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  1. #1
    Senior Member Two Rings arankaspar1's Avatar
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    Convert 2.0 Oil pump system to 1.8 Oil pump

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    Anyone have experience with this?

    I've read on the forums there's excessive oil pressure with the 1.8 pump and when deleting the balance shafts you have to plug the crank case oil galleys.

    Andre@FCPeuro recommended it. EvolutionArmy on AZ says the 1.8 pumps have their own issues.

    What do you think?

    https://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-F...onversion.html

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    I have a spare pump set up for sale, and they do a great job. You can still get low oil pressure issues once in a while, but the smartest thing to do would be to add an oil accumulator to take care of that. Canton racing makes the Accusump, and they池e perfect foe this conversion.


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings arankaspar1's Avatar
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    Well that 1.8 conversion doesn't include the dual-port updated oil pickup version. I'm sure you could "modify" it to fit but I'm not sure I want to.
    Not to mention I read on AZ that with the 1.8 pump you need a different oil-filter housing or adapter plate of sorts. True? Not true?

    I think my next step is to install this oil pressure gauge I got, front and center where I can see it.
    I'm in the process... just awaiting arrival of this adapter https://www.purems.com/Products/CON0...-NPT-T-fitting Does anyone know what the engine side threading is? I'm guessing metric (not NTP).
    It's a Glowshift brand gauge that has an audible warning alarm/light and I can set the lower/upper limits. Not sure of the brand but they seem to have good reviews.

    When my engine blew up a couple years ago I heard a faint tapping about 2 min before the red oil press. screen came on. I've heard from many people that it's too late for that engine by the time screen pops up.
    Do you think this oil gauge would be enough to shut the car off in time to save it? Or do you think the accumulator is a must have for that scenario?

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    Convert 2.0 Oil pump system to 1.8 Oil pump

    This adaptor plate? You値l need one of those. It would be included.

    A gauge isn稚 enough. You値l never kill the engine in time. The Accusump is instantaneous and if used with the electric pressure relief valve, is automatic.







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    B7 Avant, 6MT, Quattro - Brilliant Black: JHM 93 Octane Stage 2 tune, APR HPFP, S3 Injectors, JHM Test Pipe, Stasis Catback, R8 coils, 034 TIP, Custom CIA, 18" VMR 710, Podi Digital Boost Gauge, RS4 rear sway bar, RS4 grill, Eurojet Billet VC, 42DD catch can, Ohlins SL Coilovers w/ Hyperco springs, OEM Bi-Xenon retrofit, GFB DV+, Brembo 18z.

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings 007J's Avatar
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    Never heard of this swap before, sounds brilliant honestly. Please come back and update this thread and let us know what you figure out OP, I'm interested in having this done after reading on it now.
    034 MS RSB & Adj Endlinks, Snub & Bracket, HD Tierods, Adj Front Crtl Arms, Dif inserts, HPFP
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007J View Post
    Never heard of this swap before, sounds brilliant honestly. Please come back and update this thread and let us know what you figure out OP, I'm interested in having this done after reading on it now.
    There are a number of threads about this and even more people who have done the swap. Go forth and find the info.


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    B7 Avant, 6MT, Quattro - Brilliant Black: JHM 93 Octane Stage 2 tune, APR HPFP, S3 Injectors, JHM Test Pipe, Stasis Catback, R8 coils, 034 TIP, Custom CIA, 18" VMR 710, Podi Digital Boost Gauge, RS4 rear sway bar, RS4 grill, Eurojet Billet VC, 42DD catch can, Ohlins SL Coilovers w/ Hyperco springs, OEM Bi-Xenon retrofit, GFB DV+, Brembo 18z.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings canadianA4B7's Avatar
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    Jump up idle to 880 rpm and the chain no longer slacks on the pump causing the dip in RPM. You値l also want to grab the 1.8 check valve setup through 034 this is a 2ndary crankcase vent added for safety of the engine. The billet check valve works perfectly as it痴 designed for this block. The mocal sandwich plate and cooler are a must have which will aid in the ease of accusump install and keep the additional 3-4 litres of oil nice and cool (160* sandwich plate iirc)

