/2 liter in about a week or two. We haven't been tracking miles between top ups so don't have very exact measurements, but more oil consumption than the seem normal. Car has just about 93k miles now.

[silver_tt]

It's almost never the PCV but if yours is original I would replace it.

One way to track oil consumption is I write down how much I drained out (I bought a great extractor that Smac was kind enough to tell me about and it has the measurement markings right on the side) and then how much I put in. So I always know exactly how much each time and I write it down on a list with all my oil changes, mileage, date, notes.

Another thing I do is when I change the oil I reset the trip counter which goes to 2,000 miles before it resets back to 0. I can always look at this to see how much mileage I have done since my last oil change and then if my spare oil quart is open I just mark where it was at the OCI so I can tell how much I currently used vs what the mileage is showing. It is nothing to obsess over but this can give you an idea if the consumption is accelerating and if so how fast.

[RockJGC]

How many ways are there to pull a stick out of a tube? hahaha When I pull the test stick out, it works fine.

Pulling the stick out isn't the problem. Knowing how to read the level is your issue. Like all dipsticks, the easiest way to see the oil level is to move either your head or the dipstick around so that you can clearly see where the stick is wet and where it's dry. That's your oil level. Unless of course you have really dirty oil and then it's much easier to see on the dipstick. That's probably why Audi eliminated dipsticks...they think either Audi owners don't know how to read them or have no interest in manually checking oil levels.

Anyway, tell me if you can find the oil level on my ECS billet dipstick. It's not easy to get a good picture, but you can clearly see in this picture where the metal is wet with oil and where it's dry.I even added a red line for you just in case you can't find it.

20240106_150751~2.jpgimage11.jpg

[AudiTLC]

You won't get a dynamic measurement until at least 50km has been driven since the hood has been closed, longer if driving tends to be short runs or "spirited" runs.

You can always force a static measurement, but the oil must be at least 40°C temp. Engine off, turn on ignition, check oil level, wait usually 30 second at most for me. Won't get a reading until at least 60 seconds since engine off.

Thank you.
That's why I use a dipstick. That's why the dealership service uses a dipstick.

[Ringsby4]

Didn't realize I could get a real time measurement of the oil level. Thanks, that's good to know.

When I got the car at 50k or so, it didn't use much oil, maybe down half way between changes if at all. We don't drive much, and usually short in-city drives so typically an oil change every yr/5k miles. About 10-15k miles back it started using oil and rate of consumption is increasing. So now I order 3 to 4 extra liters with the oil change kit, and going through all of it between changes.

I just did an oil change and in the month prior it used oil much quicker. 1/2 liter in about a week or two. We haven't been tracking miles between top ups so don't have very exact measurements, but more oil consumption than the seem normal. Car has just about 93k miles now.

As silver_tt said pcv causing oil consumption is unusual but I fitted a brand new one that did exactly that and about the amount you describe.I'm pretty convinced it's a defective pcv/combination valve,buried inside ,in my case.Yours could have become displaced.You will see it link on old guy's post #3 :

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...light=Ringsby4

[silver_tt]

Thank you.
That's why I use a dipstick. That's why the dealership service uses a dipstick.

People can do it whatever way they want, but your oil is pretty much always at 40° C or above (if it's not you will have much bigger problems like moisture in your oil which forms acids, very bad).

[AudiTLC]

People can do it whatever way they want, but your oil is pretty much always at 40° C or above (if it's not you will have much bigger problems like moisture in your oil which forms acids, very bad).

You heat up your oil to 40c when you change it?

[silver_tt]

Absolutely. I change my oil after I have driven the car so, yes, it's always above 40° C when I change it for sure.

[AudiTLC]

Absolutely. I change my oil after I have driven the car so, yes, it's always above 40° C when I change it for sure.

You pour NEW oil in at 40c?
That's the entire point of the dipstick and why service dept's use them and not the MMI

[silver_tt]

Why would I want to put NEW oil in at 40° C? I drain the oil and I know exactly how much comes out (you will never get all of the oil out of any engine). Then I put in exactly as much as came out. I don't even need the MMI for that...... no need to overthink this.

[Smac770]

Dealership is just going to run the extractor until nothing more comes out, put in 4.6L (how much came out is irrelevant to how much goes in), close it up. I never use a dipstick for an oil change, dealership won't either.

[AudiTLC]

Dealer service has an adjustable dipstick to cover different motors.
Mercedes is the same. My friend is a master tech at a Mercedes dealership.

