Serviced the transmission, still having the issue, I'm lost now

[zizouomar]

Hi there everyone,

so if you have been active on this forum you may have seen one or more of my 29842403 posts about me trying to figure out how to make my car drives "correctly", let's forget driving great...

Basically, my issue since getting the car almost a year ago is the clunky and jerky transmission (a4 b8.5 zf8 quattro).
When it shifts, it is really really rare that I dont get a ridiculous hard and clunky shudder. Even worst when going to a stop, the transmission ALWAYS goes by 4-3-2-1, downshifting every gear each by each causing a forward lurch that feels like someone driving manual and letting off the clutch pedal too soon.
Also, when in a traffic jam, lets say the car is in 2nd gear, it keeps the gear till maybe 3000rpm, never shifts and then when it passes over the 3k, boom I get a hard kick and it lurch forward to the 3rd gear, then I brake because, obviously traffic jam makes you accelerate/brake, and boom another kick because it downshifts to 2nd gear, way too soon.
And god dont let me start about the manual mode, jesus, I can't even drive it. I feel like getting hit from behind every time I shift as the forward lurch is hard.

I have already done for more than 3000$ of repairs and maintenance on it since then, and still, it shifts like real sh*t. I drove a ton of cars, manual, automatic, and this one is by far the worst transmission I have ever tried.

So here is what I tried to do to resolve the issue, in order since august 2019 :

- spark plugs (ngk-r) and coil packs (bosch red top r8)
Result ? Absolutely nothing.

- oem pcv valve last update
Result ? Less oil consumption, nothing on resolving my issue.

- transmission software update and readaptation at the dealer
Result ? Meh, a tiny bit smoother going from 2nd to 1st, like 1/10 of the time. All other downshifts still harsh as f**k.

- engine and motor mounts (lemforder)
Result ? Absolutely nothing, or maybe less in-car vibration at a red light.

- Transmission lifeguard 8 fluid drain and refill + filter replacement (about 7liters) + adaptation reset
Result ? Felt smoother the first day, probably placebo. Sometimes I have 2 or 3 inline gear changes smooth, but this happens like 1/10 of the time.
Shop showed me the filter and it was muddy, clogged up and the magnets were all sticked with scraps. But of course, after a day of "smoothness" that honestly wasnt that smooth, still shifts shitty.

I've visited dealers and shops and always claiming that "it is not that bad" "it is a bit hard sometime but honestly, it is kinda smooth" "it feels normal to me"
But trust me, it is NOT normal at ALL. Especially that I have tried other B8.5 and B8 and they all shifts silky smooth, you cant even notice you have a transmission running.

I'll take the last ideas this month from you guys, if I dont find a final solution as of august, I'm selling this garbage and getting a manual A5/S5 and never buying an automatic. Never ever.

I was so happy to go from VW to Audi expecting more "luxury" and even more smoothness on a somehow recent car and damn, I'm so disappointed it makes me sad and regretting the move.

[Theiceman]

Sounds like you need a new transmission.
Or just dump the car.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[jn1kk]

Experienced this myself on by 2015 A4. Got a software update from dealer, made it a somewhat better. According to Audi people I talked to, this is a very common complaint. They said they might ask AoA for a mechatronic replacement if the update doesn't make it any better. I just left it at that.

Audi mechatronics suck in general. If you go drive or even watch a review on brand new bmw/merc/audi(b8/b9), reviewers will always say Audi transmissions are the jerkiest (I know B9 Audi is dual-clutch not zf8). I learned to live with it, car drove 60000 miles since then. The transmission is fine.

Some people tried to argue that hard shifts are better for transmission longevity, but I'm not sure if there is any truth to that.

Obviously people can hate automatics all they want, but ZF8 is an amazing transmission. Its the garbage that Audi puts on top of it that shits the bed.

[SDF1]

What year and how many KM on your car? Are you under warranty?
Also which dealer are you going to? Not all dealers are created equal.

I had similar issue but not as bad with my 6 speed automatic and I kept complaining till they replaced the mechatronic under warranty.