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings viziers's Avatar
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    If it helps I had the 1.8 oil pump conversion done but I kept the stock 2.0 oil housing and have had no issues with oil pressure and I have roughly 150k on the motor.


    vizi
    05.5 B7 A4 longest running with no motor issues at 373whp

    Car:Custom JRP Mani & DP, GT3076, FWD to AWD conversion, IE 144/20, Wossner 83.5mm 9.2:1Cr, CM FX400, Ported Head Ferrea valves, EJ VC, EJ S3 Dv Flange, Custom STASIS Exh, Precision 600hp FMIC, RS4 injec, Tial 38mm, 034 SD mounts, Apikol Rear Diff, RS4 Sway, APR Snub Mnt, DO 4 port w/m direct inject, HPFPUpgrade 142bar PRV & StgII HPFP, 1.8 oil pump conv, Crnk dowel pin
    Absolute Automotive Tuned to 373+awhp @23.5psi (Corrected)

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jayz691's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viziers View Post
    If it helps I had the 1.8 oil pump conversion done but I kept the stock 2.0 oil housing and have had no issues with oil pressure and I have roughly 150k on the motor.


    vizi
    Do you have an oil pressure gauge installed? Or checked it with a mechanical gauge? Seen people that don't install the 1.8t filter housing have crazy high pressure.

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Audizine Forum mobile app

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings viziers's Avatar
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    I do at startup when cold out it will max my gauge out at 150 psi but after it warmed up it would run at about 60 psi when driving. When the motor was first built it was high for a while but after the motor broke in the pressure dropped to what it is now. I have checked it with a mechanical gauge and it idles currently at 23-29 psi and with a load it is around 65-75psi depending on temps.


    vizi
    05.5 B7 A4 longest running with no motor issues at 373whp

    Car:Custom JRP Mani & DP, GT3076, FWD to AWD conversion, IE 144/20, Wossner 83.5mm 9.2:1Cr, CM FX400, Ported Head Ferrea valves, EJ VC, EJ S3 Dv Flange, Custom STASIS Exh, Precision 600hp FMIC, RS4 injec, Tial 38mm, 034 SD mounts, Apikol Rear Diff, RS4 Sway, APR Snub Mnt, DO 4 port w/m direct inject, HPFPUpgrade 142bar PRV & StgII HPFP, 1.8 oil pump conv, Crnk dowel pin
    Absolute Automotive Tuned to 373+awhp @23.5psi (Corrected)

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jayz691's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viziers View Post
    I do at startup when cold out it will max my gauge out at 150 psi but after it warmed up it would run at about 60 psi when driving. When the motor was first built it was high for a while but after the motor broke in the pressure dropped to what it is now. I have checked it with a mechanical gauge and it idles currently at 23-29 psi and with a load it is around 65-75psi depending on temps.


    vizi
    Wow, 150psi? Yeah, thats what I figured, lol. Thats crazy high.

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Audizine Forum mobile app

  12. #12
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    no. just disable the gear with WASA motors freewheel. its way easier to install and costs way less. I did it to my engine I swapped last year and its been fantastic. no issues, great oil pressure, and the vibration is hardly noticeable. youtube

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayz691 View Post
    Wow, 150psi? Yeah, thats what I figured, lol. Thats crazy high.

