Serviced the transmission, still having the issue, I'm lost now

[zizouomar]

Hi there everyone,

so if you have been active on this forum you may have seen one or more of my 29842403 posts about me trying to figure out how to make my car drives "correctly", let's forget driving great...

Basically, my issue since getting the car almost a year ago is the clunky and jerky transmission (a4 b8.5 zf8 quattro).
When it shifts, it is really really rare that I dont get a ridiculous hard and clunky shudder. Even worst when going to a stop, the transmission ALWAYS goes by 4-3-2-1, downshifting every gear each by each causing a forward lurch that feels like someone driving manual and letting off the clutch pedal too soon.
Also, when in a traffic jam, lets say the car is in 2nd gear, it keeps the gear till maybe 3000rpm, never shifts and then when it passes over the 3k, boom I get a hard kick and it lurch forward to the 3rd gear, then I brake because, obviously traffic jam makes you accelerate/brake, and boom another kick because it downshifts to 2nd gear, way too soon.
And god dont let me start about the manual mode, jesus, I can't even drive it. I feel like getting hit from behind every time I shift as the forward lurch is hard.

I have already done for more than 3000$ of repairs and maintenance on it since then, and still, it shifts like real sh*t. I drove a ton of cars, manual, automatic, and this one is by far the worst transmission I have ever tried.

So here is what I tried to do to resolve the issue, in order since august 2019 :

- spark plugs (ngk-r) and coil packs (bosch red top r8)
Result ? Absolutely nothing.

- oem pcv valve last update
Result ? Less oil consumption, nothing on resolving my issue.

- transmission software update and readaptation at the dealer
Result ? Meh, a tiny bit smoother going from 2nd to 1st, like 1/10 of the time. All other downshifts still harsh as f**k.

- engine and motor mounts (lemforder)
Result ? Absolutely nothing, or maybe less in-car vibration at a red light.

- Transmission lifeguard 8 fluid drain and refill + filter replacement (about 7liters) + adaptation reset
Result ? Felt smoother the first day, probably placebo. Sometimes I have 2 or 3 inline gear changes smooth, but this happens like 1/10 of the time.
Shop showed me the filter and it was muddy, clogged up and the magnets were all sticked with scraps. But of course, after a day of "smoothness" that honestly wasnt that smooth, still shifts shitty.

I've visited dealers and shops and always claiming that "it is not that bad" "it is a bit hard sometime but honestly, it is kinda smooth" "it feels normal to me"
But trust me, it is NOT normal at ALL. Especially that I have tried other B8.5 and B8 and they all shifts silky smooth, you cant even notice you have a transmission running.

I'll take the last ideas this month from you guys, if I dont find a final solution as of august, I'm selling this garbage and getting a manual A5/S5 and never buying an automatic. Never ever.

I was so happy to go from VW to Audi expecting more "luxury" and even more smoothness on a somehow recent car and damn, I'm so disappointed it makes me sad and regretting the move.

[Theiceman]

Sounds like you need a new transmission.
Or just dump the car.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[jn1kk]

Experienced this myself on by 2015 A4. Got a software update from dealer, made it a somewhat better. According to Audi people I talked to, this is a very common complaint. They said they might ask AoA for a mechatronic replacement if the update doesn't make it any better. I just left it at that.

Audi mechatronics suck in general. If you go drive or even watch a review on brand new bmw/merc/audi(b8/b9), reviewers will always say Audi transmissions are the jerkiest (I know B9 Audi is dual-clutch not zf8). I learned to live with it, car drove 60000 miles since then. The transmission is fine.

Some people tried to argue that hard shifts are better for transmission longevity, but I'm not sure if there is any truth to that.

Obviously people can hate automatics all they want, but ZF8 is an amazing transmission. Its the garbage that Audi puts on top of it that shits the bed.

[zizouomar]

Experienced this myself on by 2015 A4. Got a software update from dealer, made it a somewhat better. According to Audi people I talked to, this is a very common complaint. They said they might ask AoA for a mechatronic replacement if the update doesn't make it any better. I just left it at that.

Audi mechatronics suck in general. If you go drive or even watch a review on brand new bmw/merc/audi(b8/b9), reviewers will always say Audi transmissions are the jerkiest (I know B9 Audi is dual-clutch not zf8). I learned to live with it, car drove 60000 miles since then. The transmission is fine.

