oh well [emoji28]

[Theiceman]

I guess a few on here can relate.... . car has run flawless since 2019 when I rebuilt the engine...
updates to follow
20230819_175114.jpg

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[silver_tt]

What is the problem causing it to need to be towed? Hopefully just a dead battery

[old guy]

NOOOOO!!!

[Smac770]

The 911 did it, with the wrench, in the back garage.

[JLAllroad]

One of the few that will (more than likely)tow it home to fix it.


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[SNice]

Nooooo!!!! The suspense is too much. I hope you can get her back up and running quickly, easily, and cheaply!


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[Theiceman]

okay after a very long day yesterday . dragged myself out to the car.....

i was out of town yesterday with the car and as soon as i felt it stumble in bumper to bumper traffic i knew it was trouble , luckily i was right in front of a driveway to a facility so pulled in before it died, slipped it to neutral and rolled in..

i know its mechanically solid so i immediately thought CPS died or its fuel .

dragged VCDS out .....

Sunday,20,August,2023,13:25:11:54023
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 23.3.1.0 (x64) HEX-V2 CB: 0.4631.4
Data version: 20230421 DS346.2
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUMFCFL4EN025722 License Plate: 818ACE
Mileage: latest Repair Order:


Address 01: Engine Labels: 06H-907-115-CDN.clb
Control Module Part Number: 8K5 907 115 M HW: 8K2 907 115 L
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0005
Software Coding: 4A190013242600062000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115M 001006 (AU48)
ROD: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115M.rod
VCID: 3C21374876E6979A133-8068
4 Faults Found:

10061 - Fuel Pump
P3043 00 [096] - Mechanical Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 238399 km
Date: 2023.08.19
Time: 14:44:07

Engine RPM: 788.50 /min
Normed load value: 10.2 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 49 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.169 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Fuel pump: specified value: 29.254 %
Low fuel pressure: specified value: 404.4 kPa
Fuel temperature: 75.8 °C
Fuel pump adaptation: 0.0 kPa
High fuel pressure: specified value: 4.0000 MPa

10064 - Fuel Pump
P308D 00 [096] - RPM too Low
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 238397 km
Date: 2023.08.19
Time: 14:40:15

Engine RPM: 1449.00 /min
Normed load value: 42.4 %
Vehicle speed: 8 km/h
Coolant temperature: 96 °C
Intake air temperature: 48 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.816 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Fuel pump: specified value: 31.125 %
Low fuel pressure: specified value: 413.4 kPa
Fuel temperature: 77.3 °C
Fuel pump adaptation: 0.0 kPa
High fuel pressure: specified value: 11.4855 MPa

2838 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 00 [032] - Too Low
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 238399 km
Date: 2023.08.19
Time: 14:44:27

Engine RPM: 2430.00 /min
Normed load value: 21.2 %
Vehicle speed: 21 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 42 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.193 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3

So looks like after about 24K km fuel pump, or control module is going out. Pretty simple fix actually... by the time the tow truck got there it actually started, i was gonna try just driving it home but i had someone with me and it was highway the whole way so thought i better just put it on the flatbed.

Funny part was tow truck driver said he will drive it up on the truck and wanted me to watch the front lip .. i said are you sure ? as he got in , he said yup !i said can you drive manual .. ? he hopped out and said you drive !!! lol.

Anyway

what I found very odd is that VCDS does now show actual values it saw during the failure.. is that normal ?? it gave me specified values, but without what it saw its pretty useless.

I also monitored real time values after i started it today and there is no readout for low fuel pressure . im not sure what is normal for a 8.5 to read out .

As it is an intermittent issue obviously its gonna be a dice roller beyond visual inspection if its the pump or the control module.. any wagers ?

in thinking back it did this in the car wash the first day i bought the car in 2018 ...lol,, so that is very intermittent.




i tried to screencap but it didnt work very well.

bottom line, i monitored hp fuel and spec and both displayed and were within spec, low pressure did not show actual but only spec for low pressure.

i would expect everything within spec as car actually started.

hi pressure 4.0 Mpa spec measured in spec varying tiny amount at idle
low pressure spec 4.0 Kpa actual showed no value

other info: as you can see i was doing a whopping 8km/hr, so it was not like there was a massive demand on the fuel system.

fairly hot day ( not like Texas hot )

i primarily use this car as my winter beater so rarely sees much in summer.

guess next step is ordering parts.. looks kinda pricey for that module though ..

lucky i had CAA.. ....that i bought for my 45 year old Porsche. ..that i ended up taking my friend back to Toronto in after her day of waiting around for a tow truck and being driven back to my place in a tow truck :)

[Smac770]

CAE engines don't have the G410 pressure sensor on the low pressure line. Removed by Audi for the EA888 to cut costs. The CPM engine does have that sensor, because it has the 5th "E85 cold start" injector on the low pressure line. So there's no way for the CAE to know the low fuel pressure actual.

