ported supercharger maxing out ie hpfp on e37

[f4m0u5]

Hows it going guys?

im running 034 stage 2 dual pulley e40 file on a ported charger with e37 fuel and currently maxing out the fuel pressure duty cycle.

i tried e42 first that was to much and then droped to e37 with same issue.

Im scared to go much lower because at e42 was 0 timing pull and going down to e37 already got knock up to -2,-3

also looks like my stft are still taking away a little fuel even when the fuel rail pressure drops so atleast not leaning out but i cant run it like this.

e37 log
https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/e37...62-364-342-383

What are you ported charger guys runing for e content?

[EvolutionArmory]

You need water meth.

[f4m0u5]

You need water meth.

really dnt wanna rely on w/m so if this is normal for sea level/ low da with a 3.24 pr i may swap the 57 to a 60mm griptech

[Fresh.S4]

It's probably your location.
I've got the same PR and I run e42-44 all day.

[Sendit_S4]

I agree, do not rely on WMI. How many miles on your LPFP? Your numbers on the low side look a bit off from what the ecu wants, right in the area you are maxing the HPFP. I had a similar issue and the LPFP helped fix my problem.

Since you are running a 034 tune, you can contact 034 and they will review your logs and give you feedback!

[f4m0u5]

Thanks for the responses!

it could definitely be location so maybe just need little less boost and downgrade from a 57 to 60mm griptech, atleast for winter time.

i noticed that on my lp side alsoand was thinking of doing pump but from the people i spoke to they said its normal to fsll off as long as not under 4.5bar or w.e. I may just do the fuel pump as maintenance since it has 130k on it.

i did email 034 they have jsut been so busy it takes them multiple days to respond

[f4m0u5]

and heres a log of 91 oct on the ported charger

https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/por...162-107-101-98



Has anyone ran e30 on lets say the 100 octane file? maybe i can keep up with fueling there and the timing table will be
slightly less aggressive then the e40 file so no worries about me knocking as i lower e content

[JRYtheS4]

and heres a log of 91 oct on the ported charger

https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/por...162-107-101-98



Has anyone ran e30 on lets say the 100 octane file? maybe i can keep up with fueling there and the timing table will be
slightly less aggressive then the e40 file so no worries about me knocking as i lower e content

Instead of asking here I would strongly recommend you ask your tuner to adapt their tune to meet the needs of your car and environment. They are there to support their tune. In the meantime just step down to a lower octane file and run pump gas.

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[f4m0u5]

Instead of asking here I would strongly recommend you ask your tuner to adapt their tune to meet the needs of your car and environment. They are there to support their tune. In the meantime just step down to a lower octane file and run pump gas.

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was also thinking this. waiting on response from 034 to see if they wil update the file for ported charger on e 30 or something.

[f4m0u5]

since at 130k miles i orderd a rs7 fuel pump, and new genuine injectirs and lastly a new high side fuel pressure sensor. ishould probably do the low side sensor while im at it



still waiting on reply from 034

[EvolutionArmory]

Those are the only options you have. Reduce pulley ratio or run water meth.

[EvolutionArmory]

and heres a log of 91 oct on the ported charger

https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/por...162-107-101-98



Has anyone ran e30 on lets say the 100 octane file? maybe i can keep up with fueling there and the timing table will be
slightly less aggressive then the e40 file so no worries about me knocking as i lower e content

If you run E30 on the 100 octane tune now you’re just relying on your O2 sensors to adapt to proper lambda. Plenty of people have done it but it’s no safer than relying on water meth to be able to run E40.

Both have risks.

[f4m0u5]

Those are the only options you have. Reduce pulley ratio or run water meth.

i will see where im at with the new pump/injectors and high presssure sensor.

i will probably end up running 93 any ways for streetn and just want the e40 for track. but at that rate i may run ms109 instead and the 104 file since i can get a good deal from a dealer and only using it for the track.

not sure so many options.

eventually i am going to add w/m but again im not going to relly on it except for maybe track runs

On that note , have you hit up new england dragway yet this year? i havent gone since 2021 have been so busy with family

[EvolutionArmory]

No. The first opening week was completely washed out.