Some people tried to argue that hard shifts are better for transmission longevity, but I'm not sure if there is any truth to that.

Obviously people can hate automatics all they want, but ZF8 is an amazing transmission. Its the garbage that Audi puts on top of it that shits the bed.

You still own the car ? How is it acting now ?

Yea I've read everywhere that this is the best automatic transmission ever made, but god when I drive my car I wonder how could people say that. I'd love to experience a good working ZF to see how amazing it should be.

[SDF1]

What year and how many KM on your car? Are you under warranty?
Also which dealer are you going to? Not all dealers are created equal.

I had similar issue but not as bad with my 6 speed automatic and I kept complaining till they replaced the mechatronic under warranty.

[zizouomar]

What year and how many KM on your car? Are you under warranty?
Also which dealer are you going to? Not all dealers are created equal.

I had similar issue but not as bad with my 6 speed automatic and I kept complaining till they replaced the mechatronic under warranty.

2013 130k KM, not under warranty.

I'm in Montreal, Canada. I went to 2 different dealers. The first one, guys there didnt even know what I was talking about when I asked about a TCU update. Second one is great but after the update they still tell me that everything looks fine. I'll pass by this one monday to try and drive an automatic b8.5 CPO that they have for sale and compare it with mine, driving with one of their tech in both of cars. I hope he will see what i'm talking bout.

[SDF1]

2013 130k KM, not under warranty.

I'm in Montreal, Canada. I went to 2 different dealers. The first one, guys there didnt even know what I was talking about when I asked about a TCU update. Second one is great but after the update they still tell me that everything looks fine. I'll pass by this one monday to try and drive an automatic b8.5 CPO that they have for sale and compare it with mine, driving with one of their tech in both of cars. I hope he will see what i'm talking bout.

I'm just going to leave this link here and run.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...9-ZF8-TCU-Tune

[elscotto80]

Glad I have a manual.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app

[ps2cho]

Glad I have a manual.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app

Not only is this an absolute garbage reply providing nothing of value to the OP, or anybody actually, it’s clear your a narcissistic person...plus your response, is not even close to being accurate either which makes it even better to laugh at you over.

The ZF8 is extremely reliable, and you seldom see issues at all. Yet you see clutches getting replaced all the time on the manuals...

[elscotto80]

Not only is this an absolute garbage reply providing nothing of value to the OP, or anybody actually, it’s clear your a narcissistic person...plus your response, is not even close to being accurate either which makes it even better to laugh at you over.

The ZF8 is extremely reliable, and you seldom see issues at all. Yet you see clutches getting replaced all the time on the manuals...

Its a personal opinion. Given the multiple visits to the dealer/shop that OP has endured, seems like he's got a bad trans, which sucks.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about auto vs manual - thats not the point of my reply. Carry on.

[ps2cho]

Its a personal opinion. Given the multiple visits to the dealer/shop that OP has endured, seems like he's got a bad trans, which sucks.

I'm not trying to get into a debate about auto vs manual - thats not the point of my reply. Carry on.

"Glad I dont have a manual"

What was the point of your reply then? Because I see it as something only a real POS would post. No value added, and it was entirely about YOU.
You go on cancer forums and post "glad I don't have cancer"?

[Novarider]

You might need a new mechatronic unit. There are/were a couple people here that had to have it replaced but it's not common at all.

Another option is to pick up a used low mile transmission, get it installed and have it programmed to the car by the dealer.

[zizouomar]

You might need a new mechatronic unit. There are/were a couple people here that had to have it replaced but it's not common at all.

Another option is to pick up a used low mile transmission, get it installed and have it programmed to the car by the dealer.

What is the value difference between a mechatronic unit + labour, and a low mile transmission + installation and prog ?

I wonder if this is a better money worth idea than just selling the car and getting a manual..

[Smac770]

One, you know what you have when the work is done. The other, you have something different, which may or may not be any better, or has a whole different kind of new problem.
I'd replace my whole trans, but that's because I would replace my ZF6 with a ZF8.
Have you pulled your adaptation values to see if they are saying anything useful? Should be a thread around here on the subject.

