Difference between APR and DSC Sport's controller?

[dWiGhT]

So was looking at the DSC Suspension controller ($1290) for my TTRS and came across one from APR ($990) too. The APR description mentions DSC and that you can use the DSC app to tune it.

Is there any difference between the two??? (and not only $300)

IS THIS RELATED TO THE DSC CONTROLLER:
Yes! This setup is a collaboration with longtime partners at DSC. DSC worked with APR for over 3 years to build the VAG controller and software in its entirety. APR now offer the controller under our own name with the new tune...

WILL I BE ABLE TO CUSTOM TUNE:
Yes. A new application is being made for APR specific customers that’s more user friendly. The existing DSC app can be used.

DSC Sports controller, $1290
https://www.dscsport.com/product/v4-controller-audi-2/

APR Suspension control unit (SCU), $990
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/produ...i-mqb-75038955

[DrMerl]

DSC is the maker, I think you can use DSC software to adjust the APR box.

I ran DSC for a while, beware opening Pandora's Box if you like to experiment with things, lol. If you've got some shock tuning knowledge there is plenty you can adjust with the software. The addition of having the shocks individually change while corning, softening on launch, stiffen on braking is pretty cool. You can go from full porpoise Cadillac mode to rattle your molars, adjust on the fly too.

Until I learn more about what I want and how to express that in the software, I'm back on the stock controller. If you haven't already I'd suggest going after the mechanical suspension bits first. I have all the 034 suspension parts and greatly appreciated having both the FSB and RSB upgrade. I ran RSB only and different alignments for the street and found it was a little too twitchy for me at WOT in 3 digit speeds, but awesome for lower speed twisties. After adding a FSB and the Camster mounts suddenly the stock controller program seemed much better. I think these shocks and stock controller like tighter/stiffer suspension bits. Extra caster for this platform does wonders for controllability/stability on street. Extra camber beyond a degree or so seems a bit much for street, your tires will suffer 95% of time in regular driving =) If you want a stable back end at higher speeds, keep stock toe in the rear. Having the 034 RSB (set on soft), links, control arms, upper mounts makes it react quicker anyway, but nothing puckering. I'll be switching back to my DSC soon.

[McTTRS]

So was looking at the DSC Suspension controller ($1290) for my TTRS and came across one from APR ($990) too. The APR description mentions DSC and that you can use the DSC app to tune it.

Is there any difference between the two???

I have and like the DSC unit. My understanding is that the hardware is the same and that APR is simply rebranding the DSC unit so the only difference WILL BE software and right now is nothing. That said the DSC folks do have the only software right now which is fully documented via video and supported.

[dWiGhT]

I'm really not looking to tune the suspension but more to make it less of a hemorrhoid buster on the streets. My understanding is that it will make the ride more comfortable and responsive.

[McTTRS]

ride more comfortable and responsive.

This is a bit of a contradiction in terms. You might want to read my review at https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ion-Controller .

[DrMerl]

I'm really not looking to tune the suspension but more to make it less of a hemorrhoid buster on the streets. My understanding is that it will make the ride more comfortable and responsive.

Yes there is a parameter called G Comfort, you can control the window in which it operates, shocks soften. Earlier I found this was a little too low speed bouncy for me, like not enough dampening, nose was bobbing (but not in that ultra stiff way). I don't think on stock shocks you'll get ride like a car that's not sporty (modern economy boxes ride pretty well nowadays), you may have to compromise on dampening vs cushy ride. Depending the tune, you exit the G-Comf window based on how many Gs are registered (G-comf can be disabled too), then it hits the stiffer settings. It can also be speed based. You'll still have the option to use the Mode button to change to another more comfortable tune. For me the difference on the stock box from Comfort to Dynamic is enough after adding the other suspension parts. I'm down with stiffer but well dampened ride (like a Porsche). I'm using 18" 265/35s, so that took out some of the kidney rattle.

It really depends on if or how APR tuned the box and which parts they tested on. If they are using DSCs starting tunes, which are a great place to start, it might work out depending on your overall mechanical suspension, but for me I didn't quite like it with the starting settings. So began the adjusting process.

[dWiGhT]

Yeah, I realized that after rereading it.

Excellent writeup on the DSC... I like the "Preliminary Driving Observations" and feel that is what I was trying to say. ;)

I don't think I'll be messing around with any of the default settings (initially)... :)

This is a bit of a contradiction in terms. You might want to read my review at https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ion-Controller .

[dWiGhT]

...If they are using DSCs starting tunes, which are a great place to start, it might work out depending on your overall mechanical suspension, but for me I didn't quite like it with the starting settings. So began the adjusting process.

Has anyone done a writeup on how to tune the DSC or is the "Butt Dyno" really the only way to learn what works?

[kevin#34]

I was very interested in the suspensions controller, but honestly gave up after having realized its settings go far beyond my skills... I would have appreciated the chance of having fixed settings to choose from (i.e. track, sport, balanced, comfort etc)

[MESOGLEA]

The DSC comes with 3 different settings (comfort, auto and dynamic) that are selected automatically depending on drive modes.

[McTTRS]

Has anyone done a writeup on how to tune the DSC or is the "Butt Dyno" really the only way to learn what works?

Yes. There is an extensive set of videos.

[kevin#34]

interesting... you mean that when I drive on dynamic, DSC setting is in dynamic too, and the same happens when I am in Auto or comfort driving modes?

[DrMerl]

interesting... you mean that when I drive on dynamic, DSC setting is in dynamic too, and the same happens when I am in Auto or comfort driving modes?

