Going Stage 2 - What Handling Mods Necessary?

[s42014DSG]

Hi,

I'm going stage 2 on my 2015 S4. I'd like to make sure that the car is able to handle the extra power well (driver skill notwithstanding).

Can anyone tell me what minimum handling mods would be recommended to make sure the car's handling is an appropriate match for stage 2 power?

In particular, I'd like to know if a combination of sway bars and strut/other braces (or even just a rear or rear and front sway bar) would be sufficient without a suspension upgrade.

Thanks!

[wrxkyle]

no handling mods needed for any of the stages. handling mods would be needed for the track (autocross/road race) only.

get a cr15 brace first and maybe a 034 or alukruez x brace. now the suspension mods will make a difference, for sure, in daily driving but they aren't needed. tires and good brake pads will get you further than a swaybar will.

[Izzyz28]

Nothing needed, these cars are big heavy turds. Even the typical "fast" dual pully setup with good gas(500 HP+) is quick, but certainly isn't going to overdrive even the stock brakes, much less any of the suspension system.

[whts4]

Do you have the ADS or std suspension? Sport diff?

[s42014DSG]

Standard sport suspension. Sport diff.

[mahhdd]

I'd recommend an upgraded Heat Exchanger well before any suspension mods.

The 034 RSB + Moog End Links have done really well for me. I took it up to the mountains the other day, and the thing is tight! Admittedly I did the 034 insert kit at the same time.

034 Springs are next. I want an H&R Sport level drop; but, going with 034 (0.5" less of a drop) because the ride quality is basically OEM with the benefit of additional handling.

[s42014DSG]

I'm putting in the 034 RSB but haven't opted for end links. My current links are in good condition. Thoughts?

I also am having the CTS Turbo Heat Exchanger put in, as well.

[djn876]

I'm putting in the 034 RSB but haven't opted for end links. My current links are in good condition. Thoughts?

I also am having the CTS Turbo Heat Exchanger put in, as well.

Personally rear end links are kind of a waste for me, they are so short you just aren't going to get any significant change in stiffness. I tried the Moog ones too and couldn't get it to line up right. This was on a lowered SQ5 though so slightly different setup.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[whts4]

I own a 2015 S4 w/sport diff, and a 2017 S5 w/sport diff and ADS.

With regards to your suspension question....

Assuming this not a dedicated track car and mostly a DD or minimal track use I'd recommend the following:

1) CR 15 and an ALK from either Eurocode or 034.....these will stiffen the front end of the car and I think are required....even more so with additional power.

2) Improved handling..step 1) I prefer the Eurocode frt/rr bars on the std suspension w/wo sport diff. This will improve turn-in feel, flatter cornering and increases over all handling....but there is an increase in NVH, especially noticable in the rear. If you'd like less NVH, the 034 rear bar only works fine. You can use stock endlinks on both frt and rear bars for street use.....and they are quiet.

STEP 2) If you are looking for a slight improvement in handling with a modest drop 034 springs are fine (like them better than other options).

STEP 3) I dont recommend for a daily or mostly daily a set of Bilstein struts, but they will add a step more to improved handling.

STEP 4) Don't recommend for general street use...coilovers, bc they are overkill and problematic.

3) Upgrade tires and wheels depending how demanding and to what level you wish to attain.

Non - suspension:

Beyond these, the stock pads are competent for light track use but for aggressive sustained driving in mtns or light track, there are several options available depending on your driving style. Obviously a big brake kit is great, but overkill in almost all non-track use, IMO.

[mahhdd]

I'm putting in the 034 RSB but haven't opted for end links. My current links are in good condition. Thoughts?

I also am having the CTS Turbo Heat Exchanger put in, as well.

The End Link upgrades were a "while we're in there" type of job. I only paid $30 for them, so why not.

I hear the stock end links are fine.

[s42014DSG]

Super helpful, everyone. Thanks!

[fmzip]

I would highly suggest better brakes. I just did the 4 pot Porsche Macan 4 pot Brembo front caliper upgrade. This is a heavy car, stage 2 is serious hp and torque gain. Best $600 spent for safety and piece of mind.

Stopping the car is first and foremost, both in a straight line and in the twisties

[s42014DSG]

I would highly suggest better brakes. I just did the 4 pot Porsche Macan 4 pot Brembo front caliper upgrade. This is a heavy car, stage 2 is serious hp and torque gain. Best $600 spent for safety and piece of mind.

