Ultrasport Values

[CycloSteve]

Currently in "discussions" with my insurance company regarding the value of my 2005 USP. The car is a 2005 1.8T, Manual 6 speed, 200k, white, Bi-Xenon, Bose, Winter Pack, very clean interior, with excellent bodywork and paint (prior to the accident). The car recently had the T-Belt done, all hoses replaced, and was in excellent running condition (no leaks, no dreaded CEL).

Their comps are all non-USP, which is no surprise, with a whopping $239 added on for the USP. Not acceptable. Trying to find sales prices is not simple, as so few were built, and fewer are for sale. I am up against their "system", CCC, which is fundamentally flawed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Ozone510]

To be honest, with that many miles, any ultrasport would be about the same price as any base model. Almost anything you find with this many miles won't be in any condition you had it in, even with timing belt, they won't factor in any value you added to it. What you can do is buy it back and part it out, try your best to break even, but the insurance will likely not budge with the added value they gave you for the package considering it was a dealer option for like $3K when NEW. So you can't dock them much for the money they gave you on top.

Check out this item on OfferUp. https://offerup.co/3aIgOpmxRwb

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[EuroxS4]

It's a 17 year old vehicle that was mass produced. In my eyes they weren't anything to rave about. If it was a s4 then yeah but USP, apart from different front and rear valence, wheels, and door blades there wasn't anything special about them. As you can spec out a a4 with most of the same options.

[CycloSteve]

It's a 17 year old vehicle that was mass produced. In my eyes they weren't anything to rave about. If it was a s4 then yeah but USP, apart from different front and rear valence, wheels, and door blades there wasn't anything special about them. As you can spec out a a4 with most of the same options.

You realize that there were more S4's produced than USP's, yes?

Typically what I have found is that the USP's are going for $10k + or -, and the box-stock base are under $5k. The insurance company will not accept private sales and actual auction sales info, which is what a layman can typically find. Contrary to typical thought, I am not trying to angle for more money in a settlement, simply working to keep the title unbranded, as their valuation is low (~$5k), and repair estimate too high (<$5k).

The USP on offerup definitely needs work and much more of a candidate for parting-out.

[EuroxS4]

You realize that there were more S4's produced than USP's, yes?

Typically what I have found is that the USP's are going for $10k + or -, and the box-stock base are under $5k. The insurance company will not accept private sales and actual auction sales info, which is what a layman can typically find. Contrary to typical thought, I am not trying to angle for more money in a settlement, simply working to keep the title unbranded, as their valuation is low (~$5k), and repair estimate too high (<$5k).

The USP on offerup definitely needs work and much more of a candidate for parting-out.

Just because fewer were made does not mean they are desirable. I rather have a bone stock s4 than a USP, and I absolutely hate that fucking garbage v8. It comes down to what the actual vehicle is... it's a a4 with a trim package. So that being
said this is why they don't base their assessment based on private sales. As anyone can ask 10grand for a car, the question is how long will they have to wait to get it when you can get a s4 for the same money. All a4 values are low because they are old aging vehicles.

[Ozone510]

You realize that there were more S4's produced than USP's, yes?

Typically what I have found is that the USP's are going for $10k + or -, and the box-stock base are under $5k. The insurance company will not accept private sales and actual auction sales info, which is what a layman can typically find. Contrary to typical thought, I am not trying to angle for more money in a settlement, simply working to keep the title unbranded, as their valuation is low (~$5k), and repair estimate too high (<$5k).

The USP on offerup definitely needs work and much more of a candidate for parting-out.

If it were an Avant, yeah I'd agree with you, especially a manual. But let's be honest, it's just a trim package that anyone can replicate with less than a thousand dollars. Please show me any USP with 200K fetching $10K+.

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[CycloSteve]

Just because fewer were made does not mean they are desirable. I rather have a bone stock s4 than a USP, and I absolutely hate that fucking garbage v8. It comes down to what the actual vehicle is... it's a a4 with a trim package. So that being
said this is why they don't base their assessment based on private sales. As anyone can ask 10grand for a car, the question is how long will they have to wait to get it when you can get a s4 for the same money. All a4 values are low because they are old aging vehicles.

