S6 Stage 3 Custom Tune Gains?

[ForceFed4g63]

Does anybody have any real world numbers or experience going from a DS1 OTS Stage 3 tune to a custom tune? Current mods are OEM RS7 turbos, SRM intakes, SRM flex fuel kit, SRM TCU tune, and DS1 OTS stage 3 tune. I just want to see if the extra cost for a custom tune is worth it over the OTS tunes.

[ANMS4]

you'll always make more on custom tune

[ForceFed4g63]

you'll always make more on custom tune

Yes, I'm well aware, was hoping for some real world feedback.

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

If you add LP lines and HPFP pistons you can run stage 4X (ALPHA) LP lines HPFP pistons calibration and at sea level target the limit of the stock pressure sensors if you have >E50. See DS1 user manual.

If you add upgraded pressure sensors, actuators and a custom tune you can push it further with some risk.

[ForceFed4g63]

If you add LP lines and HPFP pistons you can run stage 4X (ALPHA) LP lines HPFP pistons calibration and at sea level target the limit of the stock pressure sensors if you have >E50. See DS1 user manual.

If you add upgraded pressure sensors, actuators and a custom tune you can push it further with some risk.

Much appreciated John! I guess I should clarify on what exactly I'm looking for. I'm not going down the rabbit hole of Stage 4+ mods, as this is my wife's daily driver and my pockets are not bottomless. I think HPFP is the farthest I would go with this car, as I already have LP lines.

I've been around a few years now, read the manual many times, been involved in discussions and forums, etc. Really just looking for someone with a similar setup to see if they were happy with going the custom tune route.

Since you're here though John, I thought the Stage 4 files were strictly for bigger than OEM RS7 sized turbos? Also, I thought I've read before that there's a stage 3X file as well, where is that located, as I didn't see it in the listed options for files to choose from.

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

Stage 3X on an RS = Stage 4X on an S. We do use these on RS7 turbos with adequate octane, no one has damaged an engine doing so but the warnings in the user manual should be considered. Adding HPFP to run these would go faster. That is where I'd stop given what you say. There is no free lunch on a custom tune, it is a balance of octane, charge temperature, component wear, risk.

[ForceFed4g63]

Appreciate the info as always John!

[brandon88]

I am similarly modded to you ForceFed. I'm currently in the middle of custom tuning. If you are on the fence about it like i was, i would say go ahead and jump on over, its worth it IMO. Drivability and pedal feel is a HUGE plus. Although the OTS stage 3 was damn good, your tuner can work with you and can have your car feel however you want it.

Although i do not have the dyno numbers to prove it the ol' butt dyno is happy with the outcome so far. With the OTS tune 3rd and 4th gear starts out pulling great and then felt like it died off. Now, it starts the pull and keeps that feeling all through the gear..... with the exception of my high IAT's down here in the south.

BTW, i ive seen your name over in the 3.0T world before so im assuming that youve owned a modified 3.0T in the past. So if you know what the ZF8 feels like stock vs when berks gets ahold of it, OTS vs custom tune = ZF8 stock vs Berks. And thats the best i can explain it LOL

[ForceFed4g63]

I am similarly modded to you ForceFed. I'm currently in the middle of custom tuning. If you are on the fence about it like i was, i would say go ahead and jump on over, its worth it IMO. Drivability and pedal feel is a HUGE plus. Although the OTS stage 3 was damn good, your tuner can work with you and can have your car feel however you want it.

Although i do not have the dyno numbers to prove it the ol' butt dyno is happy with the outcome so far. With the OTS tune 3rd and 4th gear starts out pulling great and then felt like it died off. Now, it starts the pull and keeps that feeling all through the gear..... with the exception of my high IAT's down here in the south.

BTW, i ive seen your name over in the 3.0T world before so im assuming that youve owned a modified 3.0T in the past. So if you know what the ZF8 feels like stock vs when berks gets ahold of it, OTS vs custom tune = ZF8 stock vs Berks. And thats the best i can explain it LOL

Appreciate the info! Who are you working with for a custom tune? And yes I've had a few different heavily modified 3.0T's, currently also have a DP E40 S5 that's pretty fun but not nearly as quick as the S6!

[brandon88]

I have been working with Sean Civitano at PFA motorsports. Great tuner and just an all around great guy. He held and maybe still holds the S6 stock turbo world record.

