B7 LS Swap: Retaining AWD

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 08:03 AM

Hello!

Wanted to share my LS swap project I’ve been working on over the winter. The plan is to use an LS4 block, OB2 transmission from the B8 chassis, with a custom flywheel and bell housing adapter. Along with a Holley standalone ecu with the Audi controlling as much as possible to make the car happy. From purchasing a foam mock up block and 3D printing my design, it appears I should be able to get away with not hacking up the from bumper or stock fans if I use the LS4 accessory spacing and a remote water pump. Will post pictures of progress once I figure out how to attach them.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 08:21 AM

The car is a B7 A4 S-line that came with the 3.2. Timing chains went and bent valves. 60BC088E-A49C-443A-9032-B7EDD9B40263.jpg
Mock up block mounted in engine bay (won't be using that intake manifold): 98209415-7D15-44D4-9A21-67D310CCA5EE.jpg
Bell housing Adapter: 528D793B-B322-4E14-AFCC-94520354E840.jpg
Top half of the custom flywheel: 89A7A8EE-7BF3-4CA4-8A5A-8E5E88E72D26.jpg
Audi Accessories on LS4 with 3D printed brackets for mock up: C2D71D05-58F5-4FD9-B299-DBFE818AD160.jpg

**ApeX-CrZn** · 03-19-2021 08:23 AM

Love this..... save the CAD models please!??

**ultima** · 03-19-2021 08:25 AM

I gotta see this car whenever it's done, best of luck on the project!

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 08:35 AM

Made bell housing adapter today. Making transmission cross member this weekend hopefully. Working on finalizing crankshaft to starter ring gear adapter design and then get it machined next week. Will see if B8 starter can turn over the LS. Still need to get accessory brackets welded up (just cut out right now.) For drive shaft, I’ll probably shorten stock B7 assuming I can find a shop locally that can balance it. Front axles from stock 02X are way too long and B8 axles have different outer CV so I’m still trying to find a suitable part from another Audi that will work. Looks like Audi A8 axles might work, but fear that they will still be too long. This is a budget swap so trying to keep costs down as much as possible. Sub frame did have to be clearanced due to the front diff being so much further forward than the 02X. Have to reinforce it or get a tubular. Moroso front sump oil pan clears subframe and front sway bar perfectly.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by ApeX-CrZn

Love this..... save the CAD models please!??

I have 3D models for all the custom parts so far. Might toss around the idea of selling some components once bugs are worked out.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 09:03 AM

@Ultima
Thank you. It's going to be sick when it's done but a challenge to get it on the road for sure! The RS6 swap "Judas" by Timmy or HT Motorworks was definitely the inspiration for this swap. Besides his swap, I have yet to see another that has been done which doesn't require massive modifications from having the LS sit so far forward. Also, to my knowledge no one has adapted a B8 transmission to an LS. Maybe for good reason

**VinnysS4** · 03-19-2021 09:45 AM

I fucking love it!!!! Not many would take on this swap. I’m doing a 2jz swap on my b6 Avant. I’ve been talking About using a B8 transmission, due to the relocation of the axle shafts, for a year or two. Definitely gives more room to push the engine back and not have to cut the front end up.

Keep it coming!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Gin+** · 03-19-2021 10:55 AM

Sick thread!

**Charles.waite** · 03-19-2021 03:04 PM

Whoa!

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 03:52 PM

Here's some more pictures showing oil pan and adapter plate test fitted. Intake manifold, not really sure if I'm gonna flip it which means cutting out false firewall and relocating battery to trunk or make a 90 for throttle body like Audi does. You can see how high the turbo flange is in picture, will have to be moved down to clear hood of course, used an off the shelf ebay kit.

Front bumper / fans clearance: 6CDC4726-EAA0-4454-8C83-B139F0DE5F65.jpg
9043FD6E-F943-4573-8A29-8442C091B08B.jpg
Adapter plate test fitting: 3CE10715-D0E5-4D82-B005-9F364BE89682.jpg

LS4 block is unique as it was in a FWD car and has no starter mounting provision on it like every other LS or SBC so it only requires minimal material to be removed from one of the "ears" of the bellhousing face to clear the Audi starter. Bellhousing pattern is also the GM metric so not many use them for swaps making them cheaper & easier to find. Crank is also 10mm shorter so adapter can be made to fasten the audi ring gear. Bellhousing pattern is also the GM metric so not many use them for swaps making them cheaper & easier to find.

