The APR Stage 3 DTR8868 Turbocharger System is Here

[Gunnarrrrr]

what’s up with the ethanol torque numbers being less than most stage 2 tunes


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[brilliant_black]

what’s up with the ethanol torque numbers being less than most stage 2 tunes


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622 torque on e85 seems fine and in line with stage 2 tunes. You get the big Horsepower bump that the stock turbo couldn’t handle.


Probably that way so they don’t blow shit up.

700+ torque sounds great, but we all know Audi isn’t over engineering anything. I honestly doesn’t believe these motors can take 700+ torque for long.


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[ontunerow]

622 torque on e85 seems fine and in line with stage 2 tunes. You get the big Horsepower bump that the stock turbo couldn’t handle.


Probably that way so they don’t blow shit up.

700+ torque sounds great, but we all know Audi isn’t over engineering anything. I honestly doesn’t believe these motors can take 700+ torque for long.


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How can you talk about Audi not over engineering anything and say 622 torque is fine, when it comes with 369 stock lol.

[Arin@APR]

what’s up with the ethanol torque numbers being less than most stage 2 tunes

We targeted the same limit we did on the stock turbo. It’s pretty reasonable, and reliable.


Keep in mind peak torque figures are just a momentary number that doesn’t mean much on its own. Unlike the stock turbo, we can hold the torque longer so it doesn’t die off as quickly. Basically a fatter powerband that works well when shifting at 7,000 rpm compared to say 5,500 rpm with the stock turbo.

[handspin]

oh thanks, that apr turbo is twin scroll then and also the tte and pure turbos

just thought since the b/s58s were twin and stage 3 goes single turbo that the b9s4 turbo would also move from twin to single scroll

then there should be little turbo lag upgrading turbos

[Arin@APR]

More customer results:

https://www.instagram.com/aprllc/?img_index=1

[email protected] MPH

Setup:

S5 Sportback
ECU/TCU (STG 3 E85)
DTR8868
Intake
Intercooler
20 inch wheels
Street tires (275/30/20 Toyo Proxes Sport)
Full weight
1,700 DA

[Turbos_4]

Apr big Turbo installed tomorrow!

[Turbos_4]

Did you install the turbo yet?

[AldermanToffee]

Did you install the turbo yet?

Did you just ask yourself if you had installed your turbo yet lol?

[Turbos_4]

No, I was asking someone else, but it posted on the thread. I'm new!

[AldermanToffee]

No, I was asking someone else, but it posted on the thread. I'm new!

Ah hahaha I see

[slws4]

Did you just ask yourself if you had installed your turbo yet lol?

LMAOOOO

No, I was asking someone else, but it posted on the thread. I'm new!

You were asking who? Because this looks sus. New or not, there was no one to reply to, other than the post directly above which is yours.

[handspin]

srsly though, where's the guy w/ the new APR turbo? that's what we're really on about

this new APR piece really is the closest to slap on a bigger turbo / tune and go (maybe hpfp too)

[oesman]

this new APR piece really is the closest to slap on a bigger turbo / tune and go

How so? All the other common turbo swaps are the same sort of thing as far as ease of slapping it on. What's different from this and say a TTE710 from that perspective? The only real difference is APR offers tunes without HPFP for the larger turbo. I guess there must be a market for that, but not sure why since the HPFP supports a huge boost in power and is an easy component to swap.

[slec]

I look at it as an option that doesn’t require taking off the cat, upgrading injectors, etc.. I’m not in this for draggy times so the ability to add this much power with just a turbo being swapped is enticing. Of course it leaves power on the table but it costs way less than a full stage 3 setup.

I’m looking to go Stage 1 and this made me pause a bit as if i want more, it looks to be an easier path without pushing the limits. I plan on sticking with pump gas (93) no matter what for the same reason. Everyone has a different use-case.

By the way, love your channel, thanks for all you do.

[AldermanToffee]

I look at it as an option that doesn’t require taking off the cat, upgrading injectors, etc.. I’m not in this for draggy times so the ability to add this much power with just a turbo being swapped is enticing. Of course it leaves power on the table but it costs way less than a full stage 3 setup.

