B8.5 piston/ring replacement - oil consumption

[Chillaxin]

I'm thinking of a rebuilt for my 2015 Q5 2.0 TFSI. I heard good stuff about Kolbenschmidt pistons that will fix the oil consumption issue and looked for them on ebay. I found a surprising low price for the 4 piston set. Is that price really possible or might they be a chinese copy of Kolbenschmidt pistons?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13372588996...3ABFBM3sySoZdg

I used these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/36331097315...d84%7Ciid%3A14 They are made in Germany and are the waffle style OCR.

[g-rex]

Here for a bump and follow-up.

5 months after the motor went back in. I did two oil changes in the first 75 miles to get all assembly lube out of the motor. We are now at 3,000 miles on the rebuild and it isn't burning a drop of oil. I check it via dipstick and we monitor with the onboard computer regularly. The level doesn't change. It stays right where it is supposed to be.

Of course after I got it fixed, my wife remembered how much she enjoyed driving it and has pretty much claimed it for herself. I decided to sell my Suburban and upgraded to a '14 Mercedes GL450. Granted that one comes with its own possible host of issues, but I'm certainly prepared for whatever it may throw at me. Finally getting a lift for the shop garage in a week or two, so I'll be set.

[Kolbenringe]

Here for a bump and follow-up.

5 months after the motor went back in. I did two oil changes in the first 75 miles to get all assembly lube out of the motor. We are now at 3,000 miles on the rebuild and it isn't burning a drop of oil. I check it via dipstick and we monitor with the onboard computer regularly. The level doesn't change. It stays right where it is supposed to be.

Of course after I got it fixed, my wife remembered how much she enjoyed driving it and has pretty much claimed it for herself. I decided to sell my Suburban and upgraded to a '14 Mercedes GL450. Granted that one comes with its own possible host of issues, but I'm certainly prepared for whatever it may throw at me. Finally getting a lift for the shop garage in a week or two, so I'll be set.

For me, it was a new experience to drive anywhere and not have to worry about the oil level dropping while I was watching it. It was turning ridiculous, like I couldn't drive 50 minutes down the highway without 1L of oil consumed each way. It's really a novelty to not have to bring 10L of motor oil on my trips to Tromso, Norway.

The only thing that still sucks about the car is the stereo and I really need to find better speakers that work with the OE headunit. They're so damn bad.

[FourRingsC6]

So I have 2010 A4 Avant with 140k miles original motor / new timing.
I just did 2100 miles from NY to GA and back with ZERO oil consumption. Before you ask: no rings have not been done in the past.
I do see a lot of B8 cars that come through my shop with oil issues. 2 weeks ago we did a 2011 A5 that was burning 1qt every 200 miles. We replaced pistons / rings / gaskets and bolts and off she went. I’ve done few other ones in the past for customers and one for car that I sold. Process isnt very complicated if you have space and tools just takes a while to do. With that said of you’re Upstate NY (Cortland NY 13045) area and having oil or timing issues PM me maybe I could help.


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[A4Audi]

So I have 2010 A4 Avant with 140k miles original motor / new timing.
I just did 2100 miles from NY to GA and back with ZERO oil consumption. Before you ask: no rings have not been done in the past.
I do see a lot of B8 cars that come through my shop with oil issues. 2 weeks ago we did a 2011 A5 that was burning 1qt every 200 miles. We replaced pistons / rings / gaskets and bolts and off she went. I’ve done few other ones in the past for customers and one for car that I sold. Process isnt very complicated if you have space and tools just takes a while to do. With that said of you’re Upstate NY (Cortland NY 13045) area and having oil or timing issues PM me maybe I could help.

@FouRingsC6 - a question for you, if I may, since it would appear that you do this work regularly...

I also have a 2010 A4 Avant 2.0T, that just ticked over to 90K mi. I'm looking to dive into the internals and correct my consumption issue, since I'm using a quart about every 200-300 mi. I have most all of my parts in now and I just need to decide on the pistons themselves. Right now I'm looking at JE's forged pistons just because they're about ~$300 less than OEM (full set). I'm seeing that USP Motorsports has two options available:

Option #1:
JE Piston Set @ 82.5mm, with a compression ratio of 9.6:1
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/329244-7391.html

Option #2:
JE Piston Set @ 82.5mm, with a compression ratio of 10.3:1
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/JE-Pi...mm-10.3.1.html

Both of these options run a 21mm wrist pin, so I can keep my existing rods (save even more $$$)! But the real difference is the compression ratio - 9.61:1 (stock) or 10.3:1 (higher). What, if anything, is required to move to higher compression ratio? Can all other internals remain stock? Is this advisable at all? Are there gains to be had just moving to a different ratio?

