Saving a Santorin Avant

[eurogz]

I will preface this by saying I have always been into cars but have never been a “car guy”, I usually get my adrenaline fix from building and racing motorcycles. No stranger to engine internals and have built some pretty wild motors but those always ended up between 2 wheels and not 4.

At a point in my life where I finally have a decent job. Currently working on buying my first house and within the next year or so I will be marrying my first wife (lol) which leaves me with very little time and very little money, so I figure the responsible thing to do is blow a stupid amount of money on a 20 year old turbo Audi!

In all seriousness I’ve always loved these cars and when I finally decided to dip my toes into the car game I always knew it would be a B5. Looked on and off for years but never found the right example at the right time. I knew it had to be an Avant, had to be a 6MT, and couldn’t be silver. Wanted it to be Cactus in the worst way but knew I had a better chance of seeing Jesus so I settled with just “not silver”.

By pure dumb luck I got in touch with a local guy that had a Santorin Avant that ticked all the boxes at the upper end of what I was prepared to spend. Not perfect by any sense of the word but an example I can work with. After weeks of back and forth we made a deal and I picked up this beauty:

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Car has 176k and is in decent shape. Mod list I was given from previous owner:

Borg Warner K04’s
550 injectors
85mm MAF
SSAC catted downpipes
Rest of exhaust and intercoolers are stock
07 RS4 clutch and TTV flywheel
Timing / water pump / seals done at 170k
Aluminum Tstat housing
034 spider hose kit
Tuned by local shop, has never been on dyno.

Lowered on Tien springs and Bilstein struts
034 front control arm kit
New inner and outer tie rods ends

Body is not perfect, some scratches and some rust bubbles starting to form. Wrong front badge and missing rear badge. Headliner sags, missing rear headrests, spotty driver seat heater. Cracked and zip tied front bumper, rear hatch rubs in spots. Car was hit and repaired at least twice over the years but title is clean.

Got a stack of receipts dating back to early 2000’s, car needs some love but was taken care of. Plan is to do some general maintenance to make sure the car is solid, finish off what’s needed to see a proper stage 3 setup, and I’m sure I will eventually go wild and build the motor with some big boy turbos. This thread will be long and may not be exciting but I’m doing it more for my own records than anything else.


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[eurogz]

After owning the Avant for a few weeks I’ve put a few thousand miles on it commuting an hour each way to work with no real issues. Started general maintenance before I start with upgrades.

Car runs well, I am used to sub 3 second 0-60’s and 180+ top speeds so most cars feel slow but it’s certainly fun to drive. Boosts to 20psi and tapers down to 15 which I feel is low, built myself a boost leak tester but haven’t pressurized the system yet. Front rotors are warped which needs addressing ASAP. Full catless Twin 1 exhaust showed up and SRM intercoolers are on the way, ordered those about 2 weeks ago and still haven’t gotten a shipment notification but they are made to order and I need to get the car through emissions and inspection before I’m ready to do the exhaust and intercoolers anyway. At that point I’ll have a year to figure out how to get it back through emissions without cats.

Tonight I got the car up on stands for the first time and started digging. Garage does not have a lift yet but it’s on the list for sure, working under a lowered car sucks to say the least. Pulled engine covers and looked for obvious leaks and nothing jumped out at me. Changed cabin air filter that was absolutely disgusting, removed upper air box to change the filter there and found car had a K&N. Mann filter I purchased will be returned, going to clean and run the K&N. Car has a silicone Vibrant MAF hose which I removed and found there was a hole poorly cut to fit the 01+ style PCV hose, not happy with how that fits so will probably be converting to the old style PCV and replacing the MAF hose as I’m sure this setup is not air tight.

