2013 allroad and coolant flush mixed answers

[LmG7119]

Hi All
I need to do a coolant flush and I got a quote from 2 different places. The dealer charges $300 and says it will use 2 gallons of G13 and another shop gave a quote for $244 and included 4 gallons. The latter shop is going to get an OEM G13 from a dealer at $38/gallon.

How much does my car need?

Thanks

[Smac770]

If we google search "audi 2013 a4 fluid capacity table", we come to https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...22734-9999.pdf , which reports the cooling system as 7.0 L aka 7.4 qt, which is just under 2 gallons.

G12++ or G13 would be the preference, but G12++ got replaced long ago by G13, and G13 is currently getting replaced by G12evo. So any of the three is fine.

I would never "flush" the system, just drain and fill. The shop is probably quoting two loads to do the task twice as a psuedo flush?

[audrobotic]

Yes, but:
“Audi is one of the few manufacturers whose coolant does not require changing.”

Source: Audi

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76873-0001.pdf

Audi nonsense aside, are you just wanting to drain and fill coolant as preventive maintenance? Also FYI in recent past I’ve been charged about $28 for gallon of coolant for various coolant related work (hose replacement etc). Labor for just the coolant cant be determined because it included the other work.

[LmG7119]

If we google search "audi 2013 a4 fluid capacity table", we come to https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...22734-9999.pdf , which reports the cooling system as 7.0 L aka 7.4 qt, which is just under 2 gallons.

G12++ or G13 would be the preference, but G12++ got replaced long ago by G13, and G13 is currently getting replaced by G12evo. So any of the three is fine.

I would never "flush" the system, just drain and fill. The shop is probably quoting two loads to do the task twice as a psuedo flush?

Is that 2 gallons concentrated?

"psuedo flush" I don't feel like they were abusing. They said they will order it from dealer. I'm wondering if they are trying to fully flush it.

[LmG7119]

Yes, but:
“Audi is one of the few manufacturers whose coolant does not require changing.”

Source: Audi

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76873-0001.pdf

Audi nonsense aside, are you just wanting to drain and fill coolant as preventive maintenance? Also FYI in recent past I’ve been charged about $28 for gallon of coolant for various coolant related work (hose replacement etc). Labor for just the coolant cant be determined because it included the other work.

"as preventive maintenance?" Yes and no. I get a light on when I start a car in the winter and then when the car is fully warmed up the light goes off. The dealer topped it off once and the level is right when cold and hot. So the dealer suggested flushing it and my car has 75K miles so it is time somewhat.

I saw Amazon and auto parts stores have violent for $19/ gallon but I did not feel comfortable and neither did the shop.

[eljay]

For simple drain/refill, you'd need two gallons. For a "flush", I assume, they essentially do two drain/refills, so 4 gallons makes sense - that's mixed gallons! Ordering 4 concentrated gallons is overkill.

[LmG7119]

For simple drain/refill, you'd need two gallons. For a "flush", I assume, they essentially do two drain/refills, so 4 gallons makes sense - that's mixed gallons! Ordering 4 concentrated gallons is overkill.

If they are doing it twice then it would still not flush things inside the radiator. Is it? What is the purpose of doing it twice? A better clean out of internal gunk?

[Smac770]

Is that 2 gallons concentrated?

The cooling systems holds 7.4 qt. of liquid. However you want to mix coolant and distilled water to make that 7.4 qt is up to you.

[JLAllroad]

The cooling systems holds 7.4 qt. of liquid. However you want to mix coolant and distilled water to make that 7.4 qt is up to you.

Agreed but the cooling system is very similar to an automatic transmission where drain and fill averages around only getting half of the capacity out.

In regards to coolant replacement, either buy the premix or mix 50/50, don’t dump concentrate in, because unless you measured what came out you don’t know how much will go back in.


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[Smac770]

You would only mix before and pour into the car the proper mix. Who would pour in concentrate and distilled separately? I guess though I could see people doing that, now that the approach has been put in my head. But yeah, no, not the way to do it.

The 1 gallon 50/50 premix containers are the way to go. But I bought the 1 gallon concentrate back in the day; picked up 1 gallon distilled from the drug store. Pour half of the distilled into a container, pour half of the concentrate into the distilled, pour the distilled in the 3rd container into the concentrate, now you have two 1 gallon containers of 50/50.

Which now that I look at this container, it says for the drain/fill process:

drain system
if rusty or dirty, use a chemical cleaner following instructions for the cleaner
fill system with distilled water (not 50/50)
run engine until warm with heater on high (ie, get the water going through the heat exchanger)
drain system
repeat until drainage is clear colored
fill system with 50/50

Noting the filling process for these engines is a vacuum loading process, not gravity fill.

[JLAllroad]

fill system with distilled water (not 50/50)
run engine until warm with heater on high (ie, get the water going through the heat exchanger)
drain system
repeat until drainage is clear colored
fill system with 50/50

Noting the filling process for these engines is a vacuum loading process, not gravity fill.

For the average DIYer, without vacuum filling, this process would lead to a diluted coolant mix as you’ve filled with distilled till clear, drained (only half), then filled with 50/50.