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Audizine Forum mobile app
    Cant imagine what would happen in a cold climate. Actually I can and its not good.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I have no practical experience with the 1.8L oil pump conversion. But what I conclude from this discussion is that unless you also convert the oil filter housing there is no oil pressure relief valve in the system (hence, viziers 150psi). The 2.0L oil pump has the oil pressure relief valve right at the pump as with most other makes (The valve is not to be confused with either the oil by-pass valve or anti-bleedback valve). I'm guessing the 1.8L pressure relief must be at the oil filter housing. Realize that at higher RPM a significant portion of the oil (probably about 50%) is shunted directly to the sump by the pressure relief valve yet it maintains the requisite 60 to 65 psi through the balance of the lubrication system. This is to avoid over pressurization of the oil filter and everything downstream of the valve avoiding a number of problems. At higher pressure not only does the oil pump rob the engine of power (you would be surprised by how much) but causes a lot of stress to the oil pump drive components among other problems. I think viziers is lucky not to have had problems. It's another thing to keep in mind when considering such a change.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Axis's Avatar
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    Just listed an adapter for sale if it can help someone
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brillo View Post
    I have no practical experience with the 1.8L oil pump conversion. But what I conclude from this discussion is that unless you also convert the oil filter housing there is no oil pressure relief valve in the system (hence, viziers 150psi). The 2.0L oil pump has the oil pressure relief valve right at the pump as with most other makes (The valve is not to be confused with either the oil by-pass valve or anti-bleedback valve). I'm guessing the 1.8L pressure relief must be at the oil filter housing. Realize that at higher RPM a significant portion of the oil (probably about 50%) is shunted directly to the sump by the pressure relief valve yet it maintains the requisite 60 to 65 psi through the balance of the lubrication system. This is to avoid over pressurization of the oil filter and everything downstream of the valve avoiding a number of problems. At higher pressure not only does the oil pump rob the engine of power (you would be surprised by how much) but causes a lot of stress to the oil pump drive components among other problems. I think viziers is lucky not to have had problems. It's another thing to keep in mind when considering such a change.
    Good guess, yes the 1.8 has its relief valve in the oil filter housing. Most of this is to deal with the viscosity change you get in oil from hot to cold. Properly setup a full warmed up motor should not have its bypass valve open. A long time ago I had a motor with sticky bypass valve the over pressure would blow the oil filter apart. Not good for a lot of reasons.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings canadianA4B7's Avatar
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    Bypass is seen in photo below. High pressure can be reduced by adding shims to this bolt/spring internals. I did a lot of testing with this oil pump stuff. Many differences were not considered long ago. Just like removing both pumps and seeing how much oil both move in 1 360 degree rotation? if nothing needs to change for tuning why are the 2 driving gears different? Is the tensioner from 2.0 to 1.8 making the same tension on the chain? All of these answers help to make the conversion work perfectly. As mentioned 1.8 pump, IE adapter plate, 1.8T filter housing (oh ya and knowing which filter to use makes a major change in pressure) running 880 rpm at low idle. 60 psi start up, 20 psi idle running condition and zero over pressure, no dips at idle, no loss of oil pressure, no whining complaining of vibration. When you do things right you have no issues. Jamer12Lucy photo is the tested unit. I added a mocal cooler and sandwich plate to regulate oil temps. This added 3+ litres of oil to the system. How much weight is 3+ litres of oil and does this affect oil pressure on a rotational mechanical pump system?




    Here痴 the parts and holes (red arrows) needed to install


    Pump, the pick up tube need to be correct, black windage tray goes over the rear most hole of pump bolt goes through both, tensioner needs to be drilled buy the kit they sell to do this.



