Intermittent Pinging Making Me Lose Sleep

[redrackham17]

Hi Everyone, I need some help with my 2014 A4. It's a CPMB 2.0t Quattro Auto. The car has over 200,000 miles on it, but everything runs fine except for this strange intermittent pinging. It pings when the engine is kinda bogged, say at low acceleration around 1500 rpm. Above 2200 rpm, it runs excellent. Over 30% throttle, it runs excellent. On the highway, it runs excellent. But for some reason, I can't slightly accelerate, say from 20 to 30 mph, or leave a red light slowly, without the car sounding like a can full of quarters for about 2 seconds. It almost systematically fixes itself with a bit more throttle, an upshift, or letting go of the throttle altogether. The pinging usually lasts for 2 or 3 seconds, in just one gear. Chasing this issue, I've run Liqui Moly Jectron. I've installed brand new bosch injectors because there were misfires caused by the crappy old ones. I've installed a brand new high-pressure fuel pump. Nothing seems to fix it. When looking into the valves last month because the intake was off for the injectors, I didn't see any severe carbon build-up. I've seen cars with much worse carbon buildup running much better. I am thinking it's got to be my spark plugs? I installed new OEM ignition coils and the Audi-branded 06H905601A spark plugs about 10,000 miles ago. However, since I had malfunctioning injectors causing a misfire, could they have fouled up the plugs leading to the ping? What plugs should I get to replace? I'm probably gonna also run Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush with my next oil change. On a side note, the car came with a black-top PCV valve, even though I've read that 2014's should have the white top. Could this mistake by a prior owner cause the issue? Please please help, I'm going broke fixing this thing :(

[audrobotic]

Hi Everyone, I need some help with my 2014 A4. It's a CPMB 2.0t Quattro Auto. The car has over 200,000 miles on it, but everything runs fine except for this strange intermittent pinging. It pings when the engine is kinda bogged, say at low acceleration around 1500 rpm. Above 2200 rpm, it runs excellent. Over 30% throttle, it runs excellent. On the highway, it runs excellent. But for some reason, I can't slightly accelerate, say from 20 to 30 mph, or leave a red light slowly, without the car sounding like a can full of quarters for about 2 seconds. It almost systematically fixes itself with a bit more throttle, an upshift, or letting go of the throttle altogether. The pinging usually lasts for 2 or 3 seconds, in just one gear. Chasing this issue, I've run Liqui Moly Jectron. I've installed brand new bosch injectors because there were misfires caused by the crappy old ones. I've installed a brand new high-pressure fuel pump. Nothing seems to fix it. When looking into the valves last month because the intake was off for the injectors, I didn't see any severe carbon build-up. I've seen cars with much worse carbon buildup running much better. I am thinking it's got to be my spark plugs? I installed new OEM ignition coils and the Audi-branded 06H905601A spark plugs about 10,000 miles ago. However, since I had malfunctioning injectors causing a misfire, could they have fouled up the plugs leading to the ping? What plugs should I get to replace? I'm probably gonna also run Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush with my next oil change. On a side note, the car came with a black-top PCV valve, even though I've read that 2014's should have the white top. Could this mistake by a prior owner cause the issue? Please please help, I'm going broke fixing this thing :(

Yikes. I have no idea if the wrong PCV would cause this pinging, but the black top definitely sounds the like wrong one for a 2014.

Years ago I had pinging on my 2013, but not quite like yours. It was pinging audibly at low RPM under load, like a steep grade at around freeway speeds. The only thing I could attribute it to was the engine oil. I never even thought that could be it, and I only noticed the change accidentally. The Audi dealer I was going to for a few oil changes used some kind of Pennzoil, but after I went to an indy and they used something else (can't remember, Castrol maybe) I no longer noticed any pinging. Before that I would downshift the transmission to increase RPM to avoid the pinging. I've used various types of oil since then and never had a problem.

But when I was looking into this, my guess it that it was LSPI.

[redrackham17]

Yikes. I have no idea if the wrong PCV would cause this pinging, but the black top definitely sounds the like wrong one for a 2014.

