Mobil 1 Vs. Castrol Edge 5w40?

[redrackham17]

My B8.5 (CPMB Quattro 0BK) has over 200,000 miles on it. It isn't the prettiest car in this forum but it serves me great. However, I recently fell down a rabbit hole on YouTube and found a bunch of videos regarding GDI Engines, LSPI, and engine oil certifications such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCLeKPAW5wI

My car itself has recently developed an LSPI problem; It was slight last winter, went away during the summer, but is now back in full force this winter. I have been running Castrol Edge 5w40 religiously with this car. However, after watching this video and reading into it, I see that it might be worth it to use an API SN Plus or GF-6 rated oil. Looking on the websites, I noticed that nowhere in Castrol's site or its tech sheet for Castrol Edge 5w40 does it say that it's API SN Plus or GF6 rated. Only that it's API SN. However, on Mobil 1's site, it clearly says that its 5w40 is API SN Plus rated, and I've read in other publications that most Mobil 1 oils now meet GF6 specs. Am I believing in snake oil, or would it be a good idea to switch from Castrol to Mobil 1 for my next oil change? I appreciate anyone chiming in on this.

[a4audi4fun]

You've got to 200,000 miles using Castrol 5W-40. What do you realistically expect to see by switching oil at this time? Was the SN Plus or GF6 standard around when your car was built? What would those spec specifically do for your now 200,000 mile engine. If you haven't done so already one of the easiest things you could do is a walnut shell carbon clean of the intake manifold. All GDI engines that did not have the secondary injection port are prone to carbon buildup. FWIW on my 2008 B7 Avant 2.0T, a carbon clean at around 195,000 km has bought my engine performance back to "like new".

[Spawne32]

How do you know you have a LSPI problem?

[Smac770]

Castrol Edge 5w-30 is SN/SN+/SP & GF-6A
Castrol Edge Extended Performance 5w-30 is SN/SN+/SP & GF-6A
Castrol Edge High Mileage is 5w-30 is SN/SN+/SP & GF-6A

Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 (502) is SL
Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 (504) is SP
Castrol Edge Euro 5w-40 (502), the only Castrol Edge in 5w-40, is SN/CF (the CF refers to the diesel application, like 504/507)

So seems to be something with the Euro stuff, which isn't too surprising. API seems to be more a US manufacturers' concern (API being American Petroleum Institute), while European manufacturers seem to care more about ACEA (being European Automobile Manufacturers Association). ILSAC is International Lubricant Specialist Advisory Committee. API SP is based on ILSAC GF-6.

Looks like SN+ came in starting 2018, GF-6A and SP around mid 2020.

In the API hierarchy, SP would be the way to go. So Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 (504) would suffice. https://news.kixxoil.com/your-compre...ide-to-api-sp/

Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 (504, SP) vs Mobil One FS 5w-40 (502, SP)? Hard to say. It won't change anything if you don't have a problem to adjust. And it seems LSPI is undetectable until something is broken. Do it as a preventive action? Sure.

But I wonder about the impact depending on what formulation they went with to meet Sequence IX testing.
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2020-01-1424/
https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazi...-for-aged-oil/

I'm at 247k miles, been using Edge Euro 5w-40 all that time, don't have any tune (hell, don't even have a correctly boosting turbo), and have predictable economy and consumption, so I don't see a need to change anything at the moment.

[silver_tt]

I can't remember if you replaced all your injectors, if not start with running a fuel additive with PEA (Techron, etc). An oil analysis using gas chromatography and FTIR for fuel dilution testing would also be helpful to know how high your fuel dilution is.

An oil like DI40 inherently holds less fuel in suspension. DI40 doesn't use magnesium as referenced by the SAE article but rather brings the Calcium level down:
DI40_VirginSample.png

Your fuel dilution should be well under 2%. Mine is always around 1.3% (even at 5K OCIs) which is very low for a direct injection engine. You can also tell the dilution is very low because the oil literally hasn't sheared a single bit (adding fuel will thin the oil) -- holding in at 14.3 cSt after 5K miles:
Screenshot 2022-10-21 125606.jpg

[Smac770]

Is there a database of these type of analysis of various oils new so they can be compared regarding their compositions?

[Theiceman]

yippee , an oil thread..

[silver_tt]

Yes, For virgin oil sample/composition a few are listed on Speediagnostix (owned by Lake Speed in that video) but they have many more that can be requested that aren't on the website:
https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis

I have a 56 page PDF with a bunch of them but for some reason it won't let me upload it here eventhough the Manage Attachments says: "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip"

[Smac770]

No, the site only takes images. You'd have to throw it on dropbox or something and link it.

