FINALLY DONE! B8.5 Trunk Mount Ice Box

[FromRagsToS4]

Imgur album with progress pics

Wheel Well Page



PM me if you're interested in a cooling solution that is excels in the 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, AutoX, road course, top speed record, and more! Boxes are made in limited quantities, so I'll have to gather interest first before making another batch.










The ice box and pump are now fully installed! I will be taking it to the track this weekend. Loving the daily driving improvements so far!

Non-WOT driving is the same as before- About 20-25F above ambient in 85-90f outside. First thing that put a grin on my face was getting on the on ramp (up to ~80mph) and my temps went from 122f to 115f. Normally 3rd gear IATs spike the most out of any gear.

I stopped on the side of the road and added 10lbs of ice. I added only half the bag at first but had to stop since I didnt drain enough water. By the time I added the 2nd half of the bag the first half was completely melted . Either way, IATs dropped to 10f below ambient and I did a pull to the top of fourth, from 50mph to 135 and my temps got up to 125F (51C) with ambient being 85f.... I am going to try emptying more and adding 20lbs of ice next time.

I'll continue testing with ice packs, ice cubes, and varying size blocks of ice to see which one is best. Results will be posted below




After many iterations, here's the final coolant system diagram I decided on:


Parts list:
- Fragola -16AN Push-Lock Fitting x2

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-873016

-Fragola -12AN Push-Lock Fitting Fitting x1

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-200112-bl

- Parker 3/4 push-lock hose x44' ($3.22/ft)

(local supplier)

- Parker 1" push-lock hose x3'

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-873016

- Custom Ice Tank ($500)
- EMP WP32 water pump ($500)
- Hose Clamps
- 1" PEX connectors

At local supplier

- 1/2" brass valve (for drain)

At Home Depot

- 3/4 to 1/2 Blue Twisters connectors (for drain valve)

At Home Depot

- Vibrant Performance Cushioned P-Clamps (bag of 10)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-17195

I think that's pretty much it.

The EMP WP 32 has a 3/4" outlet and a 1" inlet. I put 2 -16AN bungs on each side, but ended up only needing the -16AN for the inlet and -12AN for the outlet since the hose running to the front and back is 3/4". Shown below is the step down reduction I put on the fitting to convert it from 1" to 3/4".




The key fob proximity sensor had to be relocated in order to accommodate the tank.




The pump turns on with accessory on/engine on and has a bootup time of about 7 seconds. I installed a 25 amp switch so I can manually turn it off and run the engine without the pump circulating. Why would I want this, you ask? Because I dont want my ice melting in minutes while waiting 30 mins in the staging lanes at the track. I used this particular style of switch because I wanted it to be protected from things in the trunk hitting it accidentally and turning off the pump without me noticing.





RESULTS:

Drag Strip
Here's a sample of a log I took during a 1/4 mile pass after 30 mins in the staging lanes.

With 20lbs of ice:


With 10bs of ice into already cold coolant:


Logs of 2nd and 3rd run:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jP...zTqQAEdvAnZfu5
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CW...eysp-nGwg-XBuX

Autocross:
(Update 5/28/2019)
Just logged a couple of runs during autocross. 1st one was with ice, water/meth turned on, 2nd log is with no ice, no water meth. Ambient temperature was about 70F.

With ice, post-blower Intake Air Temps peaked at 37.5C.

Without ice, post-blower Intake Air Temps peaked at 40.5C.

Peak temps are only part of the story. A lot of the runs were low 30s Celcius.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[ShopVac]

Wow - very impressive. Like to hear back on how it worked for you.

[Wreckm]

after reading the title reminded me of this weekend when my brother popped the trunk on his 50 buick and had a vintage cooler. Beers on deck.

anyways. This looks interesting.

[FromRagsToS4]

This is the same setup that the fast Cadillac guys run. Should technically be better than what S4 guys are running with Killer Chiller.

[Fresh.S4]

If you can get ahold of an old medical hot/ cold machine for muscles, it would solve the water temp issue as it has a built in temp regulator. Just cut off the water pad and run the coolant lines through that.

(Not sure if this would really work but the idea is their!)

[killer_s4]

Pray you never get a leak

[kelseysautobody]

Looks awesome and those are some nice initial results. Do you have it valved so you can bypass the box and run your normal cooling loop? How do you drain extra water after adding ice?


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[FromRagsToS4]

No need to bypass. Think of it as the normal coolant setup you all have, except with a much higher flowing pump and way more capacity lol. This IS my sole cooling loop now. Why would I need to bypass it? It's a single pump setup, so if I bypassed it I would no longer have flow through the intercoolers. I can't think of a benefit other than weight savings in REMOVING coolant capacity from the system.

You can see the drain valve in the video. I open the drain and replace the water with ice.

[kelseysautobody]

Gotcha. I wasn’t aware you removed the stock pump.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[UkuRiSh]

I’m getting with the Chiller 58c at the end of 30-140mph ambient 80-90F and boosting car to 28 psi , How many psi you pushing and what is your performance setup ? I think you can increase efficiency by modified OEM IC by tig welding -12an outlet in the back of IC and make it single pass that’s what I’m going to do.

[FromRagsToS4]

What altitude / DA you at?

I will get better measurements. What I posted in the original post was sort of thrown together. I will do much better data collection this weekend. I just did this little testing on my way home.

[extratime]

I'll continue testing with ice packs, ice cubes, and varying size blocks of ice to see which one is best.

Congrats on getting it up and running. It looks great. I can't believe your not having sweating problems. Everything on my setup sweats, the box, pump, fixtures, lines, fittings, even the plate chiller. Wonder if it's because I'm running a 100% water with the ice? I also drain my box except for about a inch of water and stuff the whole thing with ice.


So far for me anyway crushed ice is best for getting my set up the coldest, but it doesn't last very long.


I've been making cubes out of coffee cups and they last a bit longer but don't get as cold.




Don't bother with this stuff it don't do shit. It melts the second it hits the water and does nothing to get it cold.

[FromRagsToS4]

Thanks for the feedback! I figured crushed would be coldest but melt the fastest. I was thinking about freezing something like Smart Water water bottles then then cutting the ice out to see if that would help with longevity. I know some people that freeze whole gallon jugs and stuff them into the tank and it lasts them several passes.

The welder I worked with to customize the box said that powder coating would keep it from sweating. So far it hasn't had an issue with sweating, and I'm wondering if that proves he was right. It's nice when a cosmetic modification also turns out to be a performance benefit ;D!

I think I'll do what you just said and fill most of the box with ice. My setup is a little different than yours in that the ice is going directly into the coolant loop. I too am running just distilled water and a little bit of wetter. I was meaning to add the full dose of Purple Ice (60oz) but only got 1 12oz bottle in since I didn't want to waste it draining.

After my 4th gear pull my IATs came back down to 0f above ambient and stayed there for about 3 mins while I drove normally back home...

Stay tuned for more results!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[FromRagsToS4]

Also, the sweating might be because of the different hose I'm running. You're running mostly PEX right? I'm using mostly 3/4" thick push-lock reinforced rubber hose. The 1" line going from the tank to the pump inlet is actually the hose you see connected to the pump at the gas station....

Lets see what kind of sweating issues I have once I stuff the box 90% with ice.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[bhvrdr]

Really dig this setup. Keep us posted!

Mike

[Loe]

this is cool! I like that it can be utilized with & without ice, the extra capacity is great!

[FromRagsToS4]

this is cool! I like that it can be utilized with & without ice, the extra capacity is great!

I see what you did there.... ;D

This is a very well known cooling mod that is common on supercharged Mustangs, Corvettes, CTS-Vs, Mercedes, Dodge, etc. Just bringing some of that cooling goodness to our platform ;)

[extratime]

Also, the sweating might be because of the different hose I'm running. You're running mostly PEX right? I'm using mostly 3/4" thick push-lock reinforced rubber hose. The 1" line going from the tank to the pump inlet is actually the hose you see connected to the pump at the gas station....