**FatMongo** · 03-19-2021 05:11 PM

Super cool.

What is your plan for front cover and accessories for the LS? Looks like a super tight fit with the lock carrier (front clip) in place.

**Gowking** · 03-19-2021 05:13 PM

Tagged for sickness!

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by FatMongo

Super cool.

What is your plan for front cover and accessories for the LS? Looks like a super tight fit with the lock carrier (front clip) in place.

LS4 crank pulley only sticks out a few inches. The water pump remote lines will stick out further. It’s tight, but will work.

**FatMongo** · 03-19-2021 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

LS4 crank pulley only sticks out a few inches. The water pump remote lines will stick out further. It’s tight, but will work.

Well then, this is going to be sweet! Will the adapter work with the 02X 6 speed? If you can produce engine mounts for an LS and adapter plate for the B7 manual trans, you are going to have demand!

**kippdipp4323** · 03-19-2021 07:58 PM

BF46E9F7-AA82-4B3B-B1F0-10A7813B6A8E.png

Originally Posted by FatMongo

Well then, this is going to be sweet! Will the adapter work with the 02X 6 speed? If you can produce engine mounts for an LS and adapter plate for the B7 manual trans, you are going to have demand!

Won’t work with 02X, 01E or any older transmissions. The front diff is too far back, engine would sit basically in the front bumper: BF46E9F7-AA82-4B3B-B1F0-10A7813B6A8E.png

**canadianA4B7** · 03-20-2021 04:48 AM

So I noticed a few things in your photos. The mock up block looks to be the traditional LS/LM/LQ style bolt pattern and your referencing using an LS4 engine. These have 2 different style bolt patterns the traditional fits the 4L60/4L80 bolts style where the LS4 has what’s known as a V6/transverse transmission mounting. Hope you caught that b4 printing anything.

The newer style transmission with axles forward 150 mm will fit but the tunnel requires widening which will cause peddles to be moved left say 2” as the trans is about 4” wider. Which lead me to contacting these guys as this unit will fit with a 1” adapter plate. Is and can be had in full sequential straight cut or helical gears from what I was told.

I’ll also add the factory rear driveshaft will be a weak link as the torq (depending on camshaft id stay with a LS7 211/230 121LSA) applied at such lower part of its curve. I wouldn’t trust any of the B7 axles or driveshafts. Nor will the factory rear diff handle the torque. Find an older b5 or S2 rear end for better piece of mind. Just make sure is 4.11 not 3.889 as both come in similar cases.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-20-2021 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by canadianA4B7

So I noticed a few things in your photos. The mock up block looks to be the traditional LS/LM/LQ style bolt pattern and your referencing using an LS4 engine. These have 2 different style bolt patterns the traditional fits the 4L60/4L80 bolts style where the LS4 has what’s known as a V6/transverse transmission mounting. Hope you caught that b4 printing anything.

The newer style transmission with axles forward 150 mm will fit but the tunnel requires widening which will cause peddles to be moved left say 2” as the trans is about 4” wider. Which lead me to contacting these guys as this unit will fit with a 1” adapter plate. Is and can be had in full sequential straight cut or helical gears from what I was told.

I’ll also add the factory rear driveshaft will be a weak link as the torq (depending on camshaft id stay with a LS7 211/230 121LSA) applied at such lower part of its curve. I wouldn’t trust any of the B7 axles or driveshafts. Nor will the factory rear diff handle the torque. Find an older b5 or S2 rear end for better piece of mind. Just make sure is 4.11 not 3.889 as both come in similar cases.

Yeah no one makes a LS4 mock-up block. Physically the block is very very similar. The mock up block was for making motor mounts and piece of mind really. I put both sets of bell housing holes in my adapter in case I ever want to use a traditional LS block. Tunnel has already been widened / hammered out. Don’t know what the heck you’re talking about regarding the pedals. The shift linkage arms are all that has to be modified, just need shortened. Not sure why you are suggesting buying a $4000+ transmission when this is a budget swap...

Funny you mention the rear diff, suggesting to use a B5 S4, when the guys at Malaka motorsports are using a B6 rear diff because the B5 was too weak for their turbo VR6 B5 S4. https://youtu.be/iKxwhMAq7S4

This is new territory, I’m sure I’ll find something I didn’t plan on upgrading, break on me. Please keep “suggestions” like this to yourself.

**canadianA4B7** · 03-20-2021 07:16 AM

B6 sorry typo yes I just put a b6 rear diff in mine. So yes correct b6 not b5. Only suggesting as I went down all of this info long ago. Only to find out driveshafts are extremely weak for a V8. Happy to see this going on. Just realistic on it being cheap.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-22-2021 06:12 AM

Transmission cross member bent and holes drilled. First time fabricating something like this. Need to gusset and reinforce it this week. Will be solid mounted for now, might remake later with rubber bushings.
9D423DE3-94A5-4497-A50F-394801CB094B.jpg

Bolted transmission to engine with adapter plate. Need to make some stepped & threaded dowels to fully bolt together. Also need to clearance starter mounting bracket. It looks like B8 starter will fit in OEM location on transmission and clear block with some massaging.

The B8 transmission is a huge compared to an 02X and leaves no room for the exhaust. Will need to cutout and reshape passenger side transmission tunnel for 4” downpipe next.
2C33BD0E-AB65-480A-9021-220280A0A6AE.jpg

**kippdipp4323** · 03-25-2021 06:55 PM

23110783-FC24-4061-9A4B-75B7816470FA.jpg

Got the starter and block clearanced and mounted. Will be tight by the crank sensor but can make it work. Plans have changed (moving) so I have a month and a half to try to get this on the road so going NA for now. Lots of parts arriving next week like camshaft 😁 transmission tunnel cleared out and sheet metal bent up. Have to weld in the sheet metal this week.

**FatMongo** · 03-26-2021 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

23110783-FC24-4061-9A4B-75B7816470FA.jpg

Got the starter and block clearanced and mounted. Will be tight by the crank sensor but can make it work. Plans have changed (moving) so I have a month and a half to try to get this on the road so going NA for now. Lots of parts arriving next week like camshaft 😁 transmission tunnel cleared out and sheet metal bent up. Have to weld in the sheet metal this week.

Wow.

You're a maniac - I cant imagine doing this on jackstands in the middle of a move.

Where are you moving to?

**Cyrik** · 03-26-2021 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

Plans have changed (moving) so I have a month and a half to try to get this on the road so going NA for now.

Godspeed to you sir, you get this thing running and driving down the street by the beginning of May (in 6 weeks) and I'll shoot my old 2 liter engine block.

**kippdipp4323** · 03-26-2021 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by FatMongo

Wow.

You're a maniac - I cant imagine doing this on jackstands in the middle of a move.

Where are you moving to?

Just out in countryside in same town. Building a house with a 24x30 garage and 10’ ceilings, installing a two post lift 😎

**kippdipp4323** · 03-27-2021 06:09 PM

Got a lot done today... Audi accessory brackets all welded and fitted to the LS4. Still need to paint them and clean engine etc. Sorting out serpentine routing and where I can mount a tensioner. Transmission tunnel buttoned up. Just need to paint tomorrow. Carpet back in, fits decently with a little less passenger leg room but it’s for a good cause 😅 seat can still be advanced all the way forward. Never removed carpet in an Audi but let me tell that I don’t ever want to do it again.

image.jpg

Still left to do: water pump and plumbing, installing cam and Displacement on Demand delete, welding intake manifold elbow, install throttle body plus intake plumbing, reinforcing subframe and paint it, shorten shift linkage. Also have to change out rear diff (currently has a 4.35?). The 0B2 is 4.11 so I found a used 4.11 out of a B6 that should swap right in. Machining crank adapter, and flywheel next week. Then I can put actual motor and transmission in the car, reinstall subframe and the works then measure for axles and drive shaft length, then onto wiring the Holley Terminator!

Just a little left to do 😂

**kippdipp4323** · 03-27-2021 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cyrik

Godspeed to you sir, you get this thing running and driving down the street by the beginning of May (in 6 weeks) and I'll shoot my old 2 liter engine block.