I had a DP SQ5 that was an absolute blast of a daily driver but just doesnt touch the level of the S6/7 all around. So i feel ya

[ForceFed4g63]

I was thinking of going with Sean as well, either him or Kyle. They both seem to be the cream of the crop. How much is he charging for a custom tune? I don't think he advertises it.

[brandon88]

I cannot speak for Kyle or any other of the great tuners out there because i havent worked with them. That being said, from what i have gathered you cannot go wrong with either Kyle Leblanc or Sean. Both have a plethora of knowledge surrounding this platform.

As for their pricing, that will vary slightly depending on what kind of tuning you need done. Obviously a stage 4 TS1 meth injected monster is going to take more time than a stage 2 91 octane few bolt on. But i have spoken with Sean and his pricing and information should be back up on his website. Kyle's pricing is on his website as well.

Good luck and happy tuning

[LIL QIK]

If you add LP lines and HPFP pistons you can run stage 4X (ALPHA) LP lines HPFP pistons calibration and at sea level target the limit of the stock pressure sensors if you have >E50. See DS1 user manual.

If you add upgraded pressure sensors, actuators and a custom tune you can push it further with some risk.

John...I was told by another vendor that I couldn't run the Stage4x Alpha with cats.... can you clarify?

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

You can but you will see it is a bit leaner than the regular stage 4, but they run more boost than you would for endurance/circuit.

[LIL QIK]

You can but you will see it is a bit leaner than the regular stage 4, but they run more boost than you would for endurance/circuit.

ok...it sounds like you're saying I can....but it's not advised. Is that to say that the regular Stage4 OTS is ok with the cats? I read the stages in the manual and had assumed that all were ok with cats. So it surprised me when I was told I couldn't. Sorry, I just figure it's best to get it from the source. Thanks John.

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

What I am getting at are the warnings about the X maps (see manual for much more verbose reasons than I can type on my phone). All regular OTS maps are fine for cats and hard use.

[qcrazy]

Can confirm! I run the 4X Alpha on stock cats, no issues. Logs all look great!

[LIL QIK]

Can confirm! I run the 4X Alpha on stock cats, no issues. Logs all look great!

Thank you sir.

[OhioS6]

So with the set up with hpfp and downpipes you can run stage 4x? O.o on full e85?

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

So with the set up with hpfp and downpipes you can run stage 4x? O.o on full e85?

The user manual contains advice and warnings about using the Alpha X maps. They are examples for the user to log and understand which is why they are not directly flashable. The contents of them compared with OTS and the logs you get from them are where all the answers are. If this sounds evasive, it is, because it is drawing a clear line between what we think is reasonable tuning for hard use to meet our reliability requirements. The regular OTS maps increase boost in places by as much as 16 PSI over stock, 4X can be peaking 19 or 20 PSI over stock. At some point the thermodynamic and reliability pipers must be paid. There is a great difference between doing a drag or dyno pull for a result and expecting something to last 10 years driving it as hard as you like and that is why some people call our general OTS "conservative". They're not, they're as much as we think they can be pushed and showing no detectable deficit in reliability over many cars over many years.

Your logs will tell you how your fuel system is coping as you increase boost and ethanol content.

That all said we don't know of anyone damaging an engine on the Alpha X files flashed as is, but that gives us no signal to liberalize the recommendations that they are "specials". Some of our decisions are resulting in engine reliability at least 10 times higher than for practices commonly employed by popular VAG tuning.

[OhioS6]

Can i get a confirmation that when DS1 remains plugged in that it will adjust boost and timing for the octane used, after getting a custom tune?

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

Can i get a confirmation that when DS1 remains plugged in that it will adjust boost and timing for the octane used, after getting a custom tune?

No. A custom tuner can set it up however they like.

The usual would be that if using flex fuel with a flex fuel sensor that the content is used by a custom tune to alter many settings including and beyond boost and timing for the ethanol content. The usual would also be that knock control is active and that will automatically adjust timing, fuel and boost. It is also possible that a tuner could add custom code to change map switches automatically depending on knock feedback for different octanes, but I've not heard of any of them doing that even though the features are there.

[OhioS6]

So what if i just wanted to use the OTS mapping and coding, but just wanted my engine light turned off? I see you can do it with Tunerpro RT but they have since deleted the option for taking out the cats and o2s

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

We removed the option in 2020 due to EPA statements on delete devices.