Parasitic Battery Loss | VCDS Logs Included

[MyDimeIsUp]

So if you've seen my post history, its like my allroad got shot in the leg and is slowly loosing blood. I can't tell you why everything is happening at once. Anyway, for the past 3 days I've been experiencing battery loss over night. My battery charges up to about 40% - 50% according to MMI (Both before I started having parasitic battery loss and now). I've noticed some of my reedings are off, specifically channel 19 is missing all data. What does this mean?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qKCZrAPmT8TWwzM67

[MyDimeIsUp]

EDIT: These are the new readings with the car running and driving about 6 minutes. I've noticed on the MMI, my battery would usually stay around 40%, maybe 50%. Now its going up to 70% and maybe further (if I let the car run longer). Problem with the energy management system?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jZE2ohuYo8P1NDmu7

[Smac770]

You have no DTCs from address 0x19, CAN Gateway?
Check that the two-pin plug is plugged into the J367 BDM (the brick on the terminal connected to the negative battery post).
Pull the history data for address 0x19 (in VCDS, that's applications -> history data) to see what it has to say about the energy management history.

How old is that battery and is it AGM or standard?
Have you tried removing the battery and charging it with a standalone charger/tester unit (not a trickle charger). I have an Optima 400; I like it.

Is the car in a garage or a place where leaving the tailgate and doors open for a while unattended would not be an issue? Leave the front doors and tailgate open, manually latch them, lock the car. Come back in an hour and do a voltage measurement across every fuse in the panels at both ends of the dash and the panel in the right rear and look for something with a voltage drop that translates to a higher than desired current flow (tables can be found via google).

Legit testing would require a mA accurate DC current clamp. All electricity goes out the negative post through the J367 then to the chassis. It returns via one of two lines. See the diagram I made for another person with similar issue:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-.../#post25503270
All the fuse panels (B, C, D, F) in the car are connected to that 110A fuse. In his case, turned out to be the J525 amp. It was randomly pulling current when the car was sitting locked.

Have you pulled the bumper cover off and checked out the state of the plug for that fog light that got hit? Seems to be a lot of things all at once, the external event being that fender bender?

[MyDimeIsUp]

You have no DTCs from address 0x19, CAN Gateway?
Check that the two-pin plug is plugged into the J367 BDM (the brick on the terminal connected to the negative battery post).
Pull the history data for address 0x19 (in VCDS, that's applications -> history data) to see what it has to say about the energy management history.

How old is that battery and is it AGM or standard?
Have you tried removing the battery and charging it with a standalone charger/tester unit (not a trickle charger). I have an Optima 400; I like it.

Is the car in a garage or a place where leaving the tailgate and doors open for a while unattended would not be an issue? Leave the front doors and tailgate open, manually latch them, lock the car. Come back in an hour and do a voltage measurement across every fuse in the panels at both ends of the dash and the panel in the right rear and look for something with a voltage drop that translates to a higher than desired current flow (tables can be found via google).

Legit testing would require a mA accurate DC current clamp. All electricity goes out the negative post through the J367 then to the chassis. It returns via one of two lines. See the diagram I made for another person with similar issue:
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-.../#post25503270
All the fuse panels (B, C, D, F) in the car are connected to that 110A fuse. In his case, turned out to be the J525 amp. It was randomly pulling current when the car was sitting locked.

Have you pulled the bumper cover off and checked out the state of the plug for that fog light that got hit? Seems to be a lot of things all at once, the external event being that fender bender?

I have not pulled the bumper cover off yet. I live on a semi-small street (1 car every 10 mins). I can most likely leave all the passenger/driver (depending what side I park on) doors open and the tailgate open and watch from inside (as we live in a good neighborhood; still never take chances though). The battery actually died a day before the fender bender. All my dash lights (ABS, Parking Break, etc.) were stuck on on when I entered the car that first time it died. Maybe a clue? No 4-way flashers nor interior lights were left on. I just took a photo of the battery (what a pain in the ass). I didn't see any timestamp though. I did notice on OBDeleven that my battery serial number in Gateyway (19) - Long Code - Channel 004 was off, but the brand and part number were correct.

[Smac770]

Oh, so battery issues predating the contact event. Then it's probably not particularly relevant. I'd start by getting the battery charged back up externally or with a really long drive, should get back to 85% SoC if charged by driving.