S4 had the V8, USP have the 1.8T, though some were 3.0.

[CycloSteve]

If it were an Avant, yeah I'd agree with you, especially a manual. But let's be honest, it's just a trim package that anyone can replicate with less than a thousand dollars. Please show me any USP with 200K fetching $10K+.

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A STI is just an Impreza, Z28 is just a Camaro, R/T Hellcat is just a Challenger. All of which are trim packages which set them apart from their base models and are valued accordingly.

How many USP's can you find for sale in the US at any price or mileage right now, that is the point. I found a whopping seven which sold in the US over the past two years, with an average mileage of 125,825 and $10,975. I did not state that I was finding 200k cars selling for that amount. Would you consider a low-ball offer from your insurance if they were providing comps which were no where optioned nor in the condition of your vehicle for half of fair-market-value? You undestand that mileage deductions are not that high, right?

Not all mileage is the same, and how a car was treated and maintained makes a huge difference. I have multiple vehicles which have north of 200k on the clock and they are in better condition mechanically and cosmetically than most out there with 100k on them.

[Ozone510]

A STI is just an Impreza, Z28 is just a Camaro, R/T Hellcat is just a Challenger. All of which are trim packages which set them apart from their base models and are valued accordingly.

How many USP's can you find for sale in the US at any price or mileage right now, that is the point. I found a whopping seven which sold in the US over the past two years, with an average mileage of 125,825 and $10,975. I did not state that I was finding 200k cars selling for that amount. Would you consider a low-ball offer from your insurance if they were providing comps which were no where optioned nor in the condition of your vehicle for half of fair-market-value? You undestand that mileage deductions are not that high, right?

Not all mileage is the same, and how a car was treated and maintained makes a huge difference. I have multiple vehicles which have north of 200k on the clock and they are in better condition mechanically and cosmetically than most out there with 100k on them.

Also, hope you understand that each of those trims are all entirely different power trains, which the USP, is sadly not. Not ragging on th car, just trying to keep things with a pinch of reality. I've seen loads of USP sell in the bay area, we got loads of em here, and they all never go above $10K for well sorted lower mileage examples. Only avants with manuals demand that high of a price, because they are significantly more than "just an appearance package".

Sorry Cyclo, but a $10K USP with anything above 100K isn't going to happen unless it has that nice fifth door and six speeds. If it does, I'll eat my shorts.

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[CycloSteve]

@ozone510, if you would like to send comps, great, please send them. This thread was started to find actual recent or current USP comps, good, bad or indifferent. What has been offered so far has been no more than your opinion about the USP, when I am looking for facts which are useful in an insurance claim.

[Ozone510]

@ozone510, if you would like to send comps, great, please send them. This thread was started to find actual recent or current USP comps, good, bad or indifferent. What has been offered so far has been no more than your opinion about the USP, when I am looking for facts which are useful in an insurance claim.

Don't forget about that link I sent you lol

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[CycloSteve]

Don't forget about that link I sent you lol

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LOL, for a broken and damaged vehicle with what appears to be a beat up interior, headlight out of alignment, etc. If the Bay Area is so awash with USP's for sale why aren't there any on Craigslist? I have looked there daily for the past four weeks, and nada. If you find some, feel free to pass them on.

[Mike Tries]

Is this what you're looking for? 200,000-ish miles USP

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KYj...nt-18t-quattro

$5,000 is what that sold for, but that was 2 years ago at the height of the used car insanity. I would expect less today as prices are down and two more years have passed.

"Rare" is one of those words that gets used too frequently in the car world. Ask any Viper owner--"my car is one of 27 made with snale skin green (typo here, but I think it's funny so I'm leaving it) paint and gray interior in 2003, so it's rare." Well, yeah, they made 900 cars that year, so every customer got a rare combination. It doesn't mean that one is worth more than the others. Car companies want you to pay them more, so they come out with "limited production" versions, but if it is just a trim package, it shouldn't bring that much value later on as a used car.

[EuroxS4]

S4 had the V8, USP have the 1.8T, though some were 3.0.

I'm well aware what engine's the USP's came with trust me.

