H&R vs 034 Solid vs 034 Adjustable Rear Sway Bar

[WurstS4]

Looking to upgrade my RSB.

Have the rear sport diff for reference.

Which one of these 3 options would people recommend?

I don’t track, but drive quite spirited when possible.

Also, which end links do you recommend? Squeaks and rattles kind of drive me nuts, car is very quiet as is.

Do not plan on lowering, only other suspension mods I’d consider in the future would be the BFI or 034 mounts, but likely not, this is my daily and I put a ton of miles on the car.

Thanks in advance!

[WurstS4]

Also, there is surprisingly little on the BFI and 034 Motor and trans mounts on this forum.

At least in the form of reviews or true user experience.

Might just start a new thread for that, but what are some thoughts on these?

The BFI are 70 Durometer and the 034 50, stock is 45, but stock is hollow and liquid filled iirc. Is 70 too high for daily driving, as in creates a ton of vibration, especially and specifically at idle, at traffic lights and in stop and go traffic and the such?

[shawkur16v]

I've had 034 solid engine mounts for about 3k miles now. There is more vibration than the stock mounts I had, mostly in the front seats, but not unbearable in traffic by any means. For reference I have the 034 Billet transmission insert, poly diff mounts, and a JXB track driveshaft carrier.

[S4'ed]

I would recommend the front and rear Eurocode Tuning or H&R bars.

I had the front and rear Eurocode Tuning bars on my B8 S4, with factory end-links, no noises or issues in 60,000 miles of use.

The paint finish on the H&R bars is better than Eurocode or 034, it won't flake off and get surface rust. The H&R bars cost more, but they are of better quality.

There have been instances of the Euro Code bar fracturing, where the bushing retaining ring is welded to the hollow bar, due to stress-risers at the weld site. The rings on the H&R bars are not welded-on, to avoid this fracture risk. (they use a small set-screw to secure the ring to the bar)

Don't get the expensive metal Helm-joint type of end-links, they will start rattling after some use, when dirt gets into and wears the joint.

[WurstS4]

I've had 034 solid engine mounts for about 3k miles now. There is more vibration than the stock mounts I had, mostly in the front seats, but not unbearable in traffic by any means. For reference I have the 034 Billet transmission insert, poly diff mounts, and a JXB track driveshaft carrier.

Thank you, great info.

Thinking about the motor mounts(50 durometer), and the transmission insert.

I’m guessing the BFI’s, at 70 hardness cause a lot of vibration, going to avoid those then.

Had BFI mounts on my mk4.5 vr6 GTI, along with a bunch of other suspension work and had very very little vibration, but the car was so flat and tight without being brutal on potholes, expansion joints and road imperfections, such a nice, neutral handling car. But I’m imagining that is a different animal entirely, haven’t looked up the ratings on those actually for reference.

[WurstS4]

I would recommend the front and rear Eurocode Tuning or H&R bars.

I had the front and rear Eurocode Tuning bars on my B8 S4, with factory end-links, no noises or issues in 60,000 miles of use.

The paint finish on the H&R bars is better than Eurocode or 034, it won't flake off and get surface rust. The H&R bars cost more, but they are of better quality.

There have been instances of the Euro Code bar fracturing, where the bushing retaining ring is welded to the hollow bar, due to stress-risers at the weld site. The rings on the H&R bars are not welded-on, to avoid this fracture risk. (they use a small set-screw to secure the ring to the bar)

Don't get the expensive metal Helm-joint type of end-links, they will start rattling after some use, when dirt gets into and wears the joint.

My only thinking is the 034 bar is a millimeter thicker, but the little I find on the H&R gives it high praise.

[bakedziti]

My only thinking is the 034 bar is a millimeter thicker, but the little I find on the H&R gives it high praise.

H&R is the only one with Teflon bushings and has been making suspension components for over 40 years for many platforms and auto manufacturers.

I had a set of EC bars I sat on in a box for almost 2 years, and finally sold them after more than one story of total failures and made a play for H&R bars that were on sale as separates. Some of EC’s past products on my old B8 A4 didn’t really impress me from a quality or fit standpoint and I didn’t have the patience to deal with their support if I ran into an issue.

034 was never even a consideration for me because they finally stopped mixing the kool-aid and finally came out with a front bar after years of naysaying about it behind them, but on the up side is the only one supplying replacement sway bar brackets being that only the rear are available for purchase.

Just a note - anything that’s adjustable in length and is operated with some sort of jam nut (034, EC, ECS, SPC, etc) can and likely will cause noise based on the nature of how they operate and the tendency to need to be re-adjusted at ride height/under suspension load.

[WurstS4]

H&R is the only one with Teflon bushings and has been making suspension components for over 40 years for many platforms and auto manufacturers.

