Rod knock, rebuild motor or replace?

[CRX772]

Was getting on the hwy today and got a oil pressure light.

Pulled over as soon as I could but I heard some rod knock right as I came to a stop.

You guys know any good sites for ordering used motors?

Trying to figure out if it would be worth it to rebuild/replace the motor.

Lmk what you guys think!

thx in advance

[FatMongo]

Was getting on the hwy today and got a oil pressure light.

Pulled over as soon as I could but I heard some rod knock right as I came to a stop.

You guys know any good sites for ordering used motors?

Trying to figure out if it would be worth it to rebuild/replace the motor.

Lmk what you guys think!

thx in advance

Any 2.0 with mileage on it is going to be trash or close to trash anyway. Just go ahead and rebuild. Likely what you are hearing is a loose & worn shaft on the oil pump that is causing the oil pump to work at reduced capacity (hence your oil light).

Heres what mine looked and sounded like when my car was acting just like yours:



Here's my thread detailing the experience:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...noise-tell-you

[Theiceman]

unlikely rod knock, i agree with above , oil pump assm.

[xRenesis]

For what its worth, when my rod bearing was going out, it took about 30 miles of driving at 80mph before oil pressure fell out. Noticeable sign besides having an aftermarket oil gauge, oil temp was running considerably hot.

Oil pump can at least be taken out with motor still in, albeit a pain.

[Cyrik]

I understand where @FatMongo is coming from but if it were my car I would just swap the engine (again). You can find plenty of decent BPG/BWT engines on car-part.com for cheap, plus this will give you an opportunity to replace parts that WILL fail eventually (like the plastic coolant flange on the back of the cylinder head, for example). The key is finding an engine without a ton of miles on it.

Back to reality, it really comes down to how much time and money you wanna spend, and if you see yourself driving the car til the wheels fall off or want to move onto something else in the near future. I personally made the decision to swap my engine when I had a similar issue, no regrets. I've only actually NEEDED to work on the car a total of 2 times since then(one of those times was recently and not engine related). It's been ~3 years since I did that.

Loosening the subframe to get to the oil pan will require an alignment once you're done, and if you re-use the subframe bolts, the car will creak when you take corners. Not worth it imo.

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[FatMongo]

Oil pump can at least be taken out with motor still in, albeit a pain.

Having pulled a 2.0 out of a B7 multiple times and having pulled the oil pan off the engine with it still in the car just ONCE, I would say I'd rather pull the engine - unless you have a lift - thats the only way I would ever do the oil pump with the engine in the car. Doing it on jackstands is miserable.

[Theiceman]

Having pulled a 2.0 out of a B7 multiple times and having pulled the oil pan off the engine with it still in the car just ONCE, I would say I'd rather pull the engine - unless you have a lift - thats the only way I would ever do the oil pump with the engine in the car. Doing it on jackstands is miserable.

and this alone is why that assembly is sometimes the death knell for that car.

[Cyrik]

I honestly feel sorry for OP, just got the car and we're already talking engine swaps...

I would say I'd rather pull the engine - unless you have a lift - thats the only way I would ever do the oil pump with the engine in the car. Doing it on jackstands is miserable.

Agreed.

[CRX772]

Thank you everyone for your input and knowledge, much appreciated

Back to reality, it really comes down to how much time and money you wanna spend, and if you see yourself driving the car til the wheels fall off or want to move onto something else in the near future. I personally made the decision to swap my engine when I had a similar issue, no regrets. I've only actually NEEDED to work on the car a total of 2 times since then(one of those times was recently and not engine related). It's been ~3 years since I did that.

At this point in the game I'm looking to keep it for as long as possible as a daily, --IF-- I can make it semi-reliable. Everything apart from the motor is in excellent condition and it handles great on the road. Was just looking on car-part.com, seems like they do have some good deals. Is that where you sourced your motor? Also would I need one to match my year exactly or would anything from the B7 chassis suffice?

Anyways, here is the breakdown from last night, needless to say I'm confused.

