Proper Oil Type for our RS3?

[B4YM4X]

So I've been looking to do a post "break in" oil change. I know I probably don't need to but I feel better doing it. So before anyone asks, yes I did do tons of research on it, and yes it is still very confusing. So I'm looking to see what others have found when looking for the proper oil for our cars.

So to start off my 2019 RS3 does show under the engine hood, that we should use 504 or 502 approved oil. The engine cap also "recommends" Castrol.

Now here are three links I've found through searching and on Audi's site:

1. https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/...-1.22.2018.pdf
2. https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/...19-w-etron.pdf
3. https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/...-10-1-2019.pdf

So link number 1 is the newest TSB I could find that lists all the approved 504 oil. As you can see the only oil type that is listed there is 5w30. Link 2 is the 2019 maintenance schedule for all Audi models and link 3 is the 2020 maintenance schedule.

As you can see in both the 2019 and 2020 schedules, the RS3 is listed that we should follow 504 oils on page 4. HOWEVER, on page 5 there is a difference with the recommended oil we should use for 504.

2019 - 504 00 / 507 00 Diesel Oil – Castrol EDGE® Professional® 5W30 LL03
2020 - 504 00 / 507 00 (Diesel Engines) – Castrol EDGE® Professional® 0W-30 LL03 (updated from 5W30)

I guess this could make sense, since the TSB only goes to the 2019 models. SO, if Audi did change the specs starting in 2020, we just haven't seen a new TSB for approved oil brand/models yet?

Now to make things even more confusing, if you search for oil on ECS tuning they show the 0w-30 oil for the RS3 and they do mention this is the newest revision This oil also looks to be VW/Audi branded oil. I also spoke with shopdap and they said the newest revision they see is 5w-30 and the brand/model is Mobil 1 ESP. Shopdap also told me that Audi is now using Mobil oil instead of Castrol. When I spoke with my local dealer, I remember them saying, 5w30 is what they use and that they now use Total brand oil...

Now I'm not sure if the 2020 schedule is only for 2020 models of Audi's? But this would be weird considering there are no engine differences between 2019 and 2020.

Hopefully I can hear from other people what they can make of this.

[Jekyll]

Run 5w-30 Liqui Moly and call it a day.

[TheContrarian]

Run 5w-30 Liqui Moly and call it a day.

That's what I did. Decent prices at Rock Auto. They also have the filters and o rings

[RSKYBET]

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[MistahMahk]

Run 5w-30 Liqui Moly and call it a day.

+1. I also have a 19' RS3 and run Liqui Moly 5w-30. Live in the Northeast too if that makes any difference.

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[Leonitus86]

0w-30 Redline oil. Runs 10-30 degrees cooler on engine oil temperatures and motor sounds quieter. Nuff said.

[B4YM4X]

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I'm thinking your pictured oil is a 502 approved oil?

If so, at this point, I really want to stick with 504 approved oil as per all the links I have posted up.

[B4YM4X]

0w-30 Redline oil. Runs 10-30 degrees cooler on engine oil temperatures and motor sounds quieter. Nuff said.

I know the website says this is VW 502 oil but I really think I want to stick with 504 oil as per all the newest Audi documents in my links.

Also, even though I think VW has a bigger approved list of 502 oils, the Redline isn't on the Audi TSB that I had linked in my post.

Not that I don't think this might not be fantastic oil but I don't want to give Audi any reason to deny warranty since I'll be doing all my own oil changes.

[joszer]

Been using the Mobil 1 0w-40 from Walmart. Used it for 60k miles in my Stage 2 Golf R with shit tons of track time with no issue. Got 20k miles on my RS3 now, 16k of those being tuned on E85, and it's still running well.

[B4YM4X]

Been using the Mobil 1 0w-40 from Walmart. Used it for 60k miles in my Stage 2 Golf R with shit tons of track time with no issue. Got 20k miles on my RS3 now, 16k of those being tuned on E85, and it's still running well.

It seems like the oil you are using is VW 502 oil?

I'm not saying I think our cars will any major issues with using 502 oil. But based on the newest specs I would just like to run 504 spec oil.

Just a question of whether 504 spec calls for 5w30 or 0w30 it seems based on my research...

[Bezlar]

https://www.europaparts.com/oil-chan...ttrs-2-5l.html

Ive used top tec 4200 since car was new. Bought all my oil kits here.




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[B4YM4X]

I think after looking over all the information from Audi documents, it seems pretty clear to me that Audi wants us to use 504 approved oil in our cars. And at least in the one TSB that is all 5w-30 oils.

