Feeler: Developing Wiseco “Boostline” Rods w/625+ bolts

[Munjaxm2]

Hey all,

I started a project with G25-660 kit in mind and I quickly realized that we don’t really have a proper racing rod readily available to handle high boost and high stress that these motors are being built and asked to perform.

So to address this I reached out to a well known company that produces racing rods…Wiseco.

I am currently using one of their racing rods in the Boostline lineup with 625+ bolts in EJ25 motor. I have to share that these rods are premium product using quality materials and well designed and balanced.

Like I mentioned, after I reached to Wiseco. They agreed to design us a high quality rod with upgraded bolt size using highest quality material that can handle 1000hp+ applications.

If you interested or anticipate you will need a set of quality of rods. Please respond in this thread and also include what you would like to see from Wiseco’s design.

If you can answers few questions in your response that would be awesome! This will help us produce the best product possible.

Questions to ponder:
What brand are your bearing preferences?
What bolts size do you prefer?
Do you have clearance issues with bigger bolts?
Are you running a girdle?
What crank are you running?

You are welcome to pitch in with any ideas, thoughts or concerns that are relevant and that will guide this undertaking to higher success.

Looking forward to everyone’s input!

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Silverex]

There are some better racing rods available, it’s just over kill for most guys and why they arnt as popular. Pauter, Bar-Tex and Auto-Verdi are a few

Always nice to have more options tho and if going custom I’d have them use S4 bearings if possible with 3/8 bolts, and get them as lite as possible without sacrificing strength to help save the mains.

Another option I’d think about is using aluminum rods since they act as a cushion saving other parts…ie block. They have come a long way over the years and can last a lot longer than they used to, like tons of passes and street miles without issue. Not something I’d run in a daily but something to think about with those turbos.

[Munjaxm2]

There are some better racing rods available, it’s just over kill for most guys and why they arnt as popular. Pauter, Bar-Tex and Auto-Verdi are a few

Always nice to have more options tho and if going custom I’d have them use S4 bearings if possible with 3/8 bolts, and get them as lite as possible without sacrificing strength to help save the mains.

Another option I’d think about is using aluminum rods since they act as a cushion saving other parts…ie block. They have come a long way over the years and can last a lot longer than they used to, like tons of passes and street miles without issue. Not something I’d run in a daily but something to think about with those turbos.

Not having to use RS4 bearings will be largely beneficial and cost effective especially when doing a bottom end refresh. Quick research shows $1000 for a set of bearings.

I also agree on 3/8 rod bolt at a minimum. The bonus will be upgraded tensile strength of a 625 aged bolt over ARP 2000.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Silverex]

Your talking about building a pretty expensive rod with 625bolts, like 2k+, so what’s another 800$ for RS4 bearings worst case.😂 Joking aside supposedly there’s other model bearings that are normal priced that fit like the VR6s.

I havnt punched the numbers but I’d be curious to see how 5/16 ca625 are compared to 3/8 arp2000s.

[Munjaxm2]

Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 9.25.14 PM.jpg

[okkim]

I know few guys who have engines which are running normal "china rods" with 5/16" bolts and they have ~1000 hp and 1200+ Nm (from the engine). I wouldn't be worried about the strength, as long as the rods are not made from the butter. And then there are other engines which have 800+ and other 900 hp (~1100 Nm) which have Maxspeedingrods, and they are also working fine.

Just sharing my experience, no need to start a rod war :)

[Munjaxm2]

I know few guys who have engines which are running normal "china rods" with 5/16" bolts and they have ~1000 hp and 1200+ Nm (from the engine). I wouldn't be worried about the strength, as long as the rods are not made from the butter. And then there are other engines which have 800+ and other 900 hp (~1100 Nm) which have Maxspeedingrods, and they are also working fine.

Just sharing my experience, no need to start a rod war :)

Which China rods are putting down 1000HP?
I would like to update the spread sheet with data points for consideration.

You are not starting a rod war but effectively you are saying that there is already a tried and proven 1000HP+ “China Rod” readily available for engine builders which makes this undertaking futile.

Is this truly the case and if so I’ll close the thread? Or is this one of those yeah I know a guy who knows a guy that might be running China Rods putting down 3000 hp on his gf’s butt dyno in his Fiat 500 swapped with Buggati motor with Audi 2.7 sticker on top. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[CELison]

In all of the "china rod" cars, the blocks have always cracked before they tossed a rod. I don't really see the need for another rod options considering it's not the weak point when you build the bottom end. For a billet block, maybe, but that hasn't proven itself yet either.

[MCP]

In all of the "china rod" cars, the blocks have always cracked before they tossed a rod. I don't really see the need for another rod options considering it's not the weak point when you build the bottom end. For a billet block, maybe, but that hasn't proven itself yet either.