I had a set of EC bars I sat on in a box for almost 2 years, and finally sold them after more than one story of total failures and made a play for H&R bars that were on sale as separates. Some of EC’s past products on my old B8 A4 didn’t really impress me from a quality or fit standpoint and I didn’t have the patience to deal with their support if I ran into an issue.

034 was never even a consideration for me because they finally stopped mixing the kool-aid and finally came out with a front bar after years of naysaying about it behind them, but on the up side is the only one supplying replacement sway bar brackets being that only the rear are available for purchase.

Just a note - anything that’s adjustable in length and is operated with some sort of jam nut (034, EC, ECS, SPC, etc) can and likely will cause noise based on the nature of how they operate and the tendency to need to be re-adjusted at ride height/under suspension load.

I was honestly already leaning towards H&R, but if that’s the case with the Teflon bushings, it’s swayed me…🤔

What’s the move in your opinion? Pair with Moog end links?

[a4darkness]

Any F/R set of sways on an Audi will result in a massive improvement.

@ziti agreed about 034 finally showing up proper with a matched set. On the B6 had just their rear bar which was decent and the B7 a Hotchkis F/R set which is nothing short of magical. Yes Mr. Frodo, magical.

It's disappointing Hotchkis discontinued their set before I got to the party. That would def be my first choice. Similar sentiments about EC's quality / reliability so it'll be 034.

[bakedziti]

I was honestly already leaning towards H&R, but if that’s the case with the Teflon bushings, it’s swayed me…🤔

What’s the move in your opinion? Pair with Moog end links?

I don’t have the Moog end links on this car, but I had them on my old B8 A4 and I had no real complaints or issues. They can be hard to find these days, or at least were when I was piecing together my suspension during Covid, and to me it looks like the Macan stock units should be a similar option but a bit more expensive to remove the plastic end links PN#95B-505-465. I have also seen a few stories around the forum boards of issues with the Moog endlinks but I think some of that has surely been user error with questions about the washer placement and reuse of TTY bolts. I’ve also seen people order the metal Moog units only for plastic Moog units to arrive. By no means am I shitting on Moog and maybe the stock availability has changed recently but I was also looking for adjustable endlinks to account for the coilovers I was adding at the same time.

Any F/R set of sways on an Audi will result in a massive improvement.

@ziti agreed about 034 finally showing up proper with a matched set. On the B6 had just their rear bar which was decent and the B7 a Hotchkis F/R set which is nothing short of magical. Yes Mr. Frodo, magical.

It's disappointing Hotchkis discontinued their set before I got to the party. That would def be my first choice. Similar sentiments about EC's quality / reliability so it'll be 034.

Agreed, and I’m sure the 034 setup is great, it just wasn’t available when I was piecing together my setup and it sort of irks me that they flipped on that subject but whatever.

I didn’t realize that the Hotchkis setup also provided sway bar brackets but that’s a nice setup. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked at Hotchkis or this setup, but it appears there may be some new old stock available below.

https://apikol.com/product/audi-b8-a...-set-hotchkis/

[WurstS4]

Any F/R set of sways on an Audi will result in a massive improvement.

@ziti agreed about 034 finally showing up proper with a matched set. On the B6 had just their rear bar which was decent and the B7 a Hotchkis F/R set which is nothing short of magical. Yes Mr. Frodo, magical.

It's disappointing Hotchkis discontinued their set before I got to the party. That would def be my first choice. Similar sentiments about EC's quality / reliability so it'll be 034.

I’ve read a few places, including one manufacturer/distributor page that doing the front bar winds up negating a lot of the improvement of the fatter rear bar, so to leave the front bar be. That throwing a thicker front bar in will tighten up the front and make the turn in even crisper, but will make the understeer the fat rear bar did away with, reappear.

Idk if that’s really the case, but I have read that in a few different places, and comments.

[a4darkness]

I didn’t realize that the Hotchkis setup also provided sway bar brackets but that’s a nice setup. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked at Hotchkis or this setup, but it appears there may be some new old stock available below.

https://apikol.com/product/audi-b8-a...-set-hotchkis/

Hotchkis makes an incredible product. Sway bars are kinda their thing so it makes sense.
Appreciate you posting this. Immediately after buying my S4, scoured the web looking for some company that might still have a set. Last month ran across this and reached out to Apikol. Unfortunately they don't. Sad panda.

My previous experience with aftermarket end links felt like it made the rear too tight and squirrely, however was running some heavy Swift rear springs in that setup. What's your experience been like with them on the B8 platform?
Side note, now you've got me interested in the H&R bars. I see the front is adjustable... interesting. Stock the B8 S4's front end just flops all over the place, def needs some tightening up front.