Any input appreciated!

[beatsageo]

The benefit of higher compression is more net power, you get a really snappy low end. The difference between stock and 10.3:1 is not particularly large but area for concern is generally pre-ignition. If you don't have a way to modify the ignition timing, or are not planning on adding methanol/ethanol I would not do it and stick to stock.

[Kolbenringe]

The benefit of higher compression is more net power, you get a really snappy low end. The difference between stock and 10.3:1 is not particularly large but area for concern is generally pre-ignition. If you don't have a way to modify the ignition timing, or are not planning on adding methanol/ethanol I would not do it and stick to stock.

Wouldn't the ECU adapt to the extra compression via the knock sensing? IOW, wouldn't the ECU tend to just keep the timing as far advanced as possible until knock is detected, even with higher compression and no tune?

Can they be run without a tune and not end up triggering a CEL due to some parameter being exceeded?

[Theiceman]

Absolutely you would have to use higher octane Gass as the car will pull timing due to the higher compression and triggering knock sensors.
Personally I would NOT do this.

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[beatsageo]

Wouldn't the ECU adapt to the extra compression via the knock sensing? IOW, wouldn't the ECU tend to just keep the timing as far advanced as possible until knock is detected, even with higher compression and no tune?

Can they be run without a tune and not end up triggering a CEL due to some parameter being exceeded?

Yes the ECU would adapt to knock by pulling timing out of self preservation and its pretty aggressive at that, so you would not realize any of the potential gains. You need not be worried about a CEL as much as a bent rod or broken piston.

I have not personally tried that high on pump gas with the EA888 but I am almost certain you would need to modify the ignition profile to realize any meaningful power gains for the compression increase, or run Ethanol without a tune....maybe.

[Perry01]

My neighbor has a 2015 Allroad with 130k miles. He burns 1 qt. of oil every 500 miles. Does anyone have a ballpark estimate what a good independent shop would charge for parts and labor including water pump and timing chain?

[Theiceman]

It's an engine out and complete tear down job so I would think north of 5k easy..

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[Shane Horning]

My neighbor has a 2015 Allroad with 130k miles. He burns 1 qt. of oil every 500 miles. Does anyone have a ballpark estimate what a good independent shop would charge for parts and labor including water pump and timing chain?

I've done 12 of these builds in the last 2 years and normally get between 3500 to 5k in and most of those were with forged internals and all were with new timing and bearings

[Perry01]

I've done 12 of these builds in the last 2 years and normally get between 3500 to 5k in and most of those were with forged internals and all were with new timing and bearings

My neighbors really love their Allroad and it would cost a lot to replace it so I think spending the $ for the repair might be a good decision.

[petee_c]

I'm thinking about getting a 2015 A4 as a short term winter car.... Geographically, I'm actually not that far from the real iceman.

I'm an average home wrench. Just wondering what cleaning options I have to clean the oil scavenging ring, be it slot, dot or wavy? I was hoping to use some solution that they market for DI intake cleaning and a nylon brush.

Is there any data out there on home wrenches that have cleaned the carbon build up out of the original rings and re-installed the pistons?

[Theiceman]

I've done 12 of these builds in the last 2 years and normally get between 3500 to 5k in and most of those were with forged internals and all were with new timing and bearings

Do you r and r the engine for that too ?

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[Theiceman]

I'm thinking about getting a 2015 A4 as a short term winter car.... Geographically, I'm actually not that far from the real iceman.

I'm an average home wrench. Just wondering what cleaning options I have to clean the oil scavenging ring, be it slot, dot or wavy? I was hoping to use some solution that they market for DI intake cleaning and a nylon brush.

Is there any data out there on home wrenches that have cleaned the carbon build up out of the original rings and re-installed the pistons?

The rings are a known failure point.. I think to do all the work involved and put them back in would be a disaster.
The stuff is like concrete in there anyway

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[old guy]

I'm thinking about getting a 2015 A4 as a short term winter car.... Geographically, I'm actually not that far from the real iceman.

I'm an average home wrench. Just wondering what cleaning options I have to clean the oil scavenging ring, be it slot, dot or wavy? I was hoping to use some solution that they market for DI intake cleaning and a nylon brush.

Is there any data out there on home wrenches that have cleaned the carbon build up out of the original rings and re-installed the pistons?

Have no idea how well it worked in the long term: Clicky click®️

[petee_c]

Have no idea how well it worked in the long term: Clicky click®️

thx for pointing me there... looks like that guy hasn't been on here since that post... will never know i guess...