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Kept digging and found Forge diverter valves that weren’t mentioned and noticed ICM’s were deleted with red top coils installed which was a nice bonus. Pulled out the BKR7E’s and replaced with some Iridium plugs gapped to .028, old plugs were around .032. Pulled front wheels to start the brake job and stared at the wonders of German engineering for a few minutes. Suspension setup on these cars is different than what I am used to seeing to say the least. Got the caliper off and installed new Centric coated rotors then realized the Akebono pads I ordered are for single piston calipers and not dual pistons like I have, not sure how that happened but RockAuto has a nice return policy so other than rescheduling my inspection and having to drive the Chevy again not a huge deal.

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Was considering a brake upgrade but at this point I just want to get the car sorted out and drivable and I’ll worry about the little things later.

While it was on stands noticed the passenger side outer CV boot was completely blown out. Haven’t checked drivers side yet but I’m sure it’s in similar condition.

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Not sure if I’ll just replace the boot or throw new axles in yet but leaning towards the axles as the car is new to me.


Guess I will be ordering more parts so I can drop the car off for inspection, at which point I’ll be hooking up the laptop to get some baseline logging done so I can start making changes!


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[q20v]

Welcome! And looks like a great car to start tinkering with!

Good choice on upgrading exhaust / intercoolers. Your setup is very close to mine and you should be holding higher boost in the upper rev range. Here's one of my logs from the summer.

Working on these cars is very rewarding but can also escalate quickly to very frustrating. My advice, and take it for what it's worth, is keep it simple, work out the bugs, get some seat time with it, and do lots of research before jumping into the big turbo pool. A solid K04 setup can be very reliable and enjoyable, but I'll be the first to admit that boost is addictive and ultimately you'll never be happy...

Oh, and whatever big plans you have for the car, do it before your house closes / marriage and the honey-do list / kids hit your bank account. Or after your first wife but before your second. Ask me how I know

Power Boost Actual by barry.goss, on Flickr

[Joel_S4]

Congrats on finding a clean B5. I'm new to the B5 world as well as I picked up a silver sedan about 6 months ago and still in the honey moon phase. My wife says I'm obsessed since I'm constantly buying parts for it lol.

Good luck on the build and I'm looking forward to seeing future updates.

[avant1987]

Welcome and good luck! Great advice posted above. Ko4s make these cars a blast to drive, enjoy it. Dial it in mechanically, so if you do decide to jump into a bigger turbo build in the future you aren’t chasing your tail on maintenance items while trying to make it faster!



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[belms4]

Congrats my man, great find! I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I decided before I buy my first house and have a family I wanted to build a widebody b5 avant while I still can and have extra money and time. Probably the only chance I'll get to do something like this, so I started a year ago. I went with what was available quickly at the time to get started... silver automatic 2002 s4 avant haha. Welcome to the club and enjoy the ride!

Just looking over the pics I'd say replace the front axles with rebuilt oem quality. That's definitely not an oem axle based on how thin it is. An oem axle is probably twice that thick and will last a hell of a lot longer without so many torn boots and other problems. As for that intake hose after the maf, I'm guessing this car is a 2002? I think 2002 was the only year where the pcv/brake booster system had an extra hose plugging into the intake like that. You'd need a new silicone hose there for sure, but likely not a new pcv setup. Most people with the 2002s just cap that line that plugs into there. It was meant for extra vacuum pull under heavy braking, but nobody has ever seen any difference there and obviously the 00 and 01s never had it.

[eurogz]

Appreciate the welcome. Cars an 01.5. Not sure if I just want to cap that line or do something different, prefer a cleaner look.

For now I’ll just throw cheap aftermarket axles in to get me going but thinking there will be raxles going in down the line. Main concern right now is passing emissions and inspection and getting use of my garage back.


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[RMode]

Another PA person :)

Given stock intercoolers, and possibly no fuel pump, your boost curve sounds right where it should be tbh. Once the larger ics are in you can then work on the boost side of things.

[eurogz]

Another PA person :)

Given stock intercoolers, and possibly no fuel pump, your boost curve sounds right where it should be tbh. Once the larger ics are in you can then work on the boost side of things.

