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Thread: TFSI Rough idle

  1. #1
    Junior Member Two Rings
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    TFSI Rough idle

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    Hello guys, Im looking for your opinion what could be the issue with my car.. i got audi a4 b8 2008 1.8 tfsi 118kw 160hp first gen cabb.. lately i got some kind of rough idle.. to me looks like some kind of misfire or something like this escpecially on cold start.. the most annoying thing to me is that there is no fault codes.. no vaccum leaks.. pcv replaced.. my guess is carbon buildups.. not sure yet.. i got car for 2 years (80k km) and i have never cleaned intake valves..

    Sooo.. im waiting for your opinions.. thank u in advance..

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings MongoMcG's Avatar
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    Double check the part number on your new PCV. Hopefully you stayed with Audi Genuine or Hengst OEM. This cat just went through similar symptoms. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14890563 It's a starting point.
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Two Rings
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    Pcv replaced 1 year ago.. rough idle/misfires started about 1 month ago.

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    Junior Member Two Rings
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    More opinion needed 🤔😊☺️

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    MonoMcG's comment still stands in this case. Did you replace with OEM or Hengst? Even so you could still have a defective part after a year. What is the part number on the PCV?

    Do you have any codes? A rough idle should throw a check engine light

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings RPMtech147's Avatar
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    Audi DMEs (ECU) are pretty picky about misfires, and if it even slightly detects a misfire, it'll pop a code pretty quick...in my experience.

    Check the motor mounts, it's free.

    Wasted motor mounts feel like "rough running", particularly @ idle. If you give it just a touch of gas and the "rough running" goes away, that's a clue to bad engine mounts, but the other way to check for sure is to have someone stall(throttle) the engine in gear with the brakes on, and a second person to check and see if the engine is trying to escape the engine bay...

    Not an Audi, but the exact same concept:


    When B8 engine mounts go bad, they vibrate excessively, on mine, it rattled the entire hood, wipers..it was bad, and it was much worse starting on a cold morning.
    B6 S4, B8 A4, 8P A3, and something, something.

  7. #7
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    There is no fault codes.. pcv number: vaico v10-2595..

  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings MongoMcG's Avatar
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    Vaico is not a bad company, but Hengst OEM and Audi Genuine PCV's seem to cause the fewest issues. That's not to say it is definitely the PCV, but signs point to it. A leak in the vacuum or boost plumbing could also trigger your symptoms. I also like RPMTech147's idea about failed motor mounts as a possible cause and his test for the condition.

    What is the condition of the crank case vacuum when the car is idling (is the oil filler cap hard to remove when the engine is idling)? Excessive crank case vacuum sucks down on that oil filler cap making it hard to remove - another sign of a bad PCV. When you remove the oil filler cap, does the engine run worse or stall (another indicator)? There are other tests for the PCV, including disconnecting the PCV-to-intake-manifold hose and temporarily plugging the hole on intake manifold side - search the forums and YouTube for this procedure and others. If you want to get deeper into the diagnostics you'll need a vacuum gauge and some time in the Factory Service Manuals and/or on the forums researching procedures.

    Replacement of a bad PCV is very easy. There are videos online that will walk you through, step by step, if you want to save a couple hundred bucks in labor costs.

    Dunno if it'll help, but here is info I found on the forum from member gcpogcpo that could provide better understanding of an oft misunderstood part:

    Below is an extract from the dealer as to how the system works which they sent to explain why there will be vacuum. The extract notes that the system is designed to reduce the vacuum from 700mbar to approx. 40mbar.

    Perhaps it is this part of the system not working properly and as such is not reducing vacuum as much as it should? At the moment we know there is vacuum but don't know how much?

    An objective test would be to measure the vacuum to see whether it is in line with the design spec. I have read of some people making a vacuum gauge that is connected to the oil cap and which can then accurately measure the vacuum.

    Has anyone else heard of such a device?