Dead battery, and missing block 19 values. What about blocks 21, 22, 23? 18/19/20 are battery, 14/15/26 are alternator, 21/22/23 are energy management. There has to be a DTC for something.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Oh, so battery issues predating the contact event. Then it's probably not particularly relevant. I'd start by getting the battery charged back up externally or with a really long drive, should get back to 85% SoC if charged by driving.

Dead battery, and missing block 19 values. What about blocks 21, 22, 23? 18/19/20 are battery, 14/15/26 are alternator, 21/22/23 are energy management. There has to be a DTC for something.

Nope. Absoluetly nothing. The only codes I got were for energy management active for when my battery died. I just had to pickup and drop off a brother's friends and I just checked and my battery (according to MMI) has gone up to 80%. It NEVER reached this before in the past 3 months, only getting to 40%. I will check back with my other blocks in a bit.

EDIT: Here are blocks 14, 15, 16, and 21, 22, 23 with the car shut off. Not sure if you require it to be turned on. https://photos.app.goo.gl/RNGWfgib6wr4KYPs9

[Smac770]

Well, 14/15/26 (16 is only interesting in a "either it says it's bad or it says it's good" binary) are about the generator, which won't be running if the engine is not running.

It's curious that 22 shows 1 Ah for the energy throughput. Like the statistics for the battery have started over. Block 19 is still no values? CAN Gateway history data would be interesting. But I have no idea if OBDeleven can do that.

But if the battery is charging back to normal and that's "abnormal", maybe worth seeing where that goes. I'd make note of the battery voltage (you can just measure the jumper posts under the hood rather than digging down to the battery) before you call it a night and then measure it again in the morning to see if there's any change. You need to start logging trend data points to have a handle on how things are moving to guess at what/when abnormality is occurring.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Well, 14/15/26 (16 is only interesting in a "either it says it's bad or it says it's good" binary) are about the generator, which won't be running if the engine is not running.

It's curious that 22 shows 1 Ah for the energy throughput. Like the statistics for the battery have started over. Block 19 is still no values? CAN Gateway history data would be interesting. But I have no idea if OBDeleven can do that.

But if the battery is charging back to normal and that's "abnormal", maybe worth seeing where that goes. I'd make note of the battery voltage (you can just measure the jumper posts under the hood rather than digging down to the battery) before you call it a night and then measure it again in the morning to see if there's any change. You need to start logging trend data points to have a handle on how things are moving to guess at what/when abnormality is occurring.

Well that night will have to be another night since I have to buy a multimeter. Can't I just use the reading from OBDeleven? (~ 11 volts with car in Accessory; ~13.8 to 14 with engine running)

[Smac770]

11 volts is low; when I turn on ignition (and turn off climate system, mute radio, and turn off the DRLs; which I do when I know I'll be sitting a while doing VCDS stuff) and plug up the VCDS, I usually read 12.2-12.3v. But if the battery is still getting back up on charge, 11 might be expected. But 11 is low and is something that should be in plan to be corrected.

The problem with using OBD to pull the voltage from the car is now you've got the car on and the battery loaded, etc. It'll work, it's just not as isolated as using a multimeter to take readings with the car unaware. But either gets what you need done, which is a baseline of voltage readings before and after an overnight to see if something unexpected is happening within that window.

[MyDimeIsUp]

11 volts is low; when I turn on ignition (and turn off climate system, mute radio, and turn off the DRLs; which I do when I know I'll be sitting a while doing VCDS stuff) and plug up the VCDS, I usually read 12.2-12.3v. But if the battery is still getting back up on charge, 11 might be expected. But 11 is low and is something that should be in plan to be corrected.

The problem with using OBD to pull the voltage from the car is now you've got the car on and the battery loaded, etc. It'll work, it's just not as isolated as using a multimeter to take readings with the car unaware. But either gets what you need done, which is a baseline of voltage readings before and after an overnight to see if something unexpected is happening within that window.

Ok. With accessory mode on. Headlights auto (On since it is night time) and DRLs, Battery Voltage is 11.8 V, Battery Current is -33 A. With headlights off and DRLs off, Battery Voltage is 11.9 V and Battery Current is -13 A, with MMI reading battery level as 70%, going down to 60% within a minute of headlights + DRLs being actively on. Let's see what it looks like tomorrow if it even is alive by then.