The main thing I'm confused about is that it looks like Audi changed their recommended oil type to 0w-30. There is evidence of this in a RS5 thread as well.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...oil-type/page2

And now you can buy VW/Audi branded 0w-30 504/507 approved oils from many different places. Look at post 66 and 69 from the link above.

[Leonitus86]

I know the website says this is VW 502 oil but I really think I want to stick with 504 oil as per all the newest Audi documents in my links.

Also, even though I think VW has a bigger approved list of 502 oils, the Redline isn't on the Audi TSB that I had linked in my post.

Not that I don't think this might not be fantastic oil but I don't want to give Audi any reason to deny warranty since I'll be doing all my own oil changes.

If you don't plan on modding your car and taking it to the dealer then do as you just stated. For me I'm tuned and modded and do all my own work so my car will never go to the dealer. Redline is a fantastic oil. I've tried liquid moly and motul, castrol and others and I will say that with redline motor seems to really love it.

[Jonnylaw]

Dealer will recommend and use 504 spec/0W30. Castrol Professional Edge.

If you’re not stock and don’t care about warranty, run whatever you want.

[Potatohead_RS3]

The easiest 504 to find typically is Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, I believe it's on sale at Napa right now for about $6 a quart or so.

I think after looking over all the information from Audi documents, it seems pretty clear to me that Audi wants us to use 504 approved oil in our cars. And at least in the one TSB that is all 5w-30 oils.

The main thing I'm confused about is that it looks like Audi changed their recommended oil type to 0w-30. There is evidence of this in a RS5 thread as well.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...oil-type/page2

And now you can buy VW/Audi branded 0w-30 504/507 approved oils from many different places. Look at post 66 and 69 from the link above.

The grade doesn't matter all that much compared to the approval. If you are not starting the car after sitting in -30 weather for several hours, it makes no real difference.

Also FWIW, VW switched oil manufacturers from Castrol to Mobil about six months go. The VW/Audi 0w30 is Mobil 1 ESP.

[B4YM4X]

The easiest 504 to find typically is Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, I believe it's on sale at Napa right now for about $6 a quart or so.



The grade doesn't matter all that much compared to the approval. If you are not starting the car after sitting in -30 weather for several hours, it makes no real difference.

Also FWIW, VW switched oil manufacturers from Castrol to Mobil about six months go. The VW/Audi 0w30 is Mobil 1 ESP.

I'm pretty much on the same page as you are right now.

I was able to call a few dealers and they ALL confirmed that the RS3 is supposed to use 504 approved oil and that the type is now recently changed to 0w-30.

The part number for the new 504 0w-30 approved oil is GE550301QDSP.

We checked 2019/2020 RS3 and they even looked at 2019/2020 RS5 which also uses 504 spec oil.

On my RS3, the dealer did a free oil change for me prior to delivery, since it was a 2019 and on the lot for a bit. The parts guy ran the part number and it was also confirmed to be 0w-30 oil.

So like you said, I'll most likely run 504/507 oil (which is the most important), and just decide if I want 5w30 or 0w-30.

I think I also read somewhere this rebanded VW/Audi oil is by Mobil as well.

[Potatohead_RS3]

5w oils are approved/tested down to -30°C, 0w's are approved down to -35°C. So there really is not a whole lot of difference. With that said there is not much advantage to using a 5w over a 0w until you really start splitting hairs, so to just recommend 0w for everyone is more simple. At the time the 504 spec was originally made, ~12 years ago they were all 5w30's. Only in the last few years have 0w30's also started to be allowed.

[B4YM4X]

5w oils are approved/tested down to -30°C, 0w's are approved down to -35°C. So there really is not a whole lot of difference. With that said there is not much advantage to using a 5w over a 0w until you really start splitting hairs, so to just recommend 0w for everyone is more simple. At the time the 504 spec was originally made, ~12 years ago they were all 5w30's. Only in the last few years have 0w30's also started to be allowed.

Do you think the 0w-30 would help, even very slightly, when we start a cold engine? Even if it's not below freezing temps?

I also thought 5w-30 is slightly "thicker" oil hence why they say it might be worse on gas but offer slightly better engine protection if it gets really hot?

I am not an expert on oil by any means.

