New-used engine installed, please help!

[das4]

I ended up swapping a 2014 S5 motor into my 2013. I just tried to fire it up tonight without success. I believe everything is reconnected properly. I checked wires to make sure there were no loose plugs etc. I don't have vag com or advanced software to access the modules, but I used a scan tool included from my tuner and got several codes:

P106A
P0118
P017D
P2014
P2019
P0010
P0020
P0638
P012C
P0112


I did try clearing them, no luck. I can hear the fuel pump turning on and that's it. Smell fuel also. The motor doesn't even try to turn over. I know it's difficult to diag over the internet, anyone have any suggestions of what I should look at? I am concerned about the harnesses the run through the valley in the top center of the motor are maybe different? I also replaced a connector, I believe pins to all be the same as before, do to it breaking during disconnection. I'm at a loss. Also believe the intake runners were closed on the motor, not sure if that would cause engine not to turn at all. I can rotate motor by hand for what it's worth.

[igotag]

Not to bash you but I wouldn’t attempt this without VCDS.


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[das4]

Not to bash you but I wouldn’t attempt this without VCDS.

That's fair


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That's fair

[Smac770]

P0010 Intake (A) Camshaft Position Target Error Bank 1, Signal voltage 4.70...5.40 V
P0020 Intake (A) Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit / Open (Bank 1), Signal voltage 4.70...5.40 V
P0112 Intake Air Temperature (Sensor 1) Circuit Low Input, Signal voltage < 0.15 V
P0118 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit Open, Engine coolant temperature < -40°C
P012C Charger inlet pressure short to ground, Signal voltage < 0.2 V
P017D Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor, Signal voltage > 3.10 V
P0638 Throttle Actuator Control Range/Performance (Bank 1), [Time to open to reference point > 0.6 Sec. and Reference point 1.5%] or [Time to close over reference point > 0.3 Sec and Reference point 1.0%]
P106A Throttle control system - implausible signal with throttle position
P2014 Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit (Bank 1) Short to ground, Signal voltage < 2.20 V
P2019 Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit Bank 1 Open circuit, Signal voltage, < 0.20 V

At least it all seems wiring related. Have fun.

[chi123]

I'm just going to guess but seems like you might have connected the connectors wrong. Recheck the ones under the supercharger.

[fastboatster]

lots of these errors say open circuit or low voltage, did you connect all the grounds? besides the ground for starter/alternator harness, there's one ground on the strut tower (with 2(!!!) wires connected to the same spot) and another one near the ecu box. Double check that these are connected.

[djn876]

You shouldn't smell fuel either, probably want to make sure injectors and things aren't leaking.

I would agree there is likely some common ground points or maybe even a sub harness that didn't get connected.

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[das4]

I checked connections again for probably the 20th time. Same result. This is gonna be fun to chase.

[djn876]

I checked connections again for probably the 20th time. Same result. This is gonna be fun to chase.

You will need to go through the wiring diagrams for each of those sensors and see what if anything is common to them. At least that saves you physical work at the car.

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[f1torrents]

So many open circuits and shorts to grond.

You for sure
-Forgot to connect something.
-Didn't connect something properly.
-Forgot to connect a Ground.

Either way its not "that bad" of a situation really...

[das4]

I went down to the starter itself and verified it's connected/grounded. Passenger side ground cables connected, alternator, all of. Connectors checked again. Same result.

I did notice both of the intake flaps are stuck closed. I couldn't open them by hand: my old motor I can. Maybe this is related? Still doesn't fully explain all of the other ground/short faults. This is a pain. I'm legitimately wondering if it's related to the wiring that runs through the center up top from all of the sensors to the main harness. Maybe there are some slight variations in pin outs from my 2013 to a 2014? Sensors all seem to have the same OEM parts numbers. I also verified the mechanical parts of the long block are all the same between the two years.

[fastboatster]

Did you check driver side grounds, there are 2 spots, one on the strut tower, another is under the bulkhead cover (bulkhead is basically a compartment between the false and real firewalls

[fastboatster]

Another question- did your replacement engine come with its own wiring harness or you had to transplant your old one? I’m 99.9% sure ecu pinouts are identical

[das4]

I don't have one on either strut. Didn't remove one from there. Only strut mounted related ground was the battery jump point, which was removed for ECS strut brace years ago. The OE harness from the car/engine bay is being used, and the harness that's routed through the center of the V up top is the one that was on the replacement engine. All of the connectors are identical. Sensors all seem to have same VW part numbers. I'm wondering if the intake flaps actuators are faulty: can't open the flaps by hand, they seem stuck. Old motor I can though. Not sure on the pin outs of this motor versus the old, but wouldn't make sense to me for Audi to change them.

I had to replace a connector on one of the 02 sensors as it broke during removal. I checked the wires tonight again and they are as they were from the start. I think you're right: it's not "that bad* since it's more of critical thinking trouble shooting. Less of the labor intensive wrenching. Annoying none the less. Hoping this thread maybe helps another if they ever do a 14+ to 13 B8.5 swap. I couldn't find a lick of material out there on cross compatibility, but a lot of sites suggested they could not be interchanged. There may be an answer as to why in this in the near future.

