Audi b6 dsmic

[Dappa01]

Hello all though this would be nice to share. Now I recently registered on this forum however I have been all over this and other forums for years. I register with this one because in simplest terms I like it. Though this something I could share. Well from searching the many forums I know that there is a big split between dudes with side mounts vs front mount intercoolers. Well I was at that cross road for months. This was my dilemma I wanted to upgrade my intercooler but want to keep the stock b6 look so a front mount was out the question. So that’s when I started my search. I was excited when I found that there was a Euro b6 that came with a dsmic. Did my research which brought me to ¼ Scale Thread: B6 A4 Dual Intercooler Installation http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...r-Installation. I started searching for the parts to put the kit together which was easier said than done (FAILED and wasted money). After reading a bunch of threads titled dsmic vs fmic I decided to go front mount. Was not very happy but need more cooling capability because I was going to upgrade my turbo. I started researching for the best FMIC for my audi b6. Found a bunch of threads that spoke about those too. I decide to go with the ER a4 b6 sport series FMIC http://evolutionracewerks.com/node/60 which fits behind the stock bumper with little to no modification as stated by ER. However the price was high. Though about getting a cheap kit from ebay but the reviews were too mixed. I just want something good. My friend who has a b7 a4 got into an accident and his car was in another friends body shop. When there to look at it and that’s when I notice the b6 & b7 chassis is the same so I though could the intercoolers work. Once again i started to do the research. Did not find much about anyone doing that install and the one thing I found was a dude sell a setup he had on his b6 to go fmic I believe https://www.panjo.com/buy/oem-dual-i...3#&gid=1&pid=1 . So that was not very encouraging. Back to the ER site I was looking at the fmic. I had it I my shopping chart and was one click away, however could not bring myself to make the purchase (LoL). Started looking at just updated my smic but the selection was very small for the b6. Was about to buy the TyrolSport UG SMIC Intercooler for Audi B6 A4 1.8T http://www.tyrolsport.com/b6intercooler but 800 for smic couldn’t do it. I don’t know if anyone else notice that the ER FMIC is everywhere you search couldn’t escape it. I was about to buy the Apikol SMIC http://www.apikol.com/index.php/prod...2002-2005.html and my friend was like just get the front mount and get it over with. I was like hell no! Need less to say I did not get the Apikol smic. After getting pass December 2015 I was back on the search again and more determine to DSMIC. It just so happen a came across Modbargins http://www.modbargains.com/ they had a tax sale that’s when I took a look at Evolution Racewerks Side Mount Intercoolers for 2006-08 Audi A4 [B7] 2.0T AU-SMIC002 which almost the same price as the Tyrosport b6 SMIC and a 100$ less than ER (still is) plus I got 50$ off http://www.modbargains.com/Evolution...Audi-B7-A4.htm . I got them quick but had to wait almost a month to get them. Dudes at modbargin was great I called like every week for updates. Got the intercoolers in April or may 2016 they’re huge which made me a bit worried about fitment. But everything fit great. If you look at the specs you will see these intercoolers have a Whopping Total of 657ci of core volume which is 306ci more than the ER A4(B6) sport FMIC and only 3ci less than the ER A4 (B6) Competition Series FMIC.

Now ER Audi A4 B7 Intercooler installed on Audi B6

The install was not too bad it only took me about 2 days to install the intercoolers. Can be done in a few hours if u have all
u need. Attempt at your own risk.
Parts Need:

1. Evolution Racewerks Side Mount Intercoolers for 2006-08 Audi A4 [B7] 2.0T AU-SMIC002

2. AUDI A4 B7 2.0 – Lower core support bracket 8E0199521DF http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-2003-20...item3d1f40a2f6
3. Audi intercooler hose set A4 b7 2.0 turbo silicone http://www.ebay.com/itm/111331855410
4. Secondary air bracket 3D0 906 515B (optional)
5. From Autozone hose 87840 (optional)
6. B7 driver side intercooler bracket.
7. 6 inch 3/4 metal pipe
8. B7 right side intercooler shroud
If I forgot anything got tons of pictures

1. Remove bumper and rad support (DO NOT OPEN AC SYSTEM) allow AC condenser to rest in a safe position and try not to step on it.
2. Remove intercooler and mounting bracket

Comparing stock to ER intercooler



3. Install b7 bracket with mounting plate that came with intercooler

This is where my 1st issue came about’ the b7 intercooler sits at an angle. The washer tank is in the way. To solve the problem straighten the mounting arm on the driver side intercooler. This will allow the intercooler mounting arm to sit flat on the bracket. This will also solve another problem of the headlight fitting. Due to the change in angle of the arm I had to drill the holes bigger and drill a third one for proper mounting so in could secure the intercooler properly.