The only day they actually ran a track day was last Sunday.

This week will probably be a wash out too. April sucks. Half the days get canceled from rain or cold temps.

[f4m0u5]

Ended up doing a few things. replaced the fuel pump witha. rs7 unit ( did t expect much bust stock onehsf 130k on it) logged with same results. then did new high oresssure sensor and all 6 new genuine fuel injectors. k omce again had 130k on them why not) car runs smoother but same thing happens with maxing pump.

i figred thise mlre as maintenance any ways


now swapped to a 60mm pulley to lower boost slightly. and was still maxing out the pump.

currently back to the smaller pulley and the 93 oct tune for now.

[BrokeBichB8]

Ended up doing a few things. replaced the fuel pump witha. rs7 unit ( did t expect much bust stock onehsf 130k on it) logged with same results. then did new high oresssure sensor and all 6 new genuine fuel injectors. k omce again had 130k on them why not) car runs smoother but same thing happens with maxing pump.

i figred thise mlre as maintenance any ways


now swapped to a 60mm pulley to lower boost slightly. and was still maxing out the pump.

currently back to the smaller pulley and the 93 oct tune for now.

Your case is an example that I'm not sure what the resolve is. I dont know if 034 does it because a tuning /protection issue..... forcing hpfp 99% to make sure any and all fuel is atomized at the highest pressure possible....

Or what I was also seeing that even though your lpfp is still moving fuel, the hpfp piston pump now creates enough suction when working, that it is vaporizing the gas/e40 mix. The mechanics of positive displacement pumps( or any nearly any pump) when inlet pressure is too low, the vacuum the pump creates causes cavitation that will limit its amount of "fill and flow." So on your logs at about 6500hpa LPFP (5500 rpm) the pressure starts to drop more rapidly and that in turn shows up on the highside as not being able to meet spec pressure. Idk just a thought.

[f4m0u5]

Your case is an example that I'm not sure what the resolve is. I dont know if 034 does it because a tuning /protection issue..... forcing hpfp 99% to make sure any and all fuel is atomized at the highest pressure possible....

Or what I was also seeing that even though your lpfp is still moving fuel, the hpfp piston pump now creates enough suction when working, that it is vaporizing the gas/e40 mix. The mechanics of positive displacement pumps( or any nearly any pump) when inlet pressure is too low, the vacuum the pump creates causes cavitation that will limit its amount of "fill and flow." So on your logs at about 6500hpa LPFP (5500 rpm) the pressure starts to drop more rapidly and that in turn shows up on the highside as not being able to meet spec pressure. Idk just a thought.

Im not sure either. lookong at my 93 oct logs vs the e40 logs i noticed that the 93 oct file requests 20k less fuel rail pressure then the e40 file. that may be why on e file its actually under fuel rail prsssure butvon 93 oct im alwaya over requested pressure. only.because e40 is requesting highe pressure.


the s6 guys are testing a second pump added into tank that ts into stock line and runs off a boost switch. so the secondary fuel pump will only kick on when ur engines boost is over x amount ( 10 or 15 psi)

[f4m0u5]

Instead of asking here I would strongly recommend you ask your tuner to adapt their tune to meet the needs of your car and environment. They are there to support their tune. In the meantime just step down to a lower octane file and run pump gas.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

034 basically said they wont update the files for me.or make a e 30 file to turn down the boost. andi ddid end up trying this wich didnt help. kinda bummed out they wont help me.

epl was great at giving me cutsom files with tweaks in it

[SwankPeRFection]

Are you actually leaning out or does 034 just have a high request pressure put in and letting the injectors duty cycle dial back if too rich?

