Dyno for APR Stage 1 to APR Stage 2

[wootwoot]

2016 A6 3.0t 91 octane

The before chart is APR Stage 1 with a TCU tune from Berk. The after is APR Stage 2, a 187mm crank pulley, Merc Racing high capacity heat exchanger, CWA 100 running at 100%, and new spark plugs. The HP/Torque numbers at the bottom are flip flopped.

[McNeil]

Thanks for sharing your results here. I’m sure this will be helpful to many.


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[Patrick Matte]

2016 A6 3.0t 91 octane

The before chart is APR Stage 1 with a TCU tune from Berk. The after is APR Stage 2, a 187mm crank pulley, Merc Racing high capacity heat exchanger, CWA 100 running at 100%, and new spark plugs. The HP/Torque numbers at the bottom are flip flopped.

why didn't you do the run in 93 oct?


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[wootwoot]

why didn't you do the run in 93 oct?


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We only have 91 octane here.

[ActiveMonkey]

Just trying to clarify, are these crank HP numbers? 445 HP / 374 TQ

[wootwoot]

Just trying to clarify, are these crank HP numbers? 445 HP / 374 TQ

Yes. Since all dynos read differently I wouldn't read too much into peak numbers though. The reason I ran the dyno before/after was to show the gains made from stage 2. When reading the forum about stage 2 there were a number or reviews where people said they didn't feel the difference from stage 1. Clearly there is a very tangible difference, at least when upgrading to a 187mm pulley.

[WatchMeSpend]

Yes. Since all dynos read differently I wouldn't read too much into peak numbers though. The reason I ran the dyno before/after was to show the gains made from stage 2. When reading the forum about stage 2 there were a number or reviews where people said they didn't feel the difference from stage 1. Clearly there is a very tangible difference, at least when upgrading to a 187mm pulley.

So a crank pulley and no upper pulley or am I missing something? the charts look similar in HO curve to what APR says. Just my .02 cents with brands like IE and 034 is they seem to have such an aggressive Stage 1, when people go Stage 2 DP, it doesn't look like much was left on the table to be gained. I went APR Stage 1 to APR Stage 2 DP skipping the middle APR Stage 2 SP. Nobody that got in the car didn't notice the low down punch over Stage 1. Stage 1 stock pulleys pulled more like a turbo up top before the stock TCU cut it off at the knees.

I have 93 Octane here, so I went from a 91 Stg 1 to a 93 Stg 2 DP. I'm used to driving V8s with instant throttle response and the DP is delivering that.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Yes. Since all dynos read differently I wouldn't read too much into peak numbers though. The reason I ran the dyno before/after was to show the gains made from stage 2. When reading the forum about stage 2 there were a number or reviews where people said they didn't feel the difference from stage 1. Clearly there is a very tangible difference, at least when upgrading to a 187mm pulley.

FWIW I went from stage 1 (93 octane) to stage 2 single and noticed the difference on my butt dyno. Then, I had a Berk TCU tune, and felt the upgrade again. For a 4200lb lux/sport vehicle, this thing moves very well.

Thank you for the dyno, it’s nice to see the real numbers on a real car in real, every day circumstances!!


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[wootwoot]

So a crank pulley and no upper pulley or am I missing something? the charts look similar in HO curve to what APR says. Just my .02 cents with brands like IE and 034 is they seem to have such an aggressive Stage 1, when people go Stage 2 DP, it doesn't look like much was left on the table to be gained. I went APR Stage 1 to APR Stage 2 DP skipping the middle APR Stage 2 SP. Nobody that got in the car didn't notice the low down punch over Stage 1. Stage 1 stock pulleys pulled more like a turbo up top before the stock TCU cut it off at the knees.

I have 93 Octane here, so I went from a 91 Stg 1 to a 93 Stg 2 DP. I'm used to driving V8s with instant throttle response and the DP is delivering that.

Just an upgraded crank pulley. I'm hesitant to go further than this on the CREC due to the clutch issues that some have experienced and I haven't figured out what to do with the factory cats. Overall, the driving experience is much improved. Off the line performance, partial throttle, and highway passing all feel much more confident with the added low/mid range torque.

[RLCree]

How much did you spend to go from one stage to the next?

[Patrick Matte]

Just an upgraded crank pulley. I'm hesitant to go further than this on the CREC due to the clutch issues that some have experienced and I haven't figured out what to do with the factory cats. Overall, the driving experience is much improved. Off the line performance, partial throttle, and highway passing all feel much more confident with the added low/mid range torque.

You should contact Shane Horning, he can weld your clutch.

Good move to dyno stage 1 vs stage 2! Great test.

I got you for the 91 octane.


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[WatchMeSpend]

Just an upgraded crank pulley. I'm hesitant to go further than this on the CREC due to the clutch issues that some have experienced and I haven't figured out what to do with the factory cats. Overall, the driving experience is much improved. Off the line performance, partial throttle, and highway passing all feel much more confident with the added low/mid range torque.

So, what software are you running then? The Stage 2 dual pulley or the Stage 2 single pulley? I have to put it out there that I dislike the "Stage" terminology because people try to compare products based on just a name, not what it cost and does. Because of this, it's kind of important to know which tune and octane you are running so people can make the best decision. Apparently the CREC clutch material worn out message appears on everybody's CREC tuned or not. Any CREC owners reading this, did you kill your cats tuned or untuned or is all good, tuned or untuned. I ask because a lot of people killing them have pre facelift cars with high mileage and a tune, or nothing at all.

Thanks for doing this BTW

[wootwoot]

How much did you spend to go from one stage to the next?

Around 1500 in labor, admittedly I go to a more expensive shop but they do great work. I bought the parts over time so I don't have exact pricing.

[wootwoot]

You should contact Shane Horning, he can weld your clutch.

Good move to dyno stage 1 vs stage 2! Great test.

I got you for the 91 octane.


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Shane is definitely the man for that and I have considered it but from what I understand the car will throw a CEL with a welded clutch. I'm not aware of any tunes that will code that out yet.

[ActiveMonkey]

So, what software are you running then? The Stage 2 dual pulley or the Stage 2 single pulley? I have to put it out there that I dislike the "Stage" terminology because people try to compare products based on just a name, not what it cost and does. Because of this, it's kind of important to know which tune and octane you are running so people can make the best decision. Apparently the CREC clutch material worn out message appears on everybody's CREC tuned or not. Any CREC owners reading this, did you kill your cats tuned or untuned or is all good, tuned or untuned. I ask because a lot of people killing them have pre facelift cars with high mileage and a tune, or nothing at all.

Thanks for doing this BTW

My 2016 (CREC) just hit 100k and has been tuned for the last ~20k miles. No cat or supercharger clutch issues yet.

[wootwoot]

So, what software are you running then? The Stage 2 dual pulley or the Stage 2 single pulley? I have to put it out there that I dislike the "Stage" terminology because people try to compare products based on just a name, not what it cost and does. Because of this, it's kind of important to know which tune and octane you are running so people can make the best decision. Apparently the CREC clutch material worn out message appears on everybody's CREC tuned or not. Any CREC owners reading this, did you kill your cats tuned or untuned or is all good, tuned or untuned. I ask because a lot of people killing them have pre facelift cars with high mileage and a tune, or nothing at all.

Thanks for doing this BTW

APR's stage 2 tune is universal, it will adapt to any pulley ratio. With the 187mm crank I'm slightly under a 3.0 pulley ratio.

[RLCree]

Around 1500 in labor, admittedly I go to a more expensive shop but they do great work. I bought the parts over time so I don't have exact pricing.

You're probably looking at another ~1200 on parts. Big bill for 40hp. As long as you're happy.

[DetroitV6]

How much did you spend to go from one stage to the next?

I'm 187mm crank on stock cooling at the moment with 034 software. Michigan winter right now is the stuff of legends (IATs recover in 60 secs).