    Last edited by canadianA4B7; 09-14-2021 at 04:36 AM.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    The gear changed to provide a 1 to 1 pump to crank drive ratio on the balance shaft motor, that works with the 2 to 1 ratio of the balance shaft gears to cancel the second order harmonic. You can get higher output , non balance shaft pumps, just look at the diesel setups.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin C View Post
    The gear changed to provide a 1 to 1 pump to crank drive ratio on the balance shaft motor, that works with the 2 to 1 ratio of the balance shaft gears to cancel the second order harmonic. You can get higher output , non balance shaft pumps, just look at the diesel setups.
    I may be wrong but I seem to remember that the diesel pumps had pump drive shaft failures. But the shafts on those pumps may have been used to drive other things placing extra stress on the drive shaft. Again, not sure about this.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadianA4B7 View Post
    Bypass is seen in photo below. High pressure can be reduced by adding shims to this bolt/spring internals. I did a lot of testing with this oil pump stuff. Many differences were not considered long ago. Just like removing both pumps and seeing how much oil both move in 1 360 degree rotation? if nothing needs to change for tuning why are the 2 driving gears different? Is the tensioner from 2.0 to 1.8 making the same tension on the chain? All of these answers help to make the conversion work perfectly. As mentioned 1.8 pump, IE adapter plate, 1.8T filter housing (oh ya and knowing which filter to use makes a major change in pressure) running 880 rpm at low idle. 60 psi start up, 20 psi idle running condition and zero over pressure, no dips at idle, no loss of oil pressure, no whining complaining of vibration. When you do things right you have no issues. Jamer12Lucy photo is the tested unit. I added a mocal cooler and sandwich plate to regulate oil temps. This added 3+ litres of oil to the system. How much weight is 3+ litres of oil and does this affect oil pressure on a rotational mechanical pump system?

    Here痴 the parts and holes (red arrows) needed to install

    Pump, the pick up tube need to be correct, black windage tray goes over the rear most hole of pump bolt goes through both, tensioner needs to be drilled buy the kit they sell to do this.
    Great info Canadian, thanks. Two questions: 1) You mention the bypass valve which I think is in the oil filter housing you show in your first picture. Is this the oil filter bypass valve you are speaking of? If not, how does the valve shunt bypass oil back to the sump? There doesn't seem to be a drain to do this. 2) Your last picture shows a photo of the 1.8L oil pump (I think). On the right side of the photo are two holes with a coil spring visible through the holes. I think this is the oil pressure bypass valve, and the holes are the dump drains back directly to the sump. If I'm wrong, what is the function of those holes and spring? Thanks.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brillo View Post
    I may be wrong but I seem to remember that the diesel pumps had pump drive shaft failures. But the shafts on those pumps may have been used to drive other things placing extra stress on the drive shaft. Again, not sure about this.
    Not all diesel pumps were the balance shaft units, many are a standard pump that looks like a normal 1.8t pump. Non balance shaft diesel pumps are what you want to look for. Should be the same as a 1.8T pump but is set up to spin faster. I have not verified this one fits, but this is worth looking at. It also has a built in relief valve that is set for about 170 psi. It can be changed.

    EDIT: Also look at the 2009 TDI oil pumps.

    https://www.cascadegerman.com/produc...kaAhLYEALw_wcB
    Last edited by Kevin C; 09-14-2021 at 01:15 PM.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Kevin C Not to drag on this discussion but have to admit being somewhat confused. Canadian's photo, the photo at the link you just posted, and other Intarweb photos all show oil pumps with what appears to be oil pressure relief valve replete with spring and drain holes integral to the oil pump. Yet Canadian, Viziers, and the customer comment at the link below all mention not having a oil pressure relief valve, and report excessively high oil pressures especially when cold. Further, some folks seem to be confusing a bypass valve with the oil pressure relief valve. Both the 2.0L and 1.8L engine groups have bypass valves at or near the oil filter housing. And I know at least the 2.0L engine has an oil pressure relief valve at the oil pump which is the typical place to put one. I just think it's important to get this sorted out for those folks who might be considering this conversion. Look at the photos and read the customer comment at the link below:
    https://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-F...onversion.html

