Rods only

[lemonvr6]

Looking to do a mild 710 build. I’d like rods only for safety and to not touch the pistons. Street car, no drag just mixed use and occasional backroad action. Most severe use would be a multi gear pull. E85.

Anyone try this? Not worried about the pistons given the use case.

[Alex D]

Looking to do a mild 710 build. I’d like rods only for safety and to not touch the pistons. Street car, no drag just mixed use and occasional backroad action. Most severe use would be a multi gear pull. E85.

Anyone try this? Not worried about the pistons given the use case.

You could just change the connecting the rods but since you are already in there, its not a bad idea to change the pistons. You should never just drop rods in a motor no matter what many claim as "drop in" rods.

[John@Unitronic]

Rods with stock pistons would be an excellent choice to mitigate the noise byproduct of most aftermarket pistons.

[mtwallace85]

I also think this would be a pretty good idea; the pistons are what cause the noise and the rods are the first weak point. Win win situation as long as your power goals aren’t too high.

[o1turbo30v]

For a mild street build, i fully support.

[lemonvr6]

I also think this would be a pretty good idea; the pistons are what cause the noise and the rods are the first weak point. Win win situation as long as your power goals aren’t too high.

I’d take a flat 500 wheel tq and +6xx wheel. No need to push the midrange


I’ll “risk” the pistons at an elevated but moderate power level over slap/ false knock / ring sealing etc

[Potatohead_RS3]

Seems like a lot of work to not replace pistons but I understand why someone wouldn't want to do it. Obviously you need to make sure the rods are within a gram or two of the originals.

[mtwallace85]

Seems like a lot of work to not replace pistons but I understand why someone wouldn't want to do it. Obviously you need to make sure the rods are within a gram or two of the originals.

Can you explain why the rods would need to be almost the same weight as the OEM rods? I know my rod and piston aren’t that close to the OEM combo and I don’t think having OEM pistons would make a difference. Pretty sure you only need to make sure each of the rod, piston, ring combos need to be balanced by being the same weights.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Can you explain why the rods would need to be almost the same weight as the OEM rods? I know my rod and piston aren’t that close to the OEM combo and I don’t think having OEM pistons would make a difference. Pretty sure you only need to make sure each of the rod, piston, ring combos need to be balanced by being the same weights.

You also need the counterweights of the crankshaft to match.

[mtwallace85]

You also need the counterweights of the crankshaft to match.

Pretty sure they’d just need to balance the crankshaft then by removing/adding material the same way the rods and pistons are balanced. I don’t think any of the aftermarket kits weigh the same as stock so this would be a universal issue.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Pretty sure they’d just need to balance the crankshaft then by removing/adding material the same way the rods and pistons are balanced. I don’t think any of the aftermarket kits weigh the same as stock so this would be a universal issue.

Well, that's what I'm saying about it being a lot of work. I wouldn't really call it a "drop in" rod if the entire engine needs to be disassembled and (re)balanced.

[Alex D]

Well, that's what I'm saying about it being a lot of work. I wouldn't really call it a "drop in" rod if the entire engine needs to be disassembled and (re)balanced.

You’d be surprised how many people have slapped the rods in without measuring and then within a short period of time needing a entire rebuild and possibly causing further damage.

[Potatohead_RS3]

You’d be surprised how many people have slapped the rods in without measuring and then within a short period of time needing a entire rebuild and possibly causing further damage.

Unfortunately I am not surprised to hear that

[mtwallace85]

Well, that's what I'm saying about it being a lot of work. I wouldn't really call it a "drop in" rod if the entire engine needs to be disassembled and (re)balanced.

Oh, I don’t see anything “drop in” rods in previous posts. You said YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE they’re within a gram or 2 from stock, but they don’t, it’s just more work, and not even that much. No shop is going to charge 1 price for 1 brand and a different for another. Either way, not trying to argue, just trying to get the facts out, moving along.

[bucolic]

Nothing to add, just following this thread, love the idea OP, please keep us updated!