[kwilson]

If you are going to argue that an A4 with different bumpers is worth more than others, what's next? Valuation based on paint color?

To the general public and insurance companies, they are just old A4s. Worth next to nothing.

[Kevin C]

If you are going to argue that an A4 with different bumpers is worth more than others, what's next? Valuation based on paint color?

To the general public and insurance companies, they are just old A4s. Worth next to nothing.

Actually the USP trim package is sought after, so yes they are worth more. The most desirable is a USP Avant six speed 1.8T. I would put the sedan as second. What matters is that some people will pay a premium for one. Same thing goes for cars with matching numbers vs I made my own. This is not news.

[EuroxS4]

Actually the USP trim package is sought after, so yes they are worth more. The most desirable is a USP Avant six speed 1.8T. I would put the sedan as second. What matters is that some people will pay a premium for one. Same thing goes for cars with matching numbers vs I made my own. This is not news.

I would rather buy a s4 avant than a USP and swap the engine out. S4 just had better options. Worth more than what a base a4? At the end of the day it's a a4. You may find someone that's willing to pay more but its a small market and just because 1 person is willing to give up their first born for a usp avant doesnt mean everyone else will.

[kwilson]

Actually the USP trim package is sought after, so yes they are worth more. The most desirable is a USP Avant six speed 1.8T. I would put the sedan as second. What matters is that some people will pay a premium for one. Same thing goes for cars with matching numbers vs I made my own. This is not news.

No doubt that the USP trim is desirable to a relative handful of enthusiasts. But this discussion started out as insurance company valuations. They just simply are not going to assign an increased value (beyond the stated $239) to a USP. In the same way, they do not pay out more for specific paint colors. I wish they did, because that would make my 1:1 factory 2005 Noggy A4 worth a lot more.

Insurance valuations are usually based on age of vehicle and mileage. Unless you get into collector car assigned value type insurance. Once these get above 200K miles, they are likely pretty much worthless. So I dropped my collision and comprehensive coverage.

[road_tripper]

The insurance company will not accept private sales and actual auction sales info

what do they use for valuation then? KBB? no used car dealer is going to provide sales pricing...

[road_tripper]

OP, I don't know the insurance regulations in your state, but in Nevada, the insurance company is required to give an offer within 30 days. In my case, I was sideswiped on the freeway and the insurance agent was wasting time waiting for more info from the other drivers. After 30 days I filed a complaint on the state's dept. of insurance web site, and within an hour I got a call from the insurance company (not from the adjuster), and she did a bit of research and found some expensive 6-speed 3.0s for comps and gave me a very reasonable offer. She also said that branded titles don't really affect valuation on old cars. My title has 'rebuilt' on it twice, 2016 and 2021. So my 6-speed 3.0 with 300,000+ miles with a branded title, I still got over $3K from the insurance company.

YMMV

[Kevin C]

No doubt that the USP trim is desirable to a relative handful of enthusiasts. But this discussion started out as insurance company valuations. They just simply are not going to assign an increased value (beyond the stated $239) to a USP. In the same way, they do not pay out more for specific paint colors. I wish they did, because that would make my 1:1 factory 2005 Noggy A4 worth a lot more.

Insurance valuations are usually based on age of vehicle and mileage. Unless you get into collector car assigned value type insurance. Once these get above 200K miles, they are likely pretty much worthless. So I dropped my collision and comprehensive coverage.

Rules do vary , however if your collecting from the other company the responsibility is to make you whole again. If your collecting from your own company and you have a modified car cover those mods may be problematic. Legally, they are responsible to put you back to where you were before the incident (stock vehicle).

I have been through this a few times before. In CA I was offered a silly low value for my old SUV, like $1200. I didn't take it, and asked to have a independent appraiser (they were legally required to get one, CA law). The adjuster hemmed and hawed and accused me of trying to rip them off. I said I just wanted to have my replacement cost covered. The appraisal came in at $7000. FYI, it had 240,000 miles but was very clean.

Laws vary on comparables, But $240 seems really low. I can easily see more like an extra $800 to $1500 for a clean car. Your loss amount should be what it will cost to replace your car.