[zizouomar]

Experienced this myself on by 2015 A4. Got a software update from dealer, made it a somewhat better. According to Audi people I talked to, this is a very common complaint. They said they might ask AoA for a mechatronic replacement if the update doesn't make it any better. I just left it at that.

Audi mechatronics suck in general. If you go drive or even watch a review on brand new bmw/merc/audi(b8/b9), reviewers will always say Audi transmissions are the jerkiest (I know B9 Audi is dual-clutch not zf8). I learned to live with it, car drove 60000 miles since then. The transmission is fine.

Some people tried to argue that hard shifts are better for transmission longevity, but I'm not sure if there is any truth to that.

Obviously people can hate automatics all they want, but ZF8 is an amazing transmission. Its the garbage that Audi puts on top of it that shits the bed.

You still own the car ? How is it acting now ?

Yea I've read everywhere that this is the best automatic transmission ever made, but god when I drive my car I wonder how could people say that. I'd love to experience a good working ZF to see how amazing it should be.

[zizouomar]

What year and how many KM on your car? Are you under warranty?
Also which dealer are you going to? Not all dealers are created equal.

I had similar issue but not as bad with my 6 speed automatic and I kept complaining till they replaced the mechatronic under warranty.

2013 130k KM, not under warranty.

I'm in Montreal, Canada. I went to 2 different dealers. The first one, guys there didnt even know what I was talking about when I asked about a TCU update. Second one is great but after the update they still tell me that everything looks fine. I'll pass by this one monday to try and drive an automatic b8.5 CPO that they have for sale and compare it with mine, driving with one of their tech in both of cars. I hope he will see what i'm talking bout.

[elscotto80]

Glad I have a manual.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app

[SDF1]

2013 130k KM, not under warranty.

I'm in Montreal, Canada. I went to 2 different dealers. The first one, guys there didnt even know what I was talking about when I asked about a TCU update. Second one is great but after the update they still tell me that everything looks fine. I'll pass by this one monday to try and drive an automatic b8.5 CPO that they have for sale and compare it with mine, driving with one of their tech in both of cars. I hope he will see what i'm talking bout.

I'm just going to leave this link here and run.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...9-ZF8-TCU-Tune

[ps2cho]

Glad I have a manual.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app

Not only is this an absolute garbage reply providing nothing of value to the OP, or anybody actually, it’s clear your a narcissistic person...plus your response, is not even close to being accurate either which makes it even better to laugh at you over.

The ZF8 is extremely reliable, and you seldom see issues at all. Yet you see clutches getting replaced all the time on the manuals...

[Novarider]

You might need a new mechatronic unit. There are/were a couple people here that had to have it replaced but it's not common at all.

Another option is to pick up a used low mile transmission, get it installed and have it programmed to the car by the dealer.

[elscotto80]

Not only is this an absolute garbage reply providing nothing of value to the OP, or anybody actually, it’s clear your a narcissistic person...plus your response, is not even close to being accurate either which makes it even better to laugh at you over.

The ZF8 is extremely reliable, and you seldom see issues at all. Yet you see clutches getting replaced all the time on the manuals...

Its a personal opinion. Given the multiple visits to the dealer/shop that OP has endured, seems like he's got a bad trans, which sucks.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about auto vs manual - thats not the point of my reply. Carry on.

[zizouomar]

You might need a new mechatronic unit. There are/were a couple people here that had to have it replaced but it's not common at all.

Another option is to pick up a used low mile transmission, get it installed and have it programmed to the car by the dealer.

What is the value difference between a mechatronic unit + labour, and a low mile transmission + installation and prog ?

I wonder if this is a better money worth idea than just selling the car and getting a manual..

[Smac770]

One, you know what you have when the work is done. The other, you have something different, which may or may not be any better, or has a whole different kind of new problem.
I'd replace my whole trans, but that's because I would replace my ZF6 with a ZF8.
Have you pulled your adaptation values to see if they are saying anything useful? Should be a thread around here on the subject.

[ps2cho]

Its a personal opinion. Given the multiple visits to the dealer/shop that OP has endured, seems like he's got a bad trans, which sucks.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about auto vs manual - thats not the point of my reply. Carry on.