Only weak point in rods would be the rod fastener itself if you’re hitting very high max piston speeds (625+ will do the trick). Aside from that, the only weak point of the rods and only reason I’d go with another brand is weight. Although shaving a few extra grams per rod may not seem like much, but when you multiply it by six and factor in how fast you’ll be spinning (assuming that most 1000hp engines will rev higher than normal) I believe the reduced stress of having less reciprocating mass on the crank and less weight trying to pull the rod from the cap apart, makes a difference in the long run. For lower weight rods, I personally have always been a fan of Carrillo, and they already have a 2.7t rod blueprint, so you’d just have to wait for the time for manufacturing if you ever do decide to place an order (they also have titanium custom rods you can order which are juicy if you have lots of coin.)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[okkim]

Which China rods are putting down 1000HP?
I would like to update the spread sheet with data points for consideration.

You are not starting a rod war but effectively you are saying that there is already a tried and proven 1000HP+ “China Rod” readily available for engine builders which makes this undertaking futile.

Is this truly the case and if so I’ll close the thread? Or is this one of those yeah I know a guy who knows a guy that might be running China Rods putting down 3000 hp on his gf’s butt dyno in his Fiat 500 swapped with Buggati motor with Audi 2.7 sticker on top. :)

One engine has Rosten rods, and the other no name H-profile china rods. I know those owners well, so this is not a rumor. All those motors have RS4 block and are 3.0L strokers.

[Munjaxm2]

I’m going to play devils advocate and state that neither of those rods you mentioned are readily available. Rosten’s are discontinued from what I see and we can’t confirm what those China rods are or where to purchase them (alibaba maybe). I’m sorry if this sounds wrong but the whole point was to address the shortage of quality rods and to improve the design by including higher strength bolt. As others mentioned keeping the weight lower than we have seen will be greatly beneficial in higher rpms. Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[mikeb17]

I ran China rods on my compound setup and the block said adios before the rods even flinched.

[okkim]

I’m going to play devils advocate and state that neither of those rods you mentioned are readily available. Rosten’s are discontinued from what I see and we can’t confirm what those China rods are or where to purchase them (alibaba maybe). I’m sorry if this sounds wrong but the whole point was to address the shortage of quality rods and to improve the design by including higher strength bolt. As others mentioned keeping the weight lower than we have seen will be greatly beneficial in higher rpms. Cheers!

There are other china rods which are good too. I'm just saying that the high end expensive rods are not absolutely necessary.

[Monty23]

FYI - I'll have the BAR-TEK I-Beam rods in my 3.0L engine this year. They use 3/8" arp2000 bolts and rs4 bearing equivalents from our friend, the vr6 (ACL race bearing p/n:6b5530h for ~$80). I'll be posting my results when I have them.

But, it never hurts to have more quality options. The one thing missing is a shorter OTS rod that allows OTS pistons with a 3.0L crankshaft.

[Silverex]

FYI - I'll have the BAR-TEK I-Beam rods in my 3.0L engine this year. They use 3/8" arp2000 bolts and rs4 bearing equivalents from our friend, the vr6 (ACL race bearing p/n:6b5530h for ~$80). I'll be posting my results when I have them.

Do you know how much those rods weight?

[Monty23]

Do you know how much those rods weight?

I forgot to weigh them before dropping everything off at the machine shop. But I'll ask them what the big and small ends weigh.

[CELison]

I forgot to weigh them before dropping everything off at the machine shop. But I'll ask them what the big and small ends weigh.

Did you use BMS?

[Nichtknicken]

FYI - I'll have the BAR-TEK I-Beam rods in my 3.0L engine this year. They use 3/8" arp2000 bolts and rs4 bearing equivalents from our friend, the vr6 (ACL race bearing p/n:6b5530h for ~$80). I'll be posting my results when I have them.

But, it never hurts to have more quality options. The one thing missing is a shorter OTS rod that allows OTS pistons with a 3.0L crankshaft.

Wow, I can't believe I missed those, exactly what I was looking for. Bar Tek used to sell shorter stroker rods at one point didn't they? I feel like I saw them a couple years ago. I beam profile seems to be harder to find, RPM rods seems to no longer have the I beams and IE Tuscans have been on intergalactic back order. I gave up waiting and got basic China H beams.
Interested to see how your 3 liter does. Nice to see someone doing a couple things to the block to hold it together.

[Monty23]

Did you use BMS?

Yes sir.

[okkim]

Shorter rods are not a good idea with 3.0L crank. You will even worse rod to stroke ratio with them. First the longer stroke, and then the shorter rod.

[bluebull]

Where did this all end up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Munjaxm2]

Nowhere lol. I didn’t push it to production since everyone was content with aftermarket rods in the market today. With that said I’m out. Admin close and delete if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum