K04/Hybrid & Big Turbo Support Group

[19birel]

Is there any interest in a bolt-on TD05H-R Turbo kit specific to the B8 A4?

Here is our B7 kit for example: https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-td05h-...7-a4-2-0t.html

Would a kit like that be compatible with the stock fueling system in the B8 and would you guys be offering a tune to accompany it for those who prefer not to delve down the HPtuners route?

This sounds very intriguing, but fueling and tuning seem to be the biggest hurdles on these cars when trying to run anything past a K04 setup on this platform. It would be nice if there was, for lack of better phrasing, a "plug 'n play" option available

[Jake@JHM]

Not to be argumentative but when I originally contacted you about the ko4r 2 years ago you said the tune was almost ready for the b8. After reading some of the threads here decided it was a safer bet going with the k04-0064 and IE tune. Not saying there is anything wrong with your turbo it appears to be a good build and I was seriously considering it, but it is 2 years later and you are stating now you just started the tune? And why not share times? We have all shared times no matter how embarrassingly slow they are.

The whole point of these k04 threads was to share info so we could all learn from each other and get faster, not to argue over how much better one is over the other. You are right there is no comparison between the k04 and a big turbo at a stop light I will be 50 yards down the road b4 the big turbo starts to spool. Until some one comes up with a better solution for tuning med 17.1 the big turbo is a non starter for me also I hate lag. There is a reason Gonzo doesn't offer a med 17.1 tune. We are slowly (painfully slowly) figuring it out but it is not as easy as med 7 or simos and most of us don't have the time to dedicate to learning win ols, plus trying to find a med17.1 fr is like finding a hens tooth.

Not argumentative at all, very fair question.

We had started tuning the B8 A4 a couple of years ago, but at that time the only tuning server we had was leased through APR and we weren't granted permission to flash JHM Software for the B8 A4. Basically we were only able to provide software for platforms that weren't in direct competition with APRs current markets, so we had to drop the program (among a few other reasons).

Now we have another server (Power Connect) that is ours, and we can flash what we want so we started tuning the B8 A4 again.

Yes these newer ECUs are much more complicated.

We will share results soon. We always have once we have completed a project.

[Jake@JHM]

Would a kit like that be compatible with the stock fueling system in the B8 and would you guys be offering a tune to accompany it for those who prefer not to delve down the HPtuners route?

This sounds very intriguing, but fueling and tuning seem to be the biggest hurdles on these cars when trying to run anything past a K04 setup on this platform. It would be nice if there was, for lack of better phrasing, a "plug 'n play" option available

So far we haven't run into any real fueling issues with the K04-R. Any bump we ran into we were able to address in software. Hard to say with the TD05H-R though for sure, until we start tuning it.

We have though encountered an issue with the fuel tank design. We will go into depth about this when our software is released. Basically, when we would launch the car with a 1/4 tank of fuel there was enough Gs to pull all the fuel to the bank of the tank that is elevated allowing the fuel pump basket to dry up. The solution to this would be a custom gas tank or just keep more fuel in the tank.

[Traptalk]

So far we haven't run into any real fueling issues with the K04-R. Any bump we ran into we were able to address in software. Hard to say with the TD05H-R though for sure, until we start tuning it.

We have though encountered an issue with the fuel tank design. We will go into depth about this when our software is released. Basically, when we would launch the car with a 1/4 tank of fuel there was enough Gs to pull all the fuel to the bank of the tank that is elevated allowing the fuel pump basket to dry up. The solution to this would be a custom gas tank or just keep more fuel in the tank.

This seems to be a common oversight in many platforms and cars.

Even the new rs3’s faced some level of problems from oem pump placement

[19birel]

So far we haven't run into any real fueling issues with the K04-R. Any bump we ran into we were able to address in software. Hard to say with the TD05H-R though for sure, until we start tuning it.

We have though encountered an issue with the fuel tank design. We will go into depth about this when our software is released. Basically, when we would launch the car with a 1/4 tank of fuel there was enough Gs to pull all the fuel to the bank of the tank that is elevated allowing the fuel pump basket to dry up. The solution to this would be a custom gas tank or just keep more fuel in the tank.

I'll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for news on the TD05H-R

In terms of the K04-R, any timeline on when the numbers will start rolling out?

[Nano909]

Our K04-R went 12.3 with APR software NOT an allroad.. a few years ago..

We will announce our performance results as we get closer to release. We have also gone faster with a 6MT K04-R with its terrible gear ratio than most people have with an 8Speed Tip with K04 variants, which speaks for itself. At least for those who understand gearing and how it relates.

How is the TD05H-R proven? The TD05H-R has gone 12.1 on the B7 A4 6MT. Not that is comparable to the B8, though as the B7 doesn't make as much power as a B8.

So did this have full interior, and what tires and fuel was used? Also are you using a random employee driver or some badass pro driver?

[Spawne32]

I'll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for news on the TD05H-R

In terms of the K04-R, any timeline on when the numbers will start rolling out?

It's been 2 years, so I am going to assume they will have some numbers on how much power it makes and what it runs sometime within the next 2-4 years.

[19birel]

It's been 2 years, so I am going to assume they will have some numbers on how much power it makes and what it runs sometime within the next 2-4 years.

Haha hey that would be just long enough down the road to call replacing my turbo "preventative maintenance"

[Jake@JHM]

So did this have full interior, and what tires and fuel was used? Also are you using a random employee driver or some badass pro driver?

From what I remember it was a full weight avant with all seasons. This was a customer car. We had nothing to do with this run.

All of the official times that we announce that we ran ourselves are always full interior and street tires.

[Spawne32]

From what I remember it was a full weight avant with all seasons. This was a customer car. We had nothing to do with this run.

All of the official times that we announce that we ran ourselves are always full interior and street tires.

So you aren't going to tell us what your K04-R car is running after 2 years?

[Nano909]

From what I remember it was a full weight avant with all seasons. This was a customer car. We had nothing to do with this run.

All of the official times that we announce that we ran ourselves are always full interior and street tires.

I feel like you're beating around the bush for some reason.

[Jake@JHM]

So you aren't going to tell us what your K04-R car is running after 2 years?

2 years? go back and read.

[Jake@JHM]

I feel like you're beating around the bush for some reason.

How? I have already said multiple times that we will be posting OUR runs when we get closer to release.

The run I mentioned was one that was posted publicly that appears everyone forgot about.

[Spawne32]

So that about settles the argument that the ebay/homebrew turbo is the better option at this time. We have proven documented results.

[Traptalk]

Yup - I'm the OBDeleven guy! Seriously considering going to VCDS - it'll cost money but will save me headache and time.

3rd Gear Pull. I captured most of the parameters you suggested - still need to track down a few. Sample rate is terrible due to ODBeleven limitations. I trimmed and converted the data in excel. Units should be good now.
https://datazap.me/u/snice/3rd-gear-...6-17-20&solo=6

I'm still researching and learning but it seems I may have an N75 or wastegate issue. Supposedly my wastegate is set to 6-7psi (according to CTS). I'm trying to figure out how to test. I should have done it before installation. The GIAC file I am currently running has a wastegate spec of 6-8psi.. GIAC will also give me files with 4psi and 11psi specs. Interestingly, GIAC mentioned that they see a lot of overboosting with the CTS turbos. Supposedly a good remedy is the Forge wastegate. This seems to be in line with you who have build your turbos.

Well you are definitely over boosting a good amount. Seems to hold it all the way to redline which is impressive. Seems like ecu is trying to supply fuel and lambda keeps getting richer. Seems like still getting a fair bit of timing advance as well

Not sure I would change anything lol I bet it’s fun and torquey to drive and you’re not misfiring up top

Can try the other files if you want and see which feels best. That 4psi file probably peaks at 16-18psi just off of the n75 capabilities

Maybe try each file and post the logs

What seems the weirdest to me is the huge dip in absolute load as soon as the over boost starts. Almost makes me think turbo being over spun to overcome some losses somewhere

Makes me think it’s post map sensor since the map sensor shows a steady boost read but it’s almost like the ecu thinks it’s not enough boost and your load is down

I’d check for leaks and n75 line pinches as well

[Traptalk]

So that about settles the argument that the ebay/homebrew turbo is the better option at this time. We have proven documented results.

Ok ok enough of the pissing contests

Let’s stay focused here and not lose sight.