[f4m0u5]

Are you actually leaning out or does 034 just have a high request pressure put in and letting the injectors duty cycle dial back if too rich?

no im not leaning out still actualy pulling fuel even when the pumps maxed so maybe kts jsut this and they didnt mention it?

maybe its just requesting too high of pressure.( requested pressure is 20k over in the e40 file vs 93)


i sent them logs and they ddint like them and told me to lower boost. or run 93 or race gas instead of Ethanol. i took it as they dnt support ported superchargers on ethonal really.


but heres latest log new fuel pump and injectors still on e35.

https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/new-fuel-injectors-e35


i just dont get how a non ported charger i barely hit 80% on the fuel pumpon e40 and now is hitting 99% with just a little more boost not full 4psi (since i tried dialing back with a 60mm pulley vs 57)

heres ported charger but biger s/c pulley
https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/60m...?log=0&data=45

[SwankPeRFection]

Boost measurement is the positive pressure buildup in the intake tract pre-intake valves (ie what the engine cannot ingest in air). A ported supercharger could flow a lot more air at the same pressures as before and even sometimes at less pressures. Porting is usually don’t to improve flow and reduce heat generating turbulence in said airflow. There’s a good chance you could be flowing a lot more air into the engine now and at the higher pressure (+4 PSI) it could be even more than you think. What’s your crank pulley size and what ratio are you running with your intended setup of both pulleys upgraded? This may sound stupid, but have you tried dialing it back even more on the ratio and see where you are with the fueling to see if it dials that pressure back?

[SwankPeRFection]

Also, someone needs to log their E40 034 file running a normal charger with DP ratios (if there’s anyone out there) and see what they’re seeing. The whole ethanol and upgrading the HPFP is a hack to run more pressure and spray more fuel. It’s the equivalent to the old school FPR setups we’d run on the return lines when in boost. There’s a good chance their tune is pegging the pressure values and then letting the ECU handle the fueling by dialing back the injectors based on the wideband feedback it sees.

Dumb question but if you have no knock on E40 with their file and the logs are clean why not just run that? I get that the value you’re concerned about is the HPFP utilization, but unless they flat out will say that 99% isn’t good with that file or someone else can chime in with their E40 034 results on a stock charger, we won’t know for sure. I’d put in a request to call you to discuss. Sometimes I can’t stand 034 and they’re ridiculous ways of handling tech support. Ugh!

[Fresh.S4]

Calling Sean@034...

[f4m0u5]

Also, someone needs to log their E40 034 file running a normal charger with DP ratios (if there’s anyone out there) and see what they’re seeing. The whole ethanol and upgrading the HPFP is a hack to run more pressure and spray more fuel. It’s the equivalent to the old school FPR setups we’d run on the return lines when in boost. There’s a good chance their tune is pegging the pressure values and then letting the ECU handle the fueling by dialing back the injectors based on the wideband feedback it sees.

Dumb question but if you have no knock on E40 with their file and the logs are clean why not just run that? I get that the value you’re concerned about is the HPFP utilization, but unless they flat out will say that 99% isn’t good with that file or someone else can chime in with their E40 034 results on a stock charger, we won’t know for sure. I’d put in a request to call you to discuss. Sometimes I can’t stand 034 and they’re ridiculous ways of handling tech support. Ugh!

i have logs of the e40 034 file on stock charger and it request the same amount of fuel rail pressure. but duty cycle never goes near max on the fuel pump

but as you said its not just about air pressure its about flow and that makes sence. on 034 e40 stock charger i saw max of about 1200 g/s from maf. now with ported charger that goes up to almost 1380 g/s. and i checked even when i went from the 57 to 60mm pulley, it was still pulling close to 1300g/s.


i run a 188 crank and 60 or 57mm griptexh pulley thats a quick swap. buti dont have a 63 or 66 mm.


heres logs on stock charger 034 e40 file.


https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/e-3...?log=0&data=45

[BrokeBichB8]

no im not leaning out still actualy pulling fuel even when the pumps maxed so maybe kts jsut this and they didnt mention it?

maybe its just requesting too high of pressure.( requested pressure is 20k over in the e40 file vs 93)


i sent them logs and they ddint like them and told me to lower boost. or run 93 or race gas instead of Ethanol. i took it as they dnt support ported superchargers on ethonal really.


