Upper Pinch bolt

[mrg_B8TFSi]

Hello well it’s time to replace my upper and lower control arms on my A4, I notice there is a lot of play and the car isn’t tracking tight as I know it should be. I did put it up and noticed the bushings are cracked and separating on the uppers and lower rear on the passenger side. I have the entire Meyle HD kit and am gonna do both sides including the sway bars. However, after removing the passenger side upper pinch bolt nut (pinch bolt holds the upper ball joints into the spindle) the bolt is frozen/seized..etc I can’t budge it, although interestingly it’s clean the threads look brand new but it’s original and this car has seen its share of salt.. I’ve had it soaking in PB blaster and have been hammering the bolt (brass hammer) to try to shock load the penetrating oil into the bolt. I’m not getting the bolt to turn at all.. gonna have to put heat to it. My question is has anyone had difficulty in this pinch bolt removal? I’m wondering if excessive heat to the aluminum spindle will cause any damage to its structural integrity? I know many videos do show and use Mapp gas, which is what I’m about to use next, and hopefully I can get the bolt to spin so I can punch it out. Anyone ever had to heat the spindle for this? How’d it work out? I know I’m not gonna bang on that aluminum which would result in cracking it, but hopefully heat work crack it. Thanks.


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[LifetimeAudi]

We have plenty of spindles in stock, lifetime part replacement warranty.

[WHT13AR]

I used MAPP heat and worked the head of the bolt while heating. Put a crap nut on the end of the bolt to hit it. Dont hit it too hard, you can damage other parts. Also, when heating, heat the bottom, away from the upper joints so you dont melt the boots. For me, it eventually came out enough to use an air chisel on the underside of the bolt head and it finally worked out. Be sure not to try and turn the bolt more than it wants to, you could break the head off and be in bad shape.

There are a couple of different tools you can get to push it out easily. One is like $500 and works like a little press. The other, not sure on price, is a drill guide to drill the bolt and then drive it out with a drift. If you're patient, you can get it out of there with standard hand tools and just replace the bolt.

[rj124104]

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben...IaAuQIEALw_wcB

[mrg_B8TFSi]

I used MAPP heat and worked the head of the bolt while heating. Put a crap nut on the end of the bolt to hit it. Dont hit it too hard, you can damage other parts. Also, when heating, heat the bottom, away from the upper joints so you dont melt the boots. For me, it eventually came out enough to use an air chisel on the underside of the bolt head and it finally worked out. Be sure not to try and turn the bolt more than it wants to, you could break the head off and be in bad shape.

There are a couple of different tools you can get to push it out easily. One is like $500 and works like a little press. The other, not sure on price, is a drill guide to drill the bolt and then drive it out with a drift. If you're patient, you can get it out of there with standard hand tools and just replace the bolt.

Thanks .. yeah gonna replace all the hardware I have everything and my plan was to put the heat to it and work the 16mm head of the bolt to get it turning.. then with the old head on the bolt will tap it to get the bolt moving backwards and eventually using a drift to punch it out. I do t want to drill as I fear I could go into the spindle.. oh I don’t care about the ball joint boots as I know those will get toasted like a marshmallow they’re getting replaced.. thanks good advice


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[mrg_B8TFSi]

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben...IaAuQIEALw_wcB

I’ll look into this


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[jbain2]

Replacing an upper pinch bolt on an Audi is a right of passage. On multiple platforms I have encountered the “stuck” pinch bolt.

I too, use MAPP gas for the tough cases and have the schwaben tool from ECS.


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[B8Buckeye]

Good luck to you. I just had the complete Meyle control arm kit installed with upgraded urethane inserts. I also had ECS coilovers installed at the same time. After 105k miles, the original suspension was showing its age. The upgrades made a HUGE difference in steering and suspension feel - like a new car.

[WHT13AR]

Rear shock lower bolt is a monster too. Broke one, not looking forward to the other.

[rj124104]

Rear shock lower bolt is a monster too. Broke one, not looking forward to the other.

How do you break a bolt that large?

[WHT13AR]

How do you break a bolt that large?

Galvanic corrosion. Pipe on 1/2" breaker bar, SNAP! Had the pinch bolt out already so I took the whole knuckle off and fixed it on the bench.

[Theiceman]

lol you are talking about the pinch bolt from hell... pbfh

it is the most universally hated bolt by all DIY guys in the northern hemisphere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjKqqHjM_KM

decent vid

[mrg_B8TFSi]

I don’t understand what VAG design team was thinking when they designed this assembly with Aluminum spindle and steel bolt with no coating or corrosion inhibitors?


