2019 (B9 Sportback) RS5 Subwoofer - IS OUT OF PHASE from the factory

[iampraneel]

Does anyone know why the factory sub has two sets of wires feeding it? Is it a dual voice coil? Can I tap into each set for 2 separate high level inputs into an aftermarket amp for 2 aftermarket subs?

Because it’s a DVC Sub.

[82 Coupe]

big shout out to iampraneel!

i just installed his gizmo and my bass is booming on another level.
im not a tech guy so i cant explain exactly, but the bass seems more even and centered throughout the vehicle now.
my rear passengers would complain about the boom and i barely felt any subwoofer response in the front, at low volumes.
also install was a breeze for clumsy guy like me.

[richmusch]

I took the sub out and changed the wire configuration and I am amazed at the difference this made.

Maybe I missed this somewhere in the 3 pages of conversation but has anyone brought this up with Audi?

[LYKUNO]

Pardon my naiveté but does this out-of-phase issue only affect B9 Sportback's, or would my '23 B9.5 be affected as well? TIA for clarifying that!

[AccordingToAlex]

Pardon my naiveté but does this out-of-phase issue only affect B9 Sportback's, or would my '23 B9.5 be affected as well? TIA for clarifying that!

B9.5 same issue

[Deferred]

Hi all

I de pinned my sub cable yesterday in my 2018 B9 Sportback with B&O.

I'll start off by saying I've replaced all speakers other than the secondary tweeters in the front A pillar & sub. I am also NOT an audiophile, but I have spent a lot of money on audio gear, so I generally have a good ear for things.



My personal experience is that the factory wiring of the subwoofer in the sportback provides lower extension and a flatter response. It produces a better quality sound, but as an experience, isn't as good. It is, in my opinion, out of phase. I say this, because in the default wiring configuration, the subwoofer is locatable - in all my experience setting up subwoofers/performing room correction, the aim is to make it unlocatable. That is to say, you can hear that the bass is coming from the boot.

The best systems I have ever listened to, including a £35,000 KEF 7.2.4 system, had completely integrated subwoofers which filled in the lower extension subtly.

I can see why it was done though, as while stationary, it offers a flatter response, which is generally preferable.



Swapping the wiring as described in this post had a subtle, but immediate effect. The deeper bass which could not be produced by the front bass drivers (currently 6.5 inch Morels) was supplementing said speakers. You can tell this because dropping the subwoofer volume in the settings didn't make it sound like you're taking away a subwoofer, but rather filtering out lower bass notes. This is how to tell if you've set up a sub well - it should sound like the bass is coming from the main speakers, not the sub.

What this means is that you can transfer some of the load from the front bass drivers to the subwoofer, resulting in the ability to go louder with the same control.

You do miss some of the deeper notes, but:

1. This isn't noticeable with all music
2. DEFINITELY isn't noticeable with exhaust note of the V6 occupying most of that frequency range anyway.
3. In a car, you're not critically listening - you just want good tonality, low distortion and high volume.




Audi engineers almost definitely made this decision based on a stationary vehicle - I would do the same, but while driving, the sound of the subwoofer (and consequently the system as a whole) is in my humble opinion, much better with the phase reversed.

[iampraneel]

Hey folks. I have enough parts to make 4 more kits. My next batch of parts should be here mid March.

If you want one, please see contact information on this post.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Kit-Sportback

[Mythdoc]

It's a simple topic. I would like to know if the only actual pics of the wires on the 8W9 sub thus presented are pre or post operation.

Without waiting for that confirmation, I made this which basically breaks down the B9 B&O sub wiring, to the best I can determine from the available information, considering I don't have one in hand.


(the crappy image handling engine on this site; using external site instead; click on the image to get a proper visual)

The gist of the thread being to swap the + and - for each channel, A and B, be it at the amp, at the harness side of the plug, at the sub side of the plug, or at the sub itself. It's the same end result regardless of which.