Lets see what kind of sweating issues I have once I stuff the box 90% with ice.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Yeah I'm using 100% PEX but it's insulated with 1/4 inch foam. I also think it has to do with the setup. I'm pushing ice water to the front of the car then thru a water to water HX. So my water don't warm up past 36 degrees until it goes thru the HX. The return line doesn't sweat only the ice water side sweats.

[extratime]

I forgot to ask but you mentioned your going to the track.

Doesn't your track require a battery strap? I know PIR and Woodburn does here in Portland but they don't look very often.

[FromRagsToS4]

I have yet to be checked for battery strap.

Do you have a diagram of how you have yours setup? Here's mine:

[Melen2120]

I have yet to be checked for battery strap.

Do you have a diagram of how you have yours setup? Here's mine:

Why not eliminate the h/x , at this point all it’s doing is heating up the water .


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[extratime]

Mine is setup: S/C --> Air to water HX --> water to water HX -->res-->S/C. My Revo res only holds 12 oz so it just barely keeps the pump primed. The plate chiller added about 24oz of capacity minus the 3/4 hose I had to remove. Overall I think I only added 8-10oz of capacity to the S/C loop. My ice box holds 12-15lbs of ice and has a capacity of 1.8 gallons but that's a separate loop.

[FromRagsToS4]

Why not eliminate the h/x , at this point all it’s doing is heating up the water .


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Im noticing a trend. People cant seem to wrap their head around this setup for some reason.

- Besides a little extra weight, I don't see any drawbacks running this system for daily driving.
- The coldest water, iced water, is going directly from the tank, through the pump, and into the intercoolers. The hot water coming OUT of the intercoolers is cooled off as best as the HX can before being sent back to the trunk tank.
- I put the HX in the spot it is in for this exact reason. IF the HX was BEFORE the intercoolers, It would be doing this instead: 1) Cooling down the water (ice in tank), 2) Immediately heating the water back up by going through the HX, 3) Getting really hot inside the ICs, 4) hot water flows back into the tank. This would really compound the heating effect.
- Follow the arrows and colors! ;)

[Melen2120]

Im noticing a trend. People cant seem to wrap their head around this setup for some reason.

- Besides a little extra weight, I don't see any drawbacks running this system for daily driving.
- The coldest water, iced water, is going directly from the tank, through the pump, and into the intercoolers. The hot water coming OUT of the intercoolers is cooled off as best as the HX can before being sent back to the trunk tank.
- I put the HX in the spot it is in for this exact reason. IF the HX was BEFORE the intercoolers, It would be doing this instead: 1) Cooling down the water (ice in tank), 2) Immediately heating the water back up by going through the HX, 3) Getting really hot inside the ICs, 4) hot water flows back into the tank. This would really compound the heating effect.
- Follow the arrows and colors! ;)

Simple question no need for that kind of response , if you dig into Leo’s history with the KC he stated that the coolant ( water ) coming out of the blower is still cool . With that being the case why heat up the water at all and not just return the cool water coming out the blower to the ice tank and maintain it as cold as possible .


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[bhvrdr]

Simple question no need for that kind of response , if you dig into Leo’s history with the KC he stated that the coolant ( water ) coming out of the blower is still cool . With that being the case why heat up the water at all and not just return the cool water coming out the blower to the ice tank and maintain it as cold as possible .


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Ice melts quickly. The fluid is eventually going to heat up. Rags method allows his setup to be a 1/4 mile killer if you load up the ice and do a best run. But better it allows him to do very well on canyom runs or lap days where you will not be able to keep temps in check without a hx even with a kc setup.

With 3 back to back runs if you give no downtime your iat with a kc and no hx will be very high like 90c i saw. Its not made for that. If you can give it just 30 seconds or more between runs the kc will perform much better but you cant just keep heating the fluid with no downtime or it will get very hot.