Learning not to scrape the shit out of this thing on PA roads is fun.

Should I be looking at the fuel pump as well? Gonna be going in there for a sending unit anyway. Finding conflicting info on needed fueling for K04’s


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[RMode]

It takes some skill for sure! Where in Pa?

For the pump, definitely want to go in there and see what’s there. From there, several upgrades exist and are straightforward. It’s a nexesssry thing to run the turbos at their peak level (in the 23 psi range on pump fuel, assuming genuine K04s)

[eurogz]

It takes some skill for sure! Where in Pa?

For the pump, definitely want to go in there and see what’s there. From there, several upgrades exist and are straightforward. It’s a nexesssry thing to run the turbos at their peak level (in the 23 psi range on pump fuel, assuming genuine K04s)

Live in the Philly suburbs but commute to the Lehigh Valley area.

Bosch 044 still the way to go? Thought I read somewhere they were being phased out. Tuner did 550 EV14’s so pump may have been replaced but can’t say without checking especially when the intercoolers and exhaust were skipped. Hoping the 550’s are enough, can’t reliably get E85 where I’m at so will be staying with 93 and potentially adding meth.


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[RMode]

Live in the Philly suburbs but commute to the Lehigh Valley area.

Bosch 044 still the way to go? Thought I read somewhere they were being phased out. Tuner did 550 EV14’s so pump may have been replaced but can’t say without checking especially when the intercoolers and exhaust were skipped. Hoping the 550’s are enough, can’t reliably get E85 where I’m at so will be staying with 93 and potentially adding meth.


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Very cool, not too far (Berks for work)

044 is no more but I’m sure plenty of stock exists, since they made it for decades and was used on so many cars stock. I run it on mine. But tons of other pump options to do regardless from Walbro, AEM, Protec and many others. Depending on which you go, an adjustable fpr is a nice idea to dial in idle and part throttle, low boost.

[avant1987]

I am in PA as well- Glen Rock, PA. It sounds like we need to do a southeast PA B5 get together at some point this summer… even if it is just the three of us. Haha.


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[RMode]

I am in PA as well- Glen Rock, PA. It sounds like we need to do a southeast PA B5 get together at some point this summer… even if it is just the three of us. Haha.


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There’s lots of us…it may be one of the highest concentrated areas of the US with S4’s there is :) Always up for something though

[jrieder]

ECS claims to have 044’s in stock on their website. They don’t, it’s a different pump. Found that out the hard way.


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[belms4]

I'd heard the same thing that 034 was shipping some generic unit now that isn't the real Bosch made 044. I don't really like the 044 unit I have in one of mine. It's loud as hell even mounted in tank. I'm trying a Walbro450 on my avant build. Cheaper and flexible for e85 too. I do also run a stock fuel pump and stock intercoolers on my daily stage 3 k04 build for what it's worth and I've not had any issues there, though I know I'm leaving something on the table (1 to 2 psi boost) with flow and cooling using stock ICs.

[Heavy Winter]

Nice find! In terms of the "wrong" badge on the front, it may have come that way, with the later badge on the rear. In researching my Imola, I found something online that said that some of these cars during the transition from the "old" S4 logo to the "new" logo got the old logo on the front grill and the new logo on the rear hatch. My car (2001) came that way, but I can no longer find the link and never was able to confirm if the information was correct. I ended up deleting the rear badge and living with the front badge, as those who know these cars know that Imola was an S4 only color in the B5.

Good luck with your project, looking forward to seeing the results!

[eurogz]

Small update, not much time on my hands but trying to get done what I can. Got the passenger side pretty much buttoned up tonight, axle was easier than I expected. Jacked the hub up as far as it would go, axle dropped right out beneath the trans no problem, new one popped right in. Spent more time cleaning and greasing than anything else. Got the wheel back on and the very last stud doesn’t get tight so looks like I’m replacing the hub next. Started on the drivers side but decided to continue that tomorrow.

