Torque Factory Y-Pipe Introduction

[J. Moss]

Hello everyone,

We have been working on our inlet system for the 2.7 since 2020 and have just confirmed the first production run which should be ready to ship beginning of January 2023.

Our original configuration made 585 WHP (Dynojet and approximately 565 on a Mustang) at 26-27 psi. After development of Y-Pipe, inlets and MAF power was over 620 WHP (on a Mustang) at 32 psi with a power band to almost 8000 RPM’s.

Initial testing showed 62” of H2O at the inducer and with the Torque Factory parts this was reduced to 21”s with more power.

Here is a link to our induction section of our site that will be updated as parts becoming available. And, a link to some of the development, testing and reasoning.

Torque Factory Induction

Torque Factory Blog

















Edited 12/6/22 to add more images

[CLAY]

Is the listed price accurate?

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[J. Moss]

Is the listed price accurate?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Audizine Forum mobile app

Hello Clay,

The information for the full kit is here:
https://www.torque-factory.com/produ...33000000135667

[Silverex]

Do you have any back to back testing to other Y pipes?
Can you post the dyno graphs you have?

[ImolaAJL]

Interesting. But why not do back to back testing with same 27 or 32psi boost? Little confusing result...

[ss4]

Do you have any back to back testing to other Y pipes?
Can you post the dyno graphs you have?

Hey Silverex! We will be updating our website with logs and information from us, ETSPEC, and Adam from JAE in the next few days to a week. Any particular questions I can possibly answer?

[CELison]

Would be best to see an apples to apples comparison…

[Silverex]

Would be best to see an apples to apples comparison…

This^

Luckily swapping the Y pipe parts is a quick easy job.

[ss4]

Would be best to see an apples to apples comparison…

If the engine is not octane limited, boost can be increased without increasing the compressor pressure ratio. In this example boost would be higher, but the turbo would be at a comparable level of stress with increased flow.
Or you could keep the boost the same,and the benefits would be reduced turbine back pressure and less temperature rise. So probably some power gains at the same boost level but nothing crazy is my guess. To be honest, we never thought about dropping the boost level when on the EMD’s Mustang dyno… we were able to have increased boost at the same wastegate duty cycle. And make lots more power while the turbo didn’t work any harder than the previous 26-27psi.

[ss4]

This^

Luckily swapping the Y pipe parts is a quick easy job.

True, but the lower inlets play a role in this as well. Ours are 2.5” lower, 3” upper. So “the typical engine pull” on a B5S4 ;). We did some testing where the larger inlets were already installed and we were swapping Y-pipes, and seeing good gains.

[ss4]

Interesting. But why not do back to back testing with same 27 or 32psi boost? Little confusing result...

I posted a response about this, just didn’t quote your comment. Please let me know if you have any thoughts/questions.

[S4James]

any love for the HPX converted folks?

[ss4]

any love for the HPX converted folks?

We could possibly make an intake with the HPX MAF flange as a custom order or you could buy our entire kit less MAF. We don’t offer tuning solutions but our tuning partner (ETSPEC) was able to get the car to run perfectly smooth and idle on the stock Hitach sensor.

[Silverex]

True, but the lower inlets play a role in this as well. Ours are 2.5” lower, 3” upper. So “the typical engine pull” on a B5S4 ;). We did some testing where the larger inlets were already installed and we were swapping Y-pipes, and seeing good gains.

True!

Can we see some data on those results?

[ss4]

We could possibly make an intake with the HPX MAF flange as a custom order or you could buy our entire kit less MAF. We don’t offer tuning solutions but our tuning partner (ETSPEC) was able to get the car to run perfectly smooth and idle on the stock Hitach sensor.

I was corrected about the HPX MAF… It’s not recommended as our MAF housing is huge and works fine with Hitachi. The HPX “solution” was when people were running only 3-3.5” housings. Our tuner said the HPX MAF in our 4.5” housing would only be needed for 2000hp or something crazy.

[ss4]

True!

Can we see some data on those results?