Stopping the car is first and foremost, both in a straight line and in the twisties

I'm not sure on this. I think better pads (as I have to reduce fade), ideally with some good fluid, should be enough for me. I don't need to stop quicker per se so much as make sure the system can take repeated use on the twisties. Given I'm much more sedate these days, I doubt I'll hit any kind of limit.

Beyond that, I won't be driving at higher speeds than I do currently, and I'm happy with the brakes I'm replacing for their stopping power in relation to my current driving habits.

[fmzip]

I'm not sure on this. I think better pads (as I have to reduce fade), ideally with some good fluid, should be enough for me. I don't need to stop quicker per se so much as make sure the system can take repeated use on the twisties. Given I'm much more sedate these days, I doubt I'll hit any kind of limit.

Beyond that, I won't be driving at higher speeds than I do currently, and I'm happy with the brakes I'm replacing for their stopping power in relation to my current driving habits.

With 0-60 speeds in the low 3 second range, the car is a beast and the factory single piston brakes really are extremely inadequate. It's not something you need to do immediately but when it's time to replace your pads and rotors, the extra $600 for calipers is an insurance policy, at the very least.

At 55 years of age, I'm very sedate in comparison to my younger years. Slowing this car down properly is far more important for me at 55 than it ever was at 25. Might be one of the reasons I am stressing the need for brakes.

When you romp on it with stage 2, and you will, the desire for better brakes will be apparent immediately. It's a lot of added horsepower and the braking system from the factory is not designed for it. You'll see what I mean when you get your car back. It's scary fast, you will love it! :)

In order of handling mods though:

1) Alu Kreuz
2) Cr-15
3) Rear Sway Bar

[sepheroth86]

I'm not sure on this. I think better pads (as I have to reduce fade), ideally with some good fluid, should be enough for me. I don't need to stop quicker per se so much as make sure the system can take repeated use on the twisties. Given I'm much more sedate these days, I doubt I'll hit any kind of limit.

Beyond that, I won't be driving at higher speeds than I do currently, and I'm happy with the brakes I'm replacing for their stopping power in relation to my current driving habits.

With 0-60 speeds in the low 3 second range, the car is a beast and the factory single piston brakes really are extremely inadequate. It's not something you need to do immediately but when it's time to replace your pads and rotors, the extra $600 for calipers is an insurance policy, at the very least.

At 55 years of age, I'm very sedate in comparison to my younger years. Your post says "handling mods with stage 2", you too are obviously a spirited driver like the rest of us.

When you romp on it with stage 2, and you will, the desire for better brakes will be apparent immediately. It's a lot of added horsepower and the braking system from the factory is not designed for it. You'll see what I mean when you get your car back. It's scary fast, you will love it! :)

I find that with many vehicles when used on the racetrack with stock or even increased power. That the factory sized brakes with good race pads and fluid work nicely.

My track car is a 300whp 2000lb Honda Civic, I use stock brakes and good pads with no issues. Car stops as quickly as a C7 Corvette.

[fmzip]

I find that with many vehicles when used on the racetrack with stock or even increased power. That the factory sized brakes with good race pads and fluid work nicely.

My track car is a 300whp 2000lb Honda Civic, I use stock brakes and good pads with no issues. Car stops as quickly as a C7 Corvette.

A 2000lb Honda Civic, a 3330lb C7 Corvette, versus a 4000lb S4 is why your car stops on a dime. When you are behind the wheel of a stage 2 S4 with your foot to the floor, you'd feel what I mean if you really had to stop.

We aren't comparing apples to apples here with a lightweight car like a civic. The S4 is hard to stop with a lot of added horsepower. The RS4 and RS5 don't have single piston calipers for this very reason

[sepheroth86]

A 2000lb Honda Civic, a 3330lb C7 Corvette, versus a 4000lb S4 is why your car stops on a dime. When you are behind the wheel of a stage 2 S4 with your foot to the floor, you'd feel what I mean if you really had to stop.

We aren't comparing apples to apples here with a lightweight car like a civic. The S4 is hard to stop with a lot of added horsepower. The RS4 and RS5 don't have single piston calipers for this very reason

The apples to apples comparo would be that my stage 2 A6 from 165mph seems to stop reasonably well on the street with Akebono pad (definitely not an aggressive pad).

A 300hp, 2000lb car would be a lot like a 600hp, 4000lb car no?

[Izzyz28]

LMAO, an S4 is not a "rocket ship", nor does it need upgraded brakes if you're not absolutely hammering the shit out of it or using it on a road course. The brake setup is as simple as it gets, but will easily overpower the tires, you aren't stopping any quicker no matter what you do on the brake side.

[jason bouchard]

I am dual pulley and I know the car isnt crazy fast or a race car but I do think brakes are a nice upgrade, I am running stainless steel brake lines good pads and rotors but I am definitely looking to do an oem style upgrade ( Qs5, Porsche, oem brembo etc)

[fmzip]

LMAO, an S4 is not a "rocket ship", nor does it need upgraded brakes if you're not absolutely hammering the shit out of it or using it on a road course. The brake setup is as simple as it gets, but will easily overpower the tires, you aren't stopping any quicker no matter what you do on the brake side.

This is my very point. The one time I may really need to stop it, the stock brakes are not there.

Maybe I am the only one on the forum that floors their Stage 2 S4? Maybe the majority go stage 2 to take it out for a leisurely Sunday drive? I'd like the security of having proper braking for the added velocity, versus structural braces and sway bars. Handling mods are irrelevant for added HP. Yes the stock brakes will still stop the car but I'd rather have the ability to be able to stop a few feet shorter when I absolutely need to. If you are adding speed it's wise to offset it with added stopping power. Nothing more than that, nothing to LMAO about it, just a prudent suggestion.

;)

[sepheroth86]

This is my very point. The one time I may really need to stop it, the stock brakes are not there.

Maybe I am the only one on the forum that floors their Stage 2 S4? Maybe the majority go stage 2 to take it out for a leisurely Sunday drive? I'd like the security of having proper braking for the added velocity, versus structural braces and sway bars. Handling mods are irrelevant for added HP. Yes the stock brakes will still stop the car but I'd rather have the ability to be able to stop a few feet shorter when I absolutely need to. If you are adding speed it's wise to offset it with added stopping power. Nothing more than that, nothing to LMAO about it, just a prudent suggestion.

;)

Sticky tires will do more for reducing braking distance than any big brake upgrade. The car can only slow down as quickly as the tires hold the road to maintain that friction.

[fmzip]

Sticky tires will do more for reducing braking distance than any big brake upgrade. The car can only slow down as quickly as the tires hold the road to maintain that friction.

Good suggestion for the summer months. Winter months with the snowies are an obstacle to contend with, wish I lived in CA!

$600 for calipers is far cheaper than a set of PS2's though and they never need replacing :)

[Izzyz28]

Sticky tires will do more for reducing braking distance than any big brake upgrade. The car can only slow down as quickly as the tires hold the road to maintain that friction.

I tried to tell the guy, but he wants to believe "big brakes" are going to stop more quickly on the same tires that the stock brakes will already lock. But, I don't drive like a complete asshole and go 160 on public roads with cross-traffic, maybe he does and likes the "added security" for repeated hard stops?

[fmzip]

I tried to tell the guy, but he wants to believe "big brakes" are going to stop more quickly on the same tires that the stock brakes will already lock. But, I don't drive like a complete asshole and go 160 on public roads with cross-traffic, maybe he does and likes the "added security" for repeated hard stops?

Dude, making suggestions, I don't drive 160. You're need to scoff and be right seems to be the most important thing for some reason

If I have one hard stop that saves me a few feet from an accident of some sort, I am happy. If you don't feel it's a purposeful mod utilizing 4 pot calipers versus a single pot caliper once you add a 100hp to your car, then skip it. I don't see any low 3 second 0-60 cars with single pot calipers from the factory, do you? Understanding caliper design and function may be useful to understand how clamping pressure is performed by each design. I highly doubt cars with everything equal, tires included, would stop at the same distance on a hard stop with various calipers designs in use:

https://haynes.com/en-us/tips-tutori...brake-calipers



Everything adds something to the equation, better tires, better brakes etc....

The OP is looking for suggestions, he can decide which is worthwhile. That's the point of the forum discussions, not to LMAO at one another

$1000+ for stickier tires
$600 for better calipers
$150 for better pads
$350 for a lower brace
$130 for an upper brace
$100 for some brake lines



Any other suggestions?