RS7/6 lpfp direct drop in for B8.5 S4?

[evil35r]

Apparently some S6,A6’s have replaced their lpfp with the RS7/6 lpfp part number 4G0919051F and L being the newest revision that does away with the extra siphon tube. Can this direct drop into our tanks with zero modification? It has to flow more, does anyone have any info on that as well? You can pickup either for under $300 on eBay. Could be a easy solution??? I know of one S4 doing it but isn’t divulging any information. Thanks y’all!

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...o-RS-fuel-pump

[Rodizzle]

Geoff just dropped one in , he might have more detail on this .


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[ModItNow]

That would be sweet

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[evil35r]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Based on these pics it looks like it should work? Thoughts?

[p3u]

I posted all of the details on the 3.0t tech group regarding this last month. Hop on for all the information.

[cspcrx]

I posted all of the details on the 3.0t tech group regarding this last month. Hop on for all the information.

where is this?

[ModItNow]

I posted all of the details on the 3.0t tech group regarding this last month. Hop on for all the information.

If anyone would post the info here that would be helpful. I don't use Facebook

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[Rodizzle]

If anyone would post the info here that would be helpful. I don't use Facebook

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Same


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[evil35r]

Thanks! Appreciate it.

[evil35r]

Bought everything needed to do it, apparently all you have to do is swap the top hat/filter from the s4 over to the rs7 pump and it’s a direct drop in. The rs7 top hat is slightly smaller than ours. So I have ordered the following
2017 RS7 L revision pump with 6K miles $220 eBay
New b8.5 S4 top hat and filter $113 Europa
New tank seal Europa
Tank ring tool amazon

All in $360 if this works and keep my fuel low side above 5K I’ll be extremely happy as of now I am between 4-4500 for the low side on a pull and % around 70-72. I’m sure this will help we’ll see! I have some good data for comparison. Will install and report back.

[p3u]

This has been tested by multiple members in the 3.0t tech group after I thought of the hybrid pump for compatibility.

There have been three different people showing improvement with the ability to run higher ethanol content (myself included).

In addition, it greatly reduces the chance of running the bucket dry due to the siphoning system.

Great modification for B8.5, unfortunately it will not work on the B8.

[Rodizzle]

In addition, it greatly reduces the chance of running the bucket dry due to the siphoning system.

That was my problem , I would dip in the 2BARs on a daily basis . Glad this is an additional option for those going through this problem .



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[evil35r]

Agreed I did fine that they did away with the siphoning system on the newest L revision and the bucket has a slightly better design to fix the running dry issues I’ll also open it up a tad. You don’t need 6-7K for pressure but above 5K and not dipping below 4K like mine is now will def help keep it happy. Thanks hopefully it goes as easy as it looks.

[cspcrx]

sucks it is not for the B8s!

[whiped]

I was going to write a DIY a few weeks ago but didn't have access to the manual PDF so I couldn't include pictures and torque specs.

Anyway, install itself is pretty straight forward.

Make sure the tank is under 1/4 full or you will hate yourself.

1. Remove the baby seat hold down covers.
2. Pull directly up in the middle of the L and R rear seat to remove the clips. (You'll probably break them, they are like $2 at the dealer or on ECS. I'd order extras)
3. Remove the 3 philips screws holding down the pump cover on the pass rear side.
4. Remove the two plugs and then cover the hose with a rag and remove that. (There will be pressure in the system and it will leak some)
5. Using a tool like this. Remove the pump retaining ring.
6. The pump should now lift up and kind of come out of the tank.

Swapping the pump tops.
1. Starting with your old pump remove the fuel hose from the top of the pump(In the bucket)
2. Remove the black plastic line the connects to the top piece.
3. Remove all the wiring from the top piece.
4. Remove the top piece from the bucket.
5. Using a few pry tools press out on all the tabs to remove the fuel filter from the top piece. You should be left with something like this:


6. Do the same thing with the new RS7 pump. (Note: removing the fuel filter is slightly harder due to a locking ring stuck around it.
7. Stick the new RS7 Fuel Filter and lock ring on your old pump top.
8. Stick the new pump top on the RS7 bucket.
9. Connect the fuel line and electrical lines. It should look something like this:

Note: The RS7 fuel level sensor is slightly different than the ones found on the B8. It will work I just can't confirm it reads 100% accurately. If this concerns you, swap it over too.

Finally, install the new RS7 hybrid LPFP back in the tank.

Note: Make sure you align the plastic lock tab and O-ring correctly. Also, the torque on the retaining ring is tighter than you think.

Now before reinstalling the rear seat go take it for a test drive and fill up your tank.

After you've confirmed the top of the pump does not leak assemble everything back together.

