Is a tuned q5 3.0 the same as a tuned sq5?

[flyfishing]

So I assume the following:

Stage 1 q5 3.0 is faster than stock SQ5 (I'm not referring to B9s which I don't know much about). That is correct rt?

Is a stage 1 3.0 q5 the same as a stage 1 sq5? I ask b/c APR shows same power / tq output for both stage 1s. I am guessing SQ5 is still faster b/c of different factors like transmission and other minor engine changes.

[q5 dave]

There are too many threads about this already...


the Q5 is better

[flyfishing]

If you point me to a thread then I'll look at it, but I searched q5 vs sq5 and could not find one.

[djn876]

There are numerous Q5 vs SQ5 threads out there in this forum. But yes, the engine of a 3.0T Q5 is effectively the same as an SQ5. Both tunes by the same tuner will be basically the same.

The trans gearing may be a little different between the two which could have an impact if you were to race the two next to one another.

I'm not going to touch the debate between which one is the 'better' one. That's solely up to the opinion of the end user.

[eruben123]

There are numerous Q5 vs SQ5 threads out there in this forum. But yes, the engine of a 3.0T Q5 is effectively the same as an SQ5. Both tunes by the same tuner will be basically the same.

The trans gearing may be a little different between the two which could have an impact if you were to race the two next to one another.

I'm not going to touch the debate between which one is the 'better' one. That's solely up to the opinion of the end user.

The engines will make the same power with the same tune. The 3.0 Q5 factory trans tune is VERY much neutered compared to the SQ5 factory trans tune, which would definitely have an impact if you were to race them next to each other. Once the TCU is tuned as well as the ECU, they are one and the same.

[flyfishing]

The engines will make the same power with the same tune. The 3.0 Q5 factory trans tune is VERY much neutered compared to the SQ5 factory trans tune, which would definitely have an impact if you were to race them next to each other. Once the TCU is tuned as well as the ECU, they are one and the same.

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I thought the 3.0 was similar to sq5 like s7 was similar to rs7 (but with bigger turbos) and other engine changes.

Guess it's time to throw in TCU tune and my wife has almost a sq5 :)

[97B518TQM]

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I thought the 3.0 was similar to sq5 like s7 was similar to rs7 (but with bigger turbos) and other engine changes.

Guess it's time to throw in TCU tune and my wife has almost a sq5 :)

Not a valid analogy. The engine in the rs7 is quite different from that in the s7/s6, not just the turbos. The engines in the q5 and sq5 are practically the same on the inside.


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[MSq5]

Not a valid analogy. The engine in the rs7 is quite different from that in the s7/s6, not just the turbos. The engines in the q5 and sq5 are practically the same on the inside.


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Not merely practically the same internally. The 3.0T engines in the Q5 and SQ 5 are internally identical. Externally as well. Exactly identical. Only difference in the engines is the tune. Aftermarket tunes make the engines identical, tune-for-tune.

[choppstixxx]

I think I said/compared this in the past something to the effect that you arrive at the same destination, but leave from two different starting points. The Q5 3.0T and SQ5 share basically the same engine with a different OEM tune. Any aftermarket tunes will get them the same hp/tq output #endthread

[q5 dave]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...pect-in-gains?

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...t=tuned+q5+sq5

[flyfishing]

I found a good thread https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ghlight=q5+sq5

[friedliver]

Just for completeness there is an additional cooler behind the driver-side fog light in the SQ5 that the Q5 does not have.

[SnowmanMafia]

Just for completeness there is an additional cooler behind the driver-side fog light in the SQ5 that the Q5 does not have.

Right but it really doesn't matter until someone goes dual pulley.

[BG SQ5]

The engines will make the same power with the same tune. The 3.0 Q5 factory trans tune is VERY much neutered compared to the SQ5 factory trans tune, which would definitely have an impact if you were to race them next to each other. Once the TCU is tuned as well as the ECU, they are one and the same.

*All AMAX mapping is the same on the stock tunes. So, if you lined them up for a drag race, the trans tuning would have no impact.

Just for completeness there is an additional cooler behind the driver-side fog light in the SQ5 that the Q5 does not have.

Right but it really doesn't matter until someone goes dual pulley.

It's more like the opposite. The additional cooler helps at stock (literally engineered specifically for the extra boost of the SQ vs Q5 3.0T) and stage 1 levels for sure. It's once you get to stage 2 and definitely dual pulley that there's so much extra heat that the little extra cooler more or less becomes negligible.