Got proper emblems in the mail from a forum member, also scored an entire cluster for less than the cost of lcd replacement. Old cluster will go on the shelf and get a colormfd at some point.

Bonus D2 S8 sans front bumper:

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[TwoSnelz]

Oh, and whatever big plans you have for the car, do it before your house closes / marriage and the honey-do list / kids hit your bank account. Or after your first wife but before your second. Ask me how I know

Stop. This hurts.. Trying to save for a wedding and already bought my house. Still trying to build the car slowly but am getting worried the part searching will get harder and harder. I slept on buying new windshield cowls and we all know how those are to find.

OP good luck nice car I always wanted an Avant but also Cactus, hard to have both these days lol.

And yea welcome to board, more PA people is always good! Wilkes barre area here

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[kyle farthing]

Nice to see another Santorin Avant! I’m in delco/montco and have had mine since 2015. Mostly stock except for stage 1 Blake tune, ASP catback, Bilstein/H&R suspension and an endless list of maintenance items.

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[eurogz]

70 and sunny here today so took the car out for the first time in a while. Feels so much better on the highway now that the steering wheel isn’t dancing every time I touch the brakes. Also replaced the cluster with a refurbed unit I scored from a forum member. Nice to have a working DIS.

Scanned with VCDS and found a bunch of random codes, mostly hvac / central locking related other than a code for a front o2 sensor. Cleared everything, we’ll see what comes back.

Reached out to SRM last week and was told intercoolers would be shipping by last Friday, now end of day Wednesday and still no tracking number. Cars going for inspection then I can start on the exhaust, really not looking forward to doing downpipes without a lift.

Side note, anyone have a spare rear O2 sensor laying around? Car has none which is nice because they’re already coded out but want to run a wideband for logging so will need to make a harness.


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[RMode]

When I did my wideband, I bought a $20 one off amazon, and used it for the harness/plug only. Worked out great. Did a high temp sleeving as well

[GrumpyBear]

Small update, not much time on my hands but trying to get done what I can. Got the passenger side pretty much buttoned up tonight, axle was easier than I expected. Jacked the hub up as far as it would go, axle dropped right out beneath the trans no problem, new one popped right in. Spent more time cleaning and greasing than anything else. Got the wheel back on and the very last stud doesn’t get tight so looks like I’m replacing the hub next. Started on the drivers side but decided to continue that tomorrow.

Do you mind telling where you got the axles/boots from? Mine are also shot, been putting off the work for a while.

[eurogz]

Do you mind telling where you got the axles/boots from? Mine are also shot, been putting off the work for a while.

Honestly they are shitty Duralast axles from autozone, only used them because I needed them fast and they were in stock. Raxles are the way to go and what I will be using next time I have them apart.


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[diabolical1]

welcome to the board. :)

Wanted it to be Cactus in the worst way but knew I had a better chance of seeing Jesus so I settled with just “not silver”.

thought this was funny. Santorin is my favorite color and Cactus is my second, so i know what you mean.

anyway, the car looks good. i can't wait to see how your car turns out. i like your approach. good luck with it.


so the S8 is yours too?

[eurogz]

S8 belongs to my uncle but lives in my driveway most of the time, have a bumper for it in the garage. Joke about buying it from him for the wife but he won’t let it go


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[Tommy_y0]

Cool build thread, makes me miss my avant. Was a full stage 3 setup with ER coolers, built trans, etc. Brilliant black but needed an entire paint job and ended up parting with it about a year and a half ago.

However - once the B5 bug bites you it's hard to get away. I'm picking up a laser red 2.8/5 spd tonight that could eventually turn into a sweet shell for a 2.7t swap....