[tegxsi]

Shouldn't be overthinking this... I'm perfectly fine with 502 spec at 5k change intervals. The car doesn't have particulate filters...
If 504/507 spec is easier and cheaper to obtain then I would buy that but I would still be changing it at 5k. Make sure your car is warmed up before beating on it lol

[o1turbo30v]

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Yup, this^^^ $22/5 quarts at Walmart, made in Belgium, very very good stuff

[B4YM4X]

Shouldn't be overthinking this... I'm perfectly fine with 502 spec at 5k change intervals. The car doesn't have particulate filters...
If 504/507 spec is easier and cheaper to obtain then I would buy that but I would still be changing it at 5k. Make sure your car is warmed up before beating on it lol

Well I'm an engineer by trade so it's in my nature to look at the finer details haha.

With that said, it does seem like 504/507 is built to a stricter standard compared to 502. From my research it's not just about why it's better if you have the filter.

And at the moment it's pretty easy to get any oil so my thinking is why not use the newest standard that Audi is recommending on their newest 2020 guide.

It was just a matter of picking between 5w30 and 0w30 at this point, both of which are 504/507 spec.

And yes of course, I usually drive very easy in comfort before switching to dynamic after the oil is fully warmed up.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Do you think the 0w-30 would help, even very slightly, when we start a cold engine? Even if it's not below freezing temps?

I also thought 5w-30 is slightly "thicker" oil hence why they say it might be worse on gas but offer slightly better engine protection if it gets really hot?

I am not an expert on oil by any means.

0w30 is not thinner than 5w30. In fact it could even be thicker at operating temps, and a lot of them are. 30 grade oil means that at 100°C, the oil falls within a certain viscosity range. So it is absolutely possible that some are thicker than others, the number before the w is irrelevant at that point. The oils we use in these cares, "Euro" 30 grades are very thick 30 grades, almost 40 grades. Compared to a "regular" API 30 grade like Pennzoil Platinum or whatever, they are substantially thicker, but they are both called 30 grades because they are both within the range.

All the 0w guarantees is that the oil is pumpable (can be sucked up through the oil screen) at -35°C. That's it. That does not mean it is thinner at various warmer temperatures.

So in short the answer to your first question is no, not really. If you started two cars at say, -20, the oils would be functionally extremely similar.

[tegxsi]

Well I'm an engineer by trade so it's in my nature to look at the finer details haha.

With that said, it does seem like 504/507 is built to a stricter standard compared to 502. From my research it's not just about why it's better if you have the filter.

And at the moment it's pretty easy to get any oil so my thinking is why not use the newest standard that Audi is recommending on their newest 2020 guide.

It was just a matter of picking between 5w30 and 0w30 at this point, both of which are 504/507 spec.

And yes of course, I usually drive very easy in comfort before switching to dynamic after the oil is fully warmed up.

With the RS3 being my first VW/Audi, I was getting confused with these oil specs in the beginning.

The sticker under the hood of my 2018 says I can use 504 or 502. I don't know if this has changed in 2019+

Most of the 502 spec oils I have found have been XW-40. All 504/507 appear to be XW-30 weight. The chemistry is beyond me but I believe the push for 504 spec is for fuel economy. I'm pretty sure my dealer is putting 5w-40 in my car which is fine by me. lol

[Potatohead_RS3]

With the RS3 being my first VW/Audi, I was getting confused with these oil specs in the beginning.

The sticker under the hood of my 2018 says I can use 504 or 502. I don't know if this has changed in 2019+

Most of the 502 spec oils I have found have been XW-40. All 504/507 appear to be XW-30 weight. The chemistry is beyond me but I believe the push for 504 spec is for fuel economy. I'm pretty sure my dealer is putting 5w-40 in my car which is fine by me. lol

Nothing to do with fuel economy. Even though one is 40 grade, and one 30 grade, they are on the low/high end of their respective ranges and the viscosity difference is really not a lot (about 10%).

504 is superior oil for most people and for daily drivers. It is much cleaner and has better wear resistance, it is probably the hardest oil spec to meet in the world. The biggest difference between 504 vs 502 is that the former has a lot less ash content (called saps), which means most people will see significantly reduced carbon buildup, and there will be less buildup in the cats. This is of course assuming people care about those things, I realize a lot of people on here don't.

502 is probably a better choice for all out track work (road course) but if you were doing that I would probably move into a racing oil like Redline or 300V or something instead.

[TheContrarian]

Dealers want to put the 502 stuff in because it is ultra cheap. That how you achieve 50% gross margins in the service side but 6% on vehicle sales.

[B4YM4X]

Nothing to do with fuel economy. Even though one is 40 grade, and one 30 grade, they are on the low/high end of their respective ranges and the viscosity difference is really not a lot (about 10%).