All along I thought I'd go hybrid turbo on stock motor but got scared when I heard about bent rods. I use my car just like OP, and I'm guessing those that actually experienced failures were/are pushing their cars much harder & at the track, but who knows... I wasn't/am not willing to take the risk I guess.

OP's plan sounds like a good one, again, please keep us updated. Maybe I could do this part of an engine build & not have to incur the cost of a full build, and again entertain the idea of a hybrid turbo...hmmmm

[TwistRate]

I wouldn't even open the motor up just to do rods. I think you are taking on more risk and cost than simply running that particular turbo on the stock hardware.

At this point in the game builders have uncovered what pistons make noise and which ones don't.

[8STTRS]

My pistons don't make any more noise than they did when it was stock. I would highly advise that while you're in there, that you take care of everything you should and do it once. Do it once, do it right.

[mtwallace85]

My pistons don't make any more noise than they did when it was stock. I would highly advise that while you're in there, that you take care of everything you should and do it once. Do it once, do it right.

Sorry if I missed it, but what pistons did you go with?

[lemonvr6]

My pistons don't make any more noise than they did when it was stock. I would highly advise that while you're in there, that you take care of everything you should and do it once. Do it once, do it right.

We discussing audible noise or logged false knock? Big difference

[brobst]

Maybe doing just rods wouldn't require a rebuild down the line

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Potatohead_RS3]

Oh, I don’t see anything “drop in” rods in previous posts. You said YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE they’re within a gram or 2 from stock, but they don’t, it’s just more work, and not even that much. No shop is going to charge 1 price for 1 brand and a different for another. Either way, not trying to argue, just trying to get the facts out, moving along.

Go ahead and do a rod swap with rods that are significantly heavier than stock (say, 10+ grams) with no other changes and let me know how that works out. This is basic engine knowledge.

[Alex D]

I wouldn't even open the motor up just to do rods. I think you are taking on more risk and cost than simply running that particular turbo on the stock hardware.

At this point in the game builders have uncovered what pistons make noise and which ones don't.

I’m not completely sold on a certain brand piston making more noise than the other. I’ve heard some built motors using various brands and some were quiet and some were loud. Only variable was the engine builder.

[mtwallace85]

Go ahead and do a rod swap with rods that are significantly heavier than stock (say, 10+ grams) with no other changes and let me know how that works out. This is basic engine knowledge.

Again, I don’t know where you got that scenario from because I never said anything like that, please read carefully.

I’m not completely sold on a certain brand piston making more noise than the other. I’ve heard some built motors using various brands and some were quiet and some were loud. Only variable was the engine builder.

The EuroCode drop in pistons are absolutely noisier than any other piston you can buy. They will also need to be replaced after around 20k - 30k miles based on what I’ve seen from around 10 people.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Again, I don’t know where you got that scenario from because I never said anything like that, please read carefully.



The EuroCode drop in pistons are absolutely noisier than any other piston you can buy. They will also need to be replaced after around 20k - 30k miles based on what I’ve seen from around 10 people.

The second post in the thread mentions drop in rods. I genuinely don’t know if that’s a thing, but all I’m saying is if you’re (not you specifically) going to do that and not do anything else, you’d better be careful. Obviously weight is not the only thing to check either.

I may be dating myself but the go-to brands for pistons back in the day were JE/SRP, Wiseco, Diamond… I know Mahle is popular nowadays. I don’t remember any of them being super noisy, granted I never used any with aluminum blocks/sleeves either.

[TwistRate]

I'm not sure why heavier rods would matter as long as they are balanced. Pretty much all aftermarket rods are different weights. The piston speeds will still be the same unless you intend on raising redline.

I guess the point is you can't just drop the oil pan and do a quick rod swap. You have to remove and completely disassemble the motor. Once you get knee deep in that, as a best practice, you should install new DIs, water pump and sometimes even timing hardware.

[mtwallace85]

The second post in the thread mentions drop in rods. I genuinely don’t know if that’s a thing, but all I’m saying is if you’re (not you specifically) going to do that and not do anything else, you’d better be careful. Obviously weight is not the only thing to check either.