IIRC on the last thread I saw on this the IE guys confirmed that the TCU (along with tune) was different in the SQ than the Q.

The trans tune in the SQ, stock, is one of the more aggressive automatic transmission OEM tunes I've experienced. Not bad for a dad mobile.

Correct- just about everything expect for the AMAX maps are different. I typically change 5x as much stuff on Q5 trans tunes compared to the SQ5 tunes.

If I got epl tune, I would assume it is more aggressive than oem sq5 tcu tune?

Not in the sense you're thinking. The WOT shift points (and some part throttle) are higher than a stock SQ5, but virtually everything else remains stock based on what I've seen. Therefore, a stock SQ5 will shift firmer and quicker than a EPL tuned Q5 3.0T. You have to go with a HP Tuners solution to get into that level of trans tune, especially if you want your downshifts and part throttle maps all addressed for both schedules and shift timing and pressures.

EPL is mum about what they changed. It does have higher full throttle shift point set at 7,000 rpm compared to stock 6,300. That, alone, is a big improvement. I don’t know if they changed torque converter stall speed in AMAX mode. A good TCU tune will raise that to somewhere between 2,600 and 2,800 rpm. There may be other enhancements. You’ll have to ask those who use that tune and pay attention to details.

It appears that EPL applies a global multiplier of about 1.11 (11% increase) to all the upshift tables...regardless of mode, throttle position, etc... I think it's telling that it's 1.5 yrs later, and they still have never come out and said exactly what modes, particular behaviors, or shift situations they do or do not change. It may be because they know others can see the changes with the proper hardware and software, so it's better just to keep quite and collect people's money.

[joe916]

No wonder they're always running sales 😂😂😂

[KillerQuattro]

It appears that EPL applies a global multiplier of about 1.11 (11% increase) to all the upshift tables...regardless of mode, throttle position, etc... I think it's telling that it's 1.5 yrs later, and they still have never come out and said exactly what modes, particular behaviors, or shift situations they do or do not change. It may be because they know others can see the changes with the proper hardware and software, so it's better just to keep quite and collect people's money.

This^^^. I have asked EPL so many times for any additional information on their TCU tune, and all I've gotten from Chris is the same line.. "The TCU has faster shifts, better shifts and up to 7k RPM shift points. We do the least amount of changes to D. The shift points are all based on throttle input just like stock".

Well, not everyone even wants to ride up in the 7k RPM range anyway, as it is especially difficult in the city to even get a road that long without traffic. (I would prefer short 3-4K RPM shifts, right in the torque range, to keep it sporty at say 50% throttle.) So without changing behaviors or shift situations, this seems like a huge waste of money for what I am wanting to modify. I want to IMPROVE the way things shift, AND have some control as to WHEN, WHY, and HOW the trans decides to shift based on pedal input.

Definitely still thinking of getting the HP Tuners setup and working with BG. With things right now being so unstable, and working for a retail establishment, I am saving all my pennies at the moment, just to be safe..

[MSq5]

*All AMAX mapping is the same on the stock tunes. So, if you lined them up for a drag race, the trans tuning would have no impact.




It's more like the opposite. The additional cooler helps at stock (literally engineered specifically for the extra boost of the SQ vs Q5 3.0T) and stage 1 levels for sure. It's once you get to stage 2 and definitely dual pulley that there's so much extra heat that the little extra cooler more or less becomes negligible.



Correct- just about everything expect for the AMAX maps are different. I typically change 5x as much stuff on Q5 trans tunes compared to the SQ5 tunes.



Not in the sense you're thinking. The WOT shift points (and some part throttle) are higher than a stock SQ5, but virtually everything else remains stock based on what I've seen. Therefore, a stock SQ5 will shift firmer and quicker than a EPL tuned Q5 3.0T. You have to go with a HP Tuners solution to get into that level of trans tune, especially if you want your downshifts and part throttle maps all addressed for both schedules and shift timing and pressures.



It appears that EPL applies a global multiplier of about 1.11 (11% increase) to all the upshift tables...regardless of mode, throttle position, etc... I think it's telling that it's 1.5 yrs later, and they still have never come out and said exactly what modes, particular behaviors, or shift situations they do or do not change. It may be because they know others can see the changes with the proper hardware and software, so it's better just to keep quite and collect people's money.

