Oil pooling on valve cover (2012 A4)

[nop]

Hi all!

I have a 2012 A4 S-line with around 130k miles, bought used about 2 years ago with ~80k miles.

Last year I had the timing chain replaced along with the turbo by a independent shop while trying to fix an oil leak. About a month later I had the waterpump replaced.

About a month ago it started leaking oil again and this morning my car was running low on oil and shut off. I took a peek under the hood before going to get more oil and noticed a significant amount of oil pooling around the valve cover.

At the moment, I'm planning to change the oil/filter and maybe grab a VCG in case it needs to be replaced.

Any tips and thoughts as to what could be happening to have that much oil around the packs and valve cover? (pics below)
---

[MyDimeIsUp]

Intake manifold gasket?

[Stazi]

Intake manifold gasket?

No. It doesn’t even touch oil


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[Smac770]

Idling, there's no visible oil movement? Holding a 4k rev (so high oil pressure position is invoked), there's no visible oil movement?
There's oil around the spark plug 1 hole, but is there any inside the hole, if you pull the coil?
That last pic, could be the upper timing cover gasket. It's not replace if removed, so the timing work would not necessarily have replaced it.
But you had an oil leak then too? Unrelated area?
youtu.be/e0EtW6yxKb8
Ran across that video recently, looks messy but I guess it would be informative.

[Theiceman]

There is no vc gasket on this csr. It would have to be reasealed..not difficult job but by no means simple..
Power wash engine and observe for leaks

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[daughtersA4]

The source is the upper tuning chain cover. I had the same issue on my 2012. Take the cover off and replace the cover gasket, and the two inner o-rings. The pooling oil will go away.

[daughtersA4]

This is everything you need. This link is to eBay but if you want to buy from Audi or online Audi parts house make sure you replace all 3.

https://www.ebay.com/i/192846629280?...iABEgKTfvD_BwE

[Slick_B8]

This is happening cause you have too much crankcase pressure. More than likely your pcv valve shit the bed and its trying to release the pressure. I had oil pool up like that for me before and it was a bad pcv.

[nop]

Idling, there's no visible oil movement? Holding a 4k rev (so high oil pressure position is invoked), there's no visible oil movement?
There's oil around the spark plug 1 hole, but is there any inside the hole, if you pull the coil?
That last pic, could be the upper timing cover gasket. It's not replace if removed, so the timing work would not necessarily have replaced it.
But you had an oil leak then too? Unrelated area?
youtu.be/e0EtW6yxKb8
Ran across that video recently, looks messy but I guess it would be informative.

I cleaned the cover and let it idle for about 30 minutes and did not notice any movement. I had a friend hold it at 4k for about 30s and didn't see anything.

I took pics after cleaning it and after the drive. left-side is after cleaning, right-side is after driving ~ 1mile

[Stazi]

Looks like maybe the upper timing cover gasket.


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[nop]

This is happening cause you have too much crankcase pressure. More than likely your pcv valve shit the bed and its trying to release the pressure. I had oil pool up like that for me before and it was a bad pcv.

Roger that, I had the PCV valve replaced last year along with the other repairs, think it might have died again?

This is everything you need. This link is to eBay but if you want to buy from Audi or online Audi parts house make sure you replace all 3.

https://www.ebay.com/i/192846629280?...iABEgKTfvD_BwE

10-4, I went ahead and ordered that kit, should get here early next week. Thanks!

[B44]

Similar situation happened to me the pcv bolts had become loose and re-tightened them and was fixed.

[Chillaxin]

Looks like maybe the upper timing cover gasket.


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+1

[Smac770]

You can see the layout of that cover here. The cover is (2).

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../1/103-103022/

The main gasket is (19), $13, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...ket-06h103483c
The round seal is (20), $9, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...eal-06h103483d
You'll need the o-ring (35), $3, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...eal-wht007212b

But you also see five bolts (18). These have an o-ring on them that turns into stone. It's possible the o-ring on the top one is part of your issue.
You can see them pretty well in this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Upper-Timin...5/153668069781 (no idea how they charge only $21 for all that and make any money)
$26 for five, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...bolt-06j103831
But you might get by with only one if you don't seem to see any oil issues down the front of the timing covers.

Genuineaudiparts has good parts prices, but I still make the list on ECS and FCP also and see where the bottom line ends up. My most recent order, that free shipping over $50 won the job for ECS, about $10 cheaper overall.

At this point, you have the three seals coming, so might consider picking up a bolt also.

