Excessive Front Inner Tire Wear?

[DeeInSeatown]

Getting ready to replace all 4 tires on my '14 A4, P+, S-line with 245 40R 18 tires. Best I can tell, these may be the original tires from the car. So based on mileage and age, it's time for new tires. So no big deal there.

What I'm confused/concerned about is that I thought based on wear bars, there were a few more miles left. But the other day front drivers side tire had low air pressure. Pumped it back up and a few miles later it was losing air so quickly that you could hear it. Couldn't get in for a repair (figured ran something over), so put the spare on to buy a day. That's where I realized that the inner inch or so of the tire was heavily worn. So much so that the tread was separating from the sidewall, and you could see the belt underneath. Looked at the other front tire, and while not as bad it wasn't by much, wear pattern was really similar. I'd never seen or heard of similar wear. Did a quick search and found a few threads on Audiworld and here in the S5 forum where this has happened. So happens occasionally, but not sure I saw any answers on why.

From the wear, if anything it seems the tire pressure may have been a bit too low, but if so why is only the inside and not outside worn the same way? I have been good about inflating to pressure on the door jamb, and if anything maybe relied on the TPMS too much...only check pressure when I get a warning. The threads I saw with similar wear also mentioned toe. I would think (but am no expert) that if camber was the issue, more than just the inner inch or so would have excessive wear.

When I first got the car, it tramlined really heavily. Tracked ruts and could be really twitchy off-center. First road trip I did in the car was a bit unnerving at speed. Got the car aligned at a local shop (Tru-Line) after that, taking it from what was out to in spec. Car tracked much better.

As I get ready to put on new tires, any thoughts on what may have caused this? This seems like it has the potential to be really dangerous if it wasn't caught, and would like to not have to worry about it as the next set of tires approach end-of-life.

Pictures of the tire wear, tread separation, and before/after alignment specs are attached.

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[JLAllroad]

Huge negative DS toe hade the wheel pointed left while going straight scrubbing the inside of the tire, you had the opposite on the right side scrubbing the outside shoulder, the difference is negative camber puts more weight on the inside shoulder compounding the toe issue there.


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[Rich_Fan]

A couple of observations from your pics. 2 of your tyres look a lot more worn/old than the others. One is delaminating & the final one looks over inflated. There should be a Dot code (date & week of manufacture) indicator to tell you how old the tyres are. Believe it or not they do age as the rubber dries out or the adhesives no longer hold the caucus together.
Your alignment looks good after you had it done. But when was that & how many miles have you driven since then? All it takes is hitting a pot hole to knock that out and cause excessive wear on your tyres.

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[DeeInSeatown]

Huge negative DS toe hade the wheel pointed left while going straight scrubbing the inside of the tire, you had the opposite on the right side scrubbing the outside shoulder.


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Originally yes, but don't the after specs show toe pretty close on both sides? Been driving with the car aligned as per after specs for 4+ years and about 35k miles, and now it's the inner side of both tires that show the excessive wear.

[DeeInSeatown]

A couple of observations from your pics. 2 of your tyres look a lot more worn/old than the others. One is delaminating & the final one looks over inflated. There should be a Dot code (date & week of manufacture) indicator to tell you how old the tyres are. Believe it or not they do age as the rubber dries out or the adhesives no longer hold the caucus together.
Your alignment looks good after you had it done. But when was that & how many miles have you driven since then? All it takes is hitting a pot hole to knock that out and cause excessive wear on your tyres.

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Tires are definitely old. Looked at the date code the other day. Almost 10 years old. FWIW, attached a couple of pictures of the same 2 tires. First 3 are the passenger side still on the car. The second two pictures are of the driver side tire with no pressure, after being replaced with the spare.

I know my wife ran a curb over (yes, really my wife, swear it wasn't me), but that was just a few months back. Otherwise, Seattle living, good chance I hit a pothole in those 4 years.

I'm pretty sure that when I bough the car (lease return from Audi of Tacoma) that the previous "owner" had aftermarket wheels and tires. The tires and wheels were like brand new when I got the car with 50k or so miles. Good tread depth and no curb rash at all.

[Rich_Fan]

Tires are definitely old. Looked at the date code the other day. Almost 10 years old. FWIW, attached a couple of pictures of the same 2 tires. First 3 are the passenger side still on the car. The second two pictures are of the driver side tire with no pressure, after being replaced with the spare.

I know my wife ran a curb over (yes, really my wife, swear it wasn't me), but that was just a few months back. Otherwise, Seattle living, good chance I hit a pothole in those 4 years.

I'm pretty sure that when I bough the car (lease return from Audi of Tacoma) that the previous "owner" had aftermarket wheels and tires. The tires and wheels were like brand new when I got the car with 50k or so miles. Good tread depth and no curb rash at all.

Many people know sneakers/running shoes have a 6 month lifespan, after which they no longer offer the same traction or rebound nedded for running. Why do you think car tyres are any different?
The other thing to take into consideration is tyre life. There is a tread wear indicator on the tyres which will give you an indication of how long they might last. If you're saying the tyres are 10 years old they are past due & a danger to the passengers within the vehicle.
Might we worthwhile getting the car looked at by a mechanic as it's 8 or 9 years old. Worn suspension components will quickly show via tyre wear, just the same as the alignment being out.

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[DeeInSeatown]

Many people know sneakers/running shoes have a 6 month lifespan, after which they no longer offer the same traction or rebound nedded for running. Why do you think car tyres are any different?
The other thing to take into consideration is tyre life. There is a tread wear indicator on the tyres which will give you an indication of how long they might last. If you're saying the tyres are 10 years old they are past due & a danger to the passengers within the vehicle.
Might we worthwhile getting the car looked at by a mechanic as it's 8 or 9 years old. Worn suspension components will quickly show via tyre wear, just the same as the alignment being out.

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To be clear, I'm not upset about having to replace the tires. Like you said, they're old but the tread hasn't worn down to the wear bars at all. So using that as my metric, I was surprised to see the tread separating from the sidewall and that we need replacements right away.

My questions were mostly:

- Have other seen this
- If so, has a cause been identified, and
- If not, is there anything specific to look for.

Getting four new tires tomorrow. Going to take the car back to the alignment shop afterwards. Will also have them look for worn components. Just want to be wiser so I'm not surprised by this again 45k miles in the future.

FWIW, the car really doesn't behave any different now on the road than after purchase.

Semi-related, what's the going thinking on rotating? I may be misremembering, but for reason I thought that Audi no longer recommends tire rotation, either side to side, front to back. or corner to corner. In fact, I recall with many tires being directional, side to side rotation isn't even an option anymore.

[Rich_Fan]

To be clear, I'm not upset about having to replace the tires. Like you said, they're old but the tread hasn't worn down to the wear bars at all. So using that as my metric, I was surprised to see the tread separating from the sidewall and that we need replacements right away.

My questions were mostly:

- Have other seen this
- If so, has a cause been identified, and
- If not, is there anything specific to look for.

Getting four new tires tomorrow. Going to take the car back to the alignment shop afterwards. Will also have them look for worn components. Just want to be wiser so I'm not surprised by this again 45k miles in the future.

FWIW, the car really doesn't behave any different now on the road than after purchase.

Semi-related, what's the going thinking on rotating? I may be misremembering, but for reason I thought that Audi no longer recommends tire rotation, either side to side, front to back. or corner to corner. In fact, I recall with many tires being directional, side to side rotation isn't even an option anymore.

Delamination can be caused by several factors.
A) Excessive speed, heat & abuse.
B) car being sat on an under inflated never rotated tyre for extended periods of time.

Tyre rotation was always a way to get more mileage and even wear out of the tyres. Most modern tyres have a directional tread pattern, so can't be rotated as easily as they used to be. In your case moving the fronts to the rear after 10 thousand miles might be worthwhile.

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[JLAllroad]

Delamination can be caused by several factors.
A) Excessive speed, heat & abuse.
B) car being sat on an under inflated never rotated tyre for extended periods of time.

Tyre rotation was always a way to get more mileage and even wear out of the tyres. Most modern tyres have a directional tread pattern, so can't be rotated as easily as they used to be. In your case moving the fronts to the rear after 10 thousand miles might be worthwhile.

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A couple notes,

I’ve never gotten much over 20k miles on an Audi, heavy car with some power and relatively narrow tires.

If you want the tread-wear warranty honored, you have to rotate every 8k ish.


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[DeeInSeatown]

Putting rotation back in the regular maintenance regimen.

Generally been a low mileage driver since buying this car. Less than 5K/year since purchase. So quite a bit of sitting. My hot rodding days are pretty well behind me though.

Would certainly have gotten more miles out of these though with rotation. Rears have more and more even tread wear. C'est la vie.

I'll have to check back with my before/after alignment specs.

[Seal1968]

I rotate front to back same side every seasonal change. (re: directional tires) Has never failed me.

Good idea to check alignment and components as you'd hate to spend $ on new tires and a worn tie rod causes premature wear.

The tires are delaminating due to age/heat cycles...they look melted in the pics. Probably have cracks in the treads if you look closely.

[AudiTLC]

most likely a combination of factors. It's not uncommon.

worn suspension like ball joints, lack of rotation and out of alignment. It can drive smoothly and still be out of alignment.
tires have a date on them, they should be replaced based on time as well as mileage.

[audrobotic]

"Old tires have been the culprit in fatal accidents. Here are just two examples:

In 2008, the owner of a 1998 Ford Explorer in Georgia needed a new tire for his SUV and bought a used one. When he was driving two weeks later, the tread suddenly separated from the tire. The Explorer went out of control and hit a motorcycle, killing its rider. An analysis of the used tire revealed that it was nearly 10 years old.

In a more recent and high-profile example, the investigation into the cause of the 2013 accident that killed the actor Paul Walker revealed that the Porsche Carrera GT in which he was riding had 9-year-old tires. The California Highway Patrol noted that the tires' age might have compromised their drivability and handling characteristics, according to the Los Angeles Times."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintena...our-tires.html

[DeeInSeatown]

I rotate front to back same side every seasonal change. (re: directional tires) Has never failed me.

Good idea to check alignment and components as you'd hate to spend $ on new tires and a worn tie rod causes premature wear.

The tires are delaminating due to age/heat cycles...they look melted in the pics. Probably have cracks in the treads if you look closely.

There were little cracks and areas with small pits where tread was missing. Couldn't say about the melting, but maybe you don't need to go super fast to get there.

Otherwise, glad after the rest of the info that new tires are on all four corners now. I'm curious what the alignment specs are after all of these years.

[Seal1968]

There were little cracks and areas with small pits where tread was missing. Couldn't say about the melting, but maybe you don't need to go super fast to get there.

Otherwise, glad after the rest of the info that new tires are on all four corners now. I'm curious what the alignment specs are after all of these years.

I think old rubber failing can look like the tires were in the Indy 500. I'd be curious on the alignment specs as well...enjoy the smooth ride!

[DeeInSeatown]

I think old rubber failing can look like the tires were in the Indy 500. I'd be curious on the alignment specs as well...enjoy the smooth ride!

Definitely didn't look like this

Any rate, looking forward to driving the car with the new shoes. Wife has had the car the last 2 days. Meanwhile, I'm glued to the WFH computer in the basement.

[DeeInSeatown]

Reviving this one with the before/after on yesterday's alignment. I'll just say damn, that toe was off! I'm going to chalk that up to the curb that was apparently run over at some point. Camber and caster were surprisingly close,

On the short drive home, car definitely felt to be tracking better. No issues noted with suspension components.

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