Same thing with a giant reservoir. Once you melt the ice the fluid is eventually going to heat up. The hx will keep things cool and the added fluid will give you added thermal capacity. Add to it a faster circulation pump than stock and its a win win.

Looking forward to more test results like how idling heat soak may be improved too.

Mike

[theweebabyseamus]

Simple question no need for that kind of response , if you dig into Leo’s history with the KC he stated that the coolant ( water ) coming out of the blower is still cool . With that being the case why heat up the water at all and not just return the cool water coming out the blower to the ice tank and maintain it as cold as possible .


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Edit: Just +1 with bhvrdr

Eventually you'll overwhelm the capacities ability to keep the coolant cool. With the KC, even without a HE you still have something providing substantial cooling to the fluid. The ice works during pulls, sure, but during sustained pulls or even DD type driving I have an (uneducated) idea that you'd run into IAT issues.

[FromRagsToS4]

I was commenting on an observation based on a lot of interactions, not just your post.

The water coming out of the HX is still cold. in fact, in just daily driving, the water in the tank is lukewarm, not that much above ambient. The HX actually does a pretty good job.

I picked this system because it will excel in all areas:
- 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, top speed runs, street, AutoX, road course, Canyon Carving, etc

Removing the HX will make this system too niche and not a good all around solution.

As the coolant inevitably heats up, the HX will keep the fluctuation less drastic, which is a good thing.

The water to air heat exchange process in inherently inefficient. The air can only get so cold with the speed of the air passing through the fins and the speed of the water moving through the IC. Remember, the temperature we're reading is IAT2, not intake air temps at the throttle body. Why would the ambient air be getting up to 180f? Its not, its post blower air temps. And that heat soak is mainly coming from the engine block, heads, supercharger, etc. We can't expect there to be an even across the board thermal exchange. In other words, we can't expect that 80f coolant will immediately cool the air to 80f either. This is evidenced by the fact that when you're driving around, if you put your hand in the coolant (you probably cant like me and my 6.5" lid) you'll see temps around 80-90 F (ambient being about the same) but you'll still see 110-120 IAT. The whole reason this icebox setup and Killer Chiller work so well is because you can overcome this heat exchange inefficiency is by introducing an extreme (iced coolant) into the equation. Between 2 mediums with a common surface (water on one side, air on the other) at different temperatures, given enough time, the 2 temperatures will want to come to an equilibrium. We dont want to wait that long though,.... so we introduce an extreme temperature on one side to make that exchange happen faster.

[FromRagsToS4]

Im convinced there is something else we're not taking into account that is causing heat soak that can't be addressed by upgrading cooling to the supercharger. Maybe another existing system, engine cooling system perhaps, is contributing to heat soak.

The reason I believe this is because I have seen random fluctuations of IATs while driving on the highway. Even in super cold temps. IE: 40f outside, and intake air temps sitting at 50f above ambient. Yet I can see IAT as low as 15f-20f above ambient at 100f ambient. I'll be driving at 70mph on a flat highway with cruise control and be sitting at 20f above ambient. And for no reason at all it will jump up to 50f above ambient. And 3 mins later it will suddenly drop back down to 20f above ambient. Extensive bleeding has been done and no bubbles are observed when bleeding.

Where does the majority of our heat soak come from? Is it just because the SC sits right on top of the block and Audi runs the engine hotter than average (engine coolant sits right around 200f)? Is this something that can even be addressed? Not talking about hood vents either because that doesnt really address the problem per se.

Interested in the results from the phenolic spacers discussed in this thread:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...henolic-Spacer

[bhvrdr]

Im convinced there is something else we're not taking into account that is causing heat soak that can't be addressed by upgrading cooling to the supercharger. Maybe another existing system, engine cooling system perhaps, is contributing to heat soak.