Jeff Moss is updating the website with my data/logs this holiday week. Adding a little every day since he has the day job to focus on as well.

[oasis]

Nicely made and nice-looking piece :)

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[ss4]

Nicely made and nice-looking piece :)

Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using Tapatalk

Thanks! We spent a lot of time on making it look nice, be durable, and out flow everything we tested.

[CELison]

Did you change the n75 duty cycle or no?

[ss4]

Did you change the n75 duty cycle or no?

Duty cycle remains the same and boost goes up From the better pressure ratio. Blake at ETSPEC is our tuning partner on this and sure he will chime here or fb as well.

[S4James]

well. i was looking to retune my k24 setup anyhow... wouldnt mind some "free" power.

[ss4]

well. i was looking to retune my k24 setup anyhow... wouldnt mind some "free" power.

That’s a perfect time to do it as our kit requires a tune revision due to the MAF housing size.

[james 408]

might be worthwile to remember this isn't the first rodeo. what is the torque to rpm tradefoff side by side in an independent dyno run? rs4 y pipe... aftermarket... increased flow... we've been here before.

Apples to apples, boost/safety aligned, no shenanigans. let's be real here.

edit: here's my problem, this has been tested to death 15 years ago, we know what this does, within a range. And this more power on more boost and rpm on another day shit has nothing to with the price of corn here. there's no reason you can't shoot straight on this, it's a nice looking part, why all the extracurricular? we've got guys theory crafting flow rates and turbine ratios... this is... over the top.

[james 408]

actually, given the disingenuous nature of this advertising campaign I'm just going to go ahead and spill the beans based on the preponderance of evidence on similar parts:

this part likely gives slight gains up top, when tuned for it, at the expense of some low end. we're talking very negligible amounts. this has been shown time and again, and even these gains are fickle in nature, in both measurement sourcing, and reality.

Edit: please bear in mind I am not saying this is a bad product, but... let's not start citing *55hp gains from an intake as representative for the market, that's the implication here, and it's unrealistic. The fact your defending/doubling down on this claim.. like come on man.

[PwrWgn]

Could you share a little more about how this part is manufactured? Looks like some type of plastic, yes? Just curious - thanks.

[CELison]

actually, given the disingenuous nature of this advertising campaign I'm just going to go ahead and spill the beans based on the preponderance of evidence on similar parts:

this part likely gives slight gains up top, when tuned for it, at the expense of some low end. we're talking very negligible amounts. this has been shown time and again, and even these gains are fickle in nature, in both measurement sourcing, and reality.

Edit: please bear in mind I am not saying this is a bad product, but... let's not start citing *55hp gains from an intake as representative for the market, that's the implication here, and it's unrealistic. The fact your defending/doubling down on this claim.. like come on man.

Dr. Oz helped plan 9/11.

[S4James]

Are those CFM numbers with a filter in place?

[S4James]

oh nm... i see where the numbers are from now

https://myaudis4.com/2021/12/17/flow...pe-prototypes/

[james 408]

Dr. Oz helped plan 9/11.

You're telling me you think this isn't bullshit? here we go again. I'll just wait for someone else to test it instead of searching for ya. hopefully this gets debunked real quick.

[S4James]

Two guys i respect are testing/tuning this setup. I'm not yet convinced myself but I'd rather let the results speak for themselves.

[james 408]

the only thing you're gaining on this type of thing is top end. test it on a smaller frame turbo for the entire rev range. this isn't a new concept man. on high rpm large frame turbo builds you'll see bigger numbers, as with anything. but it's entirely misrepresentative in terms of net gains, per usual. And it's likely counterproductive for most of the market. I have a high degree of confidence in what data i've seen; audi, cosworth, and 20 years of aftermarket didn't just forget to test larger piping -- in fact i know they tested it.

[james 408]

TMI:

the 'whitepaper' on flowrates and pressure ratios makes a fatal flaw, it's using p/r ratios as if the tested part is in isolation. I'm sure the author is aware, but when the laymen start reading that crap... you get absurd conclusions.

