Engine Build List 650whp+

[VMCB5S4]

Untitled by Vince Cassello, on Flickr

Currently finishing the install of a PT6062 STK but wanted to start sorting out the details of the next engine build. Got my hands on a used BEL engine recently. I’m making a list of parts to collect and I’m hoping for some forum assistance with filling in the blanks, add missing items and/or recommendations on how to achieve my goals in a different way. I’m under no illusion this will be cheap but don’t want to spend more than what’s necessary. Target is north of 650whp on 93 pump gas with an 8,000rpm redline. From what I’ve read, this is a bit of a tall order without E85 but I want to try. Below is a list of what I’ve created so far. Thanks in advance to those who decide to chime in.

Block:
- Stock Crank (Have)
- Rods – Integrated Engineering
- Rod Bearings -
- Pistons/Rings -
- ARP Hardware
- 034 Billet Aluminum Rear Main Seal Kit
- FluidDampr Crank Pulley
- Balancing
- 034 Compression Lowering Head Gasket

Heads (8000rpm):
- 2.7 Heads (Porting = 2.8 sized)
- 2.8 Intake Cams
- Supertech Valvetrain Upgrade Kit +1mm Intake / +1mm Exhaust
- ARP Hardware
- "Monster" Intake Manifold 2.7 Ports (Have)
- 034 Phenolic Spacers - Transition 2.7 to 2.8 Port Size
- RS4 Throttle Body (Have)

Turbo Kit: (Have)
- 034 STK w/ 2.8 Exhaust Manifolds
- PT 6062 .64AR Hot Side
- PB5 FMIC Kit 2.5" Inlet 3.0" Outlet (600hp+ Core)

Fuel (93 Octane)
- Stock Lines/Rails
- Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump (Have)
- 1000cc Bosch EV14 Injectors (Have)

Clutch/Flywheel
- Ringer Racing Stage 4 Kit (840FtLbs @ Flywheel)

Planning to take the block in for cleaning/honing services. Compression lowering head gasket should assist with pump gas. Since I have 2.7 heads I'm of the mindset I should have them ported but the cost of porting vs buying 2.8 heads is something I haven't researched yet. I've heard mixed reviews of even going with the Torque Factory BC Valve Springs and Titanium Retainer kit over the Supertech kit for 8000rpm. Still learning more about that. I had a water/meth bung welded into my charge piping. If this is highly recommended then I'll plan to add an AEM kit to this list. The clutch kit is more than what I'll need but I like the wiggle room should I be able to increase power over time.

[belms4]

Are you planning on keeping 81mm bore? I've had a somewhat similar engine build planned for down the road one day, just not single turbo. Was planning on 82.5mm Mahle pistons.

Normally when doing something in that power range mentioned (with twin turbos) 2.8 heads may be a better choice and you'll get the larger exhaust ports with those as well. 2.8 heads are usually a few hundred dollars used or widely available from any yards for really cheap if you pull them yourself. If trying to keep smaller exhaust ports and larger intake ports then RS4 heads would be the comparison. In that case likely cheaper to port what you've got. I don't know crap about single turbo builds so hopefully someone else can be a better reference point for that power goal and what size ports you want for intake and exhaust.

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[DonnieDark0]

Subbing to this thread for future reference. Goodluck on this incredible engine build, this will be a great resource for us all.

[VMCB5S4]

Are you planning on keeping 81mm bore? I've had a somewhat similar engine build planned for down the road one day, just not single turbo. Was planning on 82.5mm Mahle pistons.

Normally when doing something in that power range mentioned (with twin turbos) 2.8 heads may be a better choice and you'll get the larger exhaust ports with those as well. 2.8 heads are usually a few hundred dollars used or widely available from any yards for really cheap if you pull them yourself. If trying to keep smaller exhaust ports and larger intake ports then RS4 heads would be the comparison. In that case likely cheaper to port what you've got. I don't know crap about single turbo builds so hopefully someone else can be a better reference point for that power goal and what size ports you want for intake and exhaust.

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

That's a good question. I'm not sure yet. I haven't researched the pros cons to increasing bore size. I'm not sure on the heads either as I've heard 2.7/2.8 heads have the same size exhaust ports. I'll have to look further into it. I'll start hunting for a set of 2.8 heads in the near future as the RS4 heads and 2.7 porting will cost quite a bit more in the end.

This build is largely about the experience for me. The sound of the 2.7 at 8k is beautiful. I believe the PT6062 I currently have will be up to the task.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[VMCB5S4]

Subbing to this thread for future reference. Goodluck on this incredible engine build, this will be a great resource for us all.

