B6 S4 - Tiptronic to manual swap

[Dondbg]

Looked inside the cylinder and the piston tops are covered with crap.

Dragged the second one in to the garage. Let’s see if this dude is the winner.



Frack that was heavy

[Atomic Avant]

damn, that sucks to hear. how was the old engine that made you want to compression check it?

[Dondbg]

damn, that sucks to hear. how was the old engine that made you want to compression check it?

I would say it was running smother but it rattles on warm start as well cold (not a concern)
And it was a daily driver car not as the Red one which was parked for I don’t know how long plus it is 70k km younger
Need to figure a way to mount the starter, without the trans the bolt is too long, heading to the hw store ....

[Dondbg]

Hooked up the starter to the 160K km engine





This is the results, the engine was sitting for 6 months outside, black is the wet readings, intake manifold is off




And this is the 230k km engine, blue is wet



I got higher number from the engine with higher mileage and same story was sitting for a similar amount of the time.

I’m using a cheap chines testing kit, I tight it by hand.


What do you think guys - I’m leaning towards the high mileage engine due to the higher compression figures.

Both engines ran fine and smooth - I don’t know anything about oil consumption but surly both didn’t blow smoke

[Atomic Avant]

the second set of numbers (blue) look much better!

[Dondbg]

Ya but look at #5 & 7.

Been thinking and I believe the low KMs engine with low compression was over heated and the rings got fucked ? No coolant / oil mix tho. OR crap build up as Vinny suggested on the valves and they are not sealing well - as this engine was running sweet ..... Leak down test should tell, don’t have the kit, will buy one and do it since I have a compressor.

[Dondbg]

Got two leak down test kits one worse than the other.

Low mileage engine leaks a lot from the crank case as well as two cylinders leaks to adjacent cylinder, that’s bad rings and head gasket (?)

The High mileage one leaks from the valves, may be not sealing well due to carbon build up and one cylinder a bit from the crank case .

Anyway all that with bad tester which can not supply more than 30 psi, have ordered one from Amazon and will run one last test before I decide, most probably will pull the head clean clean everything and replace the valve seals, will all Victor Reinz kit:

1x Cylinder Head Gasket left 079103383BB
1x Cylinder Head Gasket right 079103383BA
20x Cylinder head Bolts 077103385D
2x Exhaust manifold gasket 077253039C
40x Valve stem seal 036109675A

[Dondbg]

I have modified the carbon fibre tip gear shifter surround to fit manual, I’m pretty pleased with the results.




What I have done is separated the plastic frame that the gear gaiter clips in to from the manual shifter surround I have



Separated the alu trim and used it as stencil to modify the carbon fibre tip trim as follows



Then using a rotary tool with engraving tip traced a line making sure I reached the alu plate, this important so the plastic won’t chip when you start cutting



Drilled small holes all around and the used a jigsaw after that.



Finally put the chrome trim, and clipped it to the backing frame I removed earlier



Applied some epoxy on few spots just to be safe

The quality of the trim material is so strong I wonder why the timing guides are like shit !

[Dondbg]

Installed rear diff with new eBay mount (speed line) I know I’m going to regret it but the OE was cracked so this should do for now.

[Dondbg]

The car was giving error re the level sensor and sure enough it’s corroded and been repaired,




so I went to the junkyard (my back yard) and grabbed a better connector




Looks better now

[Dondbg]

Fixing the classic bits

Replaced glove box handle



Headlight switch cover




Replaced the foam bits in the axels covers, not sure what is it for but I did it anyway

[Atomic Avant]

Nice progress,

I will have to trim my carbon trim as well. Great pictures on the process!

[Dondbg]

New leak down tester arrived and ran test on all cylinders, to me, the results are really good except for #1, no matter what I do it will not seal



#1 even looks full of carbon build up which could explain why valves are not sealing



Should I just slam the timing kit in and done or that one cylinder is a concern?

Worth to mention #1 sealed well in the first attempt, that’s the engine was sitting for 2 weeks but never managed to again!