I’ve read a few places, including one manufacturer/distributor page that doing the front bar winds up negating a lot of the improvement of the fatter rear bar, so to leave the front bar be. That throwing a thicker front bar in will tighten up the front and make the turn in even crisper, but will make the understeer the fat rear bar did away with, reappear.

Idk if that’s really the case, but I have read that in a few different places, and comments.

Respectfully, this couldn't be further from the case for our cars. Others yes, esp RWD setups but can't speak to that.
However for an understeering AWD German tank a proper set of sways will radically transform the vehicle's ability to destroy corners.
FWIW, I ran 4 or 5 different sway bar setups on the B6+7 and can overwhelmingly report that a matched set brought about the most significant performance upgrade.

To be clear, you're winning with whichever company you choose... H&R, 034 or EC all have great options with each one being a bit different than the others.


Related note, as luck would have it my S4 came completely stock... a blank canvas. Finally got to take it up on Highway 9 at night for a proper test. Even bone stock, absolutely astounding. I can't really fathom what she'll be capable of with the addition of sway bars (and suspension). Def found the limits however that's more due to stock springs + right height. The Sport Diff does a lot of work during cornering which leads me to believe a softer sway bar setup will be more complimentary. So 034's on soft setting will be my setup.

[Geomatics_Tech]

I really like my 034 rear sway. Also have alu kreuz and cr-15. Stock suspension otherwise. Car is much flatter in the curves

[WurstS4]

So I’ve decided on the H&R set, both front and rear. But which endlinks would everyone suggest running with them?

My car has 91k on the clock, so figure while I’m under there, I’ll replace them as well, even if it’s just with stock ones or Moog. Don’t want high maintenance, loud ones though, something that’s set it, and forget it.

Think I’m going to grab the CR - 15 front strut brace as well and fully tighten up the front.

[bakedziti]

My previous experience with aftermarket end links felt like it made the rear too tight and squirrely, however was running some heavy Swift rear springs in that setup. What's your experience been like with them on the B8 platform?
Side note, now you've got me interested in the H&R bars. I see the front is adjustable... interesting. Stock the B8 S4's front end just flops all over the place, def needs some tightening up front.

My car feels incredibly planted to the road with my current setup and has only gotten a bit hairy recently being that my snow tires are at the absolute end of their life and can break traction if I really push the car hard coming out of a dry or loose pavement corner (I’m also still breaking in my ringer clutch and FW so following the break-in suggestions from Mike at ringer and having fun with 2nd and 3rd gears up to redline and at higher loads). I’m waiting on some wheels to be refinished before putting the PS4Ses back on for summer but prior to the winter tires, the car didn’t have any issues in the same corners.

That said, I’m an interesting use case because I did all of my suspension modifications at once to reduce costs on TTY bolts and my alignments with ACC. I added the following all at once at 98K miles and it was a night and day difference in overall handling and confidence on the road:

• Bilstein PSS10s
• H&R Sway Bars F&R
• CR-15
• 034 Adjustable UCAs - Camber correcting
• 034 Density Line LCAs
• 034 Density line front upper strut mounts
• 034 Density line adjustable endlinks F&R
• 034 Transmission mount and billet insert
• 034 Density line adjustable rear toe arms
• 034 HD tie rod ends
• New bushings or new control arms for the rear arms that could be accessed without dropping the rear subframe.
• Not super related but I preventively had my front wheel bearings and hubs replaced at this time as well

I want to say I used the softer setting on my front H&R sway but I can confirm once it’s light out and get a chance to look under my car. I only have a couple of suspension mods left and that’s deciding on an X-brace and an upper front strut bar. I have the ECS skid plate after lowering the car so I considered getting the ECS X-brace and trans shield over the EC Alu Kreuz which is really expensive IMO for what it is or the 034 unit that’s in pieces and doesn’t seem like it be any stiffer to me over stock. The front upper strut bar is going to be a generic eBay kind because 034 lost their damn mind with that install and the ECS cf strut bar is again in pieces and doesn’t seem to provide any rigidity to me although it may look nice (for a little bit at least).

[S4'ed]

The ECS cross-brace is the one to get, versus the significantly more expensive EuroCode and 034 versions.
I put one on my Macan, and my SQ5 is next.

The H&R bars are both solid, and are stiffer than a hollow (EuroCode) bar of the same diameter. The 034 rear bar is solid, and the front bar is hollow.

If you use the stiffer setting on a rear bar, you typically will need to use a spacer between the control arm and the bottom of the endlink, so that the endlink is not excessively canted backwards, which can overstress a rubber or poly endlink bushing. The spacer compensates for for the shorter sway-bar arm distance to the axis of the bar center mounting point.