    Dealer extract :

    Crankcase breather system.
    It prevents vapours enriched with hydrocarbons (blow-by gases) reaching the outside atmosphere from the crankcase. The crankcase breather system consists of vent ducts in the cylinder block and cylinder head, the cyclonic oil separator and the crankcase breather heating.

    How it works:
    The blow-by gases in the crankcase are drawn in by the intake manifold vacuum via:
    - the vent ducts in the cylinder block,
    - the vent ducts in the cylinder head,
    - the cyclonic oil separator,
    - the pressure limiting valve and
    - the crankcase breather heating and then fed back into the intake manifold.

    Cyclonic oil separator
    The cyclonic oil separator is in the cylinder head cover. It has the task of separating oil from the blow-by gases in the crankcase and feeding it back to the oil system. A pressure control valve limits the intake manifold vacuum from approx. 700mbar to approx. 40mbar. It prevents the same vacuum forming as in the intake manifold and thus engine oil being drawn in via the crankcase breather or seals being damaged. To purge the crankcase, air is extracted from the clean air line (downstream of the air filter). The clean air then flows into the crankcase through a line connection on the fine oil separator.

    During the development of the system the following objectives were pursued:
    • Reduction in noise emission
    • Improved engine idling performance

    To reduce noise, a plastic coil was integrated into the pipe system. A high hydrocarbon concentration in the crankcase could impair the engine's idling performance. Idling performance is improved by the crankcase ventilation shut-off valve N548. This valve closes the vent line when the engine is idling if the oxygen sensor detects an excessively high hydrocarbon concentration from the positive crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation shut-off valve N548 is activated by a PWM signal ↗ from the engine control unit. It is fully open when de-energised ("fail-safe position” )

    So, check the PCV and engine mounts using these or other procedures you discover, and please update this thread so future users can gain insight from your experience.
    Last edited by MongoMcG; 02-11-2023 at 10:54 AM.
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings JLAllroad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MongoMcG View Post

    What is the condition of the crank case vacuum when the car is idling (is the oil filler cap hard to remove when the engine is idling)? Excessive crank case vacuum sucks down on that oil filler cap making it hard to remove - another sign of a bad PCV. When you remove the oil filler cap, does the engine run worse or stall (another indicator)
    At idle it absolutely should be hard to remove the oil cap as a properly working PCV is maintaining crankcase vacuum.

    Additionally, the motor should start to stumble when removing the oil cap (on a working PCV) because you just created a huge vacuum leak.

    I would suspect a bad PCV if either of these examples are not the case.

    Just note, there are two revision paths for PVC, white cap and black cap, the latter requiring an ECU update if choosing to “upgrade” to the white cap, otherwise starting and idling may be impacted.

    The white cap pulls 3x the vacuum compared to the black cap, this change was done in part to try and mitigate oil burning, which of course didn’t work.


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  10. #10
    Junior Member Two Rings
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    Looks like I found some kind of vacuum leak/clogged hose.. one end looks like the way it has to be but other end looks like in the past somebody tried to seal defective connector.. good: https://ibb.co/ypX4B6Y bad: https://ibb.co/nmDmdvV

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings MongoMcG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLAllroad View Post
    At idle it absolutely should be hard to remove the oil cap as a properly working PCV is maintaining crankcase vacuum.

    Additionally, the motor should start to stumble when removing the oil cap (on a working PCV) because you just created a huge vacuum leak.
    Thanks, JL, for correcting. I was under the impression that a failed PCV can cause excessive crank case vacuum.
    Last edited by MongoMcG; 02-11-2023 at 03:51 PM.
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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings JLAllroad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MongoMcG View Post
    Thanks, JL, for correcting. I was under the impression that a failed PCV can cause excessive crank case vacuum.
    It can, under boost, it serves two functions, crankcase pressure/vacuum regulation and oil separator. A failed PCV can blow your seals by pressurizing your crankcase.


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