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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2020
    AZ Member #
    539978
    Location
    Ca.

    Backward build thread

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    Hey all, hoping maybe someone has some experience in this arena. I bought a car with a built 2.0, but living in the sunshine state I am wanting to tame the car down and make it more friendly to smog, etc.. Hypothetically speaking, if I went back to very stock, say k03s or f21 (I have one in the garage) with stock maf, intake etc…. Say I just wanted to drive it with stock tuning and stock injector size, is there a way to make sure the 2.0 displacement won’t be running lean?

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings RallyeBourne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 10 2013
    AZ Member #
    122909
    Location
    San Diego County, CA

    I think it’d be easier to just swap back in an OEM motor, if I’m honest.

    Theoretically, maybe? But I think you’ll end up chasing gremlins for the rest of the cars life with that setup. You can get a stock engine from wreckers using Car-Part[.]com and it’d be like $500. You could probably even sell the stroker to recoup that money, too.


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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings RallyeBourne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 10 2013
    AZ Member #
    122909
    Location
    San Diego County, CA

    Also, pretty sure the Sunshine State is Florida, and your bio says CA, the Golden State. If that’s the case, depending on the year, you still won’t pass smog. Pre-‘00 cars still get the sniffer, and each pollutant has to fall within a range. More displacement means more pollutants going through means you’ll still pop dirty.


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  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2020
    AZ Member #
    539978
    Location
    Ca.

    Ha, when you are from the pnw, Cali is the sunshine state 😀

    The car is a 2001, so no sniffer I don’t think

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Three Rings QuattroBucc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 06 2020
    AZ Member #
    541263
    My Garage
    B5A4 1.8TQ g25-660, MK4 GLI K04
    Location
    Santa cruz, CA

    Lol when i moved down to cali from washington and tried to smog my car the guy screamed at me to get out of his shop with all my "illegal mods" like a pod filter instead of airbox, r8 coils instead of oem, front mount intercooler etc. It was a pain in the ass to get it ready for Cali smog, a few trips to pick n pull to get an OEM intercooler/crossbar/airbox etc and then they still failed my smog for having a boost guage hooked up. Unless you know a smog guy that will overlook the visual or "know a special guy" that can pass ur smog regardless your gonna have a hard time getting smogged in California, maybe other counties are more lenient but not here in the bay area

  6. #6
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2020
    AZ Member #
    570003
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska

    ECU running in closed loop mode primarily meters the A/F ratio in response to the MAF sensor and Lamda sensor. The larger displacement engine will draw 10% more air per revolution but the MAF will sense that increased flow and the ECU should be able to work out the fuel needed to achieve A/F ratio. When ECU runs in open loop (just using inputs from throttle position and intake pressure, without MAF) then the exact displacement would be critical to get right. My understanding is that open loop is only used by Bosch ME7.5 ECU as a fallback such as when the MAF is unplugged. The larger engine would likely run fine in closed loop with the stock 1.8t ECU, at least well enough to drive and get through the smog test. Possible that the stock ECU might have some difficulties if you tried to run it hard to RPM redline under full boost as the stock injectors might get maxed out?

    Smog checks generally just check the concentration of pollutants, not the mass-volume. A 10% larger engine is not necessarily producing different concentrations of pollutants that would be detected by sniffer, just 10% more exhaust overall (at WOT). If smog inspection station checked the block number and figured out it was a 2.0 or notices other hardware changes, then those might fail you.


    In order to compensate for the change in displacement and keep open loop operation working too, you would need to adjust in numerical constants in the ECU .bin file related to engine displacement; KUMSRL & KISRM . Search & refer to info in http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php to figure out how to do this. It would likely only take a knowledgeable ECU tuner a couple of minutes to make the needed change and this should not trigger any problems with smog inspection check (such as when emissions related features like SAI or O2 sensors are deleted).

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings A1 A2 German's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 28 2005
    AZ Member #
    5519
    My Garage
    Audi A4 B5, Audi Fox, Audi AMLS TT, GS450, CB175, CL175
    Location
    Tempe

    We all want pictures of said car and motor!

    200mb, potato, 11 p.m., under a lamp post, photos....don't count.

    Also the sunshine state would be Arizona....receiving more of it then any other state in the Union.

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2020
    AZ Member #
    539978
    Location
    Ca.

    Quote Originally Posted by grayjay View Post
    ECU running in closed loop mode primarily meters the A/F ratio in response to the MAF sensor and Lamda sensor. The larger displacement engine will draw 10% more air per revolution but the MAF will sense that increased flow and the ECU should be able to work out the fuel needed to achieve A/F ratio. When ECU runs in open loop (just using inputs from throttle position and intake pressure, without MAF) then the exact displacement would be critical to get right. My understanding is that open loop is only used by Bosch ME7.5 ECU as a fallback such as when the MAF is unplugged. The larger engine would likely run fine in closed loop with the stock 1.8t ECU, at least well enough to drive and get through the smog test. Possible that the stock ECU might have some difficulties if you tried to run it hard to RPM redline under full boost as the stock injectors might get maxed out?

    Smog checks generally just check the concentration of pollutants, not the mass-volume. A 10% larger engine is not necessarily producing different concentrations of pollutants that would be detected by sniffer, just 10% more exhaust overall (at WOT). If smog inspection station checked the block number and figured out it was a 2.0 or notices other hardware changes, then those might fail you.


    In order to compensate for the change in displacement and keep open loop operation working too, you would need to adjust in numerical constants in the ECU .bin file related to engine displacement; KUMSRL & KISRM . Search & refer to info in http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php to figure out how to do this. It would likely only take a knowledgeable ECU tuner a couple of minutes to make the needed change and this should not trigger any problems with smog inspection check (such as when emissions related features like SAI or O2 sensors are deleted).
    Thank you for this, still over my head, but I will dig in and learn what I can from this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by A1 A2 German View Post
    We all want pictures of said car and motor!

    200mb, potato, 11 p.m., under a lamp post, photos....don't count.

    Also the sunshine state would be Arizona....receiving more of it then any other state in the Union.
    Just another silver B5 A4

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