[eurogz]

Small update, have been spending most of my free time working on house things. Coming closer to closing and then I can shift focus to the S4 full time. Car has been running phenomenally, averaging about 22psi under full throttle. Noticing a weird vibration mostly under decel, turning seems to exacerbate the noise which would normally point me to the front axles that I just replaced. Car is too low to really be able to crawl under and start searching. Only really noticeable off throttle in 3rd/4th and goes away when I push the clutch in. Other day we had some hard rain, hit full boost in 3rd and traction control engaged, vibration was then felt under acceleration for a bit before disappearing. Not sure which way to go here until I can get the car in the air and just start wiggling things.

AEM wideband is here and ready for install when I do the exhaust. Has now been 7 weeks since I placed the order for my intercoolers, reached out to SRM for the 3rd time to find out what the deal is. Supposedly cores are done and they are just waiting on hoses, was promised they would ship by end of March and here we are halfway through April. Time is limited so was hoping to knock this all out at once.


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[eurogz]

Got tired of waiting for intercoolers and had some time yesterday so I got the exhaust knocked out. Was not fun. Clearly step 1 of assembling a B5 at the factory is to start with the downpipes and build the rest of the car around them. Would have been much easier with a lift. Sounds nice and throaty wish it was a bit louder though. Took it for a 30 min drive last night with no issues, left for work this morning and got a CEL as soon as I started the car. Rear O2’s are coded out so not sure what the deal is, maybe I forgot a plug somewhere. Will get it scanned when I get home but drivability does not seem to be affected.

Intercoolers are supposed to ship next week but this is like the 5th potential ship date I have been quoted, will get those and the wideband installed at the same time. Lots of work on the house which doesn’t leave me much car time.

Edit: snagged a scan tool quick, current codes:

P0300 random misfire
P0304, P0305, P0406 Cyl 4/5/6 misfire
P1116 O2 heating Bank 1 sensor 1 open circuit
P0134 O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1 no activity

Either busted an O2 sensor or plug isn’t seated I’m assuming, will check on that tonight.


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[eurogz]

Another update:

Replaced bank 1 front o2 sensor and all is well there. Must have damaged during downpipe install.

SRM intercoolers finally arrived after a ridiculous wait for hoses. Intercoolers themselves were high quality. Was disappointed with the hoses, passenger side lower hose had to be bent to fit. Came with zero installation instructions and was not an exact fit. Managed to get them in but if you are not paying attention there are several “gotcha” steps that could have bitten me. Receiver drier is closer than I would like to the passenger side intercooler even after bending the supplied bracket. Several interference issues with rad support, frame rails, and drivers side horn. Again I am pleased with the intercoolers themselves but wait time and zero installation support were bummers.

After installing the intercoolers and catless exhaust car woke right up, spools quicker and pulls harder. Was clearly choked up before.

Had a minor boost leak at 20+ psi that presented itself as a “squeaking” noise, kind of like when you pinch the neck of a balloon. Tightened intercooler hose clamps and that issue resolved itself. Have went through several bottles of power steering fluid in the past week or two, removed the cooler for intercooler install and hoses are leaking. Did not have the right size oetikers on hand so used worm gear clamps, will have to remove the bumper again and do it properly. Cranked on the worm gear clamps which slowed the leak greatly, will end up trimming the hoses and using proper oetikers soon. Was making it about 30 miles before the pump starting groaning.

AEM X series wide band was installed, hovers around stoich at normal driving and am seeing AFR’s in the 10 range under full boost. Not sure what pump is in the car, was concerned it wouldn’t keep up but obviously is not an issue as I am running a tad rich under boost. X series setup threw me for a bit of a loop as it has both a positive and a negative 0-5v output, tapped into the sensor ground at the ECU for the negative. Have not had a chance to do any proper logs to verify my wiring but no issues so far.

Next on the agenda is to replace or repair the fuel sending unit so I have a working gauge, while I’m in there I want to identify what pump is being used.