[Dondbg]

Some cleaning to increase HP


Best feeling - I have done that using pressure washer inside the garage ! Because we have water restrictions and the law says no hose outside, anyway 20L of water did the job



And more






And I have doubled up the insulation in this spot since I have an extra identical piece from some previous S4 I wrecked

[Dondbg]

Decided to go with the high mileage engine since it got better compression and low leak



I will be removing the heads, de- carbon and replace valve stem seals, have ordered what I need and it is on the way

[Dondbg]

I have noticed the crank pulley is not the same for manual and tip



Didn’t expect that - they weight exactly the same and got the same part number, I guess the weight distribution is not the same...

Will move it to across

[Gosser]

Nice work on cleaning that motor! Its pretty satisfying working with clean parts, especially when they clean up looking like new. Thats weird about the crank pulleys.

[AlexB6S4]

Decided to go with the high mileage engine since it got better compression and low leak



I will be removing the heads, de- carbon and replace valve stem seals, have ordered what I need and it is on the way

Since your pulling the heads:

Pull the piston’s/rods. Replace the rod bearings with Glyco part # 01-3841/6 STD (buy 2 box’s). Make sure you mark all the pistons for their appropriate bore. Mark the clocking location of the 1st and 2nd ring on each piston. Remove the rings and keep them with their associated piston. De-carbon all your ringlands so that you remove all the carbon that is filling the void between the rings and pistons so that compression can be built up again behind the rings which is what seals them against the bores when the chamber is under compression. Reinstall your used rings to their appropriate pistons and clocked correctly. Run conventional oil for 10k miles so the rings actually finish seating because they never did due to the car being in synthetic from 0 miles.

Enjoy a 4.2 that does not eat oil.


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[Dondbg]

Since your pulling the heads:

Pull the piston’s/rods. Replace the rod bearings with Glyco part # 01-3841/6 STD (buy 2 box’s). Make sure you mark all the pistons for their appropriate bore. Mark the clocking location of the 1st and 2nd ring on each piston. Remove the rings and keep them with their associated piston. De-carbon all your ringlands so that you remove all the carbon that is filling the void between the rings and pistons so that compression can be built up again behind the rings which is what seals them against the bores when the chamber is under compression. Reinstall your used rings to their appropriate pistons and clocked correctly. Run conventional oil for 10k miles so the rings actually finish seating because they never did due to the car being in synthetic from 0 miles.

Enjoy a 4.2 that does not eat oil.


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Going deeper .... all started with tip conversion :)
Well what is stopping me is the $ and hands on experience - got you guys and google should tick / cover the experience bit, now for what you suggested the $ is not much, Q’s:

Part 021105701B is not listed as compatible with B6/7 S4’s

Why you didn’t suggest to replace the rings ?

The oil you are suggesting will it not cause some other damaged if I ran it for 10k since it is missing all the additives ..... that the synthetic got ?

[AlexB6S4]

Going deeper .... all started with tip conversion :)
Well what is stopping me is the $ and hands on experience - got you guys and google should tick / cover the experience bit, now for what you suggested the $ is not much, Q’s:

Part 021105701B is not listed as compatible with B6/7 S4’s

Why you didn’t suggest to replace the rings ?

The oil you are suggesting will it not cause some other damaged if I ran it for 10k since it is missing all the additives ..... that the synthetic got ?

Here is the thread for information on the bearings. They work just fine, I have spent a bit of time trying to find affordable solutions for people. I have mine and many other engines running bearings with this specification.

B6 & B7 S4 4.2 BHF / BBK Alternate Rod Bearing Option
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=905286

I did not suggest to replace the rings as it is most likely not needed. If you asked me this a few months ago, I would have told you to buy my piston rings and throw them in. After a lengthy chat with a engineer who has far more experience than myself and most others I know with Alusil engine’s, you can say I have been enlightened. Here is the breakdown of what I have learned:

Our bores have been prepared from the factory with the appropriate machines and processes to microscopically wear down the aluminum and expose the silicone within the bores. The cast nitride coated rings that are supplied by the factory are not hard enough to wear down the silicone and will not touch the aluminum as it is microscopically beneath the exposed silicon which allows oil to stick to the pores for lubrication. The only thing that is really worn down is the rings and piston skirt coating. Once you clean the ring lands in your pistons, you can then measure clearances to check if they are within spec. They will most likely be within spec.