You can see why Audi would prefer to add 50/50 over the lifetime than drain fill or flush.


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[Smac770]

That's curious, but I see where you're coming from. But it would make the workshop manual process a poor process if the majority of the coolant is not removed by gravity drain. The vacuum establishment for filling will remove some coolant according to the manual, but no implication that it'll evacuate another 3+ qt. And make premix useless for drain/fill. Though then would only need 1 gal for of concentrate for the whole process. But they don't sell 1 gal concentrate anymore.

I'll have to keep it in mind when I replace my pump to address the leaking o-rings. But would look for how to full drain the system rather than hope the 1 gal of concentrate sitting in the reservoir ends up sufficiently mixing with the 1 gal of distilled sitting in the engine in a reasonable time.

[LmG7119]

So should I ask the shop that quoted 4 gallons if they are doing it twice? I can ask them to only do it once.

I called another shop that specializes in German cars and their quote was 1 gallon and with labor total $240

[LmG7119]

That's curious, but I see where you're coming from. But it would make the workshop manual process a poor process if the majority of the coolant is not removed by gravity drain. The vacuum establishment for filling will remove some coolant according to the manual, but no implication that it'll evacuate another 3+ qt. And make premix useless for drain/fill. Though then would only need 1 gal for of concentrate for the whole process. But they don't sell 1 gal concentrate anymore.

I'll have to keep it in mind when I replace my pump to address the leaking o-rings. But would look for how to full drain the system rather than hope the 1 gal of concentrate sitting in the reservoir ends up sufficiently mixing with the 1 gal of distilled sitting in the engine in a reasonable time.

So I talked to the shop which quoted me 4 gallons. He explained to me that system holds much more liquid than 7L and they are pressurizing and cleaning everything out from a radiator with a cleaning additive VPS Radiator Protection kit.

Does this make sense?

[Smac770]

I linked the Audi published document that shows the coolant system fluid capacity, 7.0 L for 2.0T A4, 11.1 L for 3.0T S4.

But, if I go and look at the document for my 2009 A4 2.0T, it shows the coolant system fluid capacity as 9.0 L / 9.5 qt (and no reference for the 3.0T as it didn't exist for MY09 B8). But I wouldn't be surprised that's a copy paste error from the 3.2L entry on that table.

If we go through them all:
MY09 - 9.0 L
MY10-MY13 - 7.0 L
MY14-MY16 - 10.0 L

So yeah. Also, for MY14-MY16, the 3.0T changed from 11.1 L to 12.0 L. The MY14 update also changed the coolant reference from G12++ to G13. Had they just been running with wrong info until someone had to update the document and finally fixed it? Who knows.

Another thread (A7 3.0T) of how the volume number doesn't mean much if not being done with the proper technique - https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Coolant-flush


The MY10-MY13 A5 gets more interesting. MY15 A5 2.0T is a blanket 10.0 L like the A4.

But the MY12 and MY13 A5 2.0T is more elaborate based on vehicle and transmission:
7.0 L for A5 cabriolet
7.8 L for A5 coupe with 0B2 or 0B6
9.0 L for A5 coupe with 0BK

So ... somewhere between 7.0 and 10.0 L, most likely. :-D

[LmG7119]

I linked the Audi published document that shows the coolant system fluid capacity, 7.0 L for 2.0T A4, 11.1 L for 3.0T S4.

But, if I go and look at the document for my 2009 A4 2.0T, it shows the coolant system fluid capacity as 9.0 L / 9.5 qt (and no reference for the 3.0T as it didn't exist for MY09 B8). But I wouldn't be surprised that's a copy paste error from the 3.2L entry on that table.

If we go through them all:
MY09 - 9.0 L
MY10-MY13 - 7.0 L
MY14-MY16 - 10.0 L

So yeah. Also, for MY14-MY16, the 3.0T changed from 11.1 L to 12.0 L. The MY14 update also changed the coolant reference from G12++ to G13. Had they just been running with wrong info until someone had to update the document and finally fixed it? Who knows.

Another thread (A7 3.0T) of how the volume number doesn't mean much if not being done with the proper technique - https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Coolant-flush

So what you are saying is that 4 gallons sound ok? I was reading another forum and they were talking against pressurized cleaning with additives. Just do drain and refill.

[Smac770]

I would say how much pressure. The system pressurizes to 1 bar or so with engine running anyway. That's 14-15 psi. And the vacuum loading process sets a vacuum of 12-13 psi before loading in the coolant. So the system experiences pressure and vacuum already, just a question of how much are you intending to apply.

As for running a round of cleaner through, if you don't have a problem you're trying to solve, like a clogged heater core, etc., ....

I had the dealership do a drain/fill after 7-8 years of in-service, and it's about time to do that again (in conjunction with finally replacing this original coolant pump). I figure the protectants in the coolant only last so long, regardless of what Audi says. I wouldn't want anything but just remove old / install new, in my case.