but heres latest log new fuel pump and injectors still on e35.

https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/new-fuel-injectors-e35


i just dont get how a non ported charger i barely hit 80% on the fuel pumpon e40 and now is hitting 99% with just a little more boost not full 4psi (since i tried dialing back with a 60mm pulley vs 57)

heres ported charger but biger s/c pulley
https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/60m...?log=0&data=45

034 told me the same thing........ I believe that its their tuning strategy. They have to design the tune safeties for the worst scenario. So I'm pretty sure that means that they scale the pressure requests with airflow/boost. I have a 196/57 and ported blower and have encountered the exact same issue on e40.On 91 tune it works ok, but HPFP still peaks on hard pulls. From looking at a lot of logs I think their goal is to never let the fuel system run lean(or run out of lpfp) enough to burn a cylinder. There's a direct relation with the lpfp pressure drops and the hpfp valve peaks. I have added a dual lpfp and logs on e40 look better in terms of hpfp regulation. check it out:

First log is Dual lpfp pumps activated, second log in drop down is one pump turned on only. Both are PMW controlled. Lots of knock I know, but in terms of fueling control it shows improvement.
https://datazap.me/u/brokebichb8/log...a=7-8-33-34-46

Someone said you need meth, and I think with our tune as is, I have to agree.

[f4m0u5]

Thanks for that and the logs. i ended up buying fuel lab pump and all the stuff needed to wire it in and run a hobb switch to only turn on when in boost. iorderd last noght now waiting for the parts. hopefully this will solve it

[RoofRails]

I agree that you can't just compare boost #s when looking at the increased fuel demand of a ported blower. Between a handful of before and after dynos and a bunch of 1/4 mile data, it's safe to say a decent ported blower is worth every bit of 50+whp of additional air.

After you have thrown every possible upgraded or brand new fuel component at this and you're still in the same boat, wmi will be there waiting for you. It's 100% guaranteed to add fuel to your system and reduce the strain on your fuel system.

I also would love to see an E30 option from 034 to take some of the load off of the fuel system and not have to supplement fueling with wmi.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[SwankPeRFection]

The irony of all of this is 034 is the one tuner that said they’re not going to be doing any work in regards to port injection for additional fueling.

[RoofRails]

The irony of all of this is 034 is the one tuner that said they’re not going to be doing any work in regards to port injection for additional fueling.

034 is also the only OTS tuner that offers a WMI file, so at least if you are going to run it, you have an option to run a file designed for it.

After following along with a couple of guys trying to fix this MPI solution, I'm not surprised at all that 034 said they wouldn't support it. There are lots more obstacles to overcome before that becomes a viable solution. I.E also abandoned MPI.

034 has also hinted that they have another fueling solution in the works. So, hopefully, that becomes a reality.



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[f4m0u5]

im in middle of building a second fuel pump to kick on under boost only like others have done. it shuld be about $500 for me to do so not bad.

[EvolutionArmory]

034 isn’t going to give you a custom file and they don’t endorse ported blowers.

So like I said, run water meth. Get out of your own way and run the thing that’s actually going to fix your issue.

[JRYtheS4]

I like the other benefit of running wmi being that it keeps everything all nice and clean!

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[f4m0u5]

034 isn’t going to give you a custom file and they don’t endorse ported blowers.

So like I said, run water meth. Get out of your own way and run the thing that’s actually going to fix your issue.

W/m is a bandaid to MY issue. i am loosing fuel pressure. i am not running lean my fuel injectors are actually still pulling fuel...... so if anything, would it cause them to pull even more fuel (stft hitting -15% already.)

W/m has its benifits but that is not fixing low fuel pressure.

[wrxkyle]

034 isn’t going to give you a custom file and they don’t endorse ported blowers.

So like I said, run water meth. Get out of your own way and run the thing that’s actually going to fix your issue.

where does 034 mention not supporting ported blowers? or are you talking about their comments regarding tba blowers like the potential merc blower?