The recorded term 30 voltage seems really low.

B8.5, so you have that VDO 3-phase pump. Might check the pins on the flange to see if one is burned out like others have been posting recently. But could just be the pump controller.

[Theiceman]

thanks SMAC I'll have a look around ... and order rear seat clips .. when you say " flange" what do you mean ?

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[bb-tt]

yes b8.5 has low pressure side sensor. on my b8 i put a guage in line and used vcds to run pump to check pressure. Smac is talking about the pins on the control module allot of pics of burnt connectors /contacts on here.

[Smac770]

It seems like it's the pass-through pins on the pump top that I've been seeing people post of, on the underside if they remove the "internal" connection to the flange connector. Such as here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14924262

Only CPM flex fuel engines get the G410. B8.5 CAE is same as B8.0 CAE, no G410.

[19birel]

I swear the tow truck ride stings more so than the breakdown sometimes!

Glad to hear it's a simple fix! Shame when a relatively new part craps out though!

[bb-tt]

It seems like it's the pass-through pins on the pump top that I've been seeing people post of, on the underside if they remove the "internal" connection to the flange connector. Such as here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14924262

Only CPM flex fuel engines get the G410. B8.5 CAE is same as B8.0 CAE, no G410.

Oh have not seen that have seen evidence on top of the pump and on the control module connector of overheating, probably from current draw or maybe high resistance.

edit: still had an old pump in the garage so grabbed some pics



That pump was still working fine i just figured after 10 years it could use a filter change and if i was in there anyway was changing the whole pump.

[Seal1968]

Can you access the fuel pump from the rear seat compartment, or do you have to drop the tank? I thought I read somewhere that there's an access panel under the seat.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering. (wife would say yes lol)

[Smac770]

Pull the rear seat bench, cover panel is there on the right side.

[Seal1968]

Thanks SMAC...didn't think I was losing it just yet. I like to read through this stuff...just in case I have the same issue one day.

Does this mean the Targa is seeing a lot of roads this summer?

[Theiceman]

okay update ...
exactly what I expected ....nothing . everything looks clean tight and dry. so we are back to the tossup between controller and fueling module. It looks like the controller is under the body . hope to hell thats not wedged between the body and tank, but I have not looked closely yet .
should be noted that car has been driving fine since it happened, but I am going on the premise if I do nothing, I am no closer to fixing it.

Seal this just happened Saturday and I went to Collingwood yesterday in the 911 so no change in usage for either car really. only reason I took the A4 Saturday was that I felt like having AC and had to drive to Toronto so not fun in Toronto traffic in the 911. 20230822_120711.jpg

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[Smac770]

Fuel pump controller should be right there tucked under the sheet metal right next to the pump flange.

Yuck, looks like you have to take the sealing ring off to get enough room to slide it out? https://youtu.be/IeGI1-wr_0U

You can use VCDS to exercise the pump, but you'll want to take the soft line under the hood and run it into a bucket or something (the process used to do pressure the throughput testing of the in-tank pump).

[Theiceman]

Fuel pump controller should be right there tucked under the sheet metal right next to the pump flange.

Yuck, looks like you have to take the sealing ring off to get enough room to slide it out? https://youtu.be/IeGI1-wr_0U

You can use VCDS to exercise the pump, but you'll want to take the soft line under the hood and run it into a bucket or something (the process used to do pressure the throughput testing of the in-tank pump).

yeah the pump output tests worked fine I can run it as long as I want. That module definitely looks tricky to get out, but not sure what for . I'm sure it will all look great. I'm researching some parts as we speak ..

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[Seal1968]

I hear ya on AC for long trips...wife and I took the Boxster to Ottawa 2 summers ago and the AC was in need of a recharge...I was so dry when we got there I think my tongue grew 2 inches lol.