Not only is there restrictions all the way through the system, but in the middle there's a little considered part called an engine. what happens to an engine when you open up flow all the way through? low rpm vs high rpm? what happens if you leave a restriction in there... what happens to your pressure ratio? what happens to your flow? you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out how this theory crafted nonsense is just that, unless it's the sole restriction (maybe test car it is, and maybe only shown wot up top of rpms). There's merrit to it, but you know who went through and opened up restrictions all accross the board? well cosworth, and well everybody who is worth anything as a tuner. and there's tradeoffs.

Now can i go and open up an entire system and leave a plugged air filter in there with rat turds in it, and remove that one restriction and gain 50hp? yes. Should i claim that my new K&N filter gave me 50hp? well no. Can i leave all the other restrictions and open that pipe up to 4 feet and because it's got 4x the flow it's got 4x the pressure ratio benefit? of course not. in fact, it will do pretty close to nothing. Which, unsurprisingly, is where we land when we start changing out isolated parts on the intake or exhaust track... unless it's the restriction, it does little more than nothing.

the obvious fallacy in logical support is being misapplied to a population of vehicles that differs from the test case. Most veterans of the community should know the basics of how an engine works, and what mods do. And even a 4 year old understands that if i pinch the end of your straw, what happens to the flow rate? what about the pressure ratio?


+50hp? cause the flow rate? the pressure ratio? get that b***h on a flow bench right now.

[ss4]

Could you share a little more about how this part is manufactured? Looks like some type of plastic, yes? Just curious - thanks.

Sure thing :) After all the CAD work was completed we had an aluminum 2 part mold made. The manufacturing process is Rotomold using a very durable cross-linked, polyethylene. (a type of plastic).
Jeff will be addressing more technical questions and adding data here on this thread and on our website soon.

[james 408]

i would advise a 'results not typical', show what might be typical, or describe when the product should show significant gains. There is case law that's pretty clear on this type of thing; not that you're gonna get sued but you should at least try to be in some degree of compliance. you can't legally modify non-included parts then attribute the gains, even if related, to the product. And you cannot represent results as typical that don't represent the target market. There's industry specific and generic case law that's well established. My beef is that you didn't even attempt to help buyers ascertain any degree of understanding on the product/market limitations and instead went in the opposite direction.

[ss4]

James408…. Is there a question we can answer for you? Seriously asking. I opted to not respond until now due to your aggressive responses like “bullshit, disingenuous, fallacy, shenanigans” and now “case law”? Please be civil. We HAVE done the homework, research, testing, and support/defend our findings. Sounds like you are telling me that the engineers at Borg Warner and Garrett Honeywell don’t know what they are talking about in regards to pressure ratios and restrictions to a turbocharger. I’m not an engineer, just a high level enthusiast that learned a lot over the years, what do you do for work as you’ve mentioned Audi and Cosworth?
This is not just an air filter change as it seems you are pointing towards. We tested the restrictions at various points of the system leading to the turbos. There is no downside or loss of power or torque anywhere, only positive, realistic, and noticeable power gains.
You mention something was tested 15years ago… Who, what, when? I’m an original B5S4 owner from 2001 and have been modifying it since. Jeff has been involved with VW and Audi Performance since the 90’s whether being his own company or others, and has even consulted for a large performance entity. Again, please be civil towards us and we are happy to share our repeatable results with you and the community.
Brent

[james 408]

That's fair, but what is the use for this product, what is the market, and what gains should people realistically expect? are there drawbacks?

Y pipes and every manner of ram air intake have been tested by many companies and individuals, going back to 2001. They have shown gains up top, especially when paired with manifolds, cams, larger turbos etc. This is associated with a loss of low end torque; and ram air tends to be more sensitive to heat soak in general. My response reflects the disconnect between the numbers previously presented, and the numbers you are claiming. No intake, to my knowledge, has ever produced 55 hp up top through a stock engine, not even close. There is a long history of claims in the industry, this vehicle included, of misrepresented information, including manufacturers numbers that don't match what is found once the product is installed and tested. So please clarify what people can expect and when.