Indeed, it makes no sense to me for EPL to scale upshift rpm up +11% across the board in all tables. You were kind enough to suggest to me that the higher upshift point only makes sense at full throttle or very near it. Scaling part throttle up 11% is just going to burn more fuel for no real benefit, it seems to me. The map I run currently upshifts to 7,000 only at full throttle and leaves the lower throttle positions alone for upshifts. Another map I play with has the scaling at 70% throttle and higher, but I donÂ’t even see much use in that. Maybe useful in some road racing conditions where feathering the throttle above 6,300 rpm without an upshift would have some practical use, but throttle position would still be quite high, would it not?

I get it that some, perhaps most users want a plug and play, flash and done solution and find EPL’s bundled combo packages convenient. But, you’d think they should be able to acquire and read via HPT some of the more advanced TCU tunes and make some basic improvements for their customers. They have been good about revising their ECU tunes based on submitted logs. No reason for them not to improve that TCU tune based on customer feedback.

[flyfishing]

I didn’t say it was analogy. I said I thought it was like s7 and rs7 difference.


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[choppstixxx]

I didn’t say it was analogy. I said I thought it was like s7 and rs7 difference.
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What you should pull from this thread you so graciously started is that the Q5 3.0T and SQ5 will output the same amount of hp/tq with the same aftermarket tune.

[flyfishing]

What you should pull from this thread you so graciously started is that the Q5 3.0T and SQ5 will output the same amount of hp/tq with the same aftermarket tune.

I did. Thanks.

[RoofRails]

If there was truly anything to tuned a Q5 being quicker than a tuned SQ5 it would have more to do with the SQ5s big heavy rims paired to big heavy rotors than any difference in the gearing. I have seen enough evidence on this forum to debunk the different final drive ratio theory. There is definitely sportier mapping in the SQ5s ZF8. BG SQ5 copied the SQ5s shift mapping over to the tune he wrote me for my Q and I could definitely feel it.

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[flyfishing]

If there was truly anything to tuned a Q5 being quicker than a tuned SQ5 it would have more to do with the SQ5s big heavy rims paired to big heavy rotors than any difference in the gearing. I have seen enough evidence on this forum to debunk the different final drive ratio theory. There is definitely sportier mapping in the SQ5s ZF8. BG SQ5 copied the SQ5s shift mapping over to the tune he wrote me for my Q and I could definitely feel it.

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Who is this fella and what does he charge for TCU? You flash it at home?

[RoofRails]

Who is this fella and what does he charge for TCU? You flash it at home?

Yes you flash at home. BG SQ5 is a member on this board that tunes these ZF8s . He tends to go into hiding once the local dragway shut downs for the season... LOL! You buy the HP Tuners MPVi2 dongle for 300. Buy 200 worth of credit to allow you to download and write to your TCU. Send him your base tune and a fee that you agree to. He makes all the adjustments and emails it back to you. It's way easier then you might think. As far as making these vehicles fast it's the second most effective mod next to a ECU tune. Send him a PM if you are interested.

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[scottst]

IIRC on the last thread I saw on this the IE guys confirmed that the TCU (along with tune) was different in the SQ than the Q.

The trans tune in the SQ, stock, is one of the more aggressive automatic transmission OEM tunes I've experienced. Not bad for a dad mobile.

[flyfishing]

If I got epl tune, I would assume it is more aggressive than oem sq5 tcu tune?


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[MSq5]

If I got epl tune, I would assume it is more aggressive than oem sq5 tcu tune?


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EPL is mum about what they changed. It does have higher full throttle shift point set at 7,000 rpm compared to stock 6,300. That, alone, is a big improvement. I don’t know if they changed torque converter stall speed in AMAX mode. A good TCU tune will raise that to somewhere between 2,600 and 2,800 rpm. There may be other enhancements. You’ll have to ask those who use that tune and pay attention to details.

[vdubjetta02]

I enjoy my APR SQ5, that is all I have to contribute here....

[Bezlar]

You guys are funny talking about which 2 ton suv is faster than the other.


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[RoofRails]

You guys are funny talking about which 2 ton suv is faster than the other.


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I think it's great that there is a enthusiast community out there this robust for a 2 ton SUV that is on the verge of putting down a 10 sec 1/4 Mile.