By straighten the arm I cause another problem the intercooler does not secure in the mount at the bottom.

Problem solved. I drilled and tap the intercooler so I could bolt a bracket to it. Found a metal (wish I had a piece of aluminum) arm bent it to the desired position. With a few nuts and bolts problem solved.

Driver side intercooler is installed

Note my intercooler to throttle hose look like this because I’m using a 70mm throttle not the stock 60. You can use your stock hose. You will need the b7 intercooler hose to connect the intercooler to the radiator support crossover tube.

Now the passenger side. Remove the secondary air pump and bracket. Try not to damage the connecting hose u will need them later. If u install the intercooler as is you will notice the AC hose is a problem. Easy fix is to flatting out the mounting arm (somewhat trial and error) which make it move away from the ac hose (just don’t damage the intercooler). Also drill the hole out bigger will need to move it a little. Bolt up and intercooler is install. Couple things to keep in mind make sure u cover up and insulate the shape edges. The intercooler kit comes with a few pads make sure you use them. Now the hose coming from the turbo became a problem later on when I install the Radiator Support Cross Tube. It was in the way. I had to use a short 90 degree that I got in this kit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Int...ZSupuZ&vxp=mtr with a 2.25” pipe n 4-6” long with part of the turbo hose from this same kit. Note picture with final revision is with the secondary air pump picture. I think the hose from the b7 kit will help too.



Now comes the fun part. I made my own secondary air pump bracket from one from a b5 1.8t I think that’s were its from, the part # is 3D0 906 515B. Like I said it’s optional. You can find the correct bracket of make your own. I cut the mount formed it the way I want and drill holes to mount it to the block. The bolts holes are already there I just had to clean the threads. The connector is long enough to reach.


Now the hoses. I reuse the original hoses. I was able to configure the short hose to fit. The long hose that comes of the air box I had to modify. That where the hose from AutoZone comes into play. The hose was ideal because one end was bigger. I used rtv to seal the hose and clamps to hold in place.


Moving on now the Radiator Support Cross Tube. After a close look I notice the only difference between the b7 and b6 is the curve on the right side.


Now being that we eliminated that accumulator that the secondary air pump took the place of , I need somewhere/ somehow to connect my blow off valve. What I did was drill a hole in the cross tube and weld the 6” 3/4 pipe to it.

I had to cut about 3” off the pipe once I figured out where I want to position my diverter valve. I use a 1.5ft long 1 inch hose with the 90 degree elbow ( part # 06B133989C) to reach my dv. The vacuum hose to the dv is long enough to reach. Now it is time to install the radiator support but you will have to make some slight modification. See picture. You will have to make cut out to clear the top of the intercoolers

The left intercooler shrout is the same one from the b6 no mod need I just used a screw that is supplied with the intercoolers. The right side one is from the Euro b6 with the dsmic but u can use one from the b7 just have to cut to fit.

Final Results

[MoparFreak69]

Stock B7 intercoolers and their direct replacements will bolt on like stock. You only need to source the hoses and passenger side mount bracket. 1 out of 10 difficulty level.

[spidermonkey]

Fantastic!!! I'm pretty keen on a DSMIC setup and was about to go to shop to get it custom made. I suspected that the B7 DSMIC would fit but wasn't willing to risk the $$$ if it didn't. In addition, I knew that the hoses / fittings / connections are different.
Thanks for sharing!!!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[rfelker]

So are you saying the b7 dsmic is a direct fit to the b6. I have both a b7 and b6 and we are upgrading the b7 to front mount. So I should be able to swap the dsmic to the b6?