[Theiceman]

id also try to measure crankcase vacuum at idle if you have a gauge. it doesnt tell you everything but night tell you something.
you said you replaced PCV .. was it a hengst ? or some after market ?

[nop]

You can see the layout of that cover here. The cover is (2).

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../1/103-103022/

The main gasket is (19), $13, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...ket-06h103483c
The round seal is (20), $9, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...eal-06h103483d
You'll need the o-ring (35), $3, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...eal-wht007212b

But you also see five bolts (18). These have an o-ring on them that turns into stone. It's possible the o-ring on the top one is part of your issue.
You can see them pretty well in this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Upper-Timin...5/153668069781 (no idea how they charge only $21 for all that and make any money)
$26 for five, https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...bolt-06j103831
But you might get by with only one if you don't seem to see any oil issues down the front of the timing covers.

Genuineaudiparts has good parts prices, but I still make the list on ECS and FCP also and see where the bottom line ends up. My most recent order, that free shipping over $50 won the job for ECS, about $10 cheaper overall.

At this point, you have the three seals coming, so might consider picking up a bolt also.

I live sorta close to Audi ATL so I'll run up there and pickup the bolts, might as well get all 5. Thank you for the detail, I was looking at that diagram earlier to double check I had everything.

id also try to measure crankcase vacuum at idle if you have a gauge. it doesnt tell you everything but night tell you something.
you said you replaced PCV .. was it a hengst ? or some after market ?

Not sure specifically, but I had originally tried an aftermarket PCV before I took it to a shop and they replaced the aftermarket one with a PCV from Audi because of issues they've seen in the past.

I don't have a gauge with me, but I'll have one tonight and will measure vaccuum at idle

[nop]

While I'm shopping and planning, any tips on replacing the upper timing chain gasket and magnet seal? Specific torq specs, 'good to knows' or things to look out for?

I don't need to grease the gasket or anything right? And when taking off the upper timing chain cover, anything I need to keep an eye on to make sure timing/cams are not disturbed?

[capital89]

I had the same mess when my upper timing cover seal was leaking. Took me 20 minutes to replace it and the circular gasket that goes the cover . No special tools needed. Just don't drop anything into where the chains are and you will be good! No need for silicone

[Smac770]

You might call ahead and make sure they have them, and check their price on them. I was surprised when I went to pick up rotors and bolts at Audi North Atl (the old Nalley one) and they didn't stock the front caliper carrier bolts. So just reused them (which the guy said their techs do anyway) until could get new ones online.

Don't oil the main gasket, do oil the round seal and the o-ring. You don't use any sealants. Torque spec for all the relevant bolts is 9 Nm. It's quick and easy process, though I did it with the lock carrier in service position. Was checking out some other things, and gives several inches of clearance in front of the timing covers. But for just this task, service position is likely going to add more time than save. You can use hex or torx on the bolts, iirc. You will need to remove the bolt down the dipstick tube also, iirc.

And as mentioned, yeah, don't drop anything into the void. Don't do that.

[Theiceman]

one tip .. many get hung up on the TORX they see for the timing cover bolts, yet the outside is a 10mm so you just need a small ratchet and 10mm socket.

[nop]

You might call ahead and make sure they have them, and check their price on them. I was surprised when I went to pick up rotors and bolts at Audi North Atl (the old Nalley one) and they didn't stock the front caliper carrier bolts. So just reused them (which the guy said their techs do anyway) until could get new ones online.

Don't oil the main gasket, do oil the round seal and the o-ring. You don't use any sealants. Torque spec for all the relevant bolts is 9 Nm. It's quick and easy process, though I did it with the lock carrier in service position. Was checking out some other things, and gives several inches of clearance in front of the timing covers. But for just this task, service position is likely going to add more time than save. You can use hex or torx on the bolts, iirc. You will need to remove the bolt down the dipstick tube also, iirc.

And as mentioned, yeah, don't drop anything into the void. Don't do that.

10-4, I called up there on lunch and they have it all in stock and only slightly more expensive. I'm going to grab them after work along with the gaskets etc and see if I can knock it out tonight.

one tip .. many get hung up on the TORX they see for the timing cover bolts, yet the outside is a 10mm so you just need a small ratchet and 10mm socket.

LOL I was looking earlier at it and while I have a crappy set of torx handy.. I didn't notice the bolt head, thanks for that.

[Theiceman]

did you check your oil cap and gasket integrity ? , there is a lot of oil around there.

[nop]

did you check your oil cap and gasket integrity ? , there is a lot of oil around there.