"Glad I dont have a manual"

What was the point of your reply then? Because I see it as something only a real POS would post. No value added, and it was entirely about YOU.
You go on cancer forums and post "glad I don't have cancer"?

[zizouomar]

One, you know what you have when the work is done. The other, you have something different, which may or may not be any better, or has a whole different kind of new problem.
I'd replace my whole trans, but that's because I would replace my ZF6 with a ZF8.
Have you pulled your adaptation values to see if they are saying anything useful? Should be a thread around here on the subject.

What do you mean by pulling my adaptation values ?

[Smac770]

For my ZF6, in advanced measuring values under address 02 (TCM), they are called Analysis 2 through 21. There's four values for each of the valves.
I suggest reading page 53 of SSP 457. You're also going to need SSP 385.

[zizouomar]

For my ZF6, in advanced measuring values under address 02 (TCM), they are called Analysis 2 through 21. There's four values for each of the valves.
I suggest reading page 53 of SSP 457. You're also going to need SSP 385.

This can be found on VCDS I guess ? I don't have access to it easily unfortunately

[zizouomar]

By the way, I was with a friend yesterday and he had a 330xi G20 loaner, turned out it has the same ZF8 as our cars. The car is brand new 6000km, and god it jerks too ! It is not smooth at all, even in comfort or eco mode, you feel every shudder with up and downshifts. My friend noticed it and told me about it right away saying that older bimmers are way smoother than this one. We did some google research and on the BMW forums you get a sh*t load of threads of people complaining about how the ZF8 is their cars is clunky and harsh... Brand new or 100 000miles on the car. I dont get why people like this transmission so much, I never drove something this clunky and annoying, especially in low speed/gears. It just convinced me that I will run away from auto transmission for the rest of my life :( the ZF8 specifically.

[mtroxel]

It just convinced me that I will run away from auto transmission for the rest of my life :( the ZF8 specifically.

Sadly, there are no longer any Audi's for sale with a manual. And that's true of many brands.

I'm not sure what's going on there, but the ZF8 in my 2011 is extremely smooth - going up or back down. Sometimes I have to look at the little LCD above the steering column to see if it has shifted.

[zizouomar]

Sadly, there are no longer any Audi's for sale with a manual. And that's true of many brands.

I'm not sure what's going on there, but the ZF8 in my 2011 is extremely smooth - going up or back down. Sometimes I have to look at the little LCD above the steering column to see if it has shifted.

I'm currently seriously looking to go with a manual 6spd B9. They are pretty cheap around here, easily under 24kCAD, 2017 with not that much milage.

Ah damn if only I could experience your smoothness for only one day.. But correct me if I'm wrong but you have a ZF6 not a ZF8, they were integrated late 2012 if I recall.

[mtroxel]

I'm currently seriously looking to go with a manual 6spd B9. They are pretty cheap around here, easily under 24kCAD, 2017 with not that much milage.

Ah damn if only I could experience your smoothness for only one day.. But correct me if I'm wrong but you have a ZF6 not a ZF8, they were integrated late 2012 if I recall.

No I have a ZF8. I believe 2010 and up are all ZF8.

[zizouomar]

No I have a ZF8. I believe 2010 and up are all ZF8.

Didn't know they were equipped with the 8 speed this early.
Did you service it ? Any replacement ? No issues at all ?

[mtroxel]

Didn't know they were equipped with the 8 speed this early.
Did you service it ? Any replacement ? No issues at all ?

1. I did fluid and filter at 86,500 miles. Purely preventative, it made no difference in how it ran/shifted.
2. After my Stage 1 tune, when I would accelerate and thought it should downshift, it would tend to stay in its current gear and I would get some slippage. One day I had a CV joint let go that made tranny codes. When I cleared the codes, it seemed like the trans had to learn everything from scratch. I’ve never had the slippage problem since then, and it is far more likely to downshift when I push it. I believe it had to learn the higher torque the tune produces – but that’s just my theory.