Yes, the DSC will switch programs based on your driving selection. In the DSC you have normal, sport and track, so you retain flexibility to adjust settings as you like. As I was testing I would set sport (comfort mode) as my control, then make changes to track (dynamic) and see what happens, switching back and forth.

[kevin#34]

ok, thanks

[InfamousWater]

I just installed the APR controller to my ’19 TTRS, and mainly the issue is the heavy bouncing, which I’ve been trying to tune out. But I have a some questions:

- What are the “Audi factory” stiffness settings for comfort and dynamic? I’d like to set my APR unit as close as possible to those to start. The default settings causes a ton of bouncing on my relatively bumpy roads here, even in dynamic, whereas the stock controller never does.
- The APR program can’t connect to the unit. It can’t even read the file provided on the download page. I’ve been using DSC’s program without any issues.

About the tuning files. The first thing I did was read all values from the unit and back it up, they seem to also match the APR default file from the website. Its also identical to the DSC file someone linked in the DSC review thread here
- The marketing claims independent control of the shocks, but in all the files, all 4 corners are set to the same value at every g-force table cell. Is there a file with actual independent control?
- Most of the other tabs (acceleration, braking steering) are set to 0% for all values. In the other thread about the DSC controller I saw the OP had a screenshot where the braking table had progressively stiffer front as pressure increased. Where can I find that tuning? Or is that not the best approach anymore?

Overall I see that there’s a lot of tuning capability but I’m disappointed by the base files, which don’t seem to match up to the marketing claims.

[DrMerl]

Yep the bouncy nose. Played with that for a while, didn't get to my liking, I'm still learning about the DSC controls. I've gone back to stock box for now, was still getting the other suspension bits in order, didn't want too many variables.

AFAIK there are no "stock" Audi settings that can be applied to the DSC. It comes with a best guess, APR uses the same files I was playing with. The DSC gives you the Pandora's box of options, up to you to adjust to your liking. There's going to be a lot of adjusting, nice thing is you can do it on the fly with a passenger.

Here's a good starting point, the software controls and ideas are the same for all.
https://motoiq.com/tune-your-oem-act...-controller/7/

Independent control are the four corners of the charts, you'll see there's slightly more bias for left hand drive weight. Wouldn't mess with that chart (the initial chart you see in the software). Adjust G-Comf first, you can disable it or set it to the slightest G change, this removes some of the bad nose bob when you're just cruising with no G load. You should notice the car adjusting to cornering (like a virtual sway bar), when stopping (less nose dive) and if you want, lots of squat in the back for launches. Mike Kojima has more suspension videos about multi-way shocks, the DSC gives us like 3-4 way shock control. Low-Med-High compression/rebound values are another area to look at. I needed to learn about shock tuning to understand what the heck I was doing. Another approach is using min/max values, one setting a time so you can feel what it's actually doing, dial more or less from there, then to the next area. You can make the shocks Cadillac floaty to kidney punch ride. Avoid messing with the brake table at first, it's noticeable already, don't want to unload the rear too much, unless that's what you're looking for.

The stock controller responds nicely when other bits are installed (springs, sway, camber, caster, unsprung weight). There's still that hop you get at speed over bumps, gotta hold your drink, but no front end squishy bounce.

[InfamousWater]

I ended up retuning my controller. Perhaps it was developed and tested in an area with perfect roads, but the base tune bouncing so much on bumps is not acceptable for the $1000+ price tag. I tried tuning and turning off gcomfort but I could not easily find any settings that were are good as stock controller for my purposes (mostly daily driving and long trips).

[DrMerl]

It's more of a tool for track and those that have the time and expertise to take advantage of it. I had to cry uncle, I was over my head in both time and knowledge, but it scratches my car nerd itch. While it's plug and play to function, it's not plug and play with programming, that's just a start.

[car.done]

Any issues with both or either bricking when car battery is dead (drops below 10V)?

Someone on messenger mentioning this happening multiple times and someone else confirmed it.

[fluevog]

Any issues with both or either bricking when car battery is dead (drops below 10V)?

Someone on messenger mentioning this happening multiple times and someone else confirmed it.

Funny you mention this. I've been through 2 APR units in a just over a year. First went while the car was begin serviced. (unsure if the tech disconnected the battery). The second went after I changed the battery. So there maybe a correlation with low or no voltage with these APR failures. Unsure if DSC units have the same issue.

[car.done]

When it goes out, are you able to limp home with crappy shocks to swap in OE controller? Or are you kind of stuck because can’t risk shocks?

[MESOGLEA]

From what I understand, the current is off so the shocks become minimally valved based on the physical size of the orifices.

This unit was tested and tuned on an RS3, may be the reason it oscillates. I have 45 profiles on my computer trying to remedy it.
I notice that higher current (start with + 75-100mA) in the front reduces the oscillation. I then decreased front rebound on the velocity tab; low -5, med -5, high -5. I still have more testing.
You can also set the unit to use to G table/valving only by setting the G Rate Max to zero.

[fluevog]

When it goes out, are you able to limp home with crappy shocks to swap in OE controller? Or are you kind of stuck because can’t risk shocks?

Yes, zero issues driving other than a "Suspension Control Error" on your MFD, along with a slightly bouncy ride.

[Palmermc]

Mine just bit the dust as well after 3 months. For a few days I got random suspension faults when starting the car, but a restart would clear them. Then yesterday it faulted every time I started the car.

I pulled the controller out and went back to stock. Instantly the car feels more stable and confident compared to the tubes I was tinkering with.

This is a bad product.

[fluevog]

Recently sold my third replacement from APR. Only a matter of time until these fail. Unreliable and not user friendly.

Your better off with Springs or Coilovers with supporting suspension upgrades.