[silver_tt]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5hhlmjjyu...mples.pdf?dl=0

[redrackham17]

I'm at 247k miles, been using Edge Euro 5w-40 all that time, don't have any tune (hell, don't even have a correctly boosting turbo), and have predictable economy and consumption, so I don't see a need to change anything at the moment.

I am in the same boat as you. No tune and an intermittent P0299 but I'm too broke to throw in a new turbo and the car is running fine, at 203,000 and climbing with Castrol 5w40. I think I'm gonna switch to Mobil 1 5w40. Even if it is the American companies more focused on LSPI, the fact of the matter is SN+ and GF6 seem to be scientifically proven better-formulated oils for this type of engine: GDI, turbo, small with high compression, tendency to develop carbon deposits and fuel dilution more than larger motors. As you've pointed out, Castrol 5w40 is only SN/CF. Seeing that the Mobil 1 still meets VW 502 spec, and it's SN Plus, I don't see why not to try it.

[redrackham17]

You've got to 200,000 miles using Castrol 5W-40. What do you realistically expect to see by switching oil at this time? Was the SN Plus or GF6 standard around when your car was built? What would those spec specifically do for your now 200,000 mile engine. If you haven't done so already one of the easiest things you could do is a walnut shell carbon clean of the intake manifold. All GDI engines that did not have the secondary injection port are prone to carbon buildup. FWIW on my 2008 B7 Avant 2.0T, a carbon clean at around 195,000 km has bought my engine performance back to "like new".

Car got a carbon cleaning at 160k. Also checked the valves and cylinder heads a couple of months ago when doing injectors and a week ago doing spark plugs. Nothing crazy and definitely didn't warrant another carbon cleaning. It's got 4 new injectors, 4 new plugs, 10k mile old OEM coils, a brand new Hitachi high pressure fuel pump with the latest design cam follower, and I just put in a new OEM Hengst pcv a couple of days ago. Still hear light pinging at low speeds (1400 to 2400 rpm) when the car is fully warmed up and I'm driving next to parked cars or a wall with light throttle. Almost systematically goes away with more throttle or a downshift.

[redrackham17]

I can't remember if you replaced all your injectors, if not start with running a fuel additive with PEA (Techron, etc).

Not to be redundant but 4 new oem injectors, 4 new ngk plugs, a new oem hpfp, newest cam follower for it, recent oem coils. No check engine light, but after a few hundred miles, my oil smells a little too much like gas, and when I change my oil every 2500, it's pitch black. I have no check engine light and no stored codes ever since they were cleared 1500 miles ago after the new injectors. Old ones were misfiring. When I took the coils out, they were spick and span. No deposits and no oil on them. Same with spark plugs except for the electrode itself which looked terrible. I'm running a can of Liqui Moly DI Jectron with my next tank of 93 (says it has the highest number of PEAs and is formulated especially for DI engines in comparison to their regular Jectron?).

[silver_tt]

Even changing my oil every 3K miles, the oil goes in looking like water and still comes out black as India ink -- this is direct injection unfortunately.

If the oil smells like gas especially after a few hundred miles it obviously sounds like you have fuel dilution but an actual test would verify that and let you know how bad it is.

[a4audi4fun]

Still hear light pinging at low speeds (1400 to 2400 rpm) when the car is fully warmed up and I'm driving next to parked cars or a wall with light throttle. Almost systematically goes away with more throttle or a downshift.

IMO - ping with light throttle means you are in the wrong gear or have bad fuel. Then again I have manual transmission so it feels more natural to be choosing the gear I need to be in . All your other maintenance seems to have addressed related possible problem areas. I don't think the 2.0T likes being below 2000 rpm anyway, though that didn't ever seem to be a concern with the previous V6 engines I had.

[redrackham17]

IMO - ping with light throttle means you are in the wrong gear or have bad fuel. I don't think the 2.0T likes being below 2000 rpm anyway, though that didn't ever seem to be a concern with the previous V6 engines I had.

You're right, and this car has had a bad past year of abuse. I get a really severe knee injury in a basketball game in October of 2021, and it was my freshman year of college. Because of this, I couldn't walk more than a few feet for months after the injury and months again after the surgery for it, and I had to drive short distances, like a few blocks or a mile at max, to get to and from my classes and my dorm. I knew it was terrible for the car but I didn't have any other options for travel. Plus, I live in NYC when I'm away from college, where an hour of stop and go traffic is an everyday occurrence. i'm wondering if I just need to drive it like I stole it for a while... the car spends almost all its time in 2nd or 3rd gear and under 2500 rpm as I've slowly driven around the city. I've got a 120 mile trip on the freeway coming up when I go back to college on Wednesday so I'll see if it's happier then.