Years ago I had pinging on my 2013, but not quite like yours. It was pinging audibly at low RPM under load, like a steep grade at around freeway speeds. The only thing I could attribute it to was the engine oil. I never even thought that could be it, and I only noticed the change accidentally. The Audi dealer I was going to for a few oil changes used some kind of Pennzoil, but after I went to an indy and they used something else (can't remember, Castrol maybe) I no longer noticed any pinging. Before that I would downshift the transmission to increase RPM to avoid the pinging. I've used various types of oil since then and never had a problem.

But when I was looking into this, my guess it that it was LSPI.

Thank god I've found you bro... My issue is almost the same issue; it started off with what you said you had but every now and then at red lights or a slow-moving on-ramp; now it's progressed to this over the last 6 months. I've been using Castrol Euro 5w40 for the last two years almost religiously. I'm gonna run the proline engine flush this week along with the new plugs and an oil change. Going back to the PCV however, I think you're right... the car was built in late 2013, and I've read that after 03/2012 the cars all have white tops. The previous owner (small secondhand dealer) said he would change the PCV before giving me the car, so do you think he screwed up and put the black top thinking it was fine? That would probably explain a lot... anyways, thanks a million for the help!

[RPMtech147]

Where are you getting your fuel from? Stay away from Costco/Sams/Arco.

[silver_tt]

FWIW I believe the 2014 originally came with the black cap from the factory. It was updated to the white cap later, which bumps up the vacuum spec, but also requires a ECU update. Also agree about gas. I only buy Top Tier 93 octane preferably V-Power from Shell.

[redrackham17]

Where are you getting your fuel from? Stay away from Costco/Sams/Arco.

Always 93 from BP. My family has a company account there for our small business so I never ever get gas anywhere else unless its an emergency

[redrackham17]

So, I pulled out the spark plugs today... no oil or anything on the coils, but the plugs themselves look like they survived Chornobyl. I'm hoping the bad injectors caused all this since I can't see any oil down there; there's no way in hell I wanna do a valve cover gasket too. Attached pictures of the plugs from cylinder 3 and 4 for reference. Spark Plug 4.jpgSpark Plug 3.jpg

[silver_tt]

93 from BP is good. Ya, your plugs look terrible

[redrackham17]

93 from BP is good. Ya, your plugs look terrible

Yeah gonna install NGKs. Regarding the PCV, I read everywhere that in a 2014 I need the part ending in AE or AK but mine has been running a black top ending in AH this whole time. Prior owner put it on, after a year I figured it wasn't working well, replaced it with a new AH blacktop about 15000 miles ago, and the whole car ran better for a few days and then went back to how it was before. Do you think it's worth the $100 bucks to get a white top from FCP euro and putting it on?

[silver_tt]

The OE NGKs are good plugs (it's what I run). For 2014 part ending in AK is the latest and greatest PCV if you have a white top with updated/higher vacuum spec. It's possible your car is correctly using the blacktop if it isn't flashed and is still setup to use the old version (if it was I would probably have it updated, a dealer would be able to lookup your VIN and tell you). Whatever the correct PCV is, it's a good idea to replace it every 40-50K miles. In addition to the diaphragm and combi-valve there are several internal check valves in the PCV unit that can fail. Def a good idea to replace if it's old....

[MongoMcG]

Agree with Silver-TT - the dealer will be able to tell you if the phase 1 oil consumption work was done which included the updated PCV valve, new ECU software, and a new front seal due to higher crankcase pressures. If you have service records for the car it will be listed as "Phase 1 somethin' somethin'" on the work order.

If the phase 1 work was done then 06H103495AK is the part number you need (white top).
If the phase 1 work was not done, then 06H103495AH is the part # you need (black top).
The 9 bolts are part #N10725401.
The PCV valve, the gasket and the bolts are available as a kit.

[audrobotic]

Agree with Silver-TT - the dealer will be able to tell you if the phase 1 oil consumption work was done which included the updated PCV valve, new ECU software, and a new front seal due to higher crankcase pressures. If you have service records for the car it will be listed as "Phase 1 somethin' somethin'" on the work order.

If the phase 1 work was done then 06H103495AK is the part number you need (white top).
If the phase 1 work was not done, then 06H103495AH is the part # you need (black top).
The 9 bolts are part #N10725401.
The PCV valve, the gasket and the bolts are available as a kit.

Sorry guys that makes no sense for a 2014. The 2013+ (B8.5) never used the black top PCV or had any kind of re-flash available. To me it's simple: B8.5 = White top = AK.