If the pics are pre-op, then they agree with the expected wiring. If the pics are post-op, then they match the expected wiring after "correction". Which might explain why the wiring needed correction. Still very odd that Audi didn't catch this; it's easily corrected in the J525 DSP. Maybe the parameterization in the J525 is wrong because it's for the wrong vehicle, maybe the OEM just wired the sub wrong from what Audi expected. Who knows. It would be curious to know if the wagons, which use the same subwoofer part, are seeing similar results.

And if Audi does come along with a J525 update, it'll break the situation and you'll need to undo the edit.

I am going to try reversing the polarity in my B9 A4 allroad wagon to test this exact thing. I don’t want to resolder or swap wires so I’ll wait for a connector harness and report back when it is here.

[iampraneel]

Hey folks. I have enough parts to make 4 more kits. My next batch of parts should be here mid March.

If you want one, please see contact information on this post.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Kit-Sportback

Ran out of parts on the 25th but expecting more parts by next weekend and I have limited green connector. Expecting those late this month.

I’m taking “reserve your spot” order at the $59 price until the parts come in

If you want one, please see contact information on my FS post.

[Peeet]

@djmika thank you for sharing

Last week i found this treat :)
Yesterday afternoon the cabling, swapped on the T4jc female connector.
Finally a bass in my S5/F5 Sportback, great sound now.

T4jc female connector Before
IMG_2112.jpgIMG_2138.jpgIMG_2142.jpg

T4jc female connector Afther
IMG_2154.jpgIMG_2155.jpgIMG_2156.jpg

Peeet

[bruce_miranda]

Someone should really take the time and study the B&O amp's datasets, like the Audi Sound System's one has been. Then this change becomes literally a byte change away.

[Mythdoc]

It's a simple topic. I would like to know if the only actual pics of the wires on the 8W9 sub thus presented are pre or post operation.

Without waiting for that confirmation, I made this which basically breaks down the B9 B&O sub wiring, to the best I can determine from the available information, considering I don't have one in hand.


(the crappy image handling engine on this site; using external site instead; click on the image to get a proper visual)

The gist of the thread being to swap the + and - for each channel, A and B, be it at the amp, at the harness side of the plug, at the sub side of the plug, or at the sub itself. It's the same end result regardless of which.

If the pics are pre-op, then they agree with the expected wiring. If the pics are post-op, then they match the expected wiring after "correction". Which might explain why the wiring needed correction. Still very odd that Audi didn't catch this; it's easily corrected in the J525 DSP. Maybe the parameterization in the J525 is wrong because it's for the wrong vehicle, maybe the OEM just wired the sub wrong from what Audi expected. Who knows. It would be curious to know if the wagons, which use the same subwoofer part, are seeing similar results.

And if Audi does come along with a J525 update, it'll break the situation and you'll need to undo the edit.

I am going to try reversing the polarity in my B9 A4 allroad wagon to test this exact thing. I don’t want to resolder or swap wires so I’ll wait for a connector harness and report back when it is here.

UPDATE—A4 ALLROAD

I just tested my subwoofer and general sound output and concluded that reversing the polarity to the SW in the Allroad resulted in a highly noticeable reduction in bass at the critical frequencies. In short, it was as bad for the sound in my wagon as you guys with the A5 Sportback were saying it was good. So, the plot thickens.

I know the SW wiring is said to be the same between the two vehicles but I’d guess there is in fact a wiring error in the S5 SB in certain production runs that is not present in the A4 Allroad.

[bruce_miranda]

I wish people stop calling this a wiring error in the Sportback. Its not.

[Mythdoc]

I wish people stop calling this a wiring error in the Sportback. Its not.

We all recognize your experience with sound systems and acoustics, but you have made a (however highly educated) surmise that it is not a wiring error, which my experience with the Allroad neither proves nor disproves. You don’t actually know whether there is or isn’t. Since the wiring diagrams between the Allroad and the Sportback are identical, I’d say there’s room for doubt.

[iampraneel]

We all recognize your experience with sound systems and acoustics, but you have made a (however highly educated) surmise that it is not a wiring error, which my experience with the Allroad neither proves nor disproves. You don’t actually know whether there is or isn’t. Since the wiring diagrams between the Allroad and the Sportback are identical, I’d say there’s room for doubt.