[silver_tt]

I don't think that's the reason. City driving isn't good for fuel dilution but I lived in NYC too and my car spent the first 50K miles of its life there driving like that basically never getting on the highway just driving around Manhattan and Brooklyn.

[redrackham17]

I don't think that's the reason. City driving isn't good for fuel dilution but I lived in NYC too and my car spent the first 50K miles of its life there driving like that basically never getting on the highway just driving around Manhattan and Brooklyn.

Over the last few weeks I've tried to stay away from driving the car local distances and only took it out on the highway. The thing that confuses me is I don't hear the pinging until like 20 minutes into driving. The other day I let it idle down, drove to the nearest entrance ramp, got on the Grand Central Parkway for 15 minutes, got off, drove back home on local roads, and in the last 10 blocks of this half hour drive, the pinging slowly came back. Surely the engine was not fully warmed up on the highway for all that driving, and only got hot enough for pre-detonation after 25 minutes of driving the car? Temp gage on the dash was normal temp for the whole drive after about 4 minutes warming up.

[silver_tt]

So it only ping when the engine is hot correct? When you changed the spark plugs you didn't happen to drop a borescope in there to see the cylinders did you? I wonder if you have build up in the cylinder or on the crown of the piston from high oil consumption.

[redrackham17]

Dropped the boroscope in during the spark plug job. Wasn't too much carbon buildup I could see; I've looked at dozens of videos and stuff of other cars that looked much worse. Even my buddy's 2016 Q5 looked way worse and that thing runs fine. Anyways, not to distract from the focus of the thread; After looking at that video and all the tech sheets and tests and stuff that you guys included above, I'm switching to Mobil 1. Castrol got me this far, but the car is getting old, and if the new oil is made to help it avoid fuel dilution, pinging and LSPI, etc. then it might be time to make a change to the Mobil1 oil. Not to mention, it appears that this dude Lake Speed highly recommends it and he seems to have dedicated his entire life to stopping pinging and LSPI lmao

[RPMtech147]

yippee , an oil thread..

lol, that's kind of where I'm at. I can't recall ever having an issue with anything that was using a quality oil, and the weight was at least close-ish.

Now, 0w-20 in a car with 200,000 miles...probably not a good idea. 20w/50 on a brand new car, in the middle of a snowy winter, also probably not a good idea.

[Nano909]

I've been using Castrol 0-40 in 115 degree weather, with 100's of 1/4 mile launches on a full balls E40 K04 tune and a Boss500. My car has withstood real abuse, unlike most of the parking lot queens these other members have. I report zero issues with that oil.

[silver_tt]

Dropped the boroscope in during the spark plug job. Wasn't too much carbon buildup I could see; I've looked at dozens of videos and stuff of other cars that looked much worse. Even my buddy's 2016 Q5 looked way worse and that thing runs fine. Anyways, not to distract from the focus of the thread; After looking at that video and all the tech sheets and tests and stuff that you guys included above, I'm switching to Mobil 1. Castrol got me this far, but the car is getting old, and if the new oil is made to help it avoid fuel dilution, pinging and LSPI, etc. then it might be time to make a change to the Mobil1 oil. Not to mention, it appears that this dude Lake Speed highly recommends it and he seems to have dedicated his entire life to stopping pinging and LSPI lmao

Lake would recommend Driven DI40, not Mobil 1…..

[redrackham17]

Lake would recommend Driven DI40, not Mobil 1…..

https://drivenracingoil.com/i-304977...motor-oil.html

No way I'm paying $18 a quart dawg idc what Lake says then nvm

[silver_tt]

Hah, come on, you're living in NYC..... you can't even get a cocktail at a rooftop bar in lower Manhattan for $18 ;)

In all seriousness, I don't care at all which oil you run but I always have to laugh when I read comments like this. This engine only takes 5 quarts though and in racing there is an old saying "oil is cheap, engines are expensive".......

No matter what, if you changed the oil and it's pining a couple hundred miles later something else is going on that high octane fuel and different oil alone isn't going to fix. Something is causing your cylinders to get too hot which isn't causing low speed preignition but is just straight up causing preignition.