-Was driving to set monitors for inspection
-As I was getting on hwy I went WOT and I could hear some strange rattling as redline was approached
-Got low oil pressure light on dash after I hit 5th gear
-Pulled over asap to check engine bay, no leaks, low oil pressure light gone, motor still sounds healthy
-Limped it to nearby parking lot, no cels, no oil pressure light, but knocking can be heard
-Thought for sure it was rod kock and called for a tow truck (3pm)
-Tow truck arrives (7pm) and I explain what happened
-Turn out truck driver is a tech and owns a A4 B7 as well, what are the odds and we share knowledge and information
-Start the car to show him the noise and at idle the motor sounds 100% healthy
-When the car is revved to 1200~2000 loud knocking can be heard and felt from the head
-We are able to determine that the noise is not coming from the bottom end and 100% from the head
-Maybe its a loose oil baffle in the valve cover?
-Im hoping its an easy fix but that low oil pressure light has me concerned

Prev owner had pulled the motor and did lots of work to it with proof including,
NEW PARTS:
-Oil pump
-HPFP and follower
-PCV valve
-Gaskets all the way around
-Comp checked at 170 all cyl
-Diverter Valve
-New head with low miles
-Rear coolant passage

Possible problems?
-Lifters
-Valve cover baffle
-Bad valve/valves
-Timing chain tensioner

Notes:
-The low oil pressure message has not returned and does not come back when revved
-When revved to around 1500~2000 and throttle is let off, knocking is more pronounced
-Knocking sounds like metal on metal contact which leads me to believe its not the valve cover baffle

The tow truck driver knows another tech who specializes in Audis, and he recommended I take it to him to look at it

[Jayz691]

Having pulled a 2.0 out of a B7 multiple times and having pulled the oil pan off the engine with it still in the car just ONCE, I would say I'd rather pull the engine - unless you have a lift - thats the only way I would ever do the oil pump with the engine in the car. Doing it on jackstands is miserable.

Did mine on Jack stands. Wasn't easy, but didn't think it was THAT bad. Engine support bar, and drop subframe completely. Also did poly subframe bushings while it was hanging there. Id kill to have a lift for half my projects. Or even a garage, lol.
But this does give me confidence for when I do my engine rebuild, if ya say engine pull is easier

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[Cyrik]

NEW PARTS:
-Oil pump
-HPFP and follower
-PCV valve
-Gaskets all the way around
-Comp checked at 170 all cyl
-Diverter Valve
-New head with low miles
-Rear coolant passage

This list is just about everything you would need to repair a catastrophic cam follower failure. Either the work on the head was done incorrectly OR you have yet another cam follower failure. You mentioned the car was tuned in your last thread, do you know how long it's been since a new cam follower has been put in? You have to change them more frequently if you're tuned because of the extra demand in fuel. It's design was flawed from the factory and wears over time. Few years ago recalls were issued and warranties were extended because everyone's engines were blowing up... which is why you'll never see that item on a maintenance schedule. If the cam wears all the way through it sends metal straight through the head, down to the sump and plugs the intake screen to your oil pump, causing low oil pressure, causing knocking.

I'm not immediately saying this is what happened, but the sound in video 2 is not something you wanna hear..... Something broke. Cam chain tensioner would be my next guess if the parts were moved over from the old head. These don't explain your low oil pressure though.

Also side-note your oil pressure switch won't trigger at idle, for all you know it's running 3 psi right now, I'd start with getting an oil pressure gauge on the car and checking the cam follower before anything else (these are quick and somewhat easy to do).

[Theiceman]

get that rear timing cover off and look.. could have popped the tensioner for the timing chain. stop running it

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[CRX772]

This list is just about everything you would need to repair a catastrophic cam follower failure. Either the work on the head was done incorrectly OR you have yet another cam follower failure. You mentioned the car was tuned in your last thread, do you know how long it's been since a new cam follower has been put in?

I spoke to the prev owner about it, the original reason why he pulled the motor was because the cam chain had snapped.

The follower was replaced with the new HPFP which was less than 2k miles ago. How often should the follower be changed? (I thought it was around every 30k or so)

Also the car has never been tuned to my knowledge, I was considering getting one to code out rear o2 but the spacer worked fine.

Also side-note your oil pressure switch won't trigger at idle, for all you know it's running 3 psi right now, I'd start with getting an oil pressure gauge on the car

Yes I would like to do this asap. Do you know where there is a good place to tap in?

I wonder if there are any good DIYs on here for a oil gauge install.

[Cyrik]

Thank you everyone for your input and knowledge, much appreciated
At this point in the game I'm looking to keep it for as long as possible as a daily, --IF-- I can make it semi-reliable. Everything apart from the motor is in excellent condition and it handles great on the road. Was just looking on car-part.com, seems like they do have some good deals. Is that where you sourced your motor? Also would I need one to match my year exactly or would anything from the B7 chassis suffice?