[Dappa01]

So are you saying the b7 dsmic is a direct fit to the b6. I have both a b7 and b6 and we are upgrading the b7 to front mount. So I should be able to swap the dsmic to the b6?

I can't say direct fit but it really doesn't take much to make them fit.

[MoparFreak69]

So are you saying the b7 dsmic is a direct fit to the b6. I have both a b7 and b6 and we are upgrading the b7 to front mount. So I should be able to swap the dsmic to the b6?

The B7 is a facelifted B6 with different engine options. The chassis is the same. The mount bolt holes are already there on my B6

[Charles.waite]

^^ You'd also want an air shroud to direct air over the passenger side b7 DSMIC but thats not totally necessary. just makes it more efficient.

[Toronto B6]

Very interesting information. I've been running DSMICs for the better part of 10 years, but I built it from OEM components from the European (190hp) 1.8T. These are material core upgrades and if fitment issues are limited I may go this direction. Thank you for posting.

[PreciseD]

Seems like a lot of work for minimal gains, wouldn't a standard FMIC be more efficient and you can paint it black and it wouldn't be noticeable at all.....

[Axis]

Seems like a lot of work for minimal gains, wouldn't a standard FMIC be more efficient and you can paint it black and it wouldn't be noticeable at all.....

With B7 dsmic's you're close to the size of a fmic (ones that fit below the crash bar) for cheap. In my case free since I'm using the dsmic's from my B7. Imo its a perfect solution for those running an ots tune on a K03.

[Charles.waite]

Its not a minimal gain, its nearly doubling the stock SMIC capacity...

And personally, I much prefer the Stealth and OEM+ factors involved with a DSMIC conversion rather than slapping another thing in front of the radiator.

[Dappa01]

Its not a minimal gain, its nearly doubling the stock SMIC capacity...

And personally, I much prefer the Stealth and OEM+ factors involved with a DSMIC conversion rather than slapping another thing in front of the radiator.

I have to agree it's not minimal u gain about 130% more cooling surface which is good for stock ko3 and sufficient for a ko4.

[Charles.waite]

^^ yup.

Also since I daily drive a b7 I can attest that the stock DSMICS are definitely oversized for the power output. Unlike the 1.8t which basically saturated the single SMIC after a single pull in hot weather, the b7s dual ICs hold up much better to repeated abuse. Even when tuned.

It would be interesting to experiment with taking one IC out of the loop on my b7 and seeing how bad the single IC deals.

[old guy]

I would love to pick up a factory riders side SMIC to go with my TyrolSport SMIC. That would be sweet.

[PreciseD]

I have to agree it's not minimal u gain about 130% more cooling surface which is good for stock ko3 and sufficient for a ko4.

What about pressure drop? I bet the DP has increased with double the piping...

[Dappa01]

What about pressure drop? I bet the DP has increased with double the piping...

Well ur always going to have more pressure drop once u go bigger fmic or dsmic but u gain denser air with better cooling ability. Beside its almost the same amount of piping. Also with my set up with the bigger Dsmic and ko4 I only notice at times a .12bar difference between request and actual boost pressure.

[Charles.waite]

I don't think pressure drop is not as impactful a thing as people tend to think. Also you're doubling (sorta) the volume of the active IC, but you have to remember, the ecus was designed for this. That's why the helmholtz resonator is there from the factory. To simulate the displacement of a second IC. The extra piping is negligible since it's a smooth round tube. It's effect on the airflow is negligible.

[Dappa01]

I was looking at my intake temp to using a regular obd scanner and I was amazed to see how fast the dual intercoolers recover from being heat soaked. I saw temperature drop from just rolling in traffic. It was around 80 degrees today. Will take some logs on Wednesday it will get to about 87

[evo_ski]

The extra piping is negligible since it's a smooth round tube.

[G-Ride]

I smell what you're steppin in here. But..take the ER Sport FMIC for example...it fits on the B6 without having to screw around with any of this? New SAI bracket.. If you get it in anodized black which I did, you wouldn't know its there...I've had cops walk around my car and they've been none the wiser. Tiny bit of trimming on the bumper, but its minimal. The house routing is nice and short, smooth bends....I dunno. Horses for courses..

That's why the helmholtz resonator is there from the factory....