[zizouomar]

One, you know what you have when the work is done. The other, you have something different, which may or may not be any better, or has a whole different kind of new problem.
I'd replace my whole trans, but that's because I would replace my ZF6 with a ZF8.
Have you pulled your adaptation values to see if they are saying anything useful? Should be a thread around here on the subject.

What do you mean by pulling my adaptation values ?

[Smac770]

For my ZF6, in advanced measuring values under address 02 (TCM), they are called Analysis 2 through 21. There's four values for each of the valves.
I suggest reading page 53 of SSP 457. You're also going to need SSP 385.

[zizouomar]

For my ZF6, in advanced measuring values under address 02 (TCM), they are called Analysis 2 through 21. There's four values for each of the valves.
I suggest reading page 53 of SSP 457. You're also going to need SSP 385.

This can be found on VCDS I guess ? I don't have access to it easily unfortunately

[zizouomar]

By the way, I was with a friend yesterday and he had a 330xi G20 loaner, turned out it has the same ZF8 as our cars. The car is brand new 6000km, and god it jerks too ! It is not smooth at all, even in comfort or eco mode, you feel every shudder with up and downshifts. My friend noticed it and told me about it right away saying that older bimmers are way smoother than this one. We did some google research and on the BMW forums you get a sh*t load of threads of people complaining about how the ZF8 is their cars is clunky and harsh... Brand new or 100 000miles on the car. I dont get why people like this transmission so much, I never drove something this clunky and annoying, especially in low speed/gears. It just convinced me that I will run away from auto transmission for the rest of my life :( the ZF8 specifically.

[mtroxel]

It just convinced me that I will run away from auto transmission for the rest of my life :( the ZF8 specifically.

Sadly, there are no longer any Audi's for sale with a manual. And that's true of many brands.

I'm not sure what's going on there, but the ZF8 in my 2011 is extremely smooth - going up or back down. Sometimes I have to look at the little LCD above the steering column to see if it has shifted.

[zizouomar]

Sadly, there are no longer any Audi's for sale with a manual. And that's true of many brands.

I'm not sure what's going on there, but the ZF8 in my 2011 is extremely smooth - going up or back down. Sometimes I have to look at the little LCD above the steering column to see if it has shifted.

I'm currently seriously looking to go with a manual 6spd B9. They are pretty cheap around here, easily under 24kCAD, 2017 with not that much milage.

Ah damn if only I could experience your smoothness for only one day.. But correct me if I'm wrong but you have a ZF6 not a ZF8, they were integrated late 2012 if I recall.

[Smac770]

ZF 8HP was introduced to Audi with the D4 A8 in 2010. All US B8 had the ZF 8HP starting MY11 if they were 2.0T or 3.0T. The Q5 3.2L and the S5 4.2L kept the ZF 6HP through MY12.

The BWMs do not use the same ZF 8HP that the Audis use. No doubt very similar, but also quite different. And you can believe that VAG is milking the tune to the extreme to maximize emission ratings over any and all other considerations.

The adaptation process can be reinitiated. A ZF unit without a good adaptation will be rough, to the point that Audi notes in the SSP to not give a cleared but not readapted vehicle back to a customer. If you change the output characteristics of the engine, a re-adaptation would seem logical.

[zizouomar]

ZF 8HP was introduced to Audi with the D4 A8 in 2010. All US B8 had the ZF 8HP starting MY11 if they were 2.0T or 3.0T. The Q5 3.2L and the S5 4.2L kept the ZF 6HP through MY12.

The BWMs do not use the same ZF 8HP that the Audis use. No doubt very similar, but also quite different. And you can believe that VAG is milking the tune to the extreme to maximize emission ratings over any and all other considerations.

The adaptation process can be reinitiated. A ZF unit without a good adaptation will be rough, to the point that Audi notes in the SSP to not give a cleared but not readapted vehicle back to a customer. If you change the output characteristics of the engine, a re-adaptation would seem logical.

When I say that adaptations were reset, I mean that the shop cleared them, and readapted them with the classic test drive for the adaptation process. And this was done twice : once by the dealer and once by the authorized ZF local shop.

[zizouomar]

Little "Update"

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night. I noticed that now, from 4 to 8 it is really smooth I dont even feel the gears. BUT, from 4-3 I get a heavy jerk while it downshifts, and I also get a hard shift from 2-3 and 3-4. However the bad jerk I have in D from 3-2, is super smooth in S.