It is indeed where I got mine from, if I remember correctly I paid ~$1500 with a $250 core charge, denied the core charge and sold the head to a friend that needed one for his mk5 GTI for $400 🤣

Anyways, judging by your silver valve cover you have the BPG Engine, but is it Auto (Tiptronic) or a CVT/manual? Tiptronics came with slightly different cranks so putting in a manual or CVT-based engine won't work if you have the Tiptronic. Other than that everything should be the same.

[CRX772]

It is indeed where I got mine from, if I remember correctly I paid ~$1500 with a $250 core charge, denied the core charge and sold the head to a friend that needed one for his mk5 GTI for $400 🤣

Nice that's a good deal, how many miles on it?

Anyways, judging by your silver valve cover you have the BPG Engine, but is it Auto (Tiptronic) or a CVT/manual?

Tip

[Cyrik]

Also the car has never been tuned to my knowledge, I was considering getting one to code out rear o2 but the spacer worked fine.

Totally mis-read that post, my bad hahaha. Anyways 30k is a bit of a stretch for a stock tune in my opinion but you should be fine. I'm Stage 1 JHM and replace mine every 3 oil changes for reference.

The best place to tap into with a mechanical gauge is from where the oil pressure switch sits, there's a thread here on everything: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...cussion-Thread

You have a TIP car, if/when you're on the phone with whoever you're sourcing your engine from just ask if it's from an auto or manual 👍 make sure it's an auto that was AWD.

My 2nd engine had 103k on it.

[vce1232000]

Imo source a low mileage motor to in. you can use a manual crank engine in the tip transmission. Ive done it to my avant. They even make an adapter you can use now. I just straight dug out the pilot bearing and bolted the flex plate on. No issues. You also can use a CVT FWD engine also

[DansB6]

Replace the engine, these engines are cheap, at this point you should be able to find a replacement engine at a local pick n pull.

[Gowking]

Another source for engines is LKQ. They have photos of the vehicle so you can get an idea how well they were maintained. Look for a low mileage engine from a car that was wrecked in the side or rear.

[Cyrik]

Another source for engines is LKQ. They have photos of the vehicle so you can get an idea how well they were maintained. Look for a low mileage engine from a car that was wrecked in the side or rear.

I would be hesitant to source an engine from them since their engines are usually much more expensive with no noticeable quality improvements... This is coming from personal experience. Story time.

Back when I worked in a shop we sourced a presumed-to-be low mileage 4.7 V8 for an older Jeep Grand Cherokee through LKQ. The long block they sent us had micro-cracks galore ALL over one of the cylinder heads, it only ever ran on 7 cylinders. Turned a ~15 hour job into a 30-40+ hour job. Customer was absolutely livid when we told him his Jeep was going to take an extra week to get ANOTHER engine... Until he stepped in the shop a couple days later and saw both engines sitting on the ground, seeing how much work we were doing to the damn thing. The Advance Auto Parts engine we sourced after this was in WAY better shape, cheaper, and actually ran correctly.

Maybe we just got unlucky, but from what I understand that company isn't what it used to be. We never worked with LKQ after this. I could just be talking out my ass here, but that's my experience.

Imo source a low mileage motor to in. you can use a manual crank engine in the tip transmission. Ive done it to my avant. They even make an adapter you can use now. I just straight dug out the pilot bearing and bolted the flex plate on. No issues. You also can use a CVT FWD engine also

I didn't know it was as simple as throwing in an adapter to get a Manual/CVT Engine with a Tip Transmission. Is this something that's come around in the last couple years? Always thought it was worth just matching everything rather than jumping through a few extra hoops with the crank.

[PhireSideZA]

I didn't know it was as simple as throwing in an adapter to get a Manual/CVT Engine with a Tip Transmission. Is this something that's come around in the last couple years? Always thought it was worth just matching everything rather than jumping through a few extra hoops with the crank.

I am also pretty interested now. I have a car with the CVT, but would love to throw the Tiptronic tranny on there (but forgo the propshaft and diff to drive the rear wheels) as I am sure that would basically keep it FWD with the better slush transmission?

Sorry OP for your bad luck with your engine. I've been without my car since August, if it helps at all. Went in for valve stem seals, and stayed for four more months thanks to an engine rebuild. I feel your pain!

[Theiceman]

Just going to state the obvious here.. if you put a replacement engine in , you have zero idea where it is at for timing belt, timing chain , tensioner, oil burning , etc. For me, replacing an engine is a very last resort , not a first.

[Jayz691]

I would be hesitant to source an engine from them since their engines are usually much more expensive with no noticeable quality improvements... This is coming from personal experience. Story time.