I don't see anything that sticks out.

[Theiceman]

Yeah heavy rubber gasket apears to be there....
Here is mine for comparison.
20200910_182713.jpeg

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[nop]

Here is the vacuum when idle , ~.25hg

[Stazi]

That 2.5”Hg


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[Theiceman]

And that is right in spec.....
Anyone have spec for while driving. I thought somone has this info and posted.

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[Smac770]

I put my Mityvac vacuum/pressure gauge on the dipstick tube during my dinner run as I was curious. The vacuum in the crankcase at idle won't push the oil out like it looks in those pics, but pressure should, no? Unfortunately, the gauge on the Mityvac combo hand pump sucks for low readings (<|5|). Also, the 12' tube run I had in place so I could read the gauge and drive no doubt dampened the results some.

But I was seeing 3 inHg at idle, maybe 1 inHg at WOT and light load cruising, 0 at unconnected, 1 maybe 2 psi at cruising up a hill. The highest psi was certainly when cruising at basic rpms (1800-2500) and getting a load like the road turning uphill. The pressure would disappear if I laid into the throttle and got the rpms up, or when the load dropped back down such as the road leveling out.


On the oil cap, that rubber ring around it is not relevant to the seal. I think it's just to block dirt build up. But for short term testing, I would remove it and just run the cap alone. And then run masking tape to seal off that gap. See if oil then builds up inside or stays outside. I'd even run a wall of masking tape along that metal wall which the upper cover mates to. See if the oil build up remains on the timing cover side of it or if it builds up on the engine side.

[nop]

Ok so getting to the lower torx for the cam adjuster magnet felt impossible with the clearance I had so I just went ahead and placed it into service position. More pics after today's grind

[Theiceman]

I put my Mityvac vacuum/pressure gauge on the dipstick tube during my dinner run as I was curious. The vacuum in the crankcase at idle won't push the oil out like it looks in those pics, but pressure should, no? Unfortunately, the gauge on the Mityvac combo hand pump sucks for low readings (<|5|). Also, the 12' tube run I had in place so I could read the gauge and drive no doubt dampened the results some.

But I was seeing 3 inHg at idle, maybe 1 inHg at WOT and light load cruising, 0 at unconnected, 1 maybe 2 psi at cruising up a hill. The highest psi was certainly when cruising at basic rpms (1800-2500) and getting a load like the road turning uphill. The pressure would disappear if I laid into the throttle and got the rpms up, or when the load dropped back down such as the road leveling out.


On the oil cap, that rubber ring around it is not relevant to the seal. I think it's just to block dirt build up. But for short term testing, I would remove it and just run the cap alone. And then run masking tape to seal off that gap. See if oil then builds up inside or stays outside. I'd even run a wall of masking tape along that metal wall which the upper cover mates to. See if the oil build up remains on the timing cover side of it or if it builds up on the engine side.

yes to be clear i was talking about the heavy rubber ring on the cap not the rubber collar.. just so much oil this is odd..

- - - Updated - - -

Ok so getting to the lower torx for the cam adjuster magnet felt impossible with the clearance I had so I just went ahead and placed it into service position. More pics after today's grind

what i lightweight ....

j/k

[nop]

what i lightweight ....

j/k

hahahhahah

[nop]

Welp, here's what we got











Undercarriage, oil everywhere:

[Theiceman]

[Theiceman]

good news is you have the updated chain.

[nop]

yeah that looks really sus

[nop]

more (slightly legible) pics from down under

[Smac770]

Those two little spots in the gasket upper corners that Ice circled, one on each side, are "normal". I thought maybe that was my issue too, but exact same thing with the new gasket. Just seems to be the way it lays.

But wow, the turbo looks soaked. Oil droplets hanging off the turbo oil return line. That's on the side, I wouldn't imagine in the line of attack from the upper cover. If you get it cleaned up and the upper cover work done, might want to idle the engine with the car up so you can see there and see if getting activity where the oil lines go to the block or to the turbo (can see both in that first pic of the prior post; two screws on the black return line, one screw on the braided supply line).

[Theiceman]

id be power washing that engine as its difficult to do any sort of leak detection with that mess

[nop]

I just washed the hell out of it, going to complete the cover and leave it up while idle to see if I can spot anything

[Smac770]

Are you noticing the oil level going down at any speedy rate? If not, while it looks messy, it might just be the build up over significant time. There might not be much to see. Or maybe it only happens in bursts, like WOT or higher crankcase pressure. But you have to start somewhere.