Here are my costs for Stage 1 to Stage 2 upgrade on 034 w/ stock cooling:

Software upgrade to Stage 2: $100
CTS Turbo 187mm crank pulley: $305
Pulley installation labor: $250

Yes, it's worth much more than that. 034 Stage 1 pulls hard but pissed me off. Stage 2 with a 187mm crank makes it look like a joke

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

You're probably looking at another ~1200 on parts. Big bill for 40hp. As long as you're happy.

I did APR stage 2 SC pulley. Pulley, belt and 30 min of my time. Parts maybe $150. Upgrade via APR was about $200, plus 30-60 min labor. All in my upgrade was less than $500. But I didn’t cooling done yet!


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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Shane is definitely the man for that and I have considered it but from what I understand the car will throw a CEL with a welded clutch. I'm not aware of any tunes that will code that out yet.

I’d the car is in sport and dynamic, does the pulley stay engaged full time? I wonder if that would help on wear….

Unfortunately, bigger power typically = bigger maintenance $$$


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[wootwoot]

You're probably looking at another ~1200 on parts. Big bill for 40hp. As long as you're happy.

It's much cheaper than driving a 2018 A6, big bill, but as long as you're happy.

[wootwoot]

I’d the car is in sport and dynamic, does the pulley stay engaged full time? I wonder if that would help on wear….

Unfortunately, bigger power typically = bigger maintenance $$$


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In S mode the supercharger stays engaged so the clutch shouldn't be an issue from my understanding.

[2k16A6]

I’d the car is in sport and dynamic, does the pulley stay engaged full time? I wonder if that would help on wear….

Unfortunately, bigger power typically = bigger maintenance $$$


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My understanding is that, yes, in dynamic and transmission in “S” the clutch is engaged full time.

Also agree with the post above that the clutch always shows “wear limit reached.” I bought my car with about 19k miles, untuned and it showed “wear limit reached” then. I don’t have any real symptoms of the clutch wearing out, but I hate how I can feel it engage if I’m cruising along and want to give it a little throttle, I can feel the clutch engage and almost surge. Became more apparent when I changed my intake and can hear the sc whine suddenly kick in. I guess the audible clue made it more obvious and now I hate it lol. Really wish tunes coded out the cel for a welded clutch

[RLCree]

I did APR stage 2 SC pulley. Pulley, belt and 30 min of my time. Parts maybe $150. Upgrade via APR was about $200, plus 30-60 min labor. All in my upgrade was less than $500. But I didn’t cooling done yet!


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My shop quoted me 900 for the Merc Cooler installed, so there's some food for thought.

It's much cheaper than driving a 2018 A6, big bill, but as long as you're happy.

Lol, I didn't mean that as an insult. Just seems like quite a bit more money and less return than I'd be happy with. Although I'm planning on adding a bigger HE anyway, so I guess from that point it isn't that much.

[WatchMeSpend]

I’d the car is in sport and dynamic, does the pulley stay engaged full time? I wonder if that would help on wear….

Unfortunately, bigger power typically = bigger maintenance $$$


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Supposedly , yes and you can see it in VCDS or something similar. I usually don't floor the car in comfort or auto because I imagine the car applying the clutch under load. When I really want to pass, I just pull a shifter paddle. I can drive in comfort without getting pissed off or wanting to put it into sport because I run a Berk tweak on the transmission. Since I have turned on the track timer and can see the oil temps, I'm also more conscious about flooring the car until I see the temps come up. I've driven a few high HP cars in the past and I tend to drive the more powerful ones a bit more carefully. I'm not going to try to race everything, so I'm not usually beating on the car. People with Hondas, spank their cars all day long, either trying to prove a point (looking at Accord drivers) or trying to feel some kind of sensation that makes the car feel faster than it is. If you are going to the track 3 days a week, you already know what you signed up for.

[DetroitV6]

I think most people plan to go Stage 2 eventually once they realize what it does for the car. The year I spent with Stage 1 was cool, and I got it for a great price with 034's black friday sale, but I am much happier with my car now running Stage 2 despite the larger relative cost