Timing chain stretch on 3.0T

[Waffles_s4]

Hi all,

I did a lot of research, so far I can see that timing chain stretch is more of an issue on previous models than the B8 S4, but I did see some people on here getting the P0016 and P0018 which indicates either a timing chain stretch, a sensor issue, or the tensionners being bad enough to cause even further chain stretch.

Currently, when my car is warm, I get 2.6xx on Bank 2 and 1.1xx on Bank 1.

I will try to change oil as frequently as possible to slow down the chain stretch, but I would like some feedback at which point should I look into changing all the chains / tensionners?

[Waffles_s4]

Am bumping by asking a couple of questions:

1. Anyone knows how to measure chain stretch physically on the 3.0T engine, assuming that the valve covers and timing covers are off?
On the 2.0T engine, there are two notches that are used to measure the chain, one on the intake camshaft, the other on the exhaust cam, and the distance is 12.X cm to be within specs.

2. Anyone knows which chains stretch exactly? Upper, middle, or center?

[TC_S4]

My car B8.5 warmed up, camshaft adjustment inlet phase 1 & 2: 0.375 degree. I have 115k km and changing oil every 7500km interval.

However, two friends that have B8, their camshaft adjustment inlet phase 1 & 2 are -47 degree and -48 degree. Does B8 have different interpretations than B8.5? cuz -47 seems very off the specs.

[Bartlett]

Hi all,

I did a lot of research, so far I can see that timing chain stretch is more of an issue on previous models than the B8 S4, but I did see some people on here getting the P0016 and P0018 which indicates either a timing chain stretch, a sensor issue, or the tensionners being bad enough to cause even further chain stretch.

Currently, when my car is warm, I get 2.6xx on Bank 2 and 1.1xx on Bank 1.

I will try to change oil as frequently as possible to slow down the chain stretch, but I would like some feedback at which point should I look into changing all the chains / tensionners?

Try logging these measuring values and sharing it in datazap like I did.

My car B8.5 warmed up, camshaft adjustment inlet phase 1 & 2: 0.375 degree. I have 115k km and changing oil every 7500km interval.

However, two friends that have B8, their camshaft adjustment inlet phase 1 & 2 are -47 degree and -48 degree. Does B8 have different interpretations than B8.5? cuz -47 seems very off the specs.

Could you and your friends log these measuring values?

[Waffles_s4]

Bartlett:

You have a B8, and the values reported by the ECU are not exactly the same than the B8,5.

For example, on my B8.5 I get the following:

camshaft adjustment inlet phase: 2.6 on bank 2 (yours is in the -47 to -48 range)
camshaft adjustment inlet phase: 1.1 on bank 1 (yours is in the -47 to -48 range)

camshaft adjustment inlet bank 1/2 specified: 127.8 degrees (same as yours)

Am not sure what do the cam_ofs values are for. Any idea

[sivletho]

Would a bad sensor give an incorrect reading?

My values when the car is warm are
B1 2.6
B2 6.8

I recently changed the upper guide and tensioner on driver side so maybe it’s a bad tensioner? Stretched chain? Or installed incorrectly?
It’s been 4 months since I replaced it the reason I’m looking into this is because I’m getting an irregular idle and vibrations. no misfires in advance measuring block, coils and plugs have been changed last year.


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[TC_S4]

Would a bad sensor give an incorrect reading?

My values when the car is warm are
B1 2.6
B2 6.8

I recently changed the upper guide and tensioner on driver side so maybe it’s a bad tensioner? Stretched chain? Or installed incorrectly?
It’s been 4 months since I replaced it the reason I’m looking into this is because I’m getting an irregular idle and vibrations. no misfires in advance measuring block, coils and plugs have been changed last year.


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Look like a bad tensioner, 6.8 degrees basically is over 12 teeth on your actual tensioner, I will go back to the shop who replaced it and have it fix again.

[Morritse]

Just logged my b8 with a b8.5 motor out of curiosity.