[ss4]

Use of this product and market is for people that have a 2.7t with RS4 and larger turbochargers like RS6, etc, that are looking for more power and/or less stress on their turbochargers. Our test cars out in the field both have budget RS6 variant turbos and seeing great results; no drawbacks whatsoever. No loss of torque anywhere in the powerband, just more horsepower.
If we were dealing with a naturally aspirated engine the power gains would be little to none as everyone knows. But, we are dealing with a turbocharged engine and probably 6 feet of tubing from the air filter to the compressor inducer. The restrictions or "vacuum" on my car were ridiculously high (62" H2O) even with RS4 inlets and a 3.5" MAF/intake. Power was basically stuck at about 26-27psi due to the restrictions and horrible pressure ratio (or efficiency) of the turbo. Car ran excellent and even made 585whp on a DynoJet as it was. Our new intake system (air filter to turbos) dropped the restrictions from 62" to 21" H2O and in the turbo world, that is a huge performance gain with no additional stress on the turbo. We experienced an additional 5-6psi of boost with no changes to the drive pressure of the turbo. This means the turbo does not work any harder to make 32psi than the previous 26-27 After all this testing and validation is when we decided to make the tooling and invest in this product.
I do have some interesting information from a 2.7t group member who ran our restriction numbers and said, "the math checks out". I'd be happy to share if anyone would like to see it. Did we actually gain a good amount of power from this kit, yes. My car had the K24RS6 turbos, 2.8 intake cams, our valve spring/retainer kit, 2.7 heads, chinese rods, stock pistons, and our main bearing stud kit. For intake: I had a good size air filter, 3.5" MAF (also tried 4"), stock Y-pipe, and the "oversized" RS4 inlets heading to the turbos. Nothing ever changed on my car during all this testing other than the new intake parts and of course, a retune for the larger 4.5" MAF.

[S4James]

how closely would this line up with an X1 carbon intake? doesnt look even close from what i can see.

[RMode]

Here’s the right way to ultimately market and sell an $1600 or so Y pipe setup. It’s time consuming to an extent, and costs some cash.

If you’re saying RS6 and go, fine. Doesn’t
matter “whos” RS6 units at this point. Confirm this with such a car on a nice load based dyno, stock Y pipe. Video it, post it with the graph, and a log that shows AIT, RPM, Boost, N75 duty cycle, AFR. Ideally, I’d suggest using this with a big filter at the MAF housing (same brand as whatever you sell, in an appropriate ID. We know we can assume an 85mm MAF. Whatever boost it came in at.

2. Same car, swap an RS4 Y pipe in. Tune accordingly - dyno it, log it, video it, post it. Same boost.

3. Same car, swap your Y pipe setup. Since I assume you intend to sell most of these with your filter setup, include it. Dyno, log, video, repeat. Same
boost, then up the boost.

Now you’ve got a meaningful, useful data set without a lot of room for fluff.

Idc if it doesn’t show 55whp peak and associated torque. I doubt anyone else does. We all know significant gains when we see them. Enlist one of the known tuners. Just keep in consistent.

Lots of here have no budgets, or, let’s say, very generous ones. It’s not a matter of parting with cash. But you’re not going to get the old heads, or even the newer ones going after high output, to pony up that level of cash on the retail side. These days, we know all the data can be shown. Even those who aren’t going 10/10ths have a way to log their cars, and basically all use the same setup to do so.

Just my suggestion.


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[ss4]

how closely would this line up with an X1 carbon intake? doesnt look even close from what i can see.

Haven't seen the X1 intake so I can't speak on it. I have owned the 034 X34 intake and its nice product for lower power builds. Keep in mind the intake is just one piece in the puzzle of reducing restrictions; the Y-pipe and inlets play a large role as well. Our intake utilizes a 4.5inlet, and a filter that is 10" long; the intake tube and MAF is also 4.5" Once your car exceeds 500whp, a 3.5" MAF is not sufficient as MAF voltages get very high.