[silver_tt]

I wouldn't count on it... like iceman alludes to above, the carbon is very hard. Think carbon == diamonds. IMHO the only cure worth considering is repistoning the engine...... if you're going to go as far as take the engine apart you might as well put new ones with waffle rings in it

[Kolbenringe]

Have no idea how well it worked in the long term: Clicky click®️

"In my uneducated opinion, I think part of the issue in some (the later post-extended warranty high consumption VW Audi 2.0 TSI/TFSI ver888 Gen 1/2/3 Engines) of our engines is not driving the car hard enough."

point 20 from that post. I can confirm that this makes absolutely no difference, considering I drive on unrestricted zones of the Autobahn and/or the car gets warmed up properly and for extended periods nearly every time. Hard driving, extended lean burn over 10k km made absolutely no difference. There was a point where I reported using fuel system cleaner made a non-negligible difference leading some to discuss the piston soak idea. It's worth a shot to reduce the burning, but the problem regarding the drainback holes remains and even using an engine flush doesn't seem to work on removing the deposits there. This is one of the modifications involved in the Kolbenschmidt-developed fix I have- the holes are enlarged. This is also a fix I've seen on one run of Chevrolet LS-engines where the pistons are reused, just the drainback holes are enlarged. There are YT videos on that. The slotted and waffle-spring type oil control rings move much more volume out, but what happens when the drainbacks can't handle that volume? Replacing the rings is only one part of the issue and to me, the fact that the holes are so small and that the engines are usually at 100k km when the rings finally fail tells me Audi was engineering this BS in there. This is a standpoint that consumer protection agencies, auto reviewers, engineers, technical media, and so on have taken on these engines- they were designed to fail, but some failed before the warranty ended in some markets.

As for my fix- I'm at 50k km or so and two years and the engine more or less burns no oil. I might drop down by 100ml in 6000km, but that could be crankcase ventilation burning.

[Shane Horning]

Do you r and r the engine for that too ?

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Yes that is end cost. You can do a lot on these engines for relatively cheap unless the motor has a spun bearing or cylinder badly scratched

[Theiceman]

Yes that is end cost. You can do a lot on these engines for relatively cheap unless the motor has a spun bearing or cylinder badly scratched

That's pretty good... Yeah I found this engine build one of the quickest and easiest I have ever done. But I just find r and r of engines a real pain in the ass these days. Maybe I just don't have the patience for it any more

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[russj262]

I've done 12 of these builds in the last 2 years and normally get between 3500 to 5k in and most of those were with forged internals and all were with new timing and bearings

2016 Audi Q5 2.0T CPMB - 108k miles burning 1qt/150 miles. Getting started on the rebuild but need some details on the parts needed. Can anyone provide a list of the items I will need?

Is there a kit? Gasket kit? piston/ring options, bolt kit, bearings, etc.

Has anyone used the KS pistons from eBay successfully and tested them?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284042698204
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133751771728



Low cost and another 30k miles are my goal.

Thank you,

Russ

[silver_tt]

Buying parts from FleaBay is a joke and I would never consider it (I could tell you some crazy stories) but that's just my opinion.

I have a rebuild for the exact same engine although mine at the same mileage as yours doesn't burn any oil:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...th-parts-lists

[Theiceman]

2016 Audi Q5 2.0T CPMB - 108k miles burning 1qt/150 miles. Getting started on the rebuild but need some details on the parts needed. Can anyone provide a list of the items I will need?

Is there a kit? Gasket kit? piston/ring options, bolt kit, bearings, etc.

Has anyone used the KS pistons from eBay successfully and tested them?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284042698204
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133751771728



Low cost and another 30k miles are my goal.

Thank you,

Russ

i would say ebay is full of counterfeit as well as genuine chineesium not even claiming to be KS pistons.

The first thing i would look for is the KS stamped on the top of the piston , not a guarantee that they are genuine , but more of a guarantee than if they have no markings at all if you know what i mean.

but yeah 2016 ... wow .. we knew it was coming , just a matter of time..

i remember when i rebuilt my 2014 ( that's why i did the thread as no one had done one before and there was no info at the time ) it was one of the first and people said i was full of crap and the issue had long been fixed .. lol .... those comments didnt age well...

I am actually really pleased to see so many DIY guys tackling this , once you get passed the intimidation of actually removing the engine, its pretty easy ..

oh Shane i wanted to ask you , when you do it do you leave the harness in the car and just disconnect everything ? or pull the harness with the engine ?

i pulled mine with the harness but not sure i would do it that way to do it again.