I can't say I've ever seen one on an Aus delivered B6..strange. Bit like the girly US specced front brakes

[Dappa01]

[QUOTE=G-Ride;11954959]I smell what you're steppin in here. But..take the ER Sport FMIC for example...it fits on the B6 without having to screw around with any of this? New SAI bracket.. If you get it in anodized black which I did, you wouldn't know its there...I've had cops walk around my car and they've been none the wiser. Tiny bit of trimming on the bumper, but its minimal. The house routing is nice and short, smooth bends....I dunno. Horses for courses..

Im not say smic's are better than fmic it's all a preference. It's always good to have options. They both have there benefits plus and minus. But for my car I did not want to go with a fmic set up. I was one click away from getting the ER sport fmic but just couldn't. However with the dsmic setup I don't affect the efficiency of my ac condenser or radiator cooling ability especially living in NYC with traffic everywhere.

[rfelker]

I agree with you. Plus I have a new USP bumper that I'm putting on in next year and do not want to cut that up at all. So will be going this route also. What brand red hoses are you using?

[Dappa01]

I agree with you. Plus I have a new USP bumper that I'm putting on in next year and do not want to cut that up at all. So will be going this route also. What brand red hoses are you using?

Got the red hoses off ebay the brands are GPlus and UPGR8.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A4-Passat-CC...3D380536453771

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Int...0AAOSwBLlVNxcd

[Charles.waite]

I can't say I've ever seen one on an Aus delivered B6..strange. Bit like the girly US specced front brakes

The girly OEM brakes are the BEST brakes.

[diagnosticator]

There are good technical reasons why the factory went with DSMICs for the B6 BEX and B7.

On street driven cars, the most important intercooler property is the material mass of the IC core/s, not the frontal area or core volume. More core mass is better. This is because for street cars, the IC never achieves steady state heat transfer. (When heat transferred to the outside air occurs at the same rate as heat is absorbed from the charge air by the IC core,) Instead, the IC core acts like a heat sink, where the IC core mass absorbs heat from the charge air for the short duration boost events, then the core transfers the absorbed heat to the outside air over a much longer interval between boost events. This is also why an air to water IC is functionally superior to any air to air IC.

[boy412]

I've been running the OEM DSMIC's on my B6 for a long time now. Running this additional intercooler on the passenger side makes changing your A/C receiver drier "fun". A job that should take 30 minutes turned into 3+ hours.

But otherwise I've been very pleased with them. My setup could stand a larger intercooler but I've not wanted to put any more $ into this car.

[Gberg888]

I just put a fmic on my car this weekend, aside from the trimming of the bumper, it wasn't bad at all... And you cannot tell I have one looking at the car at all! I did lose my fog-lights though... they did not do a whole lot tho, so I am not worried about that.

[Kevin C]

There are good technical reasons why the factory went with DSMICs for the B6 BEX and B7.

On street driven cars, the most important intercooler property is the material mass of the IC core/s, not the frontal area or core volume. More core mass is better. This is because for street cars, the IC never achieves steady state heat transfer. (When heat transferred to the outside air occurs at the same rate as heat is absorbed from the charge air by the IC core,) Instead, the IC core acts like a heat sink, where the IC core mass absorbs heat from the charge air for the short duration boost events, then the core transfers the absorbed heat to the outside air over a much longer interval between boost events. This is also why an air to water IC is functionally superior to any air to air IC.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Any testing, calculation or is this conjecture?

[texasboy21]

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Any testing, calculation or is this conjecture?

Its thermal inertia.

http://bellintercoolers.com/tech-sup...inology-guide/

[Kevin C]

Its thermal inertia.

http://bellintercoolers.com/tech-sup...inology-guide/

I understand the principal, but I'm curious if there any data was taken to validate the claims. What is the duration of the claimed boost event?

My job involves heat transfer and air flow and I have access to a CFD program.

It easy to calculate the thermal capacity of the IC, and compare that to the actual heat dissipated.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[Kevin C]

There are good technical reasons why the factory went with DSMICs for the B6 BEX and B7.