[Morritse]

I don't have one on either strut. Didn't remove one from there. Only strut mounted related ground was the battery jump point, which was removed for ECS strut brace years ago. The OE harness from the car/engine bay is being used, and the harness that's routed through the center of the V up top is the one that was on the replacement engine. All of the connectors are identical. Sensors all seem to have same VW part numbers. I'm wondering if the intake flaps actuators are faulty: can't open the flaps by hand, they seem stuck. Old motor I can though. Not sure on the pin outs of this motor versus the old, but wouldn't make sense to me for Audi to change them.

I had to replace a connector on one of the 02 sensors as it broke during removal. I checked the wires tonight again and they are as they were from the start. I think you're right: it's not "that bad* since it's more of critical thinking trouble shooting. Less of the labor intensive wrenching. Annoying none the less. Hoping this thread maybe helps another if they ever do a 14+ to 13 B8.5 swap. I couldn't find a lick of material out there on cross compatibility, but a lot of sites suggested they could not be interchanged. There may be an answer as to why in this in the near future.

I did a 15 to 11 swap without issues

[djn876]

I know that comparing B8 S4 engine to my SQ5, looking at some previous diagrams the pinouts were not always the same, so that's a good point too. Should get rmwirinf diagram for both models and make sure that nothing needs to be swapped. Although that's too much stuff for just a couple of pins I would still think there is another issue.

Also, if the lower manifolds were lifted and not installed right they could be stuck. That would not result in the codes you are getting and the car would still run, just not as well.

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[das4]

That's fair. I'm trying to gather wiring diagrams to each for comparison.

I really should have ross-tech for this I know. The reason for this swap: the engine blew, badly, back in July of last year. Wondering if maybe I need reset adaptation etc? The intake flaps are for sure not moving. They seem very stuck

I know that comparing B8 S4 engine to my SQ5, looking at some previous diagrams the pinouts were not always the same, so that's a good point too. Should get rmwirinf diagram for both models and make sure that nothing needs to be swapped. Although that's too much stuff for just a couple of pins I would still think there is another issue.

Also, if the lower manifolds were lifted and not installed right they could be stuck. That would not result in the codes you are getting and the car would still run, just not as well.

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[das4]

That's great to know. Did you have to run adaptations after install? Direct swap?

I did a 15 to 11 swap without issues

[Morritse]

That's great to know. Did you have to run adaptations after install? Direct swap?

Direct swap. Used my old harness. Had to get a different crank position sensor and code out SAI since newer motors don't have it.
There were lots of adaptations done with VCDS but my shop did them all.

[Smac770]

? SAI seems to be just as present on B8.5 3.0T as it was on B8.0 3.0T.
https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../1/131-131030/
https://parts.audiusa.com/p/67825315/079959231C.html

[fastboatster]

OP, just pop the hood and take some pic, perhaps even do a video walkaround of the engine bay. I'm still somewhat confused when you say you didn't have any grounds attached to the strut tower, do you have grounds connected to the hex bolt thing near the ac line port?

there's another location near the strut brace, but we'll get to it later

[das4]

Will be home tonight and take some pics. That ground cap you're showing is jumping point. I do have that, but removed the OE cap when I installed the ECS CF strut brace. They include another screw to secure the brace plate to the tower.

I think my next step will be to swap sensors from old motor to new, potentially along with the harnesses throughout the V valley on top. They worked fine prior to engine blowing, not sure about these on the new motor. Still not sure about the intake flaps situation. Doesn't make sense it won't move by hand: wonder if it's from the carbon issue, but this motor supposedly has 30k on it. Doubt it would cause them to bind/seize this young in it's life.

OP, just pop the hood and take some pic, perhaps even do a video walkaround of the engine bay. I'm still somewhat confused when you say you didn't have any grounds attached to the strut tower, do you have grounds connected to the hex bolt thing near the ac line port?

there's another location near the strut brace, but we'll get to it later

[fastboatster]

Check this ground too near one of the driver side strut bolts. Need to remove the rain train or whatever it’s called
3CB0BF9A-ABB5-4EBD-86F5-ADE597AA623E.jpg

[das4]

A little update: after letting battery charge for about twenty minutes, all but code P0118 went away. Car still won't turn over. Never heard of a coolant temp sensor causing a car not to even crank. Somethings amiss. Contacted seller of the engine, they assured me it's a good motor. They're reputable, so I have faith on their word.

[ShelbyM3]

I know on other platforms the coolant temp sensor can cause all sorts of seemingly unrelated issues. Maybe someone can chime in for the 3.0T specifically.


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[djn876]

Any chance the starter is bad? coolant temp sensor won't prevent starting.

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[das4]

Any chance the starter is bad? coolant temp sensor won't prevent starting.

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That's what I've been wondering since the codes cleared.. worked perfectly fine in the other motor and installed correctly. Slight pain to get out, but might attempt to swap. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze there yet.