I say that it is not necessary to change the rings, because they have probably never been properly broken in to begin with. The reason being is that synthetic oil comes factory on these engines and all subsequent oil changes with owners have most likely been synthetic as well. There is nothing wrong with synthetic, in fact it is amazing for reducing wear. The problem is that it is too perfect and will not allow the rings to properly seat and if you measure the rings, they will most likely be very close to factory spec.

The problem with not seating rings is that it allows blow by in both directions. Oil is being blown up into the combustion chamber under vacuum, and gas is being blown down into the oil under compression. When oil gets blown in the combustion chamber, it creates massive carbon build up. The tops of your pistons will most likely be caked in carbon, as well as your ringlangs from all the blow-by getting burned. The problem lies in carbon building up in the ringlands primarily. The more carbon that is built up, equals to less open space that is between the rings and the piston. When you no longer have open space between the rings and the piston, pressure cannot form behind the rings and push the rings against the bores to create a seal between the chamber and crankcase. This will lead to your oil getting diluted by gas and your combustion chambers burning loads of oil and smoking it out the tailpipe.

A easy fix, is to remove the carbon buildup on the ringlands (which is excessive on these engines), reassemble, and continue the break in process. Use conventional oil that is not loaded with additives to continue the process which should have been done in the first place in seating your rings. I recommend Castrol GTX. It will not harm your engine. Change the oil every 3-4k miles while using conventional as it breaks down faster. After you feel that the break in process is complete (I suggest 10k miles on a used engine with un prepped bores) switch back over to synthetic to take advantage of its wear protection.

I totally understand that many may disagree with this and that I may have even not explained it as well as it was to myself. And that is fine. If you really want to re-prep your bores and re-ring your stock engine. Let me know, I sell everything you need. Even the factory rings with a spring loaded oil ring that Audi buys from Mahle that no one can get. I do not mind selling stuff.

Exceptions are if your bores have excessive scoring/wear or if your rings are out of spec.

Here is my thread on prepping bores when I went to forged internals if you want to do if:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Engine-Part-2

If preparing the bores and re-ringing, I have been told to do a 15k-20k mile break in on conventional oil. This information only applies to Alusil engine’s/bores as iron bores are rather easy to seat rings.



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[Dondbg]

Nice work on cleaning that motor! Its pretty satisfying working with clean parts, especially when they clean up looking like new. Thats weird about the crank pulleys.

Thanks - yea at least won’t use gloves when install

I can’t find anything about man and tip pulleys being different - of well I’m so glad I didn’t sell this engine

[Dondbg]

Here is the thread for information on the bearings. They work just fine, I have spent a bit of time trying to find affordable solutions for people. I have mine and many other engines running bearings with this specification.

B6 & B7 S4 4.2 BHF / BBK Alternate Rod Bearing Option
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=905286

I did not suggest to replace the rings as it is most likely not needed. If you asked me this a few months ago, I would have told you to buy my piston rings and throw them in. After a lengthy chat with a engineer who has far more experience than myself and most others I know with Alusil engine’s, you can say I have been enlightened. Here is the breakdown of what I have learned:

Our bores have been prepared from the factory with the appropriate machines and processes to microscopically wear down the aluminum and expose the silicone within the bores. The cast nitride coated rings that are supplied by the factory are not hard enough to wear down the silicone and will not touch the aluminum as it is microscopically beneath the exposed silicon which allows oil to stick to the pores for lubrication. The only thing that is really worn down is the rings and piston skirt coating. Once you clean the ring lands in your pistons, you can then measure clearances to check if they are within spec. They will most likely be within spec.

I say that it is not necessary to change the rings, because they have probably never been properly broken in to begin with. The reason being is that synthetic oil comes factory on these engines and all subsequent oil changes with owners have most likely been synthetic as well. There is nothing wrong with synthetic, in fact it is amazing for reducing wear. The problem is that it is too perfect and will not allow the rings to properly seat and if you measure the rings, they will most likely be very close to factory spec.

The problem with not seating rings is that it allows blow by in both directions. Oil is being blown up into the combustion chamber under vacuum, and gas is being blown down into the oil under compression. When oil gets blown in the combustion chamber, it creates massive carbon build up. The tops of your pistons will most likely be caked in carbon, as well as your ringlangs from all the blow-by getting burned. The problem lies in carbon building up in the ringlands primarily. The more carbon that is built up, equals to less open space that is between the rings and the piston. When you no longer have open space between the rings and the piston, pressure cannot form behind the rings and push the rings against the bores to create a seal between the chamber and crankcase. This will lead to your oil getting diluted by gas and your combustion chambers burning loads of oil and smoking it out the tailpipe.

A easy fix, is to remove the carbon buildup on the ringlands (which is excessive on these engines), reassemble, and continue the break in process. Use conventional oil that is not loaded with additives to continue the process which should have been done in the first place in seating your rings. I recommend Castrol GTX. It will not harm your engine. Change the oil every 3-4k miles while using conventional as it breaks down faster. After you feel that the break in process is complete (I suggest 10k miles on a used engine with un prepped bores) switch back over to synthetic to take advantage of its wear protection.

I totally understand that many may disagree with this and that I may have even not explained it as well as it was to myself. And that is fine. If you really want to re-prep your bores and re-ring your stock engine. Let me know, I sell everything you need. Even the factory rings with a spring loaded oil ring that Audi buys from Mahle that no one can get. I do not mind selling stuff.

Exceptions are if your bores have excessive scoring/wear or if your rings are out of spec.

Here is my thread on prepping bores when I went to forged internals if you want to do if:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Engine-Part-2

If preparing the bores and re-ringing, I have been told to do a 15k-20k mile break in on conventional oil. This information only applies to Alusil engine’s/bores as iron bores are rather easy to seat rings.



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Thanks Alex for all the details - didn’t know all that re running conventional oil and I wonder why Audi doesn’t do that ?

Will pull and see how things looks down there and decide.

Thanks again man!

[Dondbg]

Added more HP

Was full of rust so sanded and used the only high temp colour I have sitting in the garage



Bolted the manual subframe and put wheels back on, will put it on wheel dollies as I need to make some space in the garage to park a donor S4 I have to remove the DPs as I sold them - need some cash to feed my project.

By the time I’m done the stuff I ordered (valve seals, head gasket ...etc) should be here so I can go back to work on the engine.

I have bought H&R springs with KONI yellows



and complete new wheel setup Q5 speed line 20” ET38, this should give a nice push outwards.



Dressed pirelli pzero 245’s I got them for cheap

[allroadmark]

The front pulleys are the same, the holes on the front that are in different locations are balancing holes.


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[Dondbg]

Then I think I should stick with the one that this engine came with OR the one from the manual donor car ?

Reading what just wrote it make no sense but gotta ask :)

[Dondbg]

Got the other wrecked s4 in to the garage let it Idle for a while (it Idle’s rough) and decided to do compression test and I was delighted to see the following numbers



Done leak down and all is good



Scanned it and this is what I got




Looks like a bad mechanical adjuster as as soon I rev it it settles, Vinny believes it is bad adjuster and I think it is, will remove the VCs and look and see if I can fit the cam lock tool on the cam shafts easily if that worked then and I can’t believe It but YES going to pull the third engine so far to get my S4 going lol.

I have canceled the valve stems etc order

[Dondbg]

Going with the third engine due to the awesome numbers, will pull it out this week, it jumped time, the cams are 30 degrees off



And sure is, that’s when the crank on TDC




And this is when the cams on TDC




Not sure what I will find out once I remove the timing covers but this looks gross




So tempted to pressure wash it hahahaha

So a third BBK will join the party

[All_Black_A4]

Those cams look like they're in the same position as mine where when I pulled the old engine from the car.
Here's what I found once the main cover was pulled off.