[silver_tt]

either way like I said, very easy to verify using your VIN (which you should be doing when buying parts anyway)... I don't know what year but several OEMs bumped up the vaccum spec around this time. Porsche did it to 15" when they went DFI and then doubled it after that. Audi wasn't alone....

[MongoMcG]

Sorry guys that makes no sense for a 2014. The 2013+ (B8.5) never used the black top PCV or had any kind of re-flash available. To me it's simple: B8.5 = White top = AK.

Doh! How did I miss the 2014 info? As Agent 86 might say, "Sorry about that, chief." Yes, AK all the way.

[rcprato]

Sounds like pre-ignition to me and I would look into replacing the knock sensors, these tell the ECU how far it can advance timing before engine starts to knock (ping)
IMO that issue would cause your plugs to look like that.
You might be able to log ignition timing with VCDS if you have it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MongoMcG]

If it's pre-ignition then it could be as simple as low coolant level. With high mileage, age, gunk and other factors working against the cooling system it doesn't take much loss of efficiency to leave enough heat in the cylinder to cause pre-ignition. Along the same thought, a coolant flush and fill might help bring the efficiency back up to snuff (if there is the issue). The spark plugs are responsible for removing heat from the cylinder as well.

A nice chunk of carbon sucked in from the intake staying red hot can cause pre-ignition, too, as well as bad/old gasoline. Pre-ignition puts serious stress on the rods and pistons and sometime the valvetrain, and it can cause catastrophic engine damage.

Note that pre-ignition is not the same as detonation, but it is a type of detonation. Here's a very quick read: http://www.masterenginetuner.com/pre...etonation.html

[rcprato]

@MonoMcG thanks for the clarification. I think what I was referring to is detonation which I dealt with years ago in high compression engines that did not have ECU timing control (1970 Pontiac GTO) where I had to adjust timing advance just short of the engine detonating on hard acceleration. An option back then was adding water injection on the intake side of the carburetor that sprayed a mist of water at low vacuum, was amazing how well it worked on the high compression V8 I had.

Modern engines have sensors on the block, not sure if it is every cylinder, and adjust timing too as much advance that is possible without detecting detonation from the cylinder. One of the measurements that can be effected by the octane rating of your gas.

[silver_tt]

The Calcium and Sodium level of the oil you run has a large impact on LSPI

http://www.engineprofessional.com/ar...Q218_42-46.pdf

[redrackham17]

either way like I said, very easy to verify using your VIN (which you should be doing when buying parts anyway)... I don't know what year but several OEMs bumped up the vaccum spec around this time. Porsche did it to 15" when they went DFI and then doubled it after that. Audi wasn't alone....

I went on the actual Audi website and typed in the model, year, engine, etc... it recommended the AK revision for me. To verify, I went back and changed the model year to 2011 to see if this is just the latest version it always recommends... nope, it changed to AH for 2011. So I guess I've found my solution here, I should have been running the white top AK but for the last 40,000 miles I've been running the black top AH version. God knows what type of damage this has probably caused inside the motor.

[MongoMcG]

I went on the actual Audi website and typed in the model, year, engine, etc... it recommended the AK revision for me. To verify, I went back and changed the model year to 2011 to see if this is just the latest version it always recommends... nope, it changed to AH for 2011. So I guess I've found my solution here, I should have been running the white top AK but for the last 40,000 miles I've been running the black top AH version. God knows what type of damage this has probably caused inside the motor.

I was thinking about that. Other than reduced crankcase vacuum (and the note below) I don't see the wrong PCV doing much that would be concerning. The increased crankcase vacuum from using the white top PCV was supposed to keep the piston rings closer to the cylinder wall, or some such snake oil. So the only difference may be more oil consumption.

But your still dealing with some sort of detonation, which still points to too much heat in the combustion chamber. Here's a bit more info: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/en...ock-explained/

If the crankcase pressure was reduced (with the wrong PCV) and more oil was indeed getting past the piston oil scraper ring, could more oil and particulates cause detonation? Perhaps over time if the carbon build up in the combustion chamber is enough to effectively raise the compression ratio of the cylinder. More compression generates more heat - maybe even enough to detonate the air-fuel mixture, especially when combined with fouled chunky plugs and an aging cooling system.

[MongoMcG]

The Calcium and Sodium level of the oil you run has a large impact on LSPI

http://www.engineprofessional.com/ar...Q218_42-46.pdf

Good read.