[Aris3.2]

Today I changed my battery the readings i had before changing it was almost same as yours 11.8V 11.9V when car was not running.
The car died a couple times (battery was 7years old non AGM) so it was time for me to change it now that i put the new battery on with the car off it reads 12.3 12.4 with everything off on the car no radio no lights no nothing.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Today I changed my battery the readings i had before changing it was almost same as yours 11.8V 11.9V when car was not running.
The car died a couple times (battery was 7years old non AGM) so it was time for me to change it now that i put the new battery on with the car off it reads 12.3 12.4 with everything off on the car no radio no lights no nothing.

How did you know the age of your battery? I took the subwoofer, spare tire, and my jack out and couldn't find any markings on my battery.

[Aris3.2]

How did you know the age of your battery? I took the subwoofer, spare tire, and my jack out and couldn't find any markings on my battery.

I am pretty sure that 2/14 sticker there is the shelf date of the battery most likely was put there by the dealer to mark it.

This is the new one and it doesn’t have the same sticker but has engraved on the negative pole 13/20 unsure though if that indicates date of production.

[MyDimeIsUp]

I am pretty sure that 2/14 sticker there is the shelf date of the battery most likely was put there by the dealer to mark it.

This is the new one and it doesn’t have the same sticker but has engraved on the negative pole 13/20 unsure though if that indicates date of production.

Ah! No wonder I couldn't finder no sticker. This seems like the smoking gun, but lets give it until tomorrow. Why would the battery just crap out so suddenly though?

[Aris3.2]

Ah! No wonder I couldn't finder no sticker. This seems like the smoking gun, but lets give it until tomorrow. Why would the battery just crap out so suddenly though?

Batteries usually gives you a couple warnings and then die for good i tried charging mine it was good for a few days and then dead again.
Your car is a 13 model production date has to be xx/12 and the battery you have is 38/12 so you are on your original battery that came with the car that’s 2020 is almost over so that’s almost 9 years that, that battery stayed “alive”
I would say it served it’s purpose well.

[alhutch]

I am pretty sure that 2/14 sticker there is the shelf date of the battery most likely was put there by the dealer to mark it.

This is the new one and it doesn’t have the same sticker but has engraved on the negative pole 13/20 unsure though if that indicates date of production.

That is indeed the production date. 13th week of year 2020

[MyDimeIsUp]

Yup when I saw 38/12 I was like "Yup thats it". Talked with my grandfather and he said skip all the multimeter tests, no matter what that battery won't even last another Pennsylvania winter given the age. He told me sediment starts to build up on the bottom of the battery and can start to corrode the plates. I was looking for a sticker and once I saw the post about the date being stamped on the negative battery terminal, I checked it.

I'm picking up a battery from VW tomorrow for $138 including tax. Lets see how it holds up in the coming week.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Ok, I just got finished talking to person at Audi parts. I asked him if battery 000915105DH (80aH) would fit my 2013 Audi allroad since there at least 7 other batteries listed. He told me originally I should have 000915105CE (92aH). The difference is over $100, so wondering if someone can confirm if 000915105DH (80 aH) will fit in my 2013 Audi allroad. Also interestingly enough when I went back out to check my battery, all 4 sides of the battery had no labeling (Brand, Part #, etc.) It was just black except for the top of my battery which still listed nothing about that battery specifically.

[Smac770]

Your car has a specific PR code designating the battery it was built with. If the dealer is saying it's the CE battery, then you have the same PR code as I do, J0B. Which designates the group 49 (aka H8) AGM battery (92Ah, 520A DIN or 850A EN crank amps). What is your PR code on your PR codes sticker for the battery (starts with a J).

The battery you are asking about, DH, is a group 94R (aka H7) non-AGM battery (80Ah, 380A DIN crank amps). What's actually in your car? An AGM should still be fine at only 7 years.

You say there's nothing informative on top of the battery? Take a pic, be sure to remove the cover plastic so all can be seen. If it has a black case (not the top, the sides), it should be an AGM; non-AGM have a clear case so fluid level can be seen. But it'll have all kinds of stickers on it if it's the factory battery. Back to that it would be real nice to look over the history data.