504 is superior oil for most people and for daily drivers. It is much cleaner and has better wear resistance, it is probably the hardest oil spec to meet in the world. The biggest difference between 504 vs 502 is that the former has a lot less ash content (called saps), which means most people will see significantly reduced carbon buildup, and there will be less buildup in the cats. This is of course assuming people care about those things, I realize a lot of people on here don't.

502 is probably a better choice for all out track work (road course) but if you were doing that I would probably move into a racing oil like Redline or 300V or something instead.

What oil do you run in your RS3?

Right now I'm thinking of running the VW/Audi 504 0w30 oil or maybe something like Liqui Moly 4200 5w30. Which one would you run between these two?

[Potatohead_RS3]

What oil do you run in your RS3?

Right now I'm thinking of running the VW/Audi 504 0w30 oil or maybe something like Liqui Moly 4200 5w30. Which one would you run between these two?

I personally prefer Mobil to LM, but if they both have the same approvals it's really splitting hairs. I certainly wouldn't pay much more for one over the other.

I use M1 5w30 ESP.

[B4YM4X]

I personally prefer Mobil to LM, but if they both have the same approvals it's really splitting hairs. I certainly wouldn't pay much more for one over the other.

I use M1 5w30 ESP.

Yeah I'm leaning towards the VW/Audi (Mobil?) 0w-30 oil right now.

Price isn't that bad. Shopdap has it for $7.88 per bottle and I have some shopdap cash to burn.

I was looking at M1 5w30 ESP as well since shopdap carries them too. The only thing that turned me off on that one was it looks like the formula has changed. All the praise that oil received was from the "old" formula if you research it on bobistheoilguy forums. Supposedly the "new" formula has a bit more sulfur in it. This might be true because if you look up both 5w30 and 0w30 ESP, they carry the VW cert but not BMW. Looks like this might be why they lost BMW cert.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Yeah I'm leaning towards the VW/Audi (Mobil?) 0w-30 oil right now.

Price isn't that bad. Shopdap has it for $7.88 per bottle and I have some shopdap cash to burn.

I was looking at M1 5w30 ESP as well since shopdap carries them too. The only thing that turned me off on that one was it looks like the formula has changed. All the praise that oil received was from the "old" formula if you research it on bobistheoilguy forums. Supposedly the "new" formula has a bit more sulfur in it. This might be true because if you look up both 5w30 and 0w30 ESP, they carry the VW cert but not BMW. Looks like this might be why they lost BMW cert.

'ESP Formula' was previously made in France, the new stuff is just 'ESP' and is made in Texas. They switched it about 24 months ago or so.

On paper the newer stuff is "inferior," but it is still a top grade oil, one of the top tier oils on the market. The previous version was very slightly thicker and had saps level of 0.6, the new version has saps level of 0.8. 502 oils are usually around 1.2 - 1.3 or so.

Edit - I'm not even sure if an "old" France version of 0w30 was ever made or not, I think they only made 5w30. The 0w30 is a newer product.

[B4YM4X]

'ESP Formula' was previously made in France, the new stuff is just 'ESP' and is made in Texas. They switched it about 24 months ago or so.

On paper the newer stuff is "inferior," but it is still a top grade oil, one of the top tier oils on the market. The previous version was very slightly thicker and had saps level of 0.6, the new version has saps level of 0.8. 502 oils are usually around 1.2 - 1.3 or so.

Correct that's what was said in the forums as well. That the newer version did have higher saps level but was still pretty low compared to many different oils out there.

I think I'll end up buying the VW/Audi 0w30 oil since I was able to confirm with the dealer I bought the car from this is the same oil they used for my car.

And this is the new oil that all the dealers around me carry now as well when I called to confirm.

This is probably overkill again, but I'll be doing my post break in oil change right now at 1k. I'll do one at 5k to keep it even at 5k miles. Then do 5k from there.

I feel comfortable with this interval since most of my driving is stop and go and short drives. And since I'm working from home indefinitely I won't be driving much regardless.

[aaronc7]

I know a few guys who went to local dealer for the correct oil for their RS3 and were sold 502.... dealer is never a reliable source for about anything it seems, lol.

Builder approvals and warranty type concerns aside, has anyone tried/looked at Pennzoil "Euro L". "Euro LX" is a 504 oil, but the "Euro L" is Dexos2, MB 229.31 and MB 229.51 (missing 229.52 in comparison to LX). According to those lubrizol spider charts, only diff between .51 and .52 is resistance to oxidation thickening, and fuel economy, were the .52 spec is a little more stringent.