Lol thank you, I’ll post a YouTube video on first start and test drive.

**Ewcmr2** · 03-31-2021 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

Just out in countryside in same town. Building a house with a 24x30 garage and 10’ ceilings, installing a two post lift 😎

Go with 12’ ceilings for two post lift, unless you already sourced a shorty lift.

**kippdipp4323** · 04-04-2021 07:54 PM

Haven’t worked on car too much this past week. Finalizing house plans, quotes and getting permits took longer than expected.

Updates I do have: Flywheel and crank adapter had to be redesigned, luckily machine work didn’t start yet. Adapter plate also had to be reworked for mistakes associated with the crank adapter redesign. I basically got some bad info on spacing from what I thought was reliable... don’t want to go into it. Got the Audi accessories mounted to the LS4 over weekend, think I have belt routing figured out. Found a belt that fits. Now to take the brackets off to paint. Transmission cross member tacked up, need to burn in gussets hopefully tomorrow afternoon then paint. Ordered some fittings for electric water pump. Next week I hope to start tearing LS4 apart for cam swap and valve train upgrades.

FA6A6665-D893-4201-B0C3-1B98CA2E25E6.jpg

**kippdipp4323** · 04-12-2021 08:04 PM

5EFF35E9-B161-4763-B731-4EBD5317662F.jpg

Alright updates I have: accessory brackets painted, subframe gussets welded, painted. Transmission crossmember, gussets welded painted. Single mass flywheel machined, test fitted and she’s all good 😁 my dad is an amazing tool maker and a bit of a comedian, check out the logo he came up with 😅 using a factory twin disc clutch from a euro 3.0 TDI. Got the radiator plumbing mapped out and fittings on order.

Attachment 227720

Tore the heads off the motor for valve spring upgrade + displace on demand delete and just general inspection / cleaning. Timing chain was off a tooth, this motor has the tensioner design which apparently GM couldn’t figure out either... swapping to the early LS2 style “damper” timing guide, replacing chain. Also, cylinder 1 looks like it sucked in some plastic or something. Removed the exhaust valve and going to blast the crud off and lap it tomorrow. Hopefully engine will be back together tomorrow afternoon then in car later this week!

Don’t know what’s going on with photo attachments but I’ll attach the rest later.

**kippdipp4323** · 05-12-2021 05:26 PM

Well things are taking much longer than I expected but the motor is in the car as of tonight.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COyugcFB...=17owvbwtvnf3j
https://www.instagram.com/p/COggyrah...=1358fd9b1tdia

**StylinS-line** · 05-13-2021 11:16 AM

Can you post pics ? Or a link other than Instagram gram ? I’m old and don’t have it ...lmao

**kippdipp4323** · 05-13-2021 06:07 PM

Image upload on here is kind of a pain sorry

**87vr6** · 05-13-2021 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

Image upload on here is kind of a pain sorry

It's not if you use any number of image hosting sites, Flikr being the long standing #1.

**Charles.waite** · 05-13-2021 06:47 PM

Imgur works decently too. But yea Tapatalk image upload is totally broken for me.

**kippdipp4323** · 05-14-2021 07:09 AM

Do you have a suggestion for embedded photos? Flickr doesn’t seem to work on here unless I’m missing something

**iansane** · 05-14-2021 08:01 AM

Man, I've been saying the 0b4/0b2 trans would be the LS ticket for a while! I'm glad someone is trying it! Interesting to see the LS4. Good luck, man.

**kippdipp4323** · 05-19-2021 02:39 PM

C6CA701E-22CB-46F1-A188-A23D2574C700.jpeg

Going with a different direction on intake. Parts arrived today and clears good nicely. If I get the coolant plumbing wrapped up tomorrow and finish wiring I may fire this thing up soon!

**apatchin** · 05-23-2021 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by kippdipp4323

Do you have a suggestion for embedded photos? Flickr doesn’t seem to work on here unless I’m missing something

imgbb.com

**kippdipp4323** · 05-31-2021 02:57 PM

Started her up today, only have downpipes right now and tune is rough. I’m still new to tuning and have a lot of learn. Coolant plumbing isn’t hooked up yet either. Axles will be here next week and drive shaft should follow shortly.