[LmG7119]

I would say how much pressure. The system pressurizes to 1 bar or so with engine running anyway. That's 14-15 psi. And the vacuum loading process sets a vacuum of 12-13 psi before loading in the coolant. So the system experiences pressure and vacuum already, just a question of how much are you intending to apply.

As for running a round of cleaner through, if you don't have a problem you're trying to solve, like a clogged heater core, etc., ....

I had the dealership do a drain/fill after 7-8 years of in-service, and it's about time to do that again (in conjunction with finally replacing this original coolant pump). I figure the protectants in the coolant only last so long, regardless of what Audi says. I wouldn't want anything but just remove old / install new, in my case.

My understanding was that they want to push the cleaning additive through. I was reading in the link you posted that not everything can be cleared out by simple drain and refill. Some people use distilled water and I assume these guys do similar things.
The issue I have is that I get a coolant light on when the car starts mostly on cold days but after it warms up the light goes away. The levels are fine. I make sure of that. The dealer suggested a coolant flush and see if it helps. The car has 75K miles and coolant most likely should be flushed anyway.

[audrobotic]

"as preventive maintenance?" Yes and no. I get a light on when I start a car in the winter and then when the car is fully warmed up the light goes off. The dealer topped it off once and the level is right when cold and hot. So the dealer suggested flushing it and my car has 75K miles so it is time somewhat.

I saw Amazon and auto parts stores have violent for $19/ gallon but I did not feel comfortable and neither did the shop.

I think there might be missing puzzle piece here. Do you get a light that says low coolant but it's not actually low? Because I had that issue and it was the coolant bottle itself. which has coolant sensor built in. Replaced the coolant bottle and fixed.

[LmG7119]

I think there might be missing puzzle piece here. Do you get a light that says low coolant but it's not actually low? Because I had that issue and it was the coolant bottle itself. which has coolant sensor built in. Replaced the coolant bottle and fixed.

Correct. The light says it is low but it is not. The coolant reservoir was replaced around 4 years ago because the original was cracked. I used to drive every day to work and back but now only drive maybe once a week. I think last summer when I was driving every day the light would not come up every day. It feels like flushing coolant is a good start as I think I would need it anyway.

[Smac770]

A flush for a low coolant light doesn't sound like a logical first step. The G32 engine coolant level sensor, built into the base of the coolant reservoir, is two wires both from the J519 BCM (09-central electrics, under the dash behind the headlamp switch).

The ground line, from J519 plug T32b pin 25, is shared with a number of devices, including the G17 ambient temp sensor and the front heated seat thermistors. This is on pin 1 of the G32 plug. The voltage line, from J519 plug T32b pin 27, is on pin 2 of the G32 plug. The G32 is just a float. If it's floating, there's no closed connection and the J519 sees no activity on the voltage line. If it's not floating, the connection is closed, and the J519 sees current flow on the voltage line.

So if the light is coming on (I assume there's no "light", but some icon and text message on the DIS?), I don't see how changing your coolant is going to matter. Float, switch, wiring, J519 circuit, maybe. But coolant age? How is that applicable?

And you're sure the issue is about coolant level and not about coolant temp? I'm not sure, but if the "light" is on and you unplug the sensor, does the light go out?

From the manual:
"If the engine coolant level is correct, then the radiator fan may be the cause of the malfunction."

It would be a lot better if you scanned for codes during the error state and confirm exactly what the car is going on about.

[LmG7119]

A flush for a low coolant light doesn't sound like a logical first step. The G32 engine coolant level sensor, built into the base of the coolant reservoir, is two wires both from the J519 BCM (09-central electrics, under the dash behind the headlamp switch).

The ground line, from J519 plug T32b pin 25, is shared with a number of devices, including the G17 ambient temp sensor and the front heated seat thermistors. This is on pin 1 of the G32 plug. The voltage line, from J519 plug T32b pin 27, is on pin 2 of the G32 plug. The G32 is just a float. If it's floating, there's no closed connection and the J519 sees no activity on the voltage line. If it's not floating, the connection is closed, and the J519 sees current flow on the voltage line.

So if the light is coming on (I assume there's no "light", but some icon and text message on the DIS?), I don't see how changing your coolant is going to matter. Float, switch, wiring, J519 circuit, maybe. But coolant age? How is that applicable?

And you're sure the issue is about coolant level and not about coolant temp? I'm not sure, but if the "light" is on and you unplug the sensor, does the light go out?

From the manual:
"If the engine coolant level is correct, then the radiator fan may be the cause of the malfunction."

It would be a lot better if you scanned for codes during the error state and confirm exactly what the car is going on about.

I will scan it when the screen shows a warning about coolant being low. I do have VCDS.

This is what I thought that is a floater that gets stuck but when everything is warmed up then float gets free. As for the age of the coolant, I thought to flush it as a preventive maintenance at the same time to see if it would solve the issue for a floater.

[Smac770]

Yeah, if the coolant is 7+ years old, I would say it's good to swap it out. I did that at 7.x years, now I'll do it again at 14.x years.

[Theiceman]

i did mine at 5 years and it was fine . but yeah it has properties it looses so if in doubt, swap it out .. its cheap really and makes you feel good after.