On street driven cars, the most important inter-cooler property is the material mass of the IC core/s, not the frontal area or core volume. More core mass is better. This is because for street cars, the IC never achieves steady state heat transfer. (When heat transferred to the outside air occurs at the same rate as heat is absorbed from the charge air by the IC core,) Instead, the IC core acts like a heat sink, where the IC core mass absorbs heat from the charge air for the short duration boost events, then the core transfers the absorbed heat to the outside air over a much longer interval between boost events. This is also why an air to water IC is functionally superior to any air to air IC.

A quick reality check: A six second run on a typical Frankenturbo will consume about 3 lbs of air. Assuming a delta T of 170°F (80°f in, 250°F out), you will have about 122 Btu's of heat added to that air. Based on Old Guy's readings, I will use an IAT of 110°F and the the temp drop across the inter-cooler is 140°F.

If the IC starts at 85°F and ends up at 110°F and it weighs 10 lbs, the mass of the unit absorbed 55 Btu's. The total energy removed in that six seconds would be about 140 Btu's. Short story, based on my assumptions about 40% of the initial charge cooling on a six second run can be attributed to thermal mass. The rest of the energy is dissipated from the unit (85 Btu's).

EDIT: I assumed the IC temp to be same as the IAT, it wont be. Therefore the energy absorbed by the mass if the inter-cooler will be less. I will run the numbers a bit later but 40% is probable pretty optimistic; more like 30%.


Rough calculations, but they should be good enough to get a basic idea of whats happening.

[diagnosticator]

Kevin, it is impossible for heat to be rejected from the IC to the outside air unless the IC core is hotter than the outside air. For this to happen, the core must first absorb heat from the charge air. When enough heat has been absorbed by the IC core to raise the core temp above ambient, then heat flows from the core to the outside air. The boost event that generated the high charge air temps is usually past by the time the IC is hotter than the outside air stream. It is also true that a hot IC core will transfer heat to cooler unboosted charge air after a high boost event has ended. Again, there is not enough time to reach steady state heat transfer and the load varies on a short time base on street driven cars. This is why the IC functions in the heat sink mode on the street. This is the situation as described by on- the- road testing by various technical authorities.

Instead of attacking my posts routinely, how about responding to threads with some original contributions, instead of arguing with me all the time? I post what I believe is accurate information not just something I imagined. In the case here, if you can't resist being argumentative, how about running your numbers before posting your arguments? For some guys, like me, this subject is just intuitive, and don't have access to the expensive technical resources you do.

Remember, when running the numbers, the results are only relevant if the model is a close match to reality.

[hightime80]

Instead of attacking my posts routinely, how about responding to threads with some original contributions, instead of arguing with me all the time? I post what I believe is accurate information not just something I imagined. In the case here, if you can't resist being argumentative, how about running your numbers before posting your arguments? For some guys, like me, this subject is just intuitive, and don't have access to the expensive technical resources you do.

Remember, when running the numbers, the results are only relevant if the model is a close match to reality.

👍👍👍
Not that I have any chips in this poker game as I basically have a stock car and my factory IC serves me just fine. However, DIAG is the man and he is like NASA smart and I will gladly take his conjectures over someone else's empirical data.

[Kevin C]

Kevin, it is impossible for heat to be rejected from the IC to the outside air unless the IC core is hotter than the outside air.

For this to happen, the core must first absorb heat from the charge air. When enough heat has been absorbed by the IC core to raise the core temp above ambient, then heat flows from the core to the outside air. The boost event that generated the high charge air temps is usually past by the time the IC is hotter than the outside air stream. It is also true that a hot IC core will transfer heat to cooler unboosted charge air after a high boost event has ended. Again, there is not enough time to reach steady state heat transfer and the load varies on a short time base on street driven cars. This is why the IC functions in the heat sink mode on the street. This is the situation as described by on- the- road testing by various technical authorities.

Instead of attacking my posts routinely, how about responding to threads with some original contributions, instead of arguing with me all the time? I post what I believe is accurate information not just something I imagined. In the case here, if you can't resist being argumentative, how about running your numbers before posting your arguments? For some guys, like me, this subject is just intuitive, and don't have access to the expensive technical resources you do.

Remember, when running the numbers, the results are only relevant if the model is a close match to reality.

You posted something that I found interesting and that I didn't think was true, so I asked how you arrived at that conclusion. Since I didn't get a decent answer, I ran the numbers. Sorry that you think that is an attack.