[djn876]

Another dumb question, but you tried jump starting it right? Low volts on the battery will cause numerous problems, not sure where the ECU cuts off the starter.

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[hunter_killer]

I’d make sure you’re getting battery voltage at your signal wire to your starter solenoid. Could’ve gotten pinched or damaged on the swap. Also try the old trick of hitting the starter will cranking it.


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[Izzyz28]

Have you left it on a charger overnight and checked battery voltage? Tried connecting a jump pack or second battery? Let me know if you are in the Chicagoland area, I have VCDS and am an automotive diagnostic engineer.

[das4]

I did. I didn't connect directly to the battery. Will try that tonight. I think you're right: likely why I had 10 codes at first. Car had been sitting for 7+ months, battery may be gone at this point. In usually not this careless, life just got crazy for a bit.

Another dumb question, but you tried jump starting it right? Low volts on the battery will cause numerous problems, not sure where the ECU cuts off the starter.

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- - - Updated - - -

Will do. Need to find diagram of wiring harness.

I’d make sure you’re getting battery voltage at your signal wire to your starter solenoid. Could’ve gotten pinched or damaged on the swap. Also try the old trick of hitting the starter will cranking it.


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[das4]

Ironically moved from Chicago to Orlando 8 months ago. Haven't tried a second battery, or charged overnight. I'm going to try and jump at the battery tonight when I get home, I've been using jump points under the hood. Cars been sitting for many months, battery may be toast at this point

Have you left it on a charger overnight and checked battery voltage? Tried connecting a jump pack or second battery? Let me know if you are in the Chicagoland area, I have VCDS and am an automotive diagnostic engineer.

[hunter_killer]

I did. I didn't connect directly to the battery. Will try that tonight. I think you're right: likely why I had 10 codes at first. Car had been sitting for 7+ months, battery may be gone at this point. In usually not this careless, life just got crazy for a bit.



- - - Updated - - -

Will do. Need to find diagram of wiring harness.

The signal wire should be a small wire that comes out of the harness and goes to the starter solenoid. Should be the only wire that doesn’t go to the starter from the solenoid unless Audi has extra wiring going to the solenoid.


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[das4]

Got it. Can eliminate the battery, got a new one and same result.

The other day when I went back in, removed alternator to access the starter, I touched a ground point and what I thought was the ground for the starter and saw a spark. Wondering if somehow the chassis is charged. Obviously something is off, but I've checked every damn connection so many times I've lost count.

The signal wire should be a small wire that comes out of the harness and goes to the starter solenoid. Should be the only wire that doesn’t go to the starter from the solenoid unless Audi has extra wiring going to the solenoid.


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[BrokeBichB8]

Did you try bypassing the ignition contactor/relay and just trying to energize the starter? I haven't looked at the starter on the Audi so it may be impossible in its orientation, idk, but I had a chump try to steal another car of mine and broke the ignition with a screwdriver. Couldnt turn ignition to start but could turn it to "on/run". Try to bypass the contactor and get 12V to the nut on the starter to engage it. There's a 98% likelyhood it'll crank. Else youll prove starter is jammed/junk.

[jl-c]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/attac...&thumb=1&stc=1

it appears to be a standard starter motor ie no earth connections just + connections with earth return via metalwork. As such I am concerned about your conclusion that the chassis could be live. It should not be possible!

[das4]

I'm concerned too. I'll verify that's the case, but I'm sure I didn't have a stray live wire attached to it. The + connector is secured to the starter. No idea where it why there'd be a live connection attached to the chassis.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/attac...&thumb=1&stc=1

it appears to be a standard starter motor ie no earth connections just + connections with earth return via metalwork. As such I am concerned about your conclusion that the chassis could be live. It should not be possible!

[das4]

I haven't tried, I'd love to hit the starter with a 12V source, it's pretty far tucked back under the motor with a relatively small space to work in. At this point, I need to start somewhere and since I know the starter isn't trying, I'll begin there and verify it works. I'll remove front end again and try to hit the + lead with a battery. I'm thinking I'll have to remove the earth connection as well, since it's potentially live. This is so damn odd.

Did you try bypassing the ignition contactor/relay and just trying to energize the starter? I haven't looked at the starter on the Audi so it may be impossible in its orientation, idk, but I had a chump try to steal another car of mine and broke the ignition with a screwdriver. Couldnt turn ignition to start but could turn it to "on/run". Try to bypass the contactor and get 12V to the nut on the starter to engage it. There's a 98% likelyhood it'll crank. Else youll prove starter is jammed/junk.

[das4]

So, I'm 87% sure it's the starter. Hooked battery directly to it, did absolutely nothing. Could be jammed, but also could have been damaged when the engine blew. When I say the engine blew, I mean it had catastrophic failure. This is the old motor on the side where starter lives:

[jl-c]

Wow, that IS catastrophic! Did it maybe hit the starter and send it 'out of round' thus jamming it? It is, as you say, right where the starter mounts.