The reason that the Euro L is interesting to me is because it is available locally at Walmart etc for the standard $22-23 for 5 quarts. Seems like an interesting (maybe better?) alternative than getting a 502 oil locally, both sold at the same price. Personally I do oil changes about every 5k and not interested in the 10k changes or pushing the OCI.

Euro L: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...36d793a208.pdf

Euro LX: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...72739df2e8.pdf

[Potatohead_RS3]

I know a few guys who went to local dealer for the correct oil for their RS3 and were sold 502.... dealer is never a reliable source for about anything it seems, lol.

Builder approvals and warranty type concerns aside, has anyone tried/looked at Pennzoil "Euro L". "Euro LX" is a 504 oil, but the "Euro L" is Dexos2, MB 229.31 and MB 229.51 (missing 229.52 in comparison to LX). According to those lubrizol spider charts, only diff between .51 and .52 is resistance to oxidation thickening, and fuel economy, were the .52 spec is a little more stringent.

The reason that the Euro L is interesting to me is because it is available locally at Walmart etc for the standard $22-23 for 5 quarts. Seems like an interesting (maybe better?) alternative than getting a 502 oil locally, both sold at the same price. Personally I do oil changes about every 5k and not interested in the 10k changes or pushing the OCI.

Euro L: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...36d793a208.pdf

Euro LX: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...72739df2e8.pdf

These oils are interesting in that the L carries LL04 approval, but not 504, and the LX is the opposite... But then they both have 229.51. I would think it would make more sense for Pennzoil (Shell) to just make one oil that would carry them all, but who knows.

It's surprising to me that LX is so hard to find down there. Up here, it is readily available to the point that there is also the exact same oil re-bottled as Quaker State and store brand (Motomaster) versions of it, and they're both cheaper.

Obviously, there is something in the L that doesn't jive with 504, but I'm not sure exactly what that is.

[leecaleb1]

I've seen many running 5W-40. Is there any reason some are running a 40 weight oil over the factory-spec 30 weight?

[B4YM4X]

I've seen many running 5W-40. Is there any reason some are running a 40 weight oil over the factory-spec 30 weight?

There are a lot VW 502 approved oils I believe that are 5w40.

At least on my 2019, there is a sticker that says 504 or 502 oil is approved.

I'm just going with Audi's recommendation now which as of 2019 schedule, 504 oil was 5w30 and based on the 2020 schedule 504 oil is now 0w30.

And I know people say dealers usually don't know that much but I feel very comfortable with my own research that this is true. The few Audi parts departments that I have called confirmed this with what is showing up in their computers.

Also backed up by another RS5 audizine thread where they also use 504 oil.

The only thing I wasn't 100% sure was if Audi switched from Castrol to Mobil. Based on a little bit of data this seems to be true and the recommended 504 oil was Castrol Edge 5w30. Then Audi switched to using their own Audi/VW branded 504/507 0w30 oil which looks to be Mobil 1 ESP.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Audi/VW is in the process of switching all cars (or maybe they have by now) to 504 and 508 (0w20 lower saps) oil specs. The reason they kept 502 around so long is because sulphur levels in North American gasoline were too high to use the lower saps oils confidently for 10k. In 2017 the sulphur levels were reduced and thus makes the use of those oils viable.

[steve111b]

Someone asked Audi Canada about the 504 oil. They did not know, so they gave the guy a contact in Germany. The German contact said that Audi will switch all the cars to the new 504 spec oil. The 5 cylinder was the first to get the new 504 spec. When asked about the 502/504 sticker, the contact was surprised that the 502 spec was carried over. I did see the graph for the 504 and it has a slightly better wear characteristic. The whole exchange ended up on an oil forum website (do not remember which one).

[SinatraQ]

Anyone use AMSOIL? https://www.amsoil.com/p/sae-5w-30-l...?code=AELQT-EA

I'm used to this stuff being the best company for GTRS, didn't know if it carries the same name on the Audis.

[Potatohead_RS3]

Anyone use AMSOIL? https://www.amsoil.com/p/sae-5w-30-l...?code=AELQT-EA

I'm used to this stuff being the best company for GTRS, didn't know if it carries the same name on the Audis.

It is good oil

The question is whether it's worth the money... Probably not. It's double the price for very little (if any) real world gains.

[SinatraQ]

It is good oil

The question is whether it's worth the money... Probably not. It's 3+ times the price of other approved oils.

True, guess I’ll give LM a try.


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[SinatraQ]

It is good oil

The question is whether it's worth the money... Probably not. It's double the price for very little (if any) real world gains.

I should have asked, what exact 5w-30 LM is the newest / best for us.


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