Everything was 0 across the board and bank1/2 inlet phase adjustment were both around -47-48°

[TC_S4]

Just logged my b8 with a b8.5 motor out of curiosity.

Everything was 0 across the board and bank1/2 inlet phase adjustment were both around -47-48°

Yeah, B8 have these kind of reading -47,-48° ish range. Never figure out why, I believe there are some kind of conversion.

[Fresh.S4]

what values are you guys checking on vcds?

[TC_S4]

what values are you guys checking on vcds?

Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 1
Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 2

[sivletho]

Look like a bad tensioner, 6.8 degrees basically is over 12 teeth on your actual tensioner, I will go back to the shop who replaced it and have it fix again.

Would the engine be running like crap at this state? It’s only on idle where it’s irregular but if I gun it it feels normal.
I actually did the replacement myself lol


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[TC_S4]

[QUOTE=sivletho;14434968]Would the engine be running like crap at this state? It’s only on idle where it’s irregular but if I gun it it feels normal.
I actually did the replacement myself lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOT

Initially, why did you replaced the tensioner? How many teeth were out on the old tensioner and what was the reading?

[sivletho]

[QUOTE=TC_S4;14435186]

Would the engine be running like crap at this state? It’s only on idle where it’s irregular but if I gun it it feels normal.
I actually did the replacement myself lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOT

Initially, why did you replaced the tensioner? How many teeth were out on the old tensioner and what was the reading?

I was getting a long rattle on cold start so I thought it was the tensioner but it might of been the broken upper guide since I had already bought the tensioner I decided to replace it.
Unfortunately I didn’t check the values before I changed the tensioner.
What do you mean by teeth?
Thanks for the response by the way


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[TC_S4]

[QUOTE=sivletho;14435378]

I was getting a long rattle on cold start so I thought it was the tensioner but it might of been the broken upper guide since I had already bought the tensioner I decided to replace it.
Unfortunately I didn’t check the values before I changed the tensioner.
What do you mean by teeth?
Thanks for the response by the way


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On the tensioner, marks(teeths) to see how far the tensioner apply tension to the chain. The OE tension should have 12 marks or around 6°. On the vcds ready each degree represent approximately 2 marks. So 6° you pretty much at the limit of your tensioner. It looks like the problem wasn’t your tensioner but the chain itself. Let put it that way, if at the beginning you’re hearing rattle on cold start due to a stretched chain, replacing another tension would change anything, the reading of the inlet should be the same, since the chain is still stretched. I think it’s the chain the culprit.

[sivletho]

[QUOTE=TC_S4;14435757]

On the tensioner, marks(teeths) to see how far the tensioner apply tension to the chain. The OE tension should have 12 marks or around 6°. On the vcds ready each degree represent approximately 2 marks. So 6° you pretty much at the limit of your tensioner. It looks like the problem wasn’t your tensioner but the chain itself. Let put it that way, if at the beginning you’re hearing rattle on cold start due to a stretched chain, replacing another tension would change anything, the reading of the inlet should be the same, since the chain is still stretched. I think it’s the chain the culprit.

Damn I should of done more research I would of checked the marks on the tensioner,
the only thing is there is no more rattling on start up so I think that’s good?
but if the readings are accurate then for sure it has to be stretched chain.
I’m Gona try and clean / swap sensors to confirm the readings are correct.


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[TC_S4]

[QUOTE=sivletho;14435830]

Damn I should of done more research I would of checked the marks on the tensioner,
the only thing is there is no more rattling on start up so I think that’s good?
but if the readings are accurate then for sure it has to be stretched chain.
I’m Gona try and clean / swap sensors to confirm the readings are correct.


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Did you swapped an original Audi/VW tensioner or you got an aftermarket tensioner? The original tensioner have 12 marks, some aftermarket tension are longer, so will have few extra marks. If you swap an aftermarket tensioner that’s longer, it’s normal that you will heard no rattle, for now at least.

Swap sensors to confirm the reading is a good idea.