Funny how all these tuning companies seemingly turned their back on the b8 but now that it seems that select private owners care about progressing the platform there is now speculation of e85 kits (for limited application) and new turbo kits

I wish I could stand behind a company and know they never gave up on us and were as devoted as we were but the entire ebay thread came about because of it and the spotty unproven turbo options with big claims and bad QC

The way the k04-r thread plays out in the b7 thread is semi depressing. Years of hype followed by wastegate setting issues and years of people never feeling satisfied with their purchase

All we want is companies that back their claims and their products and actually drive progression

We understand this is a small and limited sector for revenue tho

There are gen 1 ea888’s going full tilt on efr7163’s with a stock head and stock bottom end for years now there is no reason we need to be stuck with a k04 as the performance ceiling

I often told people the jhm manifold paired with a t25 efr is probably the easiest big turbo path

DV is integrated in the housing which saves plumbing, can go internally gated. All you’d really need as 90 degree elbow on the inlet to keep stock intake location, a V-band flange downpipe, a charge pipe, and a way to vent the pcv back into the intake

[Jake@JHM]

So that about settles the argument that the ebay/homebrew turbo is the better option at this time. We have proven documented results.

Whatever helps you sleep an night




Yes, that's back in 2017. OTS APR. Not an allroad.

[Traptalk]

Whatever helps you sleep an night




Yes, that's back in 2017. OTS APR. Not an allroad.

We should be talking about getting this platform into the 11’s instead of bickering over mid 12 second passed from years ago

[Jake@JHM]

We should be talking about getting this platform into the 11’s instead of bickering over mid 12 second passed from years ago

Our goal is 11s on K04-R full weight street tires.

[Traptalk]

Our goal is 11s on K04-R full weight street tires.

Our goal is to be able to have more than a variety of k04s to chose from after 10+ years of available research & development time


At this point you should just scrap the k04-r and put all efforts into the td05 that doesn’t cost $3000

These cars are dwindling in value and turbo kit that’s worth as much as the car doesn’t make much sense

[Jake@JHM]

Our goal is to be able to have more than a variety of k04s to chose from after 10+ years of available research & development time


At this point you should just scrap the k04-r and put all efforts into the td05 that doesn’t cost $3000

These cars are dwindling in value and turbo kit that’s worth as much as the car doesn’t make much sense

That's the nature of the beast my friend. We still sell a ton of RS6-RS Turbos for the 2.7T and the labor for installation alone costs more than the car most of the time.

[EvolutionArmory]

So that about settles the argument that the ebay/homebrew turbo is the better option at this time. We have proven documented results.

You have proven documented results that your turbo and tune runs as good as APR V1 did in 2014 is what I think you meant to say

And if you look back when JHM first introduced the K04R you would learn that it was just going to be a turbo option with no real plans on doing software for it. As you found out the hard and expensive way, tuning your ECU isn’t exactly easy.

You guys like to blame me for threads going sideways but really, it’s your inability to admit your limitations and admit that you don’t really know what you’re doing. You’re arguing with a company that does this for a living and has made some pretty decent passes on pretty decent hardware all the while you guys are making every possible mistake you can. And some how in your twisted logic you think what you’re doing is better. JHM isn’t perfect and they have all the same problems any medium sized business can have.

It’s easy to give them a hard time when you slapped together a turbo and got some guy in his garage to tune it. If you tried to do this for a living you’d probably fall on your faces. But you’re just some guy who built 1 turbo and got some other guy who doesn’t know how to tune it or doesn’t have the right equipment to do so if he does know how.

The fact is, every car in this subforum running a K04R and APR V2 or 3 runs better than your eBay turbo and HP Tuner tune.

Sorry to be blunt but you kinda need to hear this.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Traptalk]

That's the nature of the beast my friend. We still sell a ton of RS6-RS Turbos for the 2.7T and the labor for installation alone costs more than the car most of the time.

Fair enough

I’m telling you tho, what this community needs and has been begging for is a real BT solution with a proven and solid tune with repeatable results

CTS dropped the ball by creating a turbo kit and then not providing any avenues for software support

Custom tuning for us is extremely limited, even more so to do remotely

It appears maestro is missing maps for the b8 and Chris tapp is notoriously hard to get support from and the other platform, hp tuners, is still in beta for the med17.1


At the same time the hp/$ Has to seem reasonable for whatever gain can be accomplished over a k04 upgrade

[Perry01]

So, I worked with my tuner today logging and emailing data back and forth and got some adjustments made for high altitude. I only gained 4 g/s of airflow to 267 g/s but spooling is quicker and boost delivery is very smooth. N75 values max out now at 92.5% instead of 84% which has me close to requested boost. I may get one more revision to adjust for erratic timing advance in the mid-range but I think this is as good as it’s going to get on 91 octane and 5,000’ elevation.

