Broken Timing Chain Guide

[mug23]

Hello, I have pulled the motor in hoping to do the timing chain guide as they seem to failed. I pulled off the rear timing chain cover and the back cover for the head too. While I was taking the covers out, many pieces of the chain guide started to fall out. Looks like one guide shattered into many pieces. At the same time, I'm not able to rotate the crank much as it only move like less than 1/4 of a turn before it feels like it is hitting something inside the piston. Could it be hitting the valves since the timing now is all off?

I have attached few picture to show what's happening:

This seems to be ok.


Passenger side head. As you can see, the chain guide that shattered into many pieces is missing there


Driver's head. No issue there
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d030a188_c.jpg

The one that known to fail fell out too when I open the back cover
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f84f81cb_c.jpg

This is what fell out
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f9a699b1_c.jpg

Again, I cannot rotate the crank right now. It hits something which I'm not sure what it is hitting and therefore, I cannot get it into service mode or TDC? BTW, how do you link up the motor to be TDC or in service mode? Is it just by where the cams you can install the cam locking tool? What position the crank suppose to be in?

I have on order the timing chain kit from FCP Euro. I was thinking of just simply put in the 2 broken guide from the new ones I'm getting and see if I can rotate the motor and set it to TDC? What suggestion would you guy give so I can get this motor ready? I bought it used off someone and they said it was rotating but I guess I'll never know for sure. Someone suggest me to take the cams and head off and inspect the cylinder bore. What should I do?

Thank you.

[bennyc767]

Why are you trying to rotate the crankshaft? I haven't done 4.2 chains but every other engine I've done chains or belts you set the cyl. 1 at TDC and everything stays there throughout the entire job. If you're rotating the crank and don't have the valvetrain in time (i.e. chains on and tight) you will get contact with pistons and valves.

[mug23]

Why are you trying to rotate the crankshaft? I haven't done 4.2 chains but every other engine I've done chains or belts you set the cyl. 1 at TDC and everything stays there throughout the entire job. If you're rotating the crank and don't have the valvetrain in time (i.e. chains on and tight) you will get contact with pistons and valves.

How can you get to TDC without rotating the crank? Getting the piston to TDC requires rotating the crank, right?

Like I said in the post, I think the timing is way off from the broken guides. Therefore, I can't even get to TDC at all.

[Rol-co]

If i see the chain that tight i think you probably turned the engine the wrong way around.

I think the best way now is too set the pistons half way, take it all off (chains) and time each head, set cil 8 slowly at top and you should be getting the timing plug in.
(I remember it was cil 8 at top but check this first)

[mug23]

If i see the chain that tight i think you probably turned the engine the wrong way around.

I think the best way now is too set the pistons half way, take it all off (chains) and time each head, set cil 8 slowly at top and you should be getting the timing plug in.
(I remember it was cil 8 at top but check this first)

I'm not sure how to set the pistons half way as I can only turn the crank like few degrees and stops. Some say to pull all the cams out and the chains and re-time it again.

[Rol-co]

I'm not sure how to set the pistons half way as I can only turn the crank like few degrees and stops. Some say to pull all the cams out and the chains and re-time it again.

Probably because the timing is way off bank one, you can take the cams out indeed, then the valves are closed and should be possible too turn the crank 360. Half way you can try trough the spark plug hole.
It can be " stupid off", if so the best (safe) way is too pull the cams.

[mug23]

Probably because the timing is way off bank one, you can take the cams out indeed, then the valves are closed and should be possible too turn the crank 360. Half way you can try trough the spark plug hole.
It can be " stupid off", if so the best (safe) way is too pull the cams.

Thank you. I think I'm going to have to do it this way. Since I don't know these engines, how do you get TDC on the crank? Is it opening the bottom hole where the crank locking tool goes to and making sure you can see the dot or indent through the hole? That would make the crank TDC? Normal car crank there is a mark on the crank pulley and just line it up with the mark on the block or a plastic piece attached to the block.

[Rol-co]

Thank you. I think I'm going to have to do it this way. Since I don't know these engines, how do you get TDC on the crank? Is it opening the bottom hole where the crank locking tool goes to and making sure you can see the dot or indent through the hole? That would make the crank TDC? Normal car crank there is a mark on the crank pulley and just line it up with the mark on the block or a plastic piece attached to the block.

There is a paintmark at the pulley, like this.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...=1#post9613720

[Rol-co]

Maybe this can help a little

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_377.pdf

[BallnchainB6]

Yeah pull the cams off. The t30 bolts on the cam bridges can be very tight so make sure you have a strong t30. Don't mix up your bridges either. Also you should use the crank locking tool when setting your timing, don't trust the mark on the pulley. I think the manual says to rotate the crank 90 degrees backwards when installing the cams, could be wrong though.

[mug23]

Thank you everyone for input. I will need a service manual. Where is the best place to download it? Of course free would be awesome!

[bennyc767]

How can you get to TDC without rotating the crank? Getting the piston to TDC requires rotating the crank, right?

Like I said in the post, I think the timing is way off from the broken guides. Therefore, I can't even get to TDC at all.

Gotcha sorry I misread your post, I figured the motor was at TDC when you pulled it. Good luck with pulling the cams and getting her rebuilt!

[mug23]

Gotcha sorry I misread your post, I figured the motor was at TDC when you pulled it. Good luck with pulling the cams and getting her rebuilt!

Thank you.