What a mystery..... I don't know where to go with that

[mtroxel]

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night.

I set mine so it can only be in Sport mode, no matter what the lever says. Not because its smoother, but because the damn thing can't wait to be in 8th gear when it's in Drive. Drive is for Soccer Mom's.

[SDF1]

Little "Update"

I tried yesterday a Throttle Body Alignment (for maybe the 23938403845th time since owning the car) and tested S mode for the night. I noticed that now, from 4 to 8 it is really smooth I dont even feel the gears. BUT, from 4-3 I get a heavy jerk while it downshifts, and I also get a hard shift from 2-3 and 3-4. However the bad jerk I have in D from 3-2, is super smooth in S.

What a mystery..... I don't know where to go with that

I was told by the audi mechanics that when you are in S the transmission "pressure" is different for less slip during high rpm shifts.

[ferndj02]

I only have the clunk at lower speeds mostly when going from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st. I've been reading BMW forums, and I found a similar issue with the 6HP transmission where the sealing sleeves were replaced to fix this issue... Not sure if the 8HP has a similar design. I also found some stuff on Sonnax about servicing the ZF8. It seems like we need to find someone that has knowledge of the ZF transmissions since Audi's preference is to just replace the mechatronics or tell us it's not an issue.

[zizouomar]

I only have the clunk at lower speeds mostly when going from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st. I've been reading BMW forums, and I found a similar issue with the 6HP transmission where the sealing sleeves were replaced to fix this issue... Not sure if the 8HP has a similar design. I also found some stuff on Sonnax about servicing the ZF8. It seems like we need to find someone that has knowledge of the ZF transmissions since Audi's preference is to just replace the mechatronics or tell us it's not an issue.

I'll be going back to the ZF authorized shop next week to show them that I still have the jerkiness in the gears shifts. If they don't know what to do or just suggest a trans replacement, then I'm selling the car, official.

[Theiceman]

I'll be going back to the ZF authorized shop next week to show them that I still have the jerkiness in the gears shifts. If they don't know what to do or just suggest a trans replacement, then I'm selling the car, official.

lol you should have listed to the guy WAAAY back in post 2 ;)

[ps2cho]

I only have the clunk at lower speeds mostly when going from 3rd to 2nd or 2nd to 1st. I've been reading BMW forums, and I found a similar issue with the 6HP transmission where the sealing sleeves were replaced to fix this issue... Not sure if the 8HP has a similar design. I also found some stuff on Sonnax about servicing the ZF8. It seems like we need to find someone that has knowledge of the ZF transmissions since Audi's preference is to just replace the mechatronics or tell us it's not an issue.

My guess is that the Audi shops have very little tools to diagnose the transmission outside of what the TCU tells them. By them saying just replace the transmission, is that they have no idea what it could be, and it would be a disservice to have you pay for them to trial/error it...with the negative event they ccant find anything. They also don't want to tarnish their reputation by admitting they can't diagnose it.

I hope the ZF authorized shop has intimate experience with it, including hand rebuilds as they may be able to inspect a few things. Almost all shifting issues end up being something within the valve body and pressure circuits, but I dont know the ZF8 well.

[zizouomar]

My guess is that the Audi shops have very little tools to diagnose the transmission outside of what the TCU tells them. By them saying just replace the transmission, is that they have no idea what it could be, and it would be a disservice to have you pay for them to trial/error it...with the negative event they ccant find anything. They also don't want to tarnish their reputation by admitting they can't diagnose it.

I hope the ZF authorized shop has intimate experience with it, including hand rebuilds as they may be able to inspect a few things. Almost all shifting issues end up being something within the valve body and pressure circuits, but I dont know the ZF8 well.

I'll go see them one last time yea

[zizouomar]

The thing is even in D mode, while in a traffic jam, it keeps the 2nd gear way too long so I always have a hard kick whenever I release the gaz pedal, and another one when I press it back. I would be glad if it couldn't wait to shift trust me lol, I almost always swipe to manual mode to make it go to the damn 3rd gear, of course I get a harsh kick with that too.