[EvolutionArmory]

where does 034 mention not supporting ported blowers? or are you talking about their comments regarding tba blowers like the potential merc blower?

Watch their videos on YouTube. Someone asks if a ported blower is worth it. They basically say no.

They say you have no idea what you’re getting with these dremeled out ported blowers and say maybe you’ll get some consistency with a CNC port…maybe.

I’m paraphrasing of course.

They do not endorse ported blowers and they don’t support it with tuning either 🤷*♂️


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[EvolutionArmory]

I went to the track with a buddy who has one of Shane’s ported blowers and he couldn’t beat my best stock blower trap speed all night. Same pulley ratio, same 100 octane tune.

We were either nearly identical or mine were better and my car was trapping around 120-121 for 4 passes and he couldn’t beat my best trap speed after 12 passes.

You would figure that a ported blower car would be able to out trap a stock blower car at least once after 12 passes. Either by the law of averages or just dumb luck.

You have no idea what you’re getting with these hand ported blowers. Just because one person reported gains that doesn’t mean the one you got is even remotely close to what that person got. And there’s more to it than just removing material and getting more air volume in.

At least with a CNC port the difference between 1 supercharger compared to another should be more repeatable.


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[gj314]

I went to the track with a buddy who has one of Shane’s ported blowers and he couldn’t beat my best stock blower trap speed all night. Same pulley ratio, same 100 octane tune.

We were either nearly identical or mine were better and my car was trapping around 120-121 for 4 passes and he couldn’t beat my best trap speed after 12 passes.

You would figure that a ported blower car would be able to out trap a stock blower car at least once after 12 passes. Either by the law of averages or just dumb luck.

You have no idea what you’re getting with these hand ported blowers. Just because one person reported gains that doesn’t mean the one you got is even remotely close to what that person got. And there’s more to it than just removing material and getting more air volume in.

At least with a CNC port the difference between 1 supercharger compared to another should be more repeatable.


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As we’ve discussed I’m pretty sure my needle bearings are fucked and I’m down on boost/rotors not sealing perfectly. So yeah my ported blower might be making less boost than a non ported one, which puts the fact that my car was not trapping above yours consistently into perspective.

[f4m0u5]

As we’ve discussed I’m pretty sure my needle bearings are fucked and I’m down on boost/rotors not sealing perfectly. So yeah my ported blower might be making less boost than a non ported one, which puts the fact that my car was not trapping above yours consistently into perspective.

any logs we can look at ?

i know there is 1000 variables. and ofcourse something is not right there.


Evloution, You are correct manual ports arent all the exact same its slightly different each time. my car gained a good amount of boost off the port( log varified) . and is very responsive. and now running out of fuel Lets see his logs of whats going on before assuming. if hes on stock hpfp its very possible hes maxing that out. or his car may have air in system or something going on with the charger like he said.

[EvolutionArmory]

any logs we can look at ?

i know there is 1000 variables. and ofcourse something is not right there.


Evloution, You are correct manual ports arent all the exact same its slightly different each time. my car gained a good amount of boost off the port( log varified) . and is very responsive. and now running out of fuel Lets see his logs of whats going on before assuming. if hes on stock hpfp its very possible hes maxing that out. or his car may have air in system or something going on with the charger like he said.

Your car gained some boost on the logs which is a good indication that the port did something. But the question remains, is your car any faster with actual before and after proof?

More boost isn’t good if the inconsistent hand port changes the way air flows through the charger in a negative way.

I’m sure the majority of hand port guys out there turn out a good product. I’m just saying it’s impossible for them to be 100% consistent. You don’t know what you’re getting.

Seriously though, I think Gordon’s car is just clapped out and once he fixes his blower he’s going to beat me badly at the track.

I mean, he ought to with more mods.


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[f4m0u5]

added a second fuel pump to kick on over 10psi of boost.



https://datazap.me/u/f4m0u582090/e35...14-113-110-159


logs look much cleaner. heres e35. going to up e content