I’m looking to go Stage 1 and this made me pause a bit as if i want more, it looks to be an easier path without pushing the limits. I plan on sticking with pump gas (93) no matter what for the same reason. Everyone has a different use-case.

By the way, love your channel, thanks for all you do.

Quite literally not any different to the TS1, TS2, TTE5XX, TTE710, or Pure700.

You can easily slap one of them on and run it with just an intercooler and intake. It just so happens that there's additional, higher power configurations also available with those turbos.

[slec]

Quite literally not any different to the TS1, TS2, TTE5XX, TTE710, or Pure700.

You can easily slap one of them on and run it with just an intercooler and intake. It just so happens that there's additional, higher power configurations also available with those turbos.

Right but don’t you need a tune to tell the ECU you have a bigger turbo, but nothing else in order to get those “between stage 1 and full boat stage 3” gains? Or am I mistaken on that front

[oesman]

By the way, love your channel, thanks for all you do.

Thank you!

To elaborate a bit on AldermanToffee's reply, the difference from an implementation perspective is essentially all in the software. That's what I was trying to get at before. If APR wanted to do this same thing with a TTE710 they could have.

Right but don’t you need a tune to tell the ECU you have a bigger turbo, but nothing else in order to get those “between stage 1 and full boat stage 3” gains? Or am I mistaken on that front

Yep, hence it being a software limitation. Basically the other companies just aren't putting out tunes for big turbos to make smaller numbers. You do need an intercooler and intake to hit APR's advertised numbers "between stage 1 and full boat stage 3". I would not run a bigger turbo on a stock intercooler, it struggles on the stock turbo.

I’m not in this for draggy times so the ability to add this much power with just a turbo being swapped is enticing.

I get what you're saying and clearly this may be perfect for your needs since other tuning houses don't offer lower output packages. Just personally I have a harder time not wanting more, lets say you went with all APR stuff:

Stock:
369hp / 394lb-ft on 93 AKI

Stage 1:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
------------------
$1,350 for 428hp / 567lb-ft on 93 AKI or $22.88/hp gained from stock.

Stage 3:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
APR Intercooler: $1,200
APR Intake: $1,200
APR Turbo: $2,996
------------------
$6,746 for 548hp / 561lb-ft on 93 AKI or $37.69/hp gained from stock.

Stage 3 w/ HPFP:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
APR Intercooler: $1,200
APR Intake: $1,200
APR Turbo: $2,996
APR HPFP Rebuild: $550
Fuel-It Analyzer: $210
ACDelco 13577429 Sensor: $71
------------------
$7,577 for 620hp / 622lb-ft on E85 or $30.19/hp gained from stock.

Just seems like for $831 you get a lot more power if you wanna stay with all APR, which is the config they based their numbers on reading their site. I added the fuel-it and acdelco sensor for extra safety on the E85 content.

[S4James]

Thank you!

To elaborate a bit on AldermanToffee's reply, the difference from an implementation perspective is essentially all in the software. That's what I was trying to get at before. If APR wanted to do this same thing with a TTE710 they could have.



I get what you're saying and clearly this may be perfect for your needs since other tuning houses don't offer lower output packages. Just personally I have a harder time not wanting more, lets say you went with all APR stuff:

Stock:
369hp / 394lb-ft on 93 AKI

Stage 1:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
------------------
$1,350 for 428hp / 567lb-ft on 93 AKI or $22.88/hp

Stage 3:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
APR Intercooler: $1,200
APR Intake: $1,200
APR Turbo: $2,996
------------------
$6,746 for 548hp / 561lb-ft on 93 AKI or $37.69/hp

Stage 3 w/ HPFP:
APR ECU: $810
APR TCU: $540
APR Intercooler: $1,200
APR Intake: $1,200
APR Turbo: $2,996
APR HPFP Rebuild: $550
Fuel-It Analyzer: $210
ACDelco 13577429 Sensor: $71
------------------
$7,577 for 620hp / 622lb-ft on E85 or $30.19/hp

Just seems like for $831 you get a lot more power if you wanna stay with all APR, which is the config they based their numbers on reading their site. I added the fuel-it and acdelco sensor for extra safety on the E85 content.

of course you can use cheaper intercoolers and intakes and get the same results. My CTS will be in tommorow, and im planning to use my IE intake/tip

[oesman]

of course you can use cheaper intercoolers and intakes and get the same results. My CTS will be in tommorow, and im planning to use my IE intake/tip

Right you can use non-APR parts, but APR based their resulting numbers on their parts so I went with those for comparison sake.