[redrackham17]

I was thinking about that. Other than reduced crankcase vacuum (and the note below) I don't see the wrong PCV doing much that would be concerning. The increased crankcase vacuum from using the white top PCV was supposed to keep the piston rings closer to the cylinder wall, or some such snake oil. So the only difference may be more oil consumption.

But your still dealing with some sort of detonation, which still points to too much heat in the combustion chamber. Here's a bit more info: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/en...ock-explained/

If the crankcase pressure was reduced (with the wrong PCV) and more oil was indeed getting past the piston oil scraper ring, could more oil and particulates cause detonation? Perhaps over time if the carbon build-up in the combustion chamber is enough to effectively raise the compression ratio of the cylinder. More compression generates more heat - maybe even enough to detonate the air-fuel mixture, especially when combined with fouled chunky plugs and an aging cooling system.

I'm gonna put in these NGK's, run Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush, and put in a new AK revision PCV. The old plugs I pulled out up above looked like they'll die at any moment; If this fixes the pinging, I'm a happy camper. I honestly just don't even care about oil consumption at this point. Audilyfe :)

[redrackham17]

Hey everybody, just an update, I drove around this past week with the new plugs installed, a flush with Liqui Moly proline, and a fresh oil change and filter. The damn thing is still pinging like crazy. It's only at light and moderate acceleration, only below 3000 rpm. Never when in park, only when the engine is at low speed but the car is moving (worst is when I have 10% throttle on in a super low gear doing 20 mph around the city at 1500 rpm or so... thing sounds like it'll explode). What really confuses me is the unpredictability of it... it never happens until I've driven for at least 15 minutes. I've noticed that sometimes when I slow down from the engine running at a higher rpm for a while and then give it gas again, say turning from an off-ramp and then taking off, there is a cloud of blue smoke. It's not tiny, but it's usually one singular puff. And it's clearly blue. It happens once for every 5 or 10 instances when that scenario occurs. I now know that I am wrongly running a black top PCV on my car that needs a white top... is that the culprit? I've looked in the cylinders and valves; no crazy carbon buildup or anything. Wtf is wrong with this thing?

[seangrimes590]

Valve stem seals okay?

[RPMtech147]

So, I pulled out the spark plugs today... no oil or anything on the coils, but the plugs themselves look like they survived Chornobyl. I'm hoping the bad injectors caused all this since I can't see any oil down there; there's no way in hell I wanna do a valve cover gasket too. Attached pictures of the plugs from cylinder 3 and 4 for reference. Spark Plug 4.jpgSpark Plug 3.jpg

She's an oil burner. I did plugs about 20k ago. I should check those.

[redrackham17]

Valve stem seals okay?

Yep seems so... I don't have any of the telltale signs like coasting or idling for a long time and then seeing a bunch of blue smoke out the exhaust when I hit the gas. The engine isn't any noisier than the other 2.0t's that I've seen either. There also isn't any smoke out of the exhaust when I give it a cold start or idle for a while then drive off.

[beatsageo]

Hey everybody, just an update, I drove around this past week with the new plugs installed, a flush with Liqui Moly proline, and a fresh oil change and filter. The damn thing is still pinging like crazy. It's only at light and moderate acceleration, only below 3000 rpm. Never when in park, only when the engine is at low speed but the car is moving (worst is when I have 10% throttle on in a super low gear doing 20 mph around the city at 1500 rpm or so... thing sounds like it'll explode). What really confuses me is the unpredictability of it... it never happens until I've driven for at least 15 minutes.

-Carbon buildup in the cylinder causes pre-ignition. (test compression/bore scope)
-worn out plugs and foreign debris (brand New)
a. Oil and blow-by can be an ignition source, fix PCV system/check rear main
-low fuel quality and insufficient octane (BP super-duper-gas but maybe change stations for fun)
-Improper ignition timing can cause pre ignition (need to check)
a. The base timing has drifted from improper assembly or failed sensor etc.
-Pull an injector or 4 and see what the nozzles look like. Gives you an idea of what the chamber look like.

can provide some data logs of the crank/cam sensors and knock sensor, the ECM fixes the timing. I think this is less likely the problem though.

[RPMtech147]

Make a vid and post on youtube. I want to hear what "pinging" sounds like to you...