[russj262]

I appreciate the parts list and encouragement. To me the most intimidating thing is acquiring the parts needed. I have never removed or rebuilt an engine but I am very capable mechanically.

Is there a kit for the bolts or gaskets? or best to buy everything in pieces?

[Theiceman]

I appreciate the parts list and encouragement. To me the most intimidating thing is acquiring the parts needed. I have never removed or rebuilt an engine but I am very capable mechanically.

Is there a kit for the bolts or gaskets? or best to buy everything in pieces?

lots of kits available from China on ebay and aliexpress .. as to the quality who really knows . lots of guys here have created lists to get you started. I just ordered everything individually ... made a few mistakes but not the end of the world.



that pile was before i ordered the water pump.

[silver_tt]

That thread I created is basically a "kit" that I put together using my VIN and an Audi dealer's ETKA

[Chillaxin]

I appreciate the parts list and encouragement. To me the most intimidating thing is acquiring the parts needed. I have never removed or rebuilt an engine but I am very capable mechanically.

Is there a kit for the bolts or gaskets? or best to buy everything in pieces?

Get the factory service manual. Read all the diagrams and procedures for removing and tearing down the engine. Buy parts for everything that says renew.

[Shane Horning]

i would say ebay is full of counterfeit as well as genuine chineesium not even claiming to be KS pistons.

The first thing i would look for is the KS stamped on the top of the piston , not a guarantee that they are genuine , but more of a guarantee than if they have no markings at all if you know what i mean.

but yeah 2016 ... wow .. we knew it was coming , just a matter of time..

i remember when i rebuilt my 2014 ( that's why i did the thread as no one had done one before and there was no info at the time ) it was one of the first and people said i was full of crap and the issue had long been fixed .. lol .... those comments didnt age well...

I am actually really pleased to see so many DIY guys tackling this , once you get passed the intimidation of actually removing the engine, its pretty easy ..

oh Shane i wanted to ask you , when you do it do you leave the harness in the car and just disconnect everything ? or pull the harness with the engine ?

i pulled mine with the harness but not sure i would do it that way to do it again.

Yes harness stays on car

[g-rex]

Back for the almost 1 year follow-up since rebuilding the engine and getting it back in and running.

We are at 7600 miles since rebuild now, averaging 22-24 MPG, and still zero oil consumption.

[Theiceman]

great news, we all love a success story :) . So many people get taken by buying cars off lots and not realizing the hidden nightmare, its nice to see a few get saved.

[Crucible35]

An interesting dilemma for me.....I've been in and out of these consumption threads for the past few years with my 2015 A4 which started consuming about a litre every 1000kms right around 120,000 kms. This started about three years ago. Never had any CELs so no codes, a huge plume of black smoke out the back if I put my foot down on the throttle. When i do get the smoke, there's a weird clicking sound and it bogs down quite a bit.

The car is at 225,000 kms right now while I've been adding oil. Recently, where I was normally only filling up my gas when the fill tank light goes on (at 1/8th of tank) I have been filling up on Sundays nights only (gas seems to be cheaper) when there's still about a quarter tank. What's interesting is that when i switched to filling up more frequently, I'm now burning a litre every 1500 kms....so consumption has improved. I'm thinking more fuel in the tank increases fuel pressure which might have an effect on the consumption. Because of this, I've put off the idea of moving forward with trading in the car or rebuilding the engine. Thoughts?

[beatsageo]

I'm thinking more fuel in the tank increases fuel pressure which might have an effect on the consumption. Because of this, I've put off the idea of moving forward with trading in the car or rebuilding the engine. Thoughts?

Please don't think this thought stick with driving the lawnmower, don't attempt any repairs yourself.

[Kolbenringe]

That's quite the theory. Fuel pressure slows oil consumption. Ok.

[StuckAntichris]

Im with beatsageo here, I dont think fuel pressure has anything to do with oil consumption. I believe that temperature has a larger effect on oil consumption than the fuel pressure.

I would put on the idea of trading in the car or rebuilding the engine. Just know that the next generation of 2.0T's are not much better in terms of reliability...

[Theiceman]

i cant even get past the " more fuel in the tank increases pressure" bit myself.....

[Kolbenringe]

First time in history fire melts steel, thermite paint, WTC 7, etc.

[Crucible35]

i cant even get past the " more fuel in the tank increases pressure" bit myself.....

I agree....sounds crazy.....and no, wouldn't attempt to do a rebuild myself....I'm just trying to explain why the drop in consumption.

[Theiceman]

I agree....sounds crazy.....and no, wouldn't attempt to do a rebuild myself....I'm just trying to explain why the drop in consumption.

maybe driving it more conservatively ??