Next up is experimenting with E85. What, if any, gains in MAF values will I see using an E40 blend? (flex fuel CPMA)

[Spawne32]

You have proven documented results that your turbo and tune runs as good as APR V1 did in 2014 is what I think you meant to say

And if you look back when JHM first introduced the K04R you would learn that it was just going to be a turbo option with no real plans on doing software for it. As you found out the hard and expensive way, tuning your ECU isn’t exactly easy.

You guys like to blame me for threads going sideways but really, it’s your inability to admit your limitations and admit that you don’t really know what you’re doing. You’re arguing with a company that does this for a living and has made some pretty decent passes on pretty decent hardware all the while you guys are making every possible mistake you can. And some how in your twisted logic you think what you’re doing is better. JHM isn’t perfect and they have all the same problems any medium sized business can have.

It’s easy to give them a hard time when you slapped together a turbo and got some guy in his garage to tune it. If you tried to do this for a living you’d probably fall on your faces. But you’re just some guy who built 1 turbo and got some other guy who doesn’t know how to tune it or doesn’t have the right equipment to do so if he does know how.

The fact is, every car in this subforum running a K04R and APR V2 or 3 runs better than your eBay turbo and HP Tuner tune.

Sorry to be blunt but you kinda need to hear this.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Yet again, this thread goes sideways because for some reason, people won't stop being shills for sponsored companies or stop shitting on the ebay turbo. We just spent the past few hours arguing with someone who represents a company who refuses to give any sort of information on a product that he is claiming is superior, which has already been proven otherwise by his own customers because the only data they have is on a platform that pre-dates our cars. And then here you come running to the rescue with more B7 bullshit. Why am I not surprised. This forum is nothing but trash at this point. It's a bunch of kids arguing to get to the top of a rat race with cars that are worth $5000. The whole point of the original ebay turbo thread was to bring a cheaper option to anyone who wanted it, instead people just attacked it endlessly.

[Traptalk]

So, I worked with my tuner today logging and emailing data back and forth and got some adjustments made for high altitude. I only gained 4 g/s of airflow to 267 g/s but spooling is quicker and boost delivery is very smooth. N75 values max out now at 92.5% instead of 84% which has me close to requested boost. I may get one more revision to adjust for erratic timing advance in the mid-range but I think this is as good as it’s going to get on 91 octane and 5,000’ elevation.

Next up is experimenting with E85. What, if any, gains in MAF values will I see using an E40 blend? (flex fuel CPMA)

With a real big turbo ethanol usually allows you turn up the boost more, but for us we are already maxing out the k04 in terms of boost and air flow so I think all there is to gain is timing advance

My air mass is actually higher on apr 93 than it is on apr 100 octane

[Perry01]

With a real big turbo ethanol usually allows you turn up the boost more, but for us we are already maxing out the k04 in terms of boost and air flow so I think all there is to gain is timing advance

My air mass is actually higher on apr 93 than it is on apr 100 octane

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case. I have 10.5° of advance now with 91 octane. I wonder if I can get 16° of timing advance on an E40 blend?

[Traptalk]

To be clear this thread was not created to be a marketing platform for theoretical products or already existing products nor was it created to bash products on the market.

This is a place to get and give support and acquire as much data as we can.


EA you’ve spoken pretty openly about how your jhm wastegate caused you issues and is the sole reason for all the experience you have with wastegate tuning. You’ve also spoken about how running a BAD tune is a miserable experience, regardless of whose tune it is.

Again Shane’s eBay turbo seems to be the fastest pre facelift b8 k04 time recorded of all the k04 b8’s

So please don’t knock the project or the mission here

My “ebay k04” with ots software is seemingly out performing my loba hybrid with various custom tunes so I think it’s far from a flop even if it doesn’t flow the 40 lb/min I had my heart set on

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case. I have 10.5° of advance now with 91 octane. I wonder if I can get 16° of timing advance on an E40 blend?

If I can see 20 degrees with some meth and e15 in the tank I think you may see even more than 16

[Spawne32]

I'd also like to point out that I have made this clear dozens of freaking times, when making comparisons, please for the love of god post what fuel you are using. The differences, as many are finding out now, are night and day between pump gas, E85/Blend, and methanol.

[Spawne32]

My “ebay k04” with ots software is seemingly out performing my loba hybrid with various custom tunes so I think it’s far from a flop even if it doesn’t flow the 40 lb/min I had my heart set on

You made the right choice going to APR. It worked for your setup. Like I told ya, there is a big difference between "tuners" or tooners as I call them, and "engineers". APR employs software engineers to develop their tunes, with hundreds of hours of development time on both street and dyno. Your first custom tune I can almost guarantee was a bunch of guys applying logic from a B7 to your car and trying to just copy over settings. When it went wrong, they just try to blame it on your car itself needing work, and sure enough, they were willing to sell you that work too.

[Nano909]

Yet again, this thread goes sideways because for some reason, people won't stop being shills for sponsored companies or stop shitting on the ebay turbo. We just spent the past few hours arguing with someone who represents a company who refuses to give any sort of information on a product that he is claiming is superior, which has already been proven otherwise by his own customers because the only data they have is on a platform that pre-dates our cars. And then here you come running to the rescue with more B7 bullshit. Why am I not surprised. This forum is nothing but trash at this point. It's a bunch of kids arguing to get to the top of a rat race with cars that are worth $5000. The whole point of the original ebay turbo thread was to bring a cheaper option to anyone who wanted it, instead people just attacked it endlessly.

I'm not surprised either. He thinks whatever he says has some ground but we all know anything he says is BS and you'd have to be a fool to listen to him 🤣🤣🤣

[Perry01]

I'm not surprised either. He thinks whatever he says has some ground but we all know anything he says is BS and you'd have to be a fool to listen to him 🤣🤣🤣

And of what value does that have to do with this discussion? Let’s stay on topic.....

To everyone: If you have no questions regarding your Turbo’s performance or input to add please refrain from posting banter

[Jake@JHM]

I apologize for helping derail the thread. As to my original question about the interest of a TD05H-R, if we proceed I will create it's own thread.

[Nano909]

Whatever helps you sleep an night




Yes, that's back in 2017. OTS APR. Not an allroad.

I don't think that slip proves much man. Got a link to the OP it was on to verify?

[Nano909]

And of what value does that have to do with this discussion? Let’s stay on topic.....

To everyone: If you have no questions regarding your Turbo’s performance or input to add please refrain from posting banter

So you didn't respond to Mr B7's last post with that nonsense but you did to me? 🤔

[Perry01]

So you didn't respond to Mr B7's last post with that nonsense but you did to me? 🤔

Your post was just the last one in string of off-topic posts. I didn’t intend to single you out...

[Jake@JHM]

I don't think that slip proves much man. Got a link to the OP it was on to verify?

User ColdCarnival

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post12809074

About Coldcarnival
Location::
Fairfax,VA
Daily Driver::
2013 B8.5 A4 premium+/sport/FF
Daily Driver's Modifications::
APR Carbonio intake/ Jhm K04R/ 034 HFC /CTS turbo downpipe/ APR FMIC/ RS style honeycomb grill/ Akebono Rotors/ Akebono ceramic pads/ 19in S4 peelers/contisportcontact3 255/35/19

[Nano909]

Your post was just the last one in string of off-topic posts. I didn’t intend to single you out...

So we agree that EA being here is a catalyst for a derailed thread anytime he posts? We definitely know what the problem is.

[Traptalk]

User ColdCarnival

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post12809074

About Coldcarnival
Location::
Fairfax,VA
Daily Driver::
2013 B8.5 A4 premium+/sport/FF
Daily Driver's Modifications::
APR Carbonio intake/ Jhm K04R/ 034 HFC /CTS turbo downpipe/ APR FMIC/ RS style honeycomb grill/ Akebono Rotors/ Akebono ceramic pads/ 19in S4 peelers/contisportcontact3 255/35/19

Damn cpma/mb are always faster than us caeb guys

[Nano909]

User ColdCarnival

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post12809074

About Coldcarnival
Location::
Fairfax,VA
Daily Driver::
2013 B8.5 A4 premium+/sport/FF
Daily Driver's Modifications::
APR Carbonio intake/ Jhm K04R/ 034 HFC /CTS turbo downpipe/ APR FMIC/ RS style honeycomb grill/ Akebono Rotors/ Akebono ceramic pads/ 19in S4 peelers/contisportcontact3 255/35/19

Okay so he was on E? Makes sense. Any runs with the user on 91/93 to better compare?