There's no reason to buy the Audi OE battery, there are plenty of 92Ah group 49 AGM options out there. I went with the NAPA one as it was a lot closer and on hand. The list I had compiled at the time: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13263820 But as you see, the dealership was right with the others on price.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Your car has a specific PR code designating the battery it was built with. If the dealer is saying it's the CE battery, then you have the same PR code as I do, J0B. Which designates the group 49 (aka H8) AGM battery (92Ah, 520A DIN or 850A EN crank amps). What is your PR code on your PR codes sticker for the battery (starts with a J).

The battery you are asking about, DH, is a group 94R (aka H7) non-AGM battery (80Ah, 380A DIN crank amps). What's actually in your car? An AGM should still be fine at only 7 years.

You say there's nothing informative on top of the battery? Take a pic, be sure to remove the cover plastic so all can be seen. If it has a black case (not the top, the sides), it should be an AGM; non-AGM have a clear case so fluid level can be seen. But it'll have all kinds of stickers on it if it's the factory battery. Back to that it would be real nice to look over the history data.

There's no reason to buy the Audi OE battery, there are plenty of 92Ah group 49 AGM options out there. I went with the NAPA one as it was a lot closer and on hand. The list I had compiled at the time: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13263820 But as you see, the dealership was right with the others on price.

Smac, here are the values I read with the vehicle off this morning. Surprisingly it decided to not die overnight.

Values with car in accessory (DRLs off, Radio off): https://photos.app.goo.gl/A9E2XJhqEEmcWUkZ7
Values with car started and running after 2 minutes: https://photos.app.goo.gl/gLGFYtEEDkhavdgg6

I just really think that given the fact that the battery never went past 40% according to MMI means it was due for replacement, and given now the car is acting all weird with battery going all the way up to 70%, then dropping to 50% this morning should indicate the battery needs to be replaced.

[Smac770]

Yeah, even if you can charge up the voltage level to a reasonable state of charge, any load is fast dropping it. It seems to simply not be able to store adequate charge anymore for whatever reason. That it's stayed / been kept at a low state of charge for such an extended time, it's probably done for. At leas to the point that you might as well just replace it and start clean.

But that seemed to have already been concluded in the thread and the talk had switched to a replacement battery. There seems to be issue with what battery you actually have in the car. Along with the question about the PR code (if you have your PR codes sticker on hand) and whatever info is on the top of the battery, what part number is programmed in the adaptation value (CAN Gateway, adaptation channel 04)?

[MyDimeIsUp]

Yeah, even if you can charge up the voltage level to a reasonable state of charge, any load is fast dropping it. It seems to simply not be able to store adequate charge anymore for whatever reason. That it's stayed / been kept at a low state of charge for such an extended time, it's probably done for. At leas to the point that you might as well just replace it and start clean.

But that seemed to have already been concluded in the thread and the talk had switched to a replacement battery. There seems to be issue with what battery you actually have in the car. Along with the question about the PR code (if you have your PR codes sticker on hand) and whatever info is on the top of the battery, what part number is programmed in the adaptation value (CAN Gateway, adaptation channel 04)?

I did find the part number actually: It is the 92aH battery from Varta. Is it really worth it to put an AGM battery in here though as opposed to just getting a regular flood battery?

[Smac770]

Ok, so same battery as mine. Which was still strong coming up on 11 years. Still sits in the garage charged from time to time with my battery charger should I need it one day, as it turned out my issue was more the alternator than the battery.

The group 94R battery is a lot smaller and less capable than the group 49 battery; less so about Ah capacity and more so about cranking amps. So it's not just about AGM when talking about the PR-J0B battery (rev CE) vs the PR-J0R battery (rev DH).

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../9/915-915000/
The part numbers with revision Dx are non-AGM, the part numbers with revision Cx are AGM. The J0L battery is not in the current 000 915 105 syntax, so no idea if it's regular or AGM (seems to be AGM based on price).

8 years from an AGM; I guess it's possible with a lot of short driving or otherwise not keeping it near it's normal 85% SoC. That's still more than the regular batteries will give under optimal circumstances.

If we look at the main batteries by general physical size and their MSRP at parts.audiusa.com (they are all 175mm wide and 190mm high):

group 47 aka H5 / 242mm long
J0N/J1L, flood, 61Ah / 330A DIN, rev DE - $154

group 48 aka H6 / 278mm long
J0L, AGM?, 70Ah / 340A DIN, 8K0 rev C - $227
J2D, AGM, 68Ah / 380A DIN, rev CC - $227

group 94R aka H7 / 315mm long
J0R, flood, 80Ah / 380A DIN, rev DH - $161
J1N, AGM, 75Ah / 420A DIN, rev CD - $235

group 49 aka H8 / 353mm long
J1U, flood, 95Ah / 450A DIN, rev DK - $194
J0B, AGM, 92Ah, 520A DIN, rev CE - $249

group 95R aka H9 / 394mm long
J0Z, flood, 110Ah, 520A DIN, rev DL - $227
J0P, AGM, 105Ah, 580A DIN, rev CF - $410

You see dropping down in size but staying AGM doesn't seem to buy you a lot of discount. At least the J1U would retain a better level of CCA. But I myself would stick to the factory size/type of battery, as I already did when I replaced mine. I posted you that list of third party equivalents. You might check on the current pricing and see if any have deals or discounts going on.

But if dollars are tight, sure, the J0R will still operate. You'll probably have to use part number 4F0915105B or 8K0915105D in the adaptation (with the extra space at the end to make 11 characters total).

edit - reorganized the size information

[MyDimeIsUp]

Ok, so same battery as mine. Which was still strong coming up on 11 years. Still sits in the garage charged from time to time with my battery charger should I need it one day, as it turned out my issue was more the alternator than the battery.

The group 94R battery is a lot smaller and less capable than the group 49 battery; less so about Ah capacity and more so about cranking amps. So it's not just about AGM when talking about the PR-J0B battery (rev CE) vs the PR-J0R battery (rev DH).

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../9/915-915000/
The part numbers with revision Dx are non-AGM, the part numbers with revision Cx are AGM. The J0L battery is not in the current 000 915 105 syntax, so no idea if it's regular or AGM (seems to be AGM based on price).

8 years from an AGM; I guess it's possible with a lot of short driving or otherwise not keeping it near it's normal 85% SoC. That's still more than the regular batteries will give under optimal circumstances.

If we look at the main batteries by general physical size and their MSRP at parts.audiusa.com:

J0N/J1L, 47 (H5), flood, 61Ah / 330A DIN, rev DE - $154

J0L, 48 (H6), AGM, 70Ah / 340A DIN, 8K0 rev C - $227
J2D, 48 (H6), AGM, 68Ah / 380A DIN, rev CC - $227
J0R, 94R (H7), flood, 80Ah / 380A DIN, rev DH - $161
J1N, 94R (H7), AGM, 75Ah / 420A DIN, rev CD - $235

J1U, 49 (H8), flood, 95Ah / 450A DIN, rev DK - $194
J0B, 49 (H8), AGM, 92Ah, 520A DIN, rev CE - $249
J0Z, 95R (H9), flood, 110Ah, 520A DIN, rev DL - $227
J0P, 95R (H9), AGM, 105Ah, 580A DIN, rev CF - $410

You see dropping down in size but staying AGM doesn't seem to buy you a lot of discount. At least the J1U would retain a better level of CCA. But I myself would stick to the factory size/type of battery, as I already did when I replaced mine. I posted you that list of third party equivalents. You might check on the current pricing and see if any have deals or discounts going on.

But if dollars are tight, sure, the J0R will still operate. You'll probably have to use part number 4F0915105B or 8K0915105D in the adaptation (with the extra space at the end to make 11 characters total).

Ok, if I do (and am considering now) getting a battery from pepboys/autozone from the list you provide or another H8 Group 49 battery, what would I have to do in terms of adaptation with Gateway 19 -> Block 004?

[Smac770]

Just change some digit in the serial number value; I changed all the serial number digits so it was clear in the history data this was a different battery. If it's a ~ 92Ah 850EN AGM group 49, it's the same kind of battery as far as what the battery monitor knows.

That's the thing about AutoZone (Duralast Platinum H8 AGM) and PepBoys (Champion AGM H8), they don't qualify the Ah rating. And not surprisingly, they only supply CCA, not DIN or EN cranking numbers. But it's going to be close enough for repair work; the sample range when I was making that list was 90Ah to 95Ah.