Excellent and thank you! Whatever the final consensus is I plan to document the process and post honest results. I'm interested to see the 93 pump gas results as so many builds I see are with E85.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Silverex]

That's a good question. I'm not sure yet. I haven't researched the pros cons to increasing bore size. I'm not sure on the heads either as I've heard 2.7/2.8 heads have the same size exhaust ports. I'll have to look further into it. I'll start hunting for a set of 2.8 heads in the near future as the RS4 heads and 2.7 porting will cost quite a bit more in the end.

This build is largely about the experience for me. The sound of the 2.7 at 8k is beautiful. Luckily the PT6062 I currently have will be up to the task.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Main reason to increase the bore size is so you can get bores nice and straight without any taper/out of roundness. Most guys want to keep as close to the stock bore as possible so the cylinder walls still have a lot of meat.

IMO I would use 2.7 heads with 2.8L cams, upgrade valve springs, and if budget allows some nice stock sized aftermarket valves.

As you already mentioned 650whp on pump gas is a hefty goal and I doubt that turbo will be up to the task. Would probably get pretty close depending on dyno but will have its tongue hanging out.

[eurogz]

Are you planning on keeping 81mm bore? I've had a somewhat similar engine build planned for down the road one day, just not single turbo. Was planning on 82.5mm Mahle pistons.

Normally when doing something in that power range mentioned (with twin turbos) 2.8 heads may be a better choice and you'll get the larger exhaust ports with those as well. 2.8 heads are usually a few hundred dollars used or widely available from any yards for really cheap if you pull them yourself. If trying to keep smaller exhaust ports and larger intake ports then RS4 heads would be the comparison. In that case likely cheaper to port what you've got. I don't know crap about single turbo builds so hopefully someone else can be a better reference point for that power goal and what size ports you want for intake and exhaust.

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

Is the increased displacement worth the increased time and cost to custom order 82.5mm pistons vs going with the readily available 81.5mm ones?

[VMCB5S4]

Main reason to increase the bore size is so you can get bores nice and straight without any taper/out of roundness. Most guys want to keep as close to the stock bore as possible so the cylinder walls still have a lot of meat.

IMO I would use 2.7 heads with 2.8L cams, upgrade valve springs, and if budget allows some nice stock sized aftermarket valves.

As you already mentioned 650whp on pump gas is a hefty goal and I doubt that turbo will be up to the task. Would probably get pretty close depending on dyno but will have its tongue hanging out.

Thanks for sharing that. Sounds like whatever machine shop I go to will have to determine if boring is necessary based on the cylinder measurements they take. I have no clue what the history of this engine is. From what I was told, it came out of a non-modified Allroad.

I started off with the mindset of staying with 2.7 heads/2.8 intake cams but kept reading that in order to get enough flow for 8000 rpm you would need 2.8 heads/cams or 2.7 heads/2.8 intake cams with porting. Apparently if you stay with 2.7 heads/2.8 intake cams, you'll be limited to 7500rpm due to the smaller ports. The threads I've read have been all over the place and eventually lead into some arguments lol. Personally, I'd love to use what I have and grab some 2.8 intake cams if I can still achieve similar numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[zipdoa]

I also have a set of 2.8 heads that I'm gonna get rid of. Decided to go AZR

[VMCB5S4]

I also have a set of 2.8 heads that I'm gonna get rid of. Decided to go AZR

I'll keep this in mind. What was your reason for going with AZR heads?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[zipdoa]

I'll keep this in mind. What was your reason for going with AZR heads?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

I'm going to be using K04's and the AZR heads make the most sense for that application.

I'm looking to maximize spool and torque onset - the bigger exhaust ports on the 2.8 heads reduce velocity and spool will suffer.

I'm also of the opinion that Cosworth knew exactly what they were doing with the AZR and designed the heads/intake tract to maximize power and spool on K04's.

2.8 heads make sense with big turbos. I'm trying to build the ultimate K04 car - I'll be building the bottom end as well so torque onset can be maximized.

Plus I'm mating it all to a B7 0A3, so I think with the shorter gears it'll end up being very quick.

[VMCB5S4]

I'm going to be using K04's and the AZR heads make the most sense for that application.

I'm looking to maximize spool and torque onset - the bigger exhaust ports on the 2.8 heads reduce velocity and spool will suffer.

I'm also of the opinion that Cosworth knew exactly what they were doing with the AZR and designed the heads/intake tract to maximize power and spool on K04's.

2.8 heads make sense with big turbos. I'm trying to build the ultimate K04 car - I'll be building the bottom end as well so torque onset can be maximized.

Plus I'm mating it all to a B7 0A3, so I think with the shorter gears it'll end up being very quick.

That makes sense with the smaller exhaust ports and I would also share the same position on Cosworth. Sounds like you're setup will be very efficient and tons of fun to drive. Good luck!

I'm still not 100% sure on what heads I'll choose. Anyone else out there care to share some thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum