2018 s7 issues

[Lvilla1985]

To all my Audi Gurus/Specialists,

I could really use your help!

I decided to purchase a used 2018 audi s7 w/30k miles from out of state. I had it inspected prior to purchasing and the below info was on the summary:

- aftermarket exhaust
- removed cats and replaced with straight pipe
- rich and lean faults stored.

I do not know a lot about vehicles and such modifications. But based off the technicians inspection report and discussing with him, he made it seem like the vehicle was good to go.

So I purchased the vehicle and had it delivered. Not even a 100miles worth of driving, I noticed that it was driving a little rough (shakes/vibrates) and out of nowhere, white smoke coming out the tailpipes causing the check engine light to turn on. I brought it to the audi service in my area to have them look into my issues. Below is what they diagnosed..

- rich and lean faults stored in system
- check engine light on, white smoke coming out of exhaust (smells like burning oil).
- both turbos have been replaced. Possible cause for oil being in the exhaust may be due to bad turbos and oil was blowing by.
- ecm is tuned
- car feels like it has a misfire but no codes or faults being read. Possible ecm and aftermarket may be the reason for this running condition.
- found throttle body gasket to have a cut in gasket, which could cause the engine to run rough. Replaced gasket, still runs rough, but better than before.

Based off this info (hopefully it was detailed enough) what are my next steps to getting this vehicle to drive right with no issues? I am out of luck on giving back to the dealer and at this time, can only hope that the audi service that initially inspected the vehicle or the selling dealership will compromise on making things right and meeting me halfway to resolve the issues.

Suggestions/recommendations??

Thanks all!

[freshjive]

The rich/lean faults are a possible byproduct of the vehicle not having any catalytic converters or from the throttle body gasket that was damaged.
Are the turbos OEM or aftermarket? Have they been inspected for shaft play?
Are there any active misfires coming up on the measured values?
When was the last time the spark plugs have been replaced?
What is the complete maintenance history of the vehicle?
How thick is the white smoke? Any loss of coolant that you're not seeing leak externally from the engine?
When you brought it in for the pre-purchase inspection what faults were stored at that time? If it was done at an Audi dealership get them to pull the previous vehicle scan

[Yeoman]

With no misfire codes it sounds like a fueling issue to me

[Lvilla1985]

Great questions! I have snipped these and emailed it over to the advisor that is currently handling my concerns. @freshjive

[Lvilla1985]

Could the dealership that sold me the vehicle or service dept. that did the initial inspection be at blame for the issues I am currently having?

[Mazen1209]

Does your state have Lemon Law? Just in case the car has too much to fix and would not be worth it? A lot of these dealers are super shady

Sent from my E6910 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Yeoman]

Could the dealership that sold me the vehicle or service dept. that did the initial inspection be at blame for the issues I am currently having?

Of course.. I would take it back and demand that it be addressed, and receive some sort of compensation for it being tuned. Dealers are doing the bare minimum to prep cars for sale because they know they will sell easily given the market. Do not purchase a used car from a dealer that is not backing it with at least a 3 month full warranty, especially for a car that's only 4 years old.

[Mazen1209]

Of course.. I would take it back and demand that it be addressed, and receive some sort of compensation for it being tuned. Dealers are doing the bare minimum to prep cars for sale because they know they will sell easily given the market. Do not purchase a used car from a dealer that is not backing it with at least a 3 month full warranty, especially for a car that's only 4 years old.

Agreed

Sent from my E6910 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Lvilla1985]

Of course.. I would take it back and demand that it be addressed, and receive some sort of compensation for it being tuned. Dealers are doing the bare minimum to prep cars for sale because they know they will sell easily given the market. Do not purchase a used car from a dealer that is not backing it with at least a 3 month full warranty, especially for a car that's only 4 years old.

Dealership is stating that I am aware of all issues based on the PPI report. But the report says nothing about the vehicle being tuned because their inspections are only a "visual and scan of the vehicle". Therefore, if it has been tuned, they would not know as it was done outside of factory spec. I just now found out that the vehicle was tuned after having had to take it back to audi to do a diagnosis with the issues that have arised. So dealership should take some sort of responsibility, correct?

[Audisthesia]

If the car was not sold by an audi dealership, then it would be extremely unlikely they were aware of the tune. As. Far as lemon laws go, I'm sure it varies by state. In Florida the lemon law applies to new or dealer demo vehicles, not used.

[gk1]

Dealership is stating that I am aware of all issues based on the PPI report. But the report says nothing about the vehicle being tuned because their inspections are only a "visual and scan of the vehicle". Therefore, if it has been tuned, they would not know as it was done outside of factory spec. I just now found out that the vehicle was tuned after having had to take it back to audi to do a diagnosis with the issues that have arised. So dealership should take some sort of responsibility, correct?

Unfortunately I think not. Most car are sold "as is". Meaning it is up to you to do any sort of thorough inspection you want prior to purchase.
Understood you'd like to trust the seller/dealership to do this and offer some sort of guarantee, but strictly speaking I don't think they are required to.

[Lvilla1985]

Unfortunately I think not. Most car are sold "as is". Meaning it is up to you to do any sort of thorough inspection you want prior to purchase.
Understood you'd like to trust the seller/dealership to do this and offer some sort of guarantee, but strictly speaking I don't think they are required to.

Sheeesh! Waiting to speak to the Owner of dealership today. Hopefully we can come to some sort of compromise because I have a feeling that Im going to be coming out of pocket a good amount! lol

ok.. question.. will a 2013 s7 oem downpipe w/cat fit my '18 S7? If so, will it pass smog emmission?

[Audisthesia]

Yeah they will fit

[Botbasher]

If the car was not sold by an audi dealership, then it would be extremely unlikely they were aware of the tune. As. Far as lemon laws go, I'm sure it varies by state. In Florida the lemon law applies to new or dealer demo vehicles, not used.

And Lemon Laws are typically four unsuccessful attempts to fix the identical problem within 18 months or 18,000 miles. This will typically qualify your vehicle as a lemon. Your vehicle may also qualify as a lemon if it spends more that 30 days in the shop within these limitations. As he stated though... it only applies to dealer sold "new" vehicles. Used is not covered unless specified by a warranty clause and you still have to let them fix it before you get to claim lemon!

The fact that it had modified/deleted cats should have been a HUGE red flag, but you still may have an ACE in the hole!

They, a registered dealer in a US State, sold you a non-EPA compliant vehicle for on road use (deleted cats with a valid DTC). I would nicely suggest that they make every effort to return the vehicle to a EPA compliant vehicle or you will forward this issue to the EPA.

If you don't think that this has some teeth... look at the guy that crushed his truck because the EPA gave him the option to repair or crush... and look at the Diesel Bros that got fined nearly $900k for selling non-EPA compliant vehicles.

It may take some time or you may have to return the vehicle (or both) but the odds are that you'll come out even in the end.

Let us know how that one works!

Cheers,

KS

[Audisthesia]

He's right. They willingly and knowingly sold you a car that is not EPA compliant. And from what you've stated in the op you have written proof of this. If I were you I would kindly point that out to them. They are definitely on the hook to make that car EPA compliant by law. In addition to that it sounds like the state you live in also has emissions testing so you have some leverage at the state level as well working in your favor

[Botbasher]

He's right. They willingly and knowingly sold you a car that is not EPA compliant. And from what you've stated in the op you have written proof of this. If I were you I would kindly point that out to them. They are definitely on the hook to make that car EPA compliant by law. In addition to that it sounds like the state you live in also has emissions testing so you have some leverage at the state level as well working in your favor

Dry reading, but it'll give you the gist of what power you can wield on a dealer selling defeated emission vehicles!! The "tune" they might get away with not being an Audi dealer... but the visual on the cat... not even close! Even without it in writing to you, it would not pass a visual exam!

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi...etampering.pdf

Specifically...

ECUs... Products that change an ECU—commonly known as tuners—might be an illegal aftermarket defeat device, the use or installation of which might constitute illegal tampering.

Exhaust... Common examples are products that block EGR systems and hollow “straight” pipes that replace filters or catalysts that belong in the exhaust system.

Personally... given the chance the turbos are dead (and who knows what other damage to the motor and trans). I'd tell them to come pick up the car and take the loss on the shipping if they just won't suck it up. You'll come out ahead not only in $$ but time as if this takes the EPA getting involved, it could be years.

Cheers,

KS

[MattyMarkey]

^ Throwing around truth bombs!

In my state, there is no way that should've passed inspection legally - just the visual checks of the cats. I think it's a country-wide regulation to hook the car up to verify OBD emission testing these days, right? How did this car pass that? Trying to rule out any state specific rules, being in Nevada and/or whatever state the car was sold from

I agree, from the description of symptoms, sounds like potential blown turbo's. Also agree your stance is EPA regulations. God speed!

[Audibellybutton]

You gotta apply some pressure bro, consult an attorney if you must. I had a friend buy a 535i from a used dealership and there was some issues (although minor) that they did not disclose, he basically spazzed on them and the dealership took care of everything. All it took was the threat of legal action lol. If I remember correctly he had a leaking oil filter housing gasket and a blown charge pipe. Unrelated to your issue but if you threaten legal action, especially with the fact that the catalytic converters are missing, you have a lot of leverage. If they don't play ball you can sue them and win for sure. I doubt they would even want to take it that far and will probably reach a deal with you. You just gotta apply the pressure and show them you're not gonna roll over

[esemes]

Sheeesh! Waiting to speak to the Owner of dealership today. Hopefully we can come to some sort of compromise because I have a feeling that Im going to be coming out of pocket a good amount! lol

ok.. question.. will a 2013 s7 oem downpipe w/cat fit my '18 S7? If so, will it pass smog emmission?

i have a set here if you need them asap. off my 2016 s6 with 36K at the time.

[Alabama]

He's right. They willingly and knowingly sold you a car that is not EPA compliant. And from what you've stated in the op you have written proof of this. If I were you I would kindly point that out to them. They are definitely on the hook to make that car EPA compliant by law.

Echoing everyone else. EPA is taking emissions issues very seriously and assessing very large fines. The dealership owner is likely well aware and should want to resolve your issues without involving the Feds. Probably better to invoke EPA than Nevada as you bought the car out-of-state. Good luck!

[agorich]

Really looking forward to how your conversation turned out.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Botbasher]

Probably better to invoke EPA than Nevada as you bought the car out-of-state. Good luck!

But the dealer shipped it to Nevada... so Nevada could take a bite at the same time too!

Load heavy... don't forgo any tool!

Cheers,

KS

[Lvilla1985]

Will definitely keep everyone posted! Owner of dealership has been dodging my calls so I left him a lengthy email explaining my concern and frustrations. I have inquired with several attorneys and am awaiting replies.

Thank you to everyone who has provided their input and advice in this thread! 🙏🏽

[widebodyfx]

I think the As-Is stuff will be the sticking point, did they knowingly sell a car without cats? Yes, but it's documented you knew too.

[Mazen1209]

He knew but does that matter? He's not aware of what emissions law there are, the dealer is. The dealer knows that he can't sell a car like that. Bro, I think a good lawyer will be able to argue this for you

Sent from my E6910 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[widebodyfx]

I get the possible ways it is on the seller for resolution, seller will stone wall or stall to see how much conviction the buyer side has.

Buyer can play ignorance but it’s not innocence in the situation. PPI flagged things, unless you have some documentation on asking to correct some of those things the As-Is could come into play that nothing else is promised.

Different states treat emissions and inspection differently. Cali would probably roast the seller and not even allow the sale to consummate with the emissions on ownership changes. Cali used to make buyers sign no cooling off period, don’t think I’ve seen that in Washington which did follow a lot of Calis examples.