[mtroxel]

Mine is NOT like that at all. Seems like I'm in 6th by 25 mph (an exaggeration...its not that bad) when I'm in D.

[zizouomar]

Lol mine keeps the 2nd gear till almost 50kmh... Then bang, oups I forgot to shift, here is the 3rd gear -__-

[Traptalk]

What I noticed with my zf8 is that car seems to shift better under load.

Meaning:

The shifts are faster and way smoother if you gas consistently or more thru the shift vs letting off the throttle during or directly after the shift like is common in city driving.

Try getting to an open road, and banging the 1-2-3 at full WOT regardless of what rpm you shift at and see if there is any noticeable difference

[zizouomar]

What I noticed with my zf8 is that car seems to shift better under load.

Meaning:

The shifts are faster and way smoother if you gas consistently or more thru the shift vs letting off the throttle during or directly after the shift like is common in city driving.

Try getting to an open road, and banging the 1-2-3 at full WOT regardless of what rpm you shift at and see if there is any noticeable difference

Trust me I tried every situation possible, it is nearly never smooth. It is even worse at WOT, the car hesitates and seems to catch misfires (no codes at all) and dont know when to shift.

[Traptalk]

lol you should have listed to the guy WAAAY back in post 2 ;)

Trust me I tried every situation possible, it is nearly never smooth. It is even worse at WOT, the car hesitates and seems to catch misfires (no codes at all) and dont know when to shift.

This is definitely a long shot, but the fact that your getting misfires should point to a larger issue.

When I was chasing down misfires in my car, which ended up being weak valve springs, I saw a few instances where bad torque converters/flex plates caused misfires for some other people

[zizouomar]

This is definitely a long shot, but the fact that your getting misfires should point to a larger issue.

When I was chasing down misfires in my car, which ended up being weak valve springs, I saw a few instances where bad torque converters/flex plates caused misfires for some other people

I called it a misfire because it behaves the same way. You press the gas pedal at lets say 70-80% and every time, in 3rd gear on D or 4th on S, the car accelerate but for a short moment the RPM falls and goes back up and you feel like it missed a stair and you have that horrendous power loss for a second. Really feels like when my N75 was failing on my 1.8t VW.

[J.kaseno]

What I noticed with my zf8 is that car seems to shift better under load.

Meaning:

The shifts are faster and way smoother if you gas consistently or more thru the shift vs letting off the throttle during or directly after the shift like is common in city driving.

Try getting to an open road, and banging the 1-2-3 at full WOT regardless of what rpm you shift at and see if there is any noticeable difference

My zf8 shifts reasonably smooth unless I am under high load. Occasionally pushing my car on the on-ramps it will shift up to about 5th before it hangs in high rpm before shifting down to 6th then to 7th. This is in "Sport" mode. Ive found after letting off the gas if i "blip" the throttle it will then upshift.. Not the smoothest though. Only way around this I have found was to shift myself durring those driving conditions.

Coming from a DSG I feel the zf8 is a huge improvement.. Nothing compares to a manual gearbox though. Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Traptalk]

lol you should have listed to the guy WAAAY back in post 2 ;)

My zf8 shifts reasonably smooth unless I am under high load. Occasionally pushing my car on the on-ramps it will shift up to about 5th before it hangs in high rpm before shifting down to 6th then to 7th. This is in "Sport" mode. Ive found after letting off the gas if i "blip" the throttle it will then upshift.. Not the smoothest though. Only way around this I have found was to shift myself durring those driving conditions.

Coming from a DSG I feel the zf8 is a huge improvement.. Nothing compares to a manual gearbox though. Just my thoughts on the subject.

I can’t stand driving in D or S mode in this. I only use manual mode with paddle shifters.

The stock tcu tuning is unbearable for me. My car tries to shift up as fast as possible. Coming from a dead stop I’ll be 8th by time I hit 45mph and then have absolutely no power readily available

[zizouomar]

I can’t stand driving in D or S mode in this. I only use manual mode with paddle shifters.

The stock tcu tuning is unbearable for me. My car tries to shift up as fast as possible. Coming from a dead stop I’ll be 8th by time I hit 45mph and then have absolutely no power readily available

Only time I can get tolerable shifts on manual mode is when I switch to manual from S and I shift near redline. If I use manual mode at lower RPMS, it launches you forward at each shift.