[CycloSteve]

what do they use for valuation then? KBB? no used car dealer is going to provide sales pricing...

Most insurance companies use CCC, which has a "proprietary algorithm" which uses data they collect from skimming internet sales. In some cases they call dealers and ask what is the lowest price they would accept. Neither is representative of actual sales amounts, and they will not share the details of the vehicles beyond a checklist of options, nor the adjustments the algorithm makes. CCC and several insurance companies have been named and lost suits due to this "smoke and mirrors" practice which tilts the scales towards low-ball offerers. See Buratovich vs. Farmers Insurance Exchange and Farmers Insurance Co. of Arizona and CCC Information Services Inc.

In the end, your insurance company is in the business to payout the least amount possible, and most people do not question the underlying data, which in many cases is flawed or incomplete. I believe in actual data-driven decisions with real comparable data, not some vague computer-driven "system" which is over-relied upon as the gospel.

So, back on topic, please send any comps you know of, high, low, whatever. @Mike Tries, thank you, someone got a good deal on that one, and it will go on the list I am preparing.

[Gin+]

FWIW; In my mind, a clean 100k+ A4 USP would be worth about $7500. I'm not an Avant guy so those prices are wacko if you ask me.

[oaybar007]

Currently in "discussions" with my insurance company regarding the value of my 2005 USP. The car is a 2005 1.8T, Manual 6 speed, 200k, white, Bi-Xenon, Bose, Winter Pack, very clean interior, with excellent bodywork and paint (prior to the accident). The car recently had the T-Belt done, all hoses replaced, and was in excellent running condition (no leaks, no dreaded CEL).

Their comps are all non-USP, which is no surprise, with a whopping $239 added on for the USP. Not acceptable. Trying to find sales prices is not simple, as so few were built, and fewer are for sale. I am up against their "system", CCC, which is fundamentally flawed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Look into an agreed value policy. That's what I maintain on my USP with my insurer. It will cost a little more in premiums but you essentially agree on the value of the property and justify it within reason. Car values in the event of a loss are never in our favor as policy holders. Not like agreed value is a good value, but at least you can maintain a value YOU agree with. You can also look into stated value, which is also a decent consideration.

Here's some general info on the concept.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/agreed-value-car-insurance

[Turbo510]

Once these get above 200K miles, they are likely pretty much worthless. So I dropped my collision and comprehensive coverage.

My 2005 has the 3.0 upgrades; sport shocks and lower ride height, trunk lid deflector, fender lips, but is not a USP. It looks pretty good and runs really well. But the reality is that at 277,000 miles, it's "pretty much worthless".

[EuroxS4]

My 2005 has the 3.0 upgrades; sport shocks and lower ride height, trunk lid deflector, fender lips, but is not a USP. It looks pretty good and runs really well. But the reality is that at 277,000 miles, it's "pretty much worthless".

I would have to disagree once they get to 500k miles they are pretty much worthless. I have518k miles on my avant that is a parts car and will be scrapped in the coming months.

[Turbo510]

"Pretty much worthless" is not literal (not yet anyway). A maintained A4 with an automatic trans (fewer and fewer potential buyers can drive manual) can of course find a new owner. I just wouldn't expect much more than $2K with its mileage.

[86turbodsl]

OP, i love the USP as much as ANYBODY on this forum, but my 04 USP 3.0 m/t was 10K like 10 years ago @100K. USP parts are all over facebook marketplace, i buy them all the time as spares. Heck, i bought a full set of USP wheels yesterday for 150 bucks. Just because the car is rare, doesn't mean the asking price is a lot higher. I think you just need to face reality that the insurance company is not going to give you what you think you are owed. Sorry.

[Ozone510]

OP, i love the USP as much as ANYBODY on this forum, but my 04 USP 3.0 m/t was 10K like 10 years ago @100K. USP parts are all over facebook marketplace, i buy them all the time as spares. Heck, i bought a full set of USP wheels yesterday for 150 bucks. Just because the car is rare, doesn't mean the asking price is a lot higher. I think you just need to face reality that the insurance company is not going to give you what you think you are owed. Sorry.

I'd be interested in an update to how this ended on OPs end. Could be useful for anyone else that has to go through this.