I have to agree with Bruce, it’s not a wiring error. I’m saying this because my sub/amp is is wired without doing a wiring swap and it sounds great.

As he’s stated in other post, software may have something to do with the performance differences between the Allroad and Sportback.

[bruce_miranda]

We all recognize your experience with sound systems and acoustics, but you have made a (however highly educated) surmise that it is not a wiring error, which my experience with the Allroad neither proves nor disproves. You don’t actually know whether there is or isn’t. Since the wiring diagrams between the Allroad and the Sportback are identical, I’d say there’s room for doubt.

I am by no means an expert. Firing a subwoofer out of phase just changes where the peak is in the frequency spectrum. But it's an entirely normal thing to try. Based on the music you listen to, some people like that change, some people do not. There is nothing right or wrong. If you took your music to the cars that have gained from swapping the phase, you too wouldn't feel it did anything. Everyone prefers things differently. Hence why the famous saying in sound - Trust only your ears.

[Lstereo]

I've done the tests: stock, with cable (switched poles), Kicker RT with and without cable, with a number of lossless tracks on my 2020 S5 Sportback.

While standing next to the subwoofer, with the vehicle not running, you can hear a slight difference.

While driving, you're not hearing any difference.

Hi all

I de pinned my sub cable yesterday in my 2018 B9 Sportback with B&O.

I'll start off by saying I've replaced all speakers other than the secondary tweeters in the front A pillar & sub. I am also NOT an audiophile, but I have spent a lot of money on audio gear, so I generally have a good ear for things.



My personal experience is that the factory wiring of the subwoofer in the sportback provides lower extension and a flatter response. It produces a better quality sound, but as an experience, isn't as good. It is, in my opinion, out of phase. I say this, because in the default wiring configuration, the subwoofer is locatable - in all my experience setting up subwoofers/performing room correction, the aim is to make it unlocatable. That is to say, you can hear that the bass is coming from the boot.

The best systems I have ever listened to, including a £35,000 KEF 7.2.4 system, had completely integrated subwoofers which filled in the lower extension subtly.

I can see why it was done though, as while stationary, it offers a flatter response, which is generally preferable.



Swapping the wiring as described in this post had a subtle, but immediate effect. The deeper bass which could not be produced by the front bass drivers (currently 6.5 inch Morels) was supplementing said speakers. You can tell this because dropping the subwoofer volume in the settings didn't make it sound like you're taking away a subwoofer, but rather filtering out lower bass notes. This is how to tell if you've set up a sub well - it should sound like the bass is coming from the main speakers, not the sub.

What this means is that you can transfer some of the load from the front bass drivers to the subwoofer, resulting in the ability to go louder with the same control.

You do miss some of the deeper notes, but:

1. This isn't noticeable with all music
2. DEFINITELY isn't noticeable with exhaust note of the V6 occupying most of that frequency range anyway.
3. In a car, you're not critically listening - you just want good tonality, low distortion and high volume.


Audi engineers almost definitely made this decision based on a stationary vehicle - I would do the same, but while driving, the sound of the subwoofer (and consequently the system as a whole) is in my humble opinion, much better with the phase reversed.

[jdm-v35]

I've done the tests: stock, with cable (switched poles), Kicker RT with and without cable, with a number of lossless tracks on my 2020 S5 Sportback.

While standing next to the subwoofer, with the vehicle not running, you can hear a slight difference.

While driving, you're not hearing any difference.

I made this change yesterday(depinning and reversing the poles) and for me it made a significant difference in volume. At low volume it doesn't make any difference but at higher volume the subwoofer is able to give more output and not get distorted.

[Lstereo]

Were you driving when you noticed the difference?

[AccordingToAlex]

The difference is night and day. Remember this is only for B&O

[jdm-v35]

Were you driving when you noticed the difference?

Both with car off and while driving. The difference was WAY more than subtle. As others say, it is a totally night and day difference in output. Like double the output and still not maxing out the sub. In fact I had to turn it down a couple notches because it was overpowering the mids and highs.