When you changed the upper guide and the tensioner, what parts did you have to removed to have access? Did you have to lift the engine, drop the subframe?

[sivletho]

[QUOTE=TC_S4;14435843]

Did you swapped an original Audi/VW tensioner or you got an aftermarket tensioner? The original tensioner have 12 marks, some aftermarket tension are longer, so will have few extra marks. If you swap an aftermarket tensioner that’s longer, it’s normal that you will heard no rattle, for now at least.

Swap sensors to confirm the reading is a good idea.

When you changed the upper guide and the tensioner, what parts did you have to removed to have access? Did you have to lift the engine, drop the subframe?

I swap to part number 06E109217AJ brand is from ina according to fcp there oem
the piston did seem skinnier and longer. I used to hate the rattle on start up now I love the quite startup.
Yes I will start with the sensor swap first and update the tread.

I have a 2011 A6 3.0t
I had to disconnect and untangle the o2 sensor and egr wires like 4 in total
and remove the egr/secondary air injection valve/combi valve that blocks the bottom bolts for the timing cover it’s a tight space but definitely a doable diy project especially if you have the right tools I’m not sure if it’s the same for an s4


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[cuerna]

I have a 2012 A6 3.0T

With VCDs I got these:

Camshaft adjustment Bank 1 inlet phase: -46.5
Camshaft adjustment Bank 2 inlet phase: -46.1

Does it sound normal?

About 1 seconds chain rattle in the morning then goes away. Miles: 120k

[raceshop147]

Does anyone have the procedure to check this via the VCDS?

I have the scan tool and haven’t figured out how to do this check yet

Thanks in advance for the support!!


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[LYKUNO]

Does anyone have the procedure to check this via the VCDS?

I have the scan tool and haven’t figured out how to do this check yet

Thanks in advance for the support!!


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If you have the VCDS tool (not a generic version) you can go to the Ross-Tech Forum for assistance (including product support, how-to's and tips, etc.). There are experts from both the US and EU, etc., who are responsive and can help you.

[cuerna]

Does anyone have the procedure to check this via the VCDS?

I have the scan tool and haven’t figured out how to do this check yet

Thanks in advance for the support!!


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Is under
Engine>
Channel 93


Or (protocol: UDS)
Engine >
Advance measuring values>
Camshaft adjustment inlet phase bank 1
Camshaft adjustment inlet phase bank 2

[raceshop147]

Is under
Engine>
Channel 93


Or (protocol: UDS)
Engine >
Advance measuring values>
Camshaft adjustment inlet phase bank 1
Camshaft adjustment inlet phase bank 2

Hello

My values at idle were

ENG103031, Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 1, -750°
ENG99898, Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 2, 0.750°





When I rev’d it up they changed a bit…what is the tolerance supposed to be ?




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[vtraudt]

What is the acceptable cam adjustment range for the B8 3.0T? (Great/OK/Service Soon/Change Now)?

- - - Updated - - -

And while at it: what is the reported service cost range for the timing chain service?

[MSq5]

What is the acceptable cam adjustment range for the B8 3.0T? (Great/OK/Service Soon/Change Now)?

- - - Updated - - -

And while at it: what is the reported service cost range for the timing chain service?

If you want to replace the chains, tensioners and guides, it can be spendy. The engine must be pulled since everything is on the back of the engine up against the firewall. If you are just wanting to do the guides or tensioners, might as well do the chains, too, as the added cost of the chains is modest compared to having to go back in again.

Expect $5,000-$6000 USD if done by a reputable shop with proper tools and experience.

[vtraudt]

Anyone have the 'tolerances' or limits for both values?

ENG103031, Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 1, -750°
ENG99898, Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 2, 0.750°

[vtraudt]

2013 A5 3.0T:

Checked yesterday, warm engine:

Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 1 = 1.5 degree
Camshaft adjustment: inlet phase: bank 2 = 3.0 degree


Now: what does that indicate?

Still haven't found any 'good' input as to what the numbers should be, or if they indicate ANYTHING.