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[shurur9]

Insurance companies play that game a lot..especially progressive.

Our 330xi was compared to prices for local 325i...not the bluebook.
They totalled the car and we could not buy it back.
Then I caught the salvage yard trying to sell it as a complete restoration project..."manager's special."

It didn't work for them, because I told them that I saw the ad.
Car is still being parted out...

[Fast4esT]

I’m always looking for usp bumpers and never see them used for sale

[CJM_RVA]

A few days late to this thread but I also wonder how it turned out for the OP. My example:

'05 1.8t Quattro Avant USP, 111k miles, auto, sunroof but no other notable options. Timing belt done within last 5k miles. A few issues (wiper linkage seized, no heat, minor oil leak(s)) but a solid driver. Paid 5100 in December 2021.

Some days I think I got an awesome deal, despite not being 6mt and the issues, 5100 for a USP Avant seems low. The seller had it listed as an S-Line, which would be correct for Europe, but I had to figure out that it actually was USP which may have worked in my favor. Other days I question having paid what I did for a car with a never ending procession of minor issues, but I guess that's any B6. At the end of the day I'm happy with it though. Comps are hard, true... There is a non-USP 1.8t Avant near me listed on FB Marketplace right now, 140k for $3500. That seems fair to good though the ad is light on info. There's also a very nice 6mt USP sedan up in one of the FB B6 groups, but seller wants to trade and hasn't attached a price. Unfortunately it's one of those specs that is worth real money to the right buyer, but something like an insurance algorithm isn't going to account for that. In any event $10k is way high unless you're talking about a 6mt Avant in great condition with <150k miles, and even then it's a stretch. Yeah you'll see some on BaT that have gone for over that but prices there have no relation to the real world.

[JLAllroad]

I was able to get over $7k in July 2020 for my 2 owner, ‘04 1.8T man with 210k. I bought CPO in ‘05 with 1500 miles on it. First offer was $2500, I had extensive service history and over 200 pages of documentation, I sent 5 of the largest maintenance/upgrades. Second offer $3500. As others have stated, comps are near impossible to come by, this actually speaks to the exclusivity. I ended up finding a BAT listing from the past year and asked where I could send the other 195 pages of documentation. Third offer was over $7k after deductible. They were paying me to go away for fear that I could prove that it was gold plated.

Unfortunately it met with an elk, otherwise it would still be running.

IMG_0296.jpg


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[Jakal]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ibextid=6ojiHh Not really of any help, but I saw this insane listing the other day. Surely a nice car, but yikes.

[86turbodsl]

24,500 and not even any interior photos???

[JLAllroad]

And the 3.0 is not a desirable combination, even though Audi wanted it to be.


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[CJM_RVA]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ibextid=6ojiHh Not really of any help, but I saw this insane listing the other day. Surely a nice car, but yikes.

And it's not even an Avant.

[Wet0willy01]

Wow, a USP with less miles than me. Impressive.

This thread is why my USP is covered by a specialty insurance, with a declared valve set by me.

[Turbo510]

And the 3.0 is not a desirable combination, even though Audi wanted it to be.

I expect that Audi wants every combination to be desirable, for the sake of profits. The standard 1.8T Quattro's MSRP was around $27K, and the 3.0's about $34K, so they consequently sold lots more of the less expensive 4-cylinder cars.

[EuroxS4]

I expect that Audi wants every combination to be desirable, for the sake of profits. The standard 1.8T Quattro's MSRP was around $27K, and the 3.0's about $34K, so they consequently sold lots more of the less expensive 4-cylinder cars.

Ill take that 4 banger turbo all day baby rather than that 6 cylinder boat anchor. I'm pretty sure they sold less 3.slow's. Not to mention the issues they had and maintnance costs with the 3.slow's were probably twice as much as the 1.8T. I think USP's with 3.0 were rare but in my opinion that didn't make them worth more, Even when I was looking to purchase the minute I knew it had a 3.slow I knew i'd be doing 1 of two things, gutting it for parts or swapping a different engine into it. To me if it's got a 3.slow you have to pay me to take it from you even after that ill probably strip her down for parts and make sure the engine never runs again.