[Burrcold]

Both with car off and while driving. The difference was WAY more than subtle. As others say, it is a totally night and day difference in output. Like double the output and still not maxing out the sub. In fact I had to turn it down a couple notches because it was overpowering the mids and highs.

It's crazy how this is making such a difference for some, and none for others (me included in my 2022 RS5 Sportback). I tested so many times back and forth, different types of music, etc. No change.

[jdm-v35]

It's crazy how this is making such a difference for some, and none for others (me included in my 2022 RS5 Sportback). I tested so many times back and forth, different types of music, etc. No change.

Do you have the B&O system? Also in newer years they may have fixed this flaw.

[Burrcold]

Do you have the B&O system? Also in newer years they may have fixed this flaw.

Yes, B&O is standard now. Perhaps they have fixed it, however I did have a 2019 RS5 Sportback before this and doesn't sound too different (the improvement I've found in the 2022 is better clarity from the mids and highs.).

[Lstereo]

We must have entirely different ears then.
I have two music listening rooms in my house. The smaller room has Bowers & Wilkins 705 S2 + sub and the larger room has Bowers & Wilkins CM10 S2. Both are adequately powered by PS Audio and Marantz products.

I have tried my best to observe a discernible difference in my 2020 S5 Sportback with B&O. I had even hoped that a Kicker replacement for the standard woofer (standard wiring) would yield a difference. I've tried it with lossless music - London Grammar, Phantogram, Miles Davis, the Roots and Dave Brubeck.

My conclusion is that standing at the rear of the vehicle with the truck/hatch open one can hear a difference at low-to-moderate volumes (I didn't crank it up).
However, while driving, there is no noticeable difference. I don't know if this has to do with the sport exhaust (I have Soundaktor off, set to zero) or road noise.

I can easily tell the differences between one of my two listening rooms, with and without the sub, etc.

The difference is night and day. Remember this is only for B&O

[iampraneel]

Just had a gentleman from Australia tell me the kit improved his oem sub in his 2023. Said it improved the lower frequencies and bass sounds cleaner.

Any one that needs a kit here is a link to the for sale post or contact me via the info below.

Text 9168775612 or Email [email protected]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Kit-Sportback

[DaveG]

Anyone that needs the cable can send me a DM and I’ll sell them mine. I’m not using it.

DaveG

[Burrcold]

It's crazy how this is making such a difference for some, and none for others (me included in my 2022 RS5 Sportback). I tested so many times back and forth, different types of music, etc. No change.

Update to my original impressions. I decided to reinstall the cables and I used a bass and surround test (made for TV AV setups) and I used an "ultimate subwoofer test" I found on YouTube. There's definitely a difference with the cable (bass hits harder and cleaner). It's hard, at least for me, to pick up the changes while listening to music but this test all but confirmed that there's obviously some improvement. That's enough for me to keep the cable.

[Dan99]

I have found this test album useful in setting up the system in my home:

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5dd...8da9f501f6db95

It contains channel testing, phase testing, many different instruments, and frequency tests at 10Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5 Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz 100Hz, and about 30 more test frequencies up to and including 96000Hz.

My guess is that you could use it to test the stock wiring to the subwoofer, then the alternate wiring, and see where the lower frequencies begin to appear and how they sound. My stock 2019 RS5 system with the stock wiring is not audible at 10, 20, 25 Hz, but becomes audible at the 31.5 Hz track.

I had trouble getting it to work initially, but eventually put it on its own USB stick. So, my directory structure on the USB stick was:

\Music

\Test record, Timbre, Dynamics, Depth of field

\2xHD Hi Res System set-up [192kHz - 24bit]

...each album track is in this last folder, such as:
10Hz.flac
20Hz.flac
25Hz.flac
31.5Hz.flac
etc.

[Burrcold]

I have found this test album useful in setting up the system in my home:

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5dd...8da9f501f6db95

It contains channel testing, phase testing, many different instruments, and frequency tests at 10Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5 Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz 100Hz, and about 30 more test frequencies up to and including 96000Hz.