The reason I believe this is because I have seen random fluctuations of IATs while driving on the highway. Even in super cold temps. IE: 40f outside, and intake air temps sitting at 50f above ambient. Yet I can see IAT as low as 15f-20f above ambient at 100f ambient. I'll be driving at 70mph on a flat highway with cruise control and be sitting at 20f above ambient. And for no reason at all it will jump up to 50f above ambient. And 3 mins later it will suddenly drop back down to 20f above ambient. Extensive bleeding has been done and no bubbles are observed when bleeding.

Where does the majority of our heat soak come from? Is it just because the SC sits right on top of the block and Audi runs the engine hotter than average (engine coolant sits right around 200f)? Is this something that can even be addressed? Not talking about hood vents either because that doesnt really address the problem per se.

That sounds like cavitation no? If you are steady state cruising and iats are jumping up and down 30f thats a system malfunction

[justinscholle]

this is cool


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[extratime]

Even in super cold temps. IE: 40f outside, and intake air temps sitting at 50f above ambient. Yet I can see IAT as low as 15f-20f above ambient at 100f ambient. I'll be driving at 70mph on a flat highway with cruise control and be sitting at 20f above ambient. And for no reason at all it will jump up to 50f above ambient. And 3 mins later it will suddenly drop back down to 20f above ambient. Extensive bleeding has been done and no bubbles are observed when bleeding.

Btw if you give me a email address, I can send you logs of a 3rd gear pull I made after driving 20 miles on the hwy with only water in the box. I also forgot to mention my return line also goes thru a air to water hx before returning to the box. We are setup exactly the same on the return lines.

I'm curious if your setup will end up being more efficient then mine. Right now they appear very equal but you've just started testing.

[FromRagsToS4]

Test run I did tonight driving back home. No ice. GIAC Stage 2+ pump file pump gas.

Pulled from 3k rpm in 2nd to the top of 4th, and a little bit in 5th.

Starting IAT2: 89F (31.6C)
Peak IAT2: 133F (56.1C)



Temps dropped pretty immediately down to 100F (37.8C) after I let off, then a little while later back down to 90F (32.2C) (25F (13.9C) over ambient)

I wish I would have stayed in it a little longer in 5th, as you can see the temps actually start to drop while accelerating in 5th...

Also interesting to note that temps dont really start going up until after 6800 RPM.

Took a measurement of the coolant after driving a couple minutes and temps normalized.

Ambient temp: 65f (18.3C)
IAT: 90f (32.2C) (25f (13.9C) above ambient)
Coolant temp: 76.9f (24.9C) (11.x f (6.6C) above ambient. Nice and cool to the touch!)

[MercRacing]

Fantastic work and results.

[extratime]

Test run I did tonight driving back home. No ice. GIAC Stage 2+ pump file pump gas.

Pulled from 3k rpm in 2nd to the top of 4th, and a little bit in 5th.

Starting IAT2: 89F (31.6C)
Peak IAT2: 133F (56.1C)



Temps dropped pretty immediately down to 100F (37.8C) after I let off, then a little while later back down to 90F (32.2C) (25F (13.9C) over ambient)

I wish I would have stayed in it a little longer in 5th, as you can see the temps actually start to drop while accelerating in 5th...

Also interesting to note that temps dont really start going up until after 6800 RPM.

Took a measurement of the coolant after driving a couple minutes and temps normalized.

Ambient temp: 65f (18.3C)
IAT: 90f (32.2C) (25f (13.9C) above ambient)
Coolant temp: 76.9f (24.9C) (11.x f (6.6C) above ambient. Nice and cool to the touch!)

Nice test. I have all this stuff too. I even have dyno pulls with and without ice. I didn't bother posting any of it, but if your intrested in comparing data shoot me a PM. Good luck on the testing.

[FromRagsToS4]

Ok thanks! Just PM'ed you

[UkuRiSh]

Here is my log at 75F ambient and water temp. I did about 1 hour of driving with two 30-140mph runs and one 1/4 mile before I did this vid of fluid . I can make it water a lot colder by adding 4-6L close tank with insulation, my result is with HX pass too same as your setup. This is good comparison be twin those two cooling upgrades they both works great.