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brillo View Post
    Kevin C Not to drag on this discussion but have to admit being somewhat confused. Canadian's photo, the photo at the link you just posted, and other Intarweb photos all show oil pumps with what appears to be oil pressure relief valve replete with spring and drain holes integral to the oil pump. Yet Canadian, Viziers, and the customer comment at the link below all mention not having a oil pressure relief valve, and report excessively high oil pressures especially when cold. Further, some folks seem to be confusing a bypass valve with the oil pressure relief valve. Both the 2.0L and 1.8L engine groups have bypass valves at or near the oil filter housing. And I know at least the 2.0L engine has an oil pressure relief valve at the oil pump which is the typical place to put one. I just think it's important to get this sorted out for those folks who might be considering this conversion. Look at the photos and read the customer comment at the link below:
    https://www.uspmotorsports.com/USP-F...onversion.html
    This is worth figuring out. As best as I can the pumps do have a pressure an emergency relief valve. From what I have read its set to about 170 psi. That explains the why one of the posters maxed out at that pressure. Also, any pressure relief valve should be installed before the filter. Forcing thick oil to bypass after the filter causes the the filter to go into bypass sooner / more often. The 1.8t filter adapter works. The other issue is the 2.0T pump appears to have more capacity. That's why I was suggesting the TDI pump with a smaller driven gear. It's possible to change the spring out in the 1.8t style pump. The only concern would be is it designed for constant cycling or not and where the oil goes, VW seems to have gone to some effort on where it dumps bypassed oil. If you do a bad job you can aerate the oil. I'm running a filter adaptor on the 06F block using the 1.8t relief valve and it works perfectly.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I don't know the Audi specs on the opening pressure for the oil relief valve but most there autos I've worked on the pressure is usually around 80psi so as to never over-pressurize the system. 170 psi strikes me as shockingly high but like I said I don't know the VAG design specs. Thanks for the response Kevin.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Two Rings arankaspar1's Avatar
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    Ok...

    Objective: get ahead of balance shaft failure
    Method1: Freewheel VIS $205 WASAMOTOR $174
    Method2: iABED BS assembly with plugged shaft galleys and someone's used 2.0 oil pump($350 after core exchange when you return your pump to be used for the next guy?)
    Method3: Delete balance assembly and install 1.8 oil pump.
    Things needed:
    - 1.8 pump kit - tap new threading into your crankcase $519
    - Pressure relief valve $185
    - Plugs for balance shaft oil galleys Can't find the plugs anywhere but the forum
    - 1.8 oil filter housing ECS $320
    - iABED $249Block-off oil filter housing adapter IE $200 XLR8 $245
    - oil filter sandwhich 4-port $40
    (for oil filter housing to continue using 2.0 cooler)
    - Modify intercooler charge pipe so that the location of the new oil filter isn't interfering with it.
    - Accusump $350
    - Accusump electronic PRV $400
    - 2 extra quart of oil
    Notes: I don't see a way to get the revised dual-port oil pickup to work unless you modify it.

    Parts to prevent 1 type of engine failure: $2300.
    New motor from dismantler: $1400.
    Working on your car more than you drive it: Priceless.






    BS Delete https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...=balance+shaft
    "delete everything inside your oil pan and convert to the 1.8t oil system, new oil pump, new crankshaft gear, new oil filter housing...lots of money"
    Check valve post https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...SHAFT-PLUG-KIT
    Last edited by arankaspar1; 09-20-2021 at 06:07 PM.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    Issam is working on a special piece for me at the moment.

    There are other options than listed. Clipping the balance shaft gear is the easiest. The hardest, most expensive, and most effective is dry sump.




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    B7 Avant, 6MT, Quattro - Brilliant Black: JHM 93 Octane Stage 2 tune, APR HPFP, S3 Injectors, JHM Test Pipe, Stasis Catback, R8 coils, 034 TIP, Custom CIA, 18" VMR 710, Podi Digital Boost Gauge, RS4 rear sway bar, RS4 grill, Eurojet Billet VC, 42DD catch can, Ohlins SL Coilovers w/ Hyperco springs, OEM Bi-Xenon retrofit, GFB DV+, Brembo 18z.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by james12lucy View Post
    Issam is working on a special piece for me at the moment.
    There are other options than listed. Clipping the balance shaft gear is the easiest. The hardest, most expensive, and most effective is dry sump.
    I agree with this. Second (and last) choice would be the idler sprocket approach. Based on everything I have read on AZ and other forums there are just too many unknowns with the 1.8L conversion for my taste.