Also hunting for a set of wheels, stock wheels are powdercoated black and aren’t in the greatest shape, missing a center cap as well. Looks kind of ghetto. Would love a set of LM’s but that money is better spent on engine internals for big turbos, will probably end up with some VMR 710’s unless I can find some nice used wheels for a decent price. Undecided on gunmetal vs silver but leaning towards silver.

While slightly inebriated I busted out the drill and made myself some poor man’s e codes, obviously not perfect but free vs $600 was a no brainer.

Car is a riot and having tons of fun driving it. Got absolutely waxed by a sleeper SRT4 the other day which has me pondering big boy turbos…

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[Chris_722]

Looks like you've got a really nice build happening. I'm starting with a beater that was parted out 7-8 years ago. A real basket case.
But I almost enjoy the build more than actually driving the car... The problem is not with the car... It's between the ears with me...

[eurogz]

Felt like spending money lately. Got some new shoes, ordered a flat bottom steering wheel and finally ordered a sending unit so I will have a working fuel gauge. New front hubs and wheel bearings on the way to deal with a stripped lug bolt. Burning through the list of small things I wanted to do to the car, going to start getting expensive soon. Trying to do a lot of research on 2.7 vs 3L builds and turbo selection, most of what I’m finding is outdated. Was originally thinking 770’s but don’t seem to exist anymore, TTE is probably the direction I’m headed. The K04 setup is awesome but getting used to the power and already wanting more, would love to see 6-700hp out of this car. Wish E85 wasn’t so scarce in the area.

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[zatch_303]

Looking great! Awesome progress so far.

[TwoSnelz]

Let me know when you ditch your K04s!



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[eurogz]

Let me know when you ditch your K04s!



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For sure! Gonna be a while yet until I pull the trigger. Thinking about picking up a spare motor to build at my own pace and then I can just swap and go without having the car tying up the garage for months. Definitely going to have a lift installed before I’m ready for a motor pull haha, the jack stand thing is getting old.


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[eurogz]

Installed an 034 x34 intake I scooped up used yesterday and did an oil change, now seem to have my first real issue that popped up with the car since I have owned it. Noticed as I was pulling the car into the garage the wideband showed AFR’s around 16. After installing the intake AFR’s we’re all over the place. At initial start up I was seeing 18-20, blip the throttle a few times and could get it to level out around stoich. 1st gear I would run around 18. Full boost running high 13’s low 14’s, dip into the 12’s here and there. Car feels fine, no CEL, but VCDS does show a P0130. Long term fuel trims looked fine, didn’t check short term trims. Intake should not flow that much better than stock to run that lean. Thinking I may have an exhaust leak, O2 sensor on that bank is pretty new. Hoping I have a chance to look for leaks tomorrow, maybe a downpipe nut backed off?

Tried to set up ME7Logger to pull some data, was not able to pull the bin for my ECU. VCDS shows software version 8D0997551R which is not one I have seen before. Still scratching my head over that one. Will have to play with the flash tool some more to see if I can get it to read, not very intuitive.


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[eurogz]

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Well that was an easy diagnosis, thankful for the wideband and inspection camera lol. Hopefully can just snug up the downpipe later this week and go. Definitely do not feel like replacing that gasket.


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[rharris]

From one Santorin owner to another, looking good.

[eurogz]

From one Santorin owner to another, looking good.

Thanks! Was not my first choice in color to be totally honest but it has really grown on me, especially with the wheel change.

Also tightened up the downpipe and all is good. AFR’s are back where they should be, saw traction control engaging several times on the commute to work this morning haha. Going to play with ME7Logger some more this weekend and see if I can get that worked out, not sure what tune is currently on the ECU but it is definitely read protected.


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[eurogz]

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S4 badge on the steering wheel was in poor shape, was really bothering me. Decided to replace the badge, documenting the process as I went:

Step 1: Remove Old Badge

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Step 2: Install New Badge

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Much better!


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