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[Theiceman]

I don’t understand what VAG design team was thinking when they designed this assembly with Aluminum spindle and steel bolt with no coating or corrosion inhibitors?


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well they did redesign the bolt..... once you get the old one out lol.

[mrg_B8TFSi]

lol you are talking about the pinch bolt from hell... pbfh

it is the most universally hated bolt by all DIY guys in the northern hemisphere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjKqqHjM_KM

decent vid

Thanks iceman for this video.. wow no wonder shops turn this job away.. ok I’ll try this technique but will try the ECS tool first I have access to that removal tool. Sounds like you’ve done this job before, did the knuckle get damaged? Did you use the press to pull out the ball joints or pickle fork or hammer on them?


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[RockJGC]

well they did redesign the bolt..... once you get the old one out lol.

Really? Can you share more info on that? I didn't know that bolt is different now.

[old guy]

Really? Can you share more info on that? I didn't know that bolt is different now.

New bolt is "stepped" in the center.

[mrg_B8TFSi]

Was hoping it was titanium lol


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[RockJGC]

New bolt is "stepped" in the center.

Nice.....so less contact area to make it easier to remove should it get corroded? Is that the idea?

[rcprato]

Getting these bolts out is my worst memory of working on my B8 A4 that lived it's whole life in western NY. Wish I had known about the Schwaben tool.

Be careful with heat, it is needed but remember the steering knuckle is aluminum. Took a full Saturday to get just one bolt out, with the dis-similar metals it is like the bolt is welded to the knuckle.

[old guy]

Nice.....so less contact area to make it easier to remove should it get corroded? Is that the idea?

Yep. And it lets you pack some anti-seize inside the knuckle.

[gdlkn84as]

Took me 2 days to get one out on my B7. The other side took about 4 hours....

Well, 4 hours until I broke the knuckle that is.

[mrg_B8TFSi]

New bolt is "stepped" in the center.

So this is the pinch bolt from the rear upper right side.. I don’t feel or see any stepping for the ball joints to sit against.. all of the control arms (all four uppers) came with the bushing mount bolts and a pinch bolt, this was from the Meyle HD kit from FCP should I be using these upgraded bolts? Did FCP put the incorrect bolts in the boxes? Thanks IMG_0929.jpg


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[RPMtech147]

I'm so glad I don't live in the salt belt. I've had a few that were tricky. Actually, my car is from Illinois and has seen a few salty winters. I did mine a couple months ago; first UCAs I did that fought me in a long time. Blue wrench and air hammer took care of it(even saved the bolt).

Good times.

[captain_video]

I'm still amazed that Audi/VW has not done something to correct the design of a stupid bolt after decades of putting these in their cars. My first run-in with one of these was on my wife's '98 Passat. The one surefire method I found for getting these bolts out is to use a Dremel tool in the slot n the spindle closest to the bolt head and cut through it as far as you can without damaging either the spindle or the upper control arm boot. The take a socket wrench and tighten the nut on the other end to jack the bolt out. Use some old lug nuts as spacers when you get down near the end of the threaded section and repeat as necessary until the bolt comes free. Clean out the hole in the spindle to remove all of the old rust and slather lots of anti-seize compound on the new bolt before installing it. I have never had to use heat on the spindle to get a bolt out using this method, and I've swapped out quite a few of them.

[old guy]

Did FCP put the incorrect bolts in the boxes? Thanks IMG_0929.jpg

I don't think they gave you an incorrect bolt. They just didn't give you the updated version (WHT007963)

[hamfisted]

I used the method from the Passat forums where you cut the head off the bolt and use a coupling nut to pull the bolt from the opposite side. Got the bolt out on one side with no issues. When doing the other side I forgot to shove washers in the spindle gap and broke the tab off; had to get a new spindle.

[Theiceman]

only tipmi can provide if it hasn't been posted is make sure you put ( hammer) a washer in each gap of the knuckle where it is designed to pinch .
number one reason knuckle fails is people forget this and knuckle fractures at opposite side of knuckle.
depending how the bolt seized it can actually pull the gap closed

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[mtroxel]

I used the method from the Passat forums where you cut the head off the bolt and use a coupling nut to pull the bolt from the opposite side. Got the bolt out on one side with no issues. When doing the other side I forgot to shove washers in the spindle gap and broke the tab off; had to get a new spindle.