[Hostile]

In my eyes, the only reason to go with this APR turbo is you can keep your stock downpipe.

[oesman]

In my eyes, the only reason to go with this APR turbo is you can keep your stock downpipe.

I mean the price point is attractive especially for existing APR tune users if they're happy with the tune. Also their dealer network for the non-DIYer existing users.

[DC3P0]

I mean the price point is attractive especially for existing APR tune users if they're happy with the tune. Also their dealer network for the non-DIYer existing users.

I think they just announced remote flashing today too. Not sure which applications are covered but it's another in between option for people who aren't near a dealer or maybe aren't comfortable pushing the "flash it" button themselves lol

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[S4James]

In my eyes, the only reason to go with this APR turbo is you can keep your stock downpipe.

Im pushing 50. And spent the last 17 years with an obnoxious smelly 700hp B5. Trust me, its a selling point. Plus lots of other custom shops are finding that the stock downpipe supports a ton of power... Its just not like the old days where they were a major restriction.

[Hostile]

Im pushing 50. And spent the last 17 years with an obnoxious smelly 700hp B5. Trust me, its a selling point. Plus lots of other custom shops are finding that the stock downpipe supports a ton of power... Its just not like the old days where they were a major restriction.

You say that as if I was suggesting it was a negative.

[S4James]

You say that as if I was suggesting it was a negative.

Not my intention. However I wanted to express that this is not a small advantage. For some like me, its a big selling point.

[handspin]

this leads to the suggestion that custom tuning like DS1 would make everything plug and play / bespoke

instant flexibility in sourcing parts to target a certain build. you could start with a turbo swap then and add on until happy

whereas before the tunes were pushing the envelope and going past even b9rs5 2.9T levels, other users are looking to oem++

//

034 still pushes the limits but maintaining safety, but maybe apr sees the gap in the middle and is offering to fill for a mid-range RS style tune

034 would instead offer built motor style components, rods toward the end goal of a pricier stage 4 maybe, where fewer customers might reside

maybe 034 could cannibalize some sales and offer different rated tunes to get to say, 500 wheel hp / tq with the minimum amount of parts / effort

//

or an RS?! but BMWs beat that: S63 > S58 >> EA839 2.9T>B58TU O1>B58TU M1>EA839 3.0T (https://inf.news/en/auto/d53b0b56616...a561e32e8.html)

honestly though, some just want carb compliant / emissions passable and reliable setups that push that front enough to achieve reasonable gains at a decent price point

[oesman]

custom tuning like DS1 would make everything plug and play / bespoke

Yep, and that is a huge benefit to custom tuning. Though plug & play implies no configuration so bespoke is the correct term. What we have today is plug & play with OTS tunes. The downside is like anything bespoke; There are masters out there that can build or tune anything, but also lots of hacks. Unfortunately many indie shops are more interested in their own love of motorsports than in running a successful business. It is much easier to install exhausts, intake kits, and minor bolt-ons to fund your own projects than sweat over bespoke builds. It's a real issue and how people wind up with very custom/bespoke builds stuck in shops for years.

I have one friend with a nearly six figure (paid in labor/parts so far) buggy build that has never rolled out of the shop since 2016. This is a major shop and the owner of the shop is constantly saying he's "working on it, it's complicated, still needs a tune, will get back to it any day now" and my friend doesn't know who else to take something this bespoke to. That guy built and welded that buggy from scratch basically with components from a jeep to make it look sort of like a jeep. I drove past that shop and the owner is never going to actually work on it, it's been moved into a Conex for storage sometime this year. Another friend bought a SEMA build that had a leaky hydraulic steering rack, hasn't been fixed at a different major shop in nearly 10 months... same story. Yea I get it SEMA builds are complicated, but when we swung by the car hadn't even moved from where it was last parked a few months ago. Honestly pep boys would have figured that leak out by now, it's a freaking hydraulic leak...