[Smac770]

ZF 8HP was introduced to Audi with the D4 A8 in 2010. All US B8 had the ZF 8HP starting MY11 if they were 2.0T or 3.0T. The Q5 3.2L and the S5 4.2L kept the ZF 6HP through MY12.

The BWMs do not use the same ZF 8HP that the Audis use. No doubt very similar, but also quite different. And you can believe that VAG is milking the tune to the extreme to maximize emission ratings over any and all other considerations.

The adaptation process can be reinitiated. A ZF unit without a good adaptation will be rough, to the point that Audi notes in the SSP to not give a cleared but not readapted vehicle back to a customer. If you change the output characteristics of the engine, a re-adaptation would seem logical.

[zizouomar]

1. I did fluid and filter at 86,500 miles. Purely preventative, it made no difference in how it ran/shifted.
2. After my Stage 1 tune, when I would accelerate and thought it should downshift, it would tend to stay in its current gear and I would get some slippage. One day I had a CV joint let go that made tranny codes. When I cleared the codes, it seemed like the trans had to learn everything from scratch. I’ve never had the slippage problem since then, and it is far more likely to downshift when I push it. I believe it had to learn the higher torque the tune produces – but that’s just my theory.

Yea I saw your post a while ago but the thing is that I don't get any sort of code.

[zizouomar]

ZF 8HP was introduced to Audi with the D4 A8 in 2010. All US B8 had the ZF 8HP starting MY11 if they were 2.0T or 3.0T. The Q5 3.2L and the S5 4.2L kept the ZF 6HP through MY12.

The BWMs do not use the same ZF 8HP that the Audis use. No doubt very similar, but also quite different. And you can believe that VAG is milking the tune to the extreme to maximize emission ratings over any and all other considerations.

The adaptation process can be reinitiated. A ZF unit without a good adaptation will be rough, to the point that Audi notes in the SSP to not give a cleared but not readapted vehicle back to a customer. If you change the output characteristics of the engine, a re-adaptation would seem logical.

When I say that adaptations were reset, I mean that the shop cleared them, and readapted them with the classic test drive for the adaptation process. And this was done twice : once by the dealer and once by the authorized ZF local shop.

[mtroxel]

Yea I saw your post a while ago but the thing is that I don't get any sort of code.

Neither did I. And the dealer insisted there was no way I could get slippage without a code. He thought I was feeling something else. But, this is far more likely to downshift and I don't get slippage since I cleared some codes. The change was immediate.

[zizouomar]

1. One day I had a CV joint let go that made tranny codes. When I cleared the codes

Didn't you say that it throwed codes and you cleared them ?
I mean I never get any codes, except once for a misfire. Maybe I'll try the 15min battery unpluged trick... But i'm sure it will do nothing

[mtroxel]

Didn't you say that it throwed codes and you cleared them ?
I mean I never get any codes, except once for a misfire. Maybe I'll try the 15min battery unpluged trick... But i'm sure it will do nothing

It threw codes because I had a CV joint let go. Long story. Cleared those codes and my tranny problems were gone. But my sysmptoms were pretty different from yours.

I think the disconnect-the-battery-to-clear-codes thing is a myth. I think you need a VCDS or one of these others I see guys talking about.

[zizouomar]

It threw codes because I had a CV joint let go. Long story. Cleared those codes and my tranny problems were gone. But my sysmptoms were pretty different from yours.

I think the disconnect-the-battery-to-clear-codes thing is a myth. I think you need a VCDS or one of these others I see guys talking about.

Ah yea tried the VCDS to reset memory of the tranny, cleared every codes found (even if nothing appeared), still the same. Even dealer with their Audi scanner couldn't find anything. I'll keep trying to find the source of this sh*t till I find myself a B8.5 manual A5 or a B9 manual A4 as I said.

[zizouomar]

I went and tried to ask ZFservice, here is our conversation :

Hi,

I am having a really annoying issue with the transmission in my car since almost a year.
Especially in 1st-2nd-3rd gears, the car shudders and jerks with up and downshifts with a really harsh kick. It also does it in the 5 other gears. But as I drive mostly in city and I get in traffic a lot, I feel the 1-2-3 the most everyday.
I tried leaving the trans in manual mode and driving in the traffic on the 2nd gear only and I still get the hard kick whenever I push or release the gaz pedal.