I may be dating myself but the go-to brands for pistons back in the day were JE/SRP, Wiseco, Diamond… I know Mahle is popular nowadays. I don’t remember any of them being super noisy, granted I never used any with aluminum blocks/sleeves either.

Gotcha. Yeah I would never just install anything within the rotating assembly without first actually balancing it or confirming it was balanced already. Hopefully any machine shop that’s building these engines will be checking everything because it is pretty basic stuff when it comes down to the motor building world like you said.

[Alex D]

Again, I don’t know where you got that scenario from because I never said anything like that, please read carefully.



The EuroCode drop in pistons are absolutely noisier than any other piston you can buy. They will also need to be replaced after around 20k - 30k miles based on what I’ve seen from around 10 people.

I’ve heard this as well and would love to get some feedback from some of the engine builders on what they think is causing the excessive noise Vs the regular off the shelf mahle pistons that seem relatively quiet.

[tegxsi]

I guess the point is you can't just drop the oil pan and do a quick rod swap. You have to remove and completely disassemble the motor. Once you get knee deep in that, as a best practice, you should install new DIs, water pump and sometimes even timing hardware.
[/url]

I agree with this....if you're going in you might as well refresh everything.

I'm not too familiar with piston offerings for DAZA/DNWA. I would gravitate towards low expansion alloys for street builds (4032).
Are all MAHLE pistons the same? Seems like Eurocode has them made to their spec. Are the PowerPak pistons that IE and St Charles garage the same?

[mtwallace85]

I’ve heard this as well and would love to get some feedback from some of the engine builders on what they think is causing the excessive noise Vs the regular off the shelf mahle pistons that seem relatively quiet.

I talked to Scott from St Charles Garage and this is what he had to say:

I have built alot of these.

Mahle pistons are known to make noise. Some engines are worse than others. Its odd because from my experience it doesn't sound like normal piston slap, it almost sounds valvetrain related and its not as affected by engine temp like most piston slap cases. However, I have swapped Mahle's out for JE and the engines sounded great afterwards.

For in house builds I only use JE pistons. We sell them as well and I have had zero issues with them. https://stcharlesgarage.com/product/...orged-pistons/

If you decide to buy JE elsewhere make sure that they are the correct compression height for the DAZA/DNWA engine. Some people sell pistons that are for older/other engines with different compression heights so you end up with very very tight piston to head clearance.

For rods I am a big fan of Boostline rods. They are very high quality and I have yet to see any issues with them across a wide variety of platforms. I have seen many bent H beam rods in my engine building career but bent I beam rods are almost not existent outside of hydro-lock situations.

I have heard some people were concerned about CA625 head studs pulling the bores out of round. I have had zero issues using our CA625 head stud kit. This kit is stock sized so you are not removing any block or head material and it actually utilizes all the threads deeper into the block unlike the factory bolts. I can only assume the issues are related to other kits out there that pull more from the top of the block or kits with larger than stock sized studs that require machine work.

https://stcharlesgarage.com/product/...head-stud-kit/

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...7#post14710757

I agree with this....if you're going in you might as well refresh everything.

I'm not too familiar with piston offerings for DAZA/DNWA. I would gravitate towards low expansion alloys for street builds (4032).
Are all MAHLE pistons the same? Seems like Eurocode has them made to their spec. Are the PowerPak pistons that IE and St Charles garage the same?

Mahle has their own spec with some proprietary alloy, EuroCode spec’d their Mahle pistons (4032 and 2618), and SGC has custom spec’d JE pistons (both 2618 but one is stock compression whereas the ultras lower compression. I’m sure there are other custom spec’d offerings out there that are offered by various builders. Apex Moto in Canada is another builder I know also uses a custom spec’d piston from Manley that is considerably more quiet than the EuroCode pistons. He shared pictures of some EuroCode pistons that were installed for a little over 20k miles and they were beat to sh*t.

[8STTRS]

Sorry if I missed it, but what pistons did you go with?

I have JE 10.1 pistons.

We discussing audible noise or logged false knock? Big difference

No more noise audibly than stock.