Yet the shop owners are constantly out on facebook/IG doing events, racing, building their own super complicated show/SEMA builds, etc... Hell the second shop's owner is sort of a friend and has gone to multiple events with us since taking on the job, showing off all his own projects. Personally I think my friends just aren't pushing as hard as I would, I'd be on their ass every week. But, they have busy lives and are hoping these other adults will do what they were paid to do and promised to do. Finding an indie shop where the owner wants to run a business and not get high on his own supply can be tough. Companies like APR, 034, etc.. are actual businesses.

Of course for a basic cookie cutter build it's not too hard to find a tuner.

[handspin]

ok, so bespoke / custom can become plug and play if there is demand, where most users might see benefit and become economical

daily drivers need to be street / emissions compliant so a large enough turbo compatible with OEM downpipes / cats

for example, the C7S6 to stage higher, requires some RS turbos (which are OEM), so maybe apr's turbo fits that

//

maybe there is a solution in electric turbos, which is currently costly, cutting edge but being implemented in production vehicles

turbos can be bigger, without sacrificing spool up lag and there is also better control over the turbo / wastegate functions

sorry these links are sort of a dump / topic de-rail / bookmarking but here it is:

(audi example)
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ocharger-works

(overview)
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/e-...-turbocharger/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...al-combustion/

(manufacturers)
https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/n...n-new-webinar/

https://www.garrettmotion.com/emissi...rrett-e-turbo/

https://www.borgwarner.com/technolog...g-technologies

https://torqamp.com/dyno-runs/

//

the hybrid / electrification designs seems to be disruptive and also more complex for aftermarket mod/tuners since more parts need to sync

[AldermanToffee]

You won’t ever see an electric turbocharger for this platform.

I’m pretty sure they’re also only used to assist in low-end spool, with standard mechanical turbochargers being used for the grunt of the power.. although I haven’t looked into them much.

[Gunnarrrrr]

You won’t ever see an electric turbocharger for this platform.

I’m pretty sure they’re also only used to assist in low-end spool, with standard mechanical turbochargers being used for the grunt of the power.. although I haven’t looked into them much.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14654496


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[KHP]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14654496


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That's a B7 RS4 with a ton of custom work. I believe the owner is an engineer for BorgWarner, could be wrong though. Such an awesome build!

[AldermanToffee]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14654496


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Weird looking B9 :)

[Hostile]

That's a B7 RS4 with a ton of custom work. I believe the owner is an engineer for BorgWarner, could be wrong though. Such an awesome build!

I read through some of that thread. He is and that car is pretty rad.

Either way, that thread is completely irrelevant to the post that it was meant as a reply to.

[GoCougs1234]

You won’t ever see an electric turbocharger for this platform.

I’m pretty sure they’re also only used to assist in low-end spool, with standard mechanical turbochargers being used for the grunt of the power.. although I haven’t looked into them much.

And the complexity high and advantage small since centrifugal superchargers - essentially a turbo driven by a belt rather than exhaust gas expansion (so as responsive or more so than electric motor assist) - still have lag upon throttle opening as the compression is not positive displacement (it's basically a fan unlike a roots or twin screw).

Both turbos and centrifugal superchargers came into their own in the mid 1930s in military aircraft and by the outbreak of WWII most combat aircraft were either supercharged or turbocharged (and some were both). The interesting tidbit is also by the outbreak of the war the constant speed propeller was standard so the issue of throttle lag by and large was not a concern.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I thought this thread was about the new apr turbo what’s going on


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[GoCougs1234]

I thought this thread was about the new apr turbo what’s going on


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Did you have questions?

[Arin@APR]

The APR DTR8868 now fits all model years - 2018-2024 - MG1: PPC & Tricore.

The system is currently on sale for the holidays!

www.goapr.com/t4100001

[Nzdan]

@arin
I've typically regarded stage 3 tunes as a roll of the dice as to whether a major engine failure occurs.

Given the apparent emphasis on safety, torque limitation etc, would it be reasonable to expect say 100k out of a DTR8868 equipped vehicle if the power is used regularly, or is that likely pushing the boundaries?

How many miles were done on your test rig?

[Jetta03]

Anyone have quarter mile times yet on the APR stage 3 kit?