Here is what I tried to solve the issue :
- Replaced spark plugs and coil packs
- Replaced motor and trans mounts
- Replaced all suspension bushings
- Replaced PCV valve
- Had the latest update at the Audi dealership
- Made a drain and fill of 7liters of official lifeguard 8 with official filter replacement at a ZF authorized shop in Montreal (ZF Service: Eurowa Service, 6225 St-Jacques W, Montreal, QC )
- Reset adaptations

Nothing solved the issue.
I am wondering if you have a solution

Thanks

for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:

Was the fluid clean and full when the fluid change was performed? Do you have any transmission or engine fault codes? .

The original fluid was kind of dark, but as the shop said, not that bad. Then they managed to drain 7Liters and fill 7Liters of new lifeguard8. Filter was also replaced.
I don't have any engine/transmission codes.

There isn't any correlation between the transmission clutches and the complaint. If the fluid was clean and full, there could be an issue with the mechatronic. A sticky or worn valve could be causing the problem..

[zizouomar]

Little "Update"

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night. I noticed that now, from 4 to 8 it is really smooth I dont even feel the gears. BUT, from 4-3 I get a heavy jerk while it downshifts, and I also get a hard shift from 2-3 and 3-4. However the bad jerk I have in D from 3-2, is super smooth in S.

What a mystery..... I don't know where to go with that

[mtroxel]

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night.

I set mine so it can only be in Sport mode, no matter what the lever says. Not because its smoother, but because the damn thing can't wait to be in 8th gear when it's in Drive. Drive is for Soccer Mom's.

[zizouomar]

The thing is even in D mode, while in a traffic jam, it keeps the 2nd gear way too long so I always have a hard kick whenever I release the gaz pedal, and another one when I press it back. I would be glad if it couldn't wait to shift trust me lol, I almost always swipe to manual mode to make it go to the damn 3rd gear, of course I get a harsh kick with that too.

[mtroxel]

Mine is NOT like that at all. Seems like I'm in 6th by 25 mph (an exaggeration...its not that bad) when I'm in D.

[zizouomar]

Lol mine keeps the 2nd gear till almost 50kmh... Then bang, oups I forgot to shift, here is the 3rd gear -__-

[SDF1]

Little "Update"

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night. I noticed that now, from 4 to 8 it is really smooth I dont even feel the gears. BUT, from 4-3 I get a heavy jerk while it downshifts, and I also get a hard shift from 2-3 and 3-4. However the bad jerk I have in D from 3-2, is super smooth in S.

What a mystery..... I don't know where to go with that

I was told by the audi mechanics that when you are in S the transmission "pressure" is different for less slip during high rpm shifts.

[ferndj02]

I only have the clunk at lower speeds mostly when going from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st. I've been reading BMW forums, and I found a similar issue with the 6HP transmission where the sealing sleeves were replaced to fix this issue... Not sure if the 8HP has a similar design. I also found some stuff on Sonnax about servicing the ZF8. It seems like we need to find someone that has knowledge of the ZF transmissions since Audi's preference is to just replace the mechatronics or tell us it's not an issue.

[zizouomar]

I only have the clunk at lower speeds mostly when going from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st. I've been reading BMW forums, and I found a similar issue with the 6HP transmission where the sealing sleeves were replaced to fix this issue... Not sure if the 8HP has a similar design. I also found some stuff on Sonnax about servicing the ZF8. It seems like we need to find someone that has knowledge of the ZF transmissions since Audi's preference is to just replace the mechatronics or tell us it's not an issue.

I'll be going back to the ZF authorized shop next week to show them that I still have the jerkiness in the gears shifts. If they don't know what to do or just suggest a trans replacement, then I'm selling the car, official.

[Theiceman]

I'll be going back to the ZF authorized shop next week to show them that I still have the jerkiness in the gears shifts. If they don't know what to do or just suggest a trans replacement, then I'm selling the car, official.

lol you should have listed to the guy WAAAY back in post 2 ;)