[Chris822]

I am so glad you posted this up! Earlier in the week I was watching some Cleetus videos and got the itch to do an icebox setup. You guys have given me the motivation!

[FromRagsToS4]

First time going out with the ice box. +4700 DA. 6 Speed Manual. Cleanest logs ive yet to see on my car.

For sanity sake, here's a truncated log of just the gear, timing, and intake air temps. Ambient was 78F.

Gear	Timing	IAT
None	Degrees	Celsius
0	16.5	40.5
0	15	40.5
0	15	39.75
0	10.5	39.75
1	11.5	39.75
1	2.5	39.75
1	11	39
1	9.5	39
1	8	38.25
1	8	38.25
1	7.5	37.5
1	-3.5	37.5
1	6	37.5
1	6	36.75
1	11.5	36.75
1	12.5	36.75
1	11	36
1	18.5	36
1	20	36
1	20	36
1	24	35.25
1	24	35.25
1	26	34.5
1	26	34.5
1	27	34.5
1	27	33.75
0	7	33.75
0	9	33.75
0	8	33.75
0	8	33.75
2	26	33.75
2	14.5	33.75
2	14.5	33.75
2	5.5	33.75
2	18	33.75
2	20	33.75
2	20	33.75
2	18.5	33.75
2	18.5	33.75
2	21.5	33.75
2	22.5	33.75
2	23	33.75
2	23	33.75
2	24.5	33.75
2	25	33.75
2	26	33.75
2	26	33.75
2	26.5	33.75
2	26.5	33.75
2	27	33.75
2	27.5	33.75
2	28	34.5
2	28	34.5
2	28.5	34.5
2	28.5	35.25
2	29	35.25
2	29	35.25
2	29.5	35.25
2	29.5	36
2	30	36
2	30.5	36.75
2	30.5	36.75
2	35	37.5
0	35	37.5
0	13	38.25
0	13	38.25
0	30.5	38.25
3	18.5	39
3	25	39
3	25	39
3	23	39.75
3	24.5	39.75
3	25.5	39.75
3	25.5	39.75
3	25.5	39.75
3	25.5	39.75
3	26	39.75
3	26	39.75
3	26	39.75
3	26	39.75
3	26.5	39.75
3	26.5	39.75
3	27	39.75
3	27	40.5
3	27	40.5
3	27	40.5
3	27.5	40.5
3	27.5	40.5
3	27.5	40.5
3	27.5	40.5
3	28	41.25
3	28	41.25
3	28.5	41.25
3	28	42
3	28	42
3	29	42
3	29	42
3	29	42.75
3	29	42.75
3	29.5	42.75
3	29	43.5
3	29.5	43.5
3	29.5	44.25
3	30	44.25
3	29.5	45
3	30	45
3	29.5	45
3	30	45.75
3	30	45.75
3	32	45.75
0	14	46.5
0	13.5	46.5
0	27.5	46.5
0	27.5	47.25
4	21.5	47.25
4	23	47.25
4	24.5	47.25
4	24.5	47.25
4	24.5	47.25
4	24.5	47.25
4	25	47.25
4	25	47.25
4	24.5	47.25
4	25	46.5
4	25	46.5
4	25	46.5
4	25.5	46.5
4	25.5	45.75
4	25.5	45.75
4	25.5	45.75
4	25.5	45.75
4	25.5	45.75
4	25.5	45.75
4	26	45.75
4	26	45.75
4	26	45
4	26	45
4	26.5	45
4	26.5	45
4	26.5	45
4	27	45
4	27	45
4	27	45
4	27	45.75
4	27	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	27.5	45.75
4	28	46.5
4	28	46.5
4	27.5	46.5
0	8	46.5

[FromRagsToS4]

Logs of two 1/4 mile runs at the drag strip with ice in the tank:
Run 2
Run 3

[bhvrdr]

You single pulley or stage 1? 13psi is usually stage 1 level boost roughly.

Mike