And the Champion is cheap right now on the PepBoys website, $160: https://pepboys.com/champion-agm-bat...roduct/2071679

[MyDimeIsUp]

Just change some digit in the serial number value; I changed all the serial number digits so it was clear in the history data this was a different battery. If it's a ~ 92Ah 850EN AGM group 49, it's the same kind of battery as far as what the battery monitor knows.

That's the thing about AutoZone (Duralast Platinum H8 AGM) and PepBoys (Champion AGM H8), they don't qualify the Ah rating. And not surprisingly, they only supply CCA, not DIN or EN cranking numbers. But it's going to be close enough for repair work; the sample range when I was making that list was 90Ah to 95Ah.

And the Champion is cheap right now on the PepBoys website, $160: https://pepboys.com/champion-agm-bat...roduct/2071679

I'm getting quoted $190. Thats ok though, I'll keep you posted with what happens in the coming week.

[Smac770]

Well, the link does say it's a web special; I assume you'd have to place the order through the website and pick it up.

"Web Exclusive - 25% Off Select Batteries "

[MyDimeIsUp]

Well, the link does say it's a web special; I assume you'd have to place the order through the website and pick it up.

"Web Exclusive - 25% Off Select Batteries "

*shakes hand* dang taxes. I'm going to go ahead and buy this and I'll update the thread with what happens.

[Smac770]

That's interesting. The same battery is $20 more in Philly than Atlanta. Bring up the product page and change your zip code to 30040 and pick a store. It's only $209.99 base price here. The price out the door (with core turned in) is just under $170 here.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Well an update: I decided to not buy a battery just to see what happens. After changing the battery's serial number, I guess the car readapted itself to the battery. It has not died overnight once for me and stays around 50% when I use it the next day. When driving, the car does charge up to 100%, but if left overnight will discharge to 50% and hold. Who knows what could've been killing my battery, but let's hope it doesn't return.

Thanks everyone for all your input.

[Smac770]

50% SoC for an AGM is 12.3V. That's not a big deal. What's the actual voltage on the battery in the morning? Mine is normally 12.4v, but recently with the cold, I might see 12.3v, even 12.2v at the end of an autoscan if I'm too lazy to turn off the DRLs, and climate control and leave the door open (lights really hit the current draw).

My battery meter never moves from 100%, never has. I wonder if they finally fixed it in B8.5 to actually do something.

Did your group 19 measuring values start populating?

[Theiceman]

wait a minute .. i have a B8.5 and cant even get the battery meter to work , apparently it is because i have nav ? !!!

[Smac770]

The battery meter display is not enabled by default on the B8. You have to go into the green menu and turn it on. Which was never of any value for me as it never moves from 100%.
You can even see the % which the display would show in the measuring block 19.

[Theiceman]

The battery meter display is not enabled by default on the B8. You have to go into the green menu and turn it on. Which was never of any value for me as it never moves from 100%.
You can even see the % which the display would show in the measuring block 19.

yeah b8.5 with HDD and Nav it doesnt work, i was wondering if mydimeisup somehow got it working.

[MyDimeIsUp]

yeah b8.5 with HDD and Nav it doesnt work, i was wondering if mydimeisup somehow got it working.

I'm going to check when I go out to my car in about an hour

[MyDimeIsUp]

Channel 19 still reporting no values. Weird.

[Smac770]

The difference might be MMI vs non-MMI. Maybe it works in the CAN bus infotainment configuration, such as the Concert head unit. It does not work in my MMI 2G and it goes not work in your MMI 3G+. Don't know what Dime has in his car.

[Smac770]

That's odd about channel 19; I would be curious to how/why that is. I'd hit up the dealership and see if they have any reports of that exhibit and if it points to the J367 (the BDM on the negative battery post) or the J533 (the control module actually reporting the values).

[MyDimeIsUp]

So car died past two nights again after going over a month without dying (temperatures have been low). I figure it has to be the battery because it should start shutting some systems off if battery gets low? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

I bought the battery that Smac recommended and its all hooked up. I put a random serial number in for long adaption in channel 004. Let's see how it holds up tonight when with gusts it will go down to < 20F

Also by waiting even longer, I got the battery from $206 to $189. Not sure where the discount came from? I think they lowered the base price of the battery. Anyway I'll keep you posted,

[Theiceman]

First question. Do you have any aftermarket electronics. If so remove those first.

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