And here's all that's left of the 2 guides that are missing



Haven't found the rest yet

Dropped a borescope down in all cylinders and didn't see any piston-valve contact and the valves all look straight.
Will try and source a used bank 2 guide/tensioner and put it back together and see if she turns over fine by hand without any binding/contact.
If it does I might look at doing a rebuild after my header install next spring

[Dondbg]

Those cams look like they're in the same position as mine where when I pulled the old engine from the car.
Here's what I found once the main cover was pulled off.



And here's all that's left of the 2 guides that are missing



Haven't found the rest yet

Dropped a borescope down in all cylinders and didn't see any piston-valve contact and the valves all look straight.
Will try and source a used bank 2 guide/tensioner and put it back together and see if she turns over fine by hand without any binding/contact.
If it does I might look at doing a rebuild after my header install next spring

Check your adjusters as well

[Dondbg]

Third BBK added to the collection,



Next is bath the dude and work on the timing - hopefully I’m done with the engine and can cont the conversion/build.

[All_Black_A4]

Anytime I start to thinking I have a problem with collecting engines I'll just look at your pictures
I've got one on a stand that needs a bank 2 tensioner/guide, one on a dolly awaiting a tear down and a short block that's only good for scrap due to a fist sized hole in cylinder #1 used to be.
I really should get rid of that one but it's not that much in my way at the moment

[Dondbg]

I have to stop myself - stop myself buying each B6/7 S4 with issues .... the thing is here as soon it rattles people sell them for cheap.

Once I get my S4 running will sell all this metal, in addition to the two engines I’ve got two TIP trans , turned the house in a junkyard.

[Itschich]

Manual swap isn’t awful on these! I think the worst part is the booster/pedal assembly portion. I just did a swap in mine but it wasn’t to bad of a job!


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[Dondbg]

Manual swap isn’t awful on these! I think the worst part is the booster/pedal assembly portion. I just did a swap in mine but it wasn’t to bad of a job!


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I TOTALLY AGREE ! Coz taking it out in that small space was not easy so I can imagine chucking it back in

[Dondbg]

And so after all this testing with the engine from compression to leak down and diagnosing the cam codes which involves rotating it and running it .... I started tearing down it and reached the TQ removal and I while I was turning the engine by hand to be able to remove the three bolts holding the TQ to the plate and this happened



The upper guide broke in to bits and jammed bank 1 completely.

So will clean the engine, remove upper timing covers and try to unjam the engine to be able to remove the TQ - hope it’s as easy as this.

[Dondbg]

Nope not easy, removed upper chain covers and this is what I found



Yes no upper guide - cleaned what I can and had a look inside and still can’t see what jamming it then I went back and had a look at the crank pulley and compared the TDC and I have noticed the engine skipped time further and now the pistons are hitting the valves so I removed cams and then I was to rotate the engine, and I was delighted to discover the lower guide also smashed and still can’t find all the pieces, may be it’s in the oil sump area, will drop it anyway and have a look at some stage



How this engine was running !


Anyway so I decided to pull the heads and do deep cleaning to satisfy my OCD, in addition I have noticed the chains were rubbing against the guides metal pins so I orders main and accessory chains for the peace of mind



Further more, opened the mechanical adjusters and Saw this, this is Bank 2




May be this is were the issue started and the adjuster was struggling to build pressure in order to unlock, look at this small plastic piece in the way.



Both pin holes looks OK so will reuse the adjusters



Cleaned them, replaced the shattered plastic spring perch with another I have from a spare adjuster, new Orings

[VinnysS4]

Looks great!


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[Dondbg]

Looks great!


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Thank you Sir and thank you for all your help always!

[VinnysS4]

Thank you Sir and thank you for all your help always!

Any time brotha. Just want to give back to the community and leave my mark here. Im glad everything worked out for you
Merry Christmas!


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[Rol-co]

Nice to see, you guys want a stickshifter wile in europe the tiptronic is king, also more expensive to buy.
Playing with the flappy paddles is priceless. :)