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    The non balance shaft pump is not an issue to make work correctly. A few random comments. The 1.8T / Diesel pump high relief pressure it probably to insure it doesn't open inadvertently from pressure pulsing. Pulsing would be more intense next to the pumps outlet. The idea is to only use the relief valve in the filter adaptor but just in case, have a valve the prevents pump damage. As far as the dual pickup on the 2.0T motor I don't think its needed with the 1.8T type pump. The 2.0T pump spins faster and is probably more sensitive to restriction that then causes cavitation on poor pumping performance.

    To me the biggest issue with the 1.8T pump is adapting the 1.8T filter housing. That makes the free wheel adaptor attractive.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin C View Post
    The non balance shaft pump is not an issue to make work correctly. A few random comments. The 1.8T / Diesel pump high relief pressure it probably to insure it doesn't open inadvertently from pressure pulsing. Pulsing would be more intense next to the pumps outlet. The idea is to only use the relief valve in the filter adaptor but just in case, have a valve the prevents pump damage. As far as the dual pickup on the 2.0T motor I don't think its needed with the 1.8T type pump. The 2.0T pump spins faster and is probably more sensitive to restriction that then causes cavitation on poor pumping performance.

    To me the biggest issue with the 1.8T pump is adapting the 1.8T filter housing. That makes the free wheel adaptor attractive.
    Kevin C Totally appreciate where you are coming from on the 1.8 diesel oil pump conversion and completely understand the pump gearing change you've described - makes sense. Here is the reasoning for my comment expressed above. If one doesn't mind doing the work, just hacking off the balance drive gear is cheap, relatively straignt forward, and totally effective - no more balance shafts, and normal (OEM stock) oil pump operation, and no messing with adaptation of the oil filter housing, etc. Also, in my experience (though not with the A4) the oil pump pressure release valve is an issue. I've never heard of a lubrication system running at 170psi before oil is dumped back into the sump. I believe that the stock 2.0L oil pump pressure relief valve is set at about 75psi, which is where my hot engine oil pressure maxes out at and above about 4500rpm. Normally, with trochoid type of hydraulic pumps, the flow rate is almost linearly proportional to rotational speed (actually tapers slightly as rpm increases). At 5000rpm and higher as much as 45% of the oil goes directly back to the sump through the relieve valve because, apparently, as with most engines I'm familiar with the lubrication system isn't really designed to handle (or need) any higher flow rate to maintain proper lubrication, and higher pressures would only result in a parasitic drag on engine performance, and might possibly present other issues such as collapsed oil filters (if not designed for high pressures), and shaft seal leakage (T/C). I do like the simplicity of the 1.8L pump. The integral oil pump/balance shaft system was not one of VAG's best ideas.

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    FYI, My Mitsubishi 2.6 has a pump relief setting of 120 psi. The setting of the 1.8t pump may be taking into account pressure pulses of the pump, the closer you are to the pump the more intense they are. This is a noise level on top of the basic pressure, see the link for details. Since the oil system does not have a damper, the valve sees these pressure peaks. The closer you are to the source the larger the pulses. I have built dampers for some of my motors to reduce this. If you superimpose the spikes on top of the base pressure you end up with a higher value, my theory is that's where the high value comes from.

    Its only a backup for the main valve. Also the 1.8t filter and adaptor can easily handle the higher pressures and the filters burst pressure is still well above that.