Personally I was surprised at how high a percentage of the heat was removed just from thermal mass. FYI, I did all of my calculations using a sheet of paper and a pen. Short story, both thermal mass and airflow are important factors and there is no reason to ignore one over the other. If you don't believe me, make a run on your car with the IC blocked and let us know the change in the IAT's.

[VAGlover]

There are good technical reasons why the factory went with DSMICs for the B6 BEX and B7.

On street driven cars, the most important intercooler property is the material mass of the IC core/s, not the frontal area or core volume. More core mass is better. This is because for street cars, the IC never achieves steady state heat transfer. (When heat transferred to the outside air occurs at the same rate as heat is absorbed from the charge air by the IC core,) Instead, the IC core acts like a heat sink, where the IC core mass absorbs heat from the charge air for the short duration boost events, then the core transfers the absorbed heat to the outside air over a much longer interval between boost events. This is also why an air to water IC is functionally superior to any air to air IC.

As far as I know, placing an intercooler in front of a radiator will lead to increased coolant temps and overall engine bay temperature. This is caused by the fmic obstructing the air from flowing directly into the radiator, not to mention the heat it picks up off the fmic. I was under the impression that a dsmic setup would be ideal for the track because of the uninhibited airflow to the radiator. would you say hat the benefit of dsmic as far as radiator flow would outweight the better instantaneous charge air cooling the fmic would provide? i'm planning on running a gt2860 at stock rod boost levels on the track next year for hpde events and some hill climb hopefully.

[G-Ride]

The girly OEM brakes are the BEST brakes.

I totally agree, but for some reason all of our A4 1.8T's come with the 312x25 setup which you guys see on the 3.0lt.

[G-Ride]

[QUOTE=Dappa01;11957317]

I smell what you're steppin in here. But..take the ER Sport FMIC for example...it fits on the B6 without having to screw around with any of this? New SAI bracket.. If you get it in anodized black which I did, you wouldn't know its there...I've had cops walk around my car and they've been none the wiser. Tiny bit of trimming on the bumper, but its minimal. The house routing is nice and short, smooth bends....I dunno. Horses for courses..

Im not say smic's are better than fmic it's all a preference. It's always good to have options. They both have there benefits plus and minus. But for my car I did not want to go with a fmic set up. I was one click away from getting the ER sport fmic but just couldn't. However with the dsmic setup I don't affect the efficiency of my ac condenser or radiator cooling ability especially living in NYC with traffic everywhere.

Dappa, I totally get where you're coming from. Did you find you needed to clear some space behind the back side of the SMIC to get a good run of flow through and out?

[Dappa01]

[QUOTE=G-Ride;11966993]

Dappa, I totally get where you're coming from. Did you find you needed to clear some space behind the back side of the SMIC to get a good run of flow through and out?

No I did not and they recover super fast. But im planning to install the B5 S4 wheel well liner with the vent to help increase air flow.

[Kevin C]

As far as I know, placing an intercooler in front of a radiator will lead to increased coolant temps and overall engine bay temperature. This is caused by the fmic obstructing the air from flowing directly into the radiator, not to mention the heat it picks up off the fmic. I was under the impression that a dsmic setup would be ideal for the track because of the uninhibited airflow to the radiator. would you say hat the benefit of dsmic as far as radiator flow would outweight the better instantaneous charge air cooling the fmic would provide? i'm planning on running a gt2860 at stock rod boost levels on the track next year for hpde events and some hill climb hopefully.

I would qualify that with under certain operating conditions, it might lead to increased engine coolant temperatures. The cooling system has a certain reserve capacity, as long as you have capacity your OK. The just about impossible to answer is how much a flow restriction in front of the radiator will cause a problem. All you can say is its not as good, but is likely to work properly ( based on a number of people running them without issue).

A single larger intercooler is likely to have less flow restriction than a similar sized dual units. Every solution is likely to have some level of compromise.

[Wdries23]

Bringing this alive again, I am getting a apikol smic for the 40% increase in volume and going the b6 passenger side dmic route. I like my fog lights and usp bumper/grills, so I think it will be similar to a fmic in #'s. Agreed?