[silver_tt]

LOL master techs don’t do oil changes just for starters…..

[A4Qwattro]

LOL master techs don’t do oil changes just for starters…..

They don't have to "do" them but they will be familiar with the company procedure. Usually the dealer has oil change jockeys for lack of a better word.

[Smac770]

Dealer service has an adjustable dipstick to cover different motors.
Mercedes is the same. My friend is a master tech at a Mercedes dealership.

Yes, the T40178. And it's effective as an adjustable dipstick, though that's not it's formal purpose. I never call it a dipstick because most people seem to think that term implies something you can leave in the engine. You can't leave a T40178 in the engine; it doesn't seal the dipstick tube.

The dipstick to get for our Gen2 engines if one needs one would be the 06J 115 611 E (now L), which is what I have. Wow, only $12 currently, https://www.urotuning.com/products/o...=8392225914935 The problem is the stick is for the transverse layout, so you have to cut down the handle if you want to leave it in the engine in the longitudinal layout or risk breaking the dipstick tube. I don't leave it in the engine anyway; sits in the garage. The ECS stick circumvents this, but I've seen more than one thread of "quality control" failure regarding the product delivered. As long as it measures out correctly, it's fine.

Audi oil dipstick marks.png

[silver_tt]

They don't have to "do" them but they will be familiar with the company procedure. Usually the dealer has oil change jockeys for lack of a better word.

T40178 is referred to as a "Oil Level Display Tester" and is discussed in the section directly after checking the oil level with the MMI (using that terminology loosely). It also provides the adjustment value settings for each engine type. If you go into erWin you will see there is no mention of using a dipstick when changing the oil. This tool is not intended to be used when doing oil changes. You can use a dipstick if you want but there is a lot of confusion on this topic. To SMac's last post, I have seen people getting vacuum leaks because of this.

[RockJGC]

LOL master techs don’t do oil changes just for starters…..

You'd be surprised. I used to be an ASE Master Tech at a dealership and we had to do oil changes fairly often. And on weekends, we did them frequently because everyone comes in on the weekend for oil changes.

And yes, I always used a dipstick to check the oil level. Extracting oil isn't an exact science and nobody takes the time to measure the oil removed. And if you do, there's no way to know how much oil was in the engine in the first place, unless of course you used a dipstick to check ahead of time, but that brings us back full circle again to using a dipstick.

[silver_tt]

The extractor tells you exactly how much oil was removed. The "MMI" tells me the starting level.

My 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo has the exact same electronic oil measurement and the car is 12 years older. You don't use a dipstick and it wouldn't even be possible to use one because it doesn't have the same dipstick tube this engine does. This is something people never even talk about and the dealer doesn't use one.

You can use one if you want but you are overthinking this.........

[RockJGC]

The extractor tells you exactly how much oil was removed. The "MMI" tells me the starting level.

My 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo has the exact same electronic oil measurement and the car is 12 years older. You don't use a dipstick and it wouldn't even be possible to use one because it doesn't have the same dipstick tube this engine does. This is something people never even talk about and the dealer doesn't use one.

You can use one if you want but you are overthinking this.........

I'm telling you what happens at a dealership, not at home. As someone who worked at a dealership, I'm talking from experience. I don't usually like to tell people here that I used to work on cars professionally because there are a lot of "online" mechanics out there who know everything, but I'll tell you this---at a dealership that uses extractors, it's not the plastic vacuum unit you use at home. Typically, it's just a suction hose that goes to a collection tank in the back. It's not measuring the oil removed from the engine. Dealership service departments are about getting everything done quickly. Suck the oil out (or drain it) and fill it up again. That requires using a dipstick to measure the oil put back in, even if you measure the oil that you pour in. Audi put a dipstick tube on these cars specifically for technicians doing maintenance. Nobody wants to return a car to a customer without the proper oil level and using a dipstick is the faster way to get the job done properly on this engine.

[RockJGC]

They don't have to "do" them but they will be familiar with the company procedure. Usually the dealer has oil change jockeys for lack of a better word.

Lube & Oil Techs. That's usually what they are called. I'd estimate that Lube & Oil Techs do 50% of oil changes at dealerships. The rest are done by higher level mechanics, even Master Techs. Reason being is simple--- Lube & Oil techs do other stuff as well. They spend time on the tire and balancing machines a lot too. And another thing to consider is that Lube & Oil Techs only get cars that are in JUST for oil changes. If a car is in for an oil change and other work, then the higher level technician gets the job and ends up doing the entire job himself, inlcuding the oil change.