My guess is that you could use it to test the stock wiring to the subwoofer, then the alternate wiring, and see where the lower frequencies begin to appear and how they sound. My stock 2019 RS5 system with the stock wiring is not audible at 10, 20, 25 Hz, but becomes audible at the 31.5 Hz track.

I had trouble getting it to work initially, but eventually put it on its own USB stick. So, my directory structure on the USB stick was:

\Music

\Test record, Timbre, Dynamics, Depth of field

\2xHD Hi Res System set-up [192kHz - 24bit]

...each album track is in this last folder, such as:
10Hz.flac
20Hz.flac
25Hz.flac
31.5Hz.flac
etc.

That's similar to what I ended up using to test. I figured it was worth doing a more scientific test vs just trying to decern by ear with music.

[iampraneel]

For those of you that have bought my sub fix kit (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Kit-Sportback), if you ever decide to add an aftermarket sub, you can transform the kit to look like this and use it to send the signal to the amp. I have a “how to” in the link below to add an aftermarket amp/sub in the link below.

RS 5 Sportback Basser Box, Jl Audio and Kicker Amp with a Bass Knob install.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=922848

IMG_0953.JPG

[FreshtoJEFF]

Just picked up a B9 A5 and knew the audio didn’t sound up to par. Glad I found this post. Looking to depin the connector myself, can anyone share which depinning tool is needed?

[AccordingToAlex]

Just picked up a B9 A5 and knew the audio didn’t sound up to par. Glad I found this post. Looking to depin the connector myself, can anyone share which depinning tool is needed?

Vignee 60pcs Terminal Removal Tool kit,Pins Terminals Puller Repair Removal Tools for Car Pin Extractor Electrical Wiring Crimp Connectors,Key Extractor Connector Depinning Tool Set https://a.co/d/7d3PfjM

[FreshtoJEFF]

Vignee 60pcs Terminal Removal Tool kit,Pins Terminals Puller Repair Removal Tools for Car Pin Extractor Electrical Wiring Crimp Connectors,Key Extractor Connector Depinning Tool Set https://a.co/d/7d3PfjM

Right on. Thanks man

[dswarr]

Vignee 60pcs Terminal Removal Tool kit,Pins Terminals Puller Repair Removal Tools for Car Pin Extractor Electrical Wiring Crimp Connectors,Key Extractor Connector Depinning Tool Set https://a.co/d/7d3PfjM

I got that de-pinning kit and for the life of me I could not find the right tool that would allow the pins to come out. However, I cut and re-spliced the wires to accomplish the same thing and the difference was amazing! Much more bass and at much higher volumes. Finally feel like the B&O was worth it. Best free mod (or fix) I've ever done!! Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

[MidnightA7]

I just installed the B&O fix setup from Iampraneev. So worth it. I am not stereo savvy at all and was able to get everything set up and installed within 15 minutes. To me, this system now fully meets and exceeds my expectations of what it should sound like. I listened to a couple of tracks that I know how the bass should sound and it's so much more full and robust. I had a B&O system in my '13 A5 and when I picked up my 2019 S5 with B&O I figured it was settings that I have to dial in. I'm so glad I found this thread and am so thankful to Iampraneev to create such an easy plug to make my car everything I knew it should be(audio-wise). If you have a B&O system and are disappointed with how your tunes are sounding. Get in touch with Iampraneev and enjoy the sweet sweet music to your ears.

[Bwana]

Just ordered one, can't wait to see the difference!

[TJUNER_RS4]

Just want to report, that I bought the phase change kit from "iampraneel". To be honest, I didn't expect that I will be able to hear the difference. But the difference is noticeable immediately and very strong.
I can recommend this mod definitively to everybody with a OEM sub. The sub is pushing way more clean and I now I don't need to turn it down on some songs, where it started like to overlay and was not able to play back as my headphones did it. I thought the whole time, that the songs had too much bass boost.

[DaveG]

I didn’t notice a change, so my plug is for sale. $35. PM me.

DaveG

[iampraneel]

I didn’t notice a change, so my plug is for sale. $35. PM me.

DaveG

Have you thought about trying again? Out of all the people I’ve sold to you’re the only one that hasn’t noticed a difference.