Back when I worked in a shop we sourced a presumed-to-be low mileage 4.7 V8 for an older Jeep Grand Cherokee through LKQ. The long block they sent us had micro-cracks galore ALL over one of the cylinder heads, it only ever ran on 7 cylinders. Turned a ~15 hour job into a 30-40+ hour job. Customer was absolutely livid when we told him his Jeep was going to take an extra week to get ANOTHER engine... Until he stepped in the shop a couple days later and saw both engines sitting on the ground, seeing how much work we were doing to the damn thing. The Advance Auto Parts engine we sourced after this was in WAY better shape, cheaper, and actually ran correctly.

Maybe we just got unlucky, but from what I understand that company isn't what it used to be. We never worked with LKQ after this. I could just be talking out my ass here, but that's my experience.




I didn't know it was as simple as throwing in an adapter to get a Manual/CVT Engine with a Tip Transmission. Is this something that's come around in the last couple years? Always thought it was worth just matching everything rather than jumping through a few extra hoops with the crank.

Its not something you can buy, but theres a thread on here that shiws how to do it. Using a new Tip bushing, and having(or doing yourself) 3mm milled off the outside diam(1.5mm all around). Fits in where the pilot bearing would go, to keep everything nice. Some just bolt the flex on, but I wouldn't trust that, lol.

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[mc_hotmail]

Prev owner had pulled the motor and did lots of work to it with proof including,
NEW PARTS:
-Oil pump

@CRX772 Hope he didn't lie to you and also cleaned the oil pickup. Otherwise, check out this thread from almost 2 years back:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14397400

I did that from down under -- lowering the subframe to remove the oil pan.

[vce1232000]

. Some just bolt the flex on, but I wouldn't trust that, lol.

thats exactly what I did ......................

[Cyrik]

@CRX772 Hope he didn't lie to you and also cleaned the oil pickup. Otherwise, check out this thread from almost 2 years back:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14397400

I did that from down under -- lowering the subframe to remove the oil pan.

if it really was a new oil pump assembly it's possible the pump came with the updated pickup tube with the bypass valve. With a cam follower failure you'd be able to clean any sludge visible in the pan. From my understanding the updated pickup opens the bypass valve if the screen is clogged. Wonder what oil weight OP is using?

Another thing too, OP states "new cylinder head with low miles". This engine has been nearly completely apart before, sludge doesn't seem likely to me. OP can you elaborate on this? If you publish the whole documentation on this we could know for sure.

[Cyrik]

Its not something you can buy, but theres a thread on here that shiws how to do it. Using a new Tip bushing, and having(or doing yourself) 3mm milled off the outside diam(1.5mm all around). Fits in where the pilot bearing would go, to keep everything nice. Some just bolt the flex on, but I wouldn't trust that, lol.

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Ah so it is a bit of DIY. Good to know if you don't have any options other than Manual/CVT engines. What about the other way around?

[vce1232000]

how to a modified tiptronic bushing into a manual crank https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-engines/page3

[Cyrik]

I am also pretty interested now. I have a car with the CVT, but would love to throw the Tiptronic tranny on there (but forgo the propshaft and diff to drive the rear wheels) as I am sure that would basically keep it FWD with the better slush transmission?

Sorry OP for your bad luck with your engine. I've been without my car since August, if it helps at all. Went in for valve stem seals, and stayed for four more months thanks to an engine rebuild. I feel your pain!

Yeah finding a parts car hit in the front or something would probably be the most cost-effective way to go about that (and pray nothing with the drivetrain is broken lmao) but should be totally do-able. Tip trans won't work without the driveshaft/rear diff btw, someone posted info on it a while back.

With that said, did you know there's a FWD Manual you can swap in? Didn't know they sold em in the US til I worked on one but they're out there!

I'll stop with all the replies now haha sorry

[aluthman]

Having pulled a 2.0 out of a B7 multiple times and having pulled the oil pan off the engine with it still in the car just ONCE, I would say I'd rather pull the engine - unless you have a lift - thats the only way I would ever do the oil pump with the engine in the car. Doing it on jackstands is miserable.

With a manual car, I agree. With a tiptronic car, I would still just drop the pan.

[Jayz691]

thats exactly what I did ......................

I know, but I wouldn't. Ya got lucky. Its easy enough(with recent findings) to make a bushing.

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[vce1232000]

I know, but I wouldn't. Ya got lucky. Its easy enough(with recent findings) to make a bushing.

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if that was able when i would have purchased it . just for the peace of mine. my friends shop did a few of these the same way with no issues. reason why I just went with it