    The basic operating pressure is still controlled at the filter adapter. FYI, my Mitsubishi also combines the pump and the balance shafts but in a different way.

    https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/st...number=8807110
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

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    Kevin Thanks for the paper reference-had a chance to read it this morning which brought back fond memories of my undergraduate course in hydraulics. There are a couple of noteworthy points which you likely noticed. The buffer device performed better (dampening the pressure pulse) at low RPM but lost effectiveness at higher RPM. For example, at 5500 rpm where the nominal test pressure was over 300 psi and the pulse amplitude is less than 10% of nominal pressure (and the pulse width is only 1/1000 seconds), but the dampening difference was only 2% of nominal pressure. This is likely do to both the unavoidable inertial effects of the buffer and the elasticity of motor oil at operating temperature (especially with some entrained air) - hardly worth the effort. I doubt a similar buffer would have any appreciable effect on our lubrication system, especially on the operation of the pressure relief valve. I知 not sure where this conversation is going but want to reiterate that I have no problems with the 1.8L pump approach which could be a perfect solution for those who want to obviate potential oil pressure problems caused by balance shaft bearing wear. I have enjoyed the discussion to be sure.

    Although I'm not familiar with it, it sounds like the Mitsubishi oil pump/balance shaft system may be avastly better design than the VAG 2.0L system we are dealing with. One can only hope. Take care, Brillo

  32. #32
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    For completeness:

    1.8T oil pressure guide (lots of great information): https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...leshooting-DIY

    Regarding the 1.8T dual pressure valve system:

    Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves? I've tried to find a concrete answer to this question, but to no avail. So I really wanted to know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating.

    According to the Bentley Manual the bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174 psi).
    That's what I found on a couple of sites. Past my own explanations you would need to take it up with the engineers that designed the system. Short story is the pumps integrated valve opens at about 174 psi.

    Pump Volume:

    From the B6 site"
    The AMB engine and most late model 1.8t engines use a Gerator style oil pump. Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotates eccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring. (fig-11) For every 30ー of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the two gears and the sidewalls of the pump housing. Because the components of the oil pump are precision machined and clearances between the teeth of the gears are typically less than .075mm a vacuum is created each time a cavity is formed. The volume of this cavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 0.0028 liters. As the gears continue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pump outlet.

    For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed and collapsed, so the pump displacement per revolution is 0.019 liters. Also note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from the crankshaft at 70% of the crankshaft speed. So for every revolution of the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pump is therefore 0.014 liters.
    The 2.0t pump has a six lobe ring and a five lobe "gear" or rotor that is 2.8 cc's per cavity (my measurement using a plaster cast and a burette). That is .0028 liters. Six cavities, so the pump displaces .0168 liters per revolution, slightly less than the 1.8t pump, however the 2.0T's pump is running at the same speed as the crank so you get the full volume per revolution. Basically the 1.8t pump running the 1.8t gears has .014 liters per rev of volume and the 2.0T has .0168 liters per rev.

    That works out to 1.2 times the greater theoretical flow than 1.8T's pump at its stock drive ratio.

    The 2.0T's pump has a higher volume per crankshaft revolution than the 1.8T's pump


    There is a fix using factory parts:

    Diesel pump gear with the 1.8T pump to increase the volume:

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...740&viewfull=1


    06A115105B pump
    038115121A gear from 2.0TDI oil pump
    06A105209 crank gear
    yes i have more pump turns/rpm, If use stock oil pump gear(1.8t) pressure is too low on idling speed (800 rpm)
    That confirms that you can overdrive 1.8T pump to better match the volume of the 2.0T's pump. Short story is there is a better option if you want to go the pump retrofit route. Use the TDI pump drive to increase the volume and a 1.8T filter housing and adaptor to get the correct relief valve pressure. The other options are of course keeping the stock 2.0T pump and chopping the shaft or fitting an idler gear.