Yea I have that one bookmarked. I used that once about 15 years ago, see the link below. Since then, I just anti-seize the crap out of it, haven't had a problem since then.

https://www.passatworld.com/threads/...y-pics.233225/

[mrg_B8TFSi]

Well after a couple cycles of map gas heating and PB blaster soaking I finally got out the right upper pinch bolt. No cutting or drilling.. I got the bolt spinning and then I put the air hammer on the nut .. I used the nut as a centering guide for the hammer but once the bolt was flush with the upright I put more heat on the spindle and then with a wide “V” notched chisel bit I air hammered on the shoulder of the bolt head and slowly the bolt was moving.. I got it out all in one piece .. I did open the ball joint stem gaps a tad with chisels but I’m not sure that was doing much.. the air hammer was the trick along with heat.. once out I cleaned the bore throughly with parts cleaner and penetrating oils and wire brushed it shiny clean.. never seized the ball joints and with a jack under the knuckle the new ball joints slid in easy.

This was a b*tch of a job but stay patient and use heat and air hammering on the bolt.. never hit any aluminum. It’ll eventually work out


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[RPMtech147]

Well after a couple cycles of map gas heating and PB blaster soaking I finally got out the right upper pinch bolt. No cutting or drilling.. I got the bolt spinning and then I put the air hammer on the nut .. I used the nut as a centering guide for the hammer but once the bolt was flush with the upright I put more heat on the spindle and then with a wide “V” notched chisel bit I air hammered on the shoulder of the bolt head and slowly the bolt was moving.. I got it out all in one piece .. I did open the ball joint stem gaps a tad with chisels but I’m not sure that was doing much.. the air hammer was the trick along with heat.. once out I cleaned the bore throughly with parts cleaner and penetrating oils and wire brushed it shiny clean.. never seized the ball joints and with a jack under the knuckle the new ball joints slid in easy.

This was a b*tch of a job but stay patient and use heat and air hammering on the bolt.. never hit any aluminum. It’ll eventually work out


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Thats a W

[Allowencer]

Bubbling this up, I snapped the head off on the driver's side pinch bolt but the nut came off easy. This was after soaking it all with PB and heating it up with an induction heater I have.

Am I screwed and need to get a new knuckle?

Or should I now try double nut on the bolt side to see if I can get it to turn?

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[mrg_B8TFSi]

I’d try to heat it with mapp then PB blast it.. back n forth heat cycling then try to air hammer it, there is a pinch bolt air hammer kit for this upper bolt


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[Allowencer]

I’d try to heat it with mapp then PB blast it.. back n forth heat cycling then try to air hammer it, there is a pinch bolt air hammer kit for this upper bolt


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I just found the tool, thanks!

Read on another thread this isn't a threaded area so the bolt is just corroded in there. That's a bit of a relief.

Time to get a MAP tank too from the hardware store.

I'll be taking the knuckle off anyways as I'm replacing/upgrading everything. Shock, springs, upper arms, lower arms, tie rod, trailing link, wheel bearing, and ball joint. Lol

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[Theiceman]

you can use the nut side as a puller.. put something in the pinch gaps like a washer to stop it pinching closed as you don't know where it's binding .. Put the nut back on with washers and see if you can pull the rest of the bolt through..

you may need to keep adding washers if it starts to move. and cut pieces off the end of the bolt as it might hit the inside of the fender . heat will obviously help too.

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[mrg_B8TFSi]

Yep great advice keep working the bolt if you can get on it, with the head snapped off could be flush to the knuckle.. so as mentioned you might consider spreading the knuckle with washers or a thin chisel..etc that will help get that snapped bolt moving… once you get it moving you should be able to finally drive it out with air hammering. Yeah welcome to the rust belt you people on the west coast have no idea how easy you have it lol.. I limit it to the west coast to the areas of low humidity because there is no such thing as low humidity east of the Rockies, even high humidity without salt causes enough condensation over time to rust a car


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[Chillaxin]

You can also mix up some 50% acetone (edited: not rubbing alcohol) and 50% ATF. That might soak in better than PB Blaster.

[Allowencer]

You can also mix up some 50% rubbing alcohol and 50% ATF. That might soak in better than PB Blaster.

I've never heard this trick before. Interesting.

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[SNice]

Mine was stuck and corroded - 120k; entire life in PA/NJ.

I twisted the head off (weakened it with a cut through the slot).

Then I put together a diy tool like the one in the video below:

Threaded rod, some pipe, coupler, nuts, and washers.
Got the rods and couplers from McMaster carr
Pulled it right out!

https://youtu.be/6tA_VCBMrb4?si=igLLVzTLAoix0WlV


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[SNice]

Here’s the “tool”

IMG_1135.jpg


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