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[Bezlar]

I think it's great that there is a enthusiast community out there this robust for a 2 ton SUV that is on the verge of putting down a 10 sec 1/4 Mile.

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I think it’s great also. Just funny.


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[flyfishing]

My heavier stage 3 s7 will smoke your rs3 and carry more stuff and people.

I find that funny :)

I think it’s great also. Just funny.


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[Burdman]

My heavier stage 3 s7 will smoke your rs3 and carry more stuff and people.

I find that funny :)

And a stage 3 RS3 would smoke your stage 3 S7 whats your point exactly?

[Bezlar]

My heavier stage 3 s7 will smoke your rs3 and carry more stuff and people.

I find that funny :)

Wow. I missed this one too. You think your stage 3 s7 would smoke my rs3?well that’s great for you. I’ll prob loose sleep now.


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[scottst]

I think it’s great also. Just funny.


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I'll bite. Happy we're providing entertainment though your comments are borderline mocking which isn't cool.

Enjoy your golf. Glass houses.

[Bezlar]

I'll bite. Happy we're providing entertainment though your comments are borderline mocking which isn't cool.

Enjoy your golf. Glass houses.

Loved my golf. I’ve had two different ones over the years. I’m thinking you have my intentions wrong. I love the that the sq5’s are so fast with mods. Just funny how most people try to shave weight when going fast and we are starting with such a heavy suv. For the record I do own one of these pigs. I’m more into the looks but if I decide to go crazy it’s nice you guys are figuring out how to. But not much happing with my b9 in terms of go fast goodies yet. Tunes are coming.


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[25th AE GTi]

I'll bite. Happy we're providing entertainment though your comments are borderline mocking which isn't cool.

Enjoy your golf. Glass houses.

I guess its all relative perspective. I agree 100% with him, rest of you Q5 owners seem awfully sensitive. I'm a performance guy but every time I click on this forum I grin because its filled with people trying to push their bloated cars to the limit. Personally I don't find his comments offensive at all but maybe I'm just a little more laid back.

[MSq5]

You guys are funny talking about which 2 ton suv is faster than the other.


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I guess you know that an RS7 is heavier than an SQ/Q5.

Let us know when your RS3 gets into the low 11s. One of us will probably find high 10s soon.

We don’t all like to drive shoeboxes, and do often need the utility of a larger vehicle with a hatchback.

[Bezlar]

I guess you know that an RS7 is heavier than an SQ/Q5.

Let us know when your RS3 gets into the low 11s. One of us will probably find high 10s soon.

We don’t all like to drive shoeboxes, and do often need the utility of a larger vehicle with a hatchback.

I missed this post. I didn’t know we where in competition. Thought we all drive the same brand? You guys are too uptight. I never once degrade the sq5? Fuck I drive one.


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[MSq5]

I missed this post. I didn’t know we where in competition. Thought we all drive the same brand? You guys are too uptight. I never once degrade the sq5? Fuck I drive one.


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You jumped into a thread about comparing the 3.0T SQ and Q5 vehicles with this:

“You guys are funny talking about which 2 ton suv is faster than the other.”

We seek a combination of daily driver utility and blistering quick acceleration. Nothing strange or funny about that, sir. Seems quite reasonable. Really quick SUVs have become quite popular.

BTW, while we will never be as nimble as a little RS3, we do practically everything else just as well. C&D or R&T magazine reported that the RS3 can stop from 80 mph in 204 feet. Impressive until you read in their test of the B8 SQ5 that it stops from 80 in 200 feet.

Now, about RS3 towing, cargo capacity and rear seat room. Still asking.

[joe916]

You jumped into a thread about comparing the 3.0T SQ and Q5 vehicles with this:

“You guys are funny talking about which 2 ton suv is faster than the other.”

We seek a combination of daily driver utility and blistering quick acceleration. Nothing strange or funny about that, sir. Seems quite reasonable. Really quick SUVs have become quite popular.

BTW, while we will never be as nimble as a little RS3, we do practically everything else just as well. C&D or R&T magazine reported that the RS3 can stop from 80 mph in 204 feet. Impressive until you read in their test of the B8 SQ5 that it stops from 80 in 200 feet.

Now, about RS3 towing, cargo capacity and rear seat room. Still asking.

there is no towing for a rs3 leave the guy alone lol he just stepped in the wrong group lets all calm down we all drive the same brand