    I had been meaning to measure the 2.0T's pump volume for a while, I have never seen any published data s this is probably new info. I hope this helps, at the very least it's good to know that the 2.0T used a higher volume pump the the 1.8T. I have the 2.0T pump on my 1.8T and it seems to work really well with better oil pressure at idle than stock. Part of that is its a fresh motor, the other part is the higher volume pump.
    Last edited by Kevin C; 09-19-2021 at 12:45 PM.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brillo View Post
    Kevin Thanks for the paper reference-had a chance to read it this morning which brought back fond memories of my undergraduate course in hydraulics. There are a couple of noteworthy points which you likely noticed. The buffer device performed better (dampening the pressure pulse) at low RPM but lost effectiveness at higher RPM. For example, at 5500 rpm where the nominal test pressure was over 300 psi and the pulse amplitude is less than 10% of nominal pressure (and the pulse width is only 1/1000 seconds), but the dampening difference was only 2% of nominal pressure. This is likely do to both the unavoidable inertial effects of the buffer and the elasticity of motor oil at operating temperature (especially with some entrained air) - hardly worth the effort. I doubt a similar buffer would have any appreciable effect on our lubrication system, especially on the operation of the pressure relief valve. I知 not sure where this conversation is going but want to reiterate that I have no problems with the 1.8L pump approach which could be a perfect solution for those who want to obviate potential oil pressure problems caused by balance shaft bearing wear. I have enjoyed the discussion to be sure.

    Although I'm not familiar with it, it sounds like the Mitsubishi oil pump/balance shaft system may be avastly better design than the VAG 2.0L system we are dealing with. One can only hope. Take care, Brillo
    FYI, my damper was only to reduce noise from the pump that was transmitted through a braided AN line to a dash mounted gauge. It did what it was supposed to do. The main point of what I was making is that a pumps output is not smooth and the relief valve setting may need to account for that.
    2003 02X Six speed swapped, RS4 RSB, H&R FSB, B7 brakes, 2.0T stroker, DSMIC's, B7 CTS K04 turbo.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Two Rings arankaspar1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james12lucy View Post
    Issam is working on a special piece for me at the moment.

    There are other options than listed. Clipping the balance shaft gear is the easiest. The hardest, most expensive, and most effective is dry sump.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Looks like you're doing a dry sump?

  35. #35
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    Convert 2.0 Oil pump system to 1.8 Oil pump

    Quote Originally Posted by arankaspar1 View Post
    Looks like you're doing a dry sump?
    Correct. Between Issam, IE, and Peterson, I値l have it finished this fall/winter. Just waiting on the feed plate and crank mandrel to be anodized.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Krmass25 View Post
    Did the entire 1.8t pump conversion with issam's skoda s2000 adapter plate and a beefy little oil cooler.

    I personally installed everything and know it is all put together tight as a drum. That being said: I'm getting an inconsistent random oil light on the dash. It does not throw the low pressure warning. Just the yellow light.

    Anyone else have experience with this?
    pretty sure u need a 1.8 oil sensor. i see this pump conversion pointless unless the pump is already failing, if shafts got no play wasa freewheel is the way to go


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    Quote Originally Posted by Krmass25 View Post
    Did the entire 1.8t pump conversion with issam's skoda s2000 adapter plate and a beefy little oil cooler.

    I personally installed everything and know it is all put together tight as a drum. That being said: I'm getting an inconsistent random oil light on the dash. It does not throw the low pressure warning. Just the yellow light.

    Anyone else have experience with this?
    Raise idle.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Two Rings arankaspar1's Avatar
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    Back from the dead.
    I just bought an accusump system. Do you guys know of a good place to fit it or adapter I can use without changing out the whole oil cooler?

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    Veteran Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arankaspar1 View Post
    Back from the dead.
    I just bought an accusump system. Do you guys know of a good place to fit it or adapter I can use without changing out the whole oil cooler?
    Talk to Issam at iABED. He makes a great billet solution for the oil filter housing that deletes the OEM oil cooler and allows you to run an external cooler. This also allows for an inline accusump and oil thermostat. I知 pretty sure I sold mine when I went to dry sump. But a phenomena option.


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  40. #40

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