(If someone has access to the OE manual posting pictures and torque procedures would be helpful to others )

[hjaaamjb6]

I was going to write a DIY a few weeks ago but didn't have access to the manual PDF so I couldn't include pictures and torque specs.

Anyway, install itself is pretty straight forward.

Make sure the tank is under 1/4 full or you will hate yourself.

1. Remove the baby seat hold down covers.
2. Pull directly up in the middle of the L and R rear seat to remove the clips. (You'll probably break them, they are like $2 at the dealer or on ECS. I'd order extras)
3. Remove the 3 philips screws holding down the pump cover on the pass rear side.
4. Remove the two plugs and then cover the hose with a rag and remove that. (There will be pressure in the system and it will leak some)
5. Using a tool like this. Remove the pump retaining ring.
6. The pump should now lift up and kind of come out of the tank.

Swapping the pump tops.
1. Starting with your old pump remove the fuel hose from the top of the pump(In the bucket)
2. Remove the black plastic line the connects to the top piece.
3. Remove all the wiring from the top piece.
4. Remove the top piece from the bucket.
5. Using a few pry tools press out on all the tabs to remove the fuel filter from the top piece. You should be left with something like this:
[/IMG]

6. Do the same thing with the new RS7 pump. (Note: removing the fuel filter is slightly harder due to a locking ring stuck around it.
7. Stick the new RS7 Fuel Filter and lock ring on your old pump top.
8. Stick the new pump top on the RS7 bucket.
9. Connect the fuel line and electrical lines. It should look something like this:
[/IMG]
Note: The RS7 fuel level sensor is slightly different than the ones found on the B8. It will work I just can't confirm it reads 100% accurately. If this concerns you, swap it over too.

Finally, install the new RS7 hybrid LPFP back in the tank.

Note: Make sure you align the plastic lock tab and O-ring correctly. Also, the torque on the retaining ring is tighter than you think.

Now before reinstalling the rear seat go take it for a test drive and fill up your tank.

After you've confirmed the top of the pump does not leak assemble everything back together.

(If someone has access to the OE manual posting pictures and torque procedures would be helpful to others )

Hey where did you buy the new OEM pump?
I want a new one because it's only $310 vs buying a used one for $2-300+. However I'm afraid of ordering one and finding it doesn't come with the siphon assembly as theres no images besides the OEM diagram which isn't detailed. It seems that most RS7 pumps don't have it and I've seen the same revisions with and without it, so I'm hesitant!

Also, just to clarify, the RS7 filter fits into the B8.5 top hat?

Thank you Geoff!


I'm curious as to the revisions where they did away with the siphon and modified the bucket. Wonder how it compares.

[TristanT14]

Hey where did you buy the new OEM pump?
I want a new one because it's only $310 vs buying a used one for $2-300+. However I'm afraid of ordering one and finding it doesn't come with the siphon assembly as theres no images besides the OEM diagram which isn't detailed. It seems that most RS7 pumps don't have it and I've seen the same revisions with and without it, so I'm hesitant!

Also, just to clarify, the RS7 filter fits into the B8.5 top hat?

Thank you Geoff!


I'm curious as to the revisions where they did away with the siphon and modified the bucket. Wonder how it compares.

Same here looking from where you guys got everything from <3

[p3u]

Same here looking from where you guys got everything from <3

Audi USA Parts has the goods. You just need to buy the RS7 pump and a new seal. No need to purchase anything else unless your current pump is damaged.

[p3u]

Hey where did you buy the new OEM pump?
I want a new one because it's only $310 vs buying a used one for $2-300+. However I'm afraid of ordering one and finding it doesn't come with the siphon assembly as theres no images besides the OEM diagram which isn't detailed. It seems that most RS7 pumps don't have it and I've seen the same revisions with and without it, so I'm hesitant!

Also, just to clarify, the RS7 filter fits into the B8.5 top hat?

Thank you Geoff!


I'm curious as to the revisions where they did away with the siphon and modified the bucket. Wonder how it compares.

Honestly, its foolish to buy a used pump imho. You have no idea what it's been through. Plus, I've had multiple people message me asking if the pump they were looking at on Ebay was correct and everytime it was an old revision or one with a broken siphon tube.

[TristanT14]

Honestly, its foolish to buy a used pump imho. You have no idea what it's been through. Plus, I've had multiple people message me asking if the pump they were looking at on Ebay was correct and everytime it was an old revision or one with a broken siphon tube.

Where does one buy a new one then and how much are they compared to used?

[Rodizzle]

Great write and alternative for those that are having problems of drying out the bucket .
Any logs yet ?


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[whiped]

Great write and alternative for those that are having problems of drying out the bucket .
Any logs yet ?


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It has rained none stop for the last like 10 days...

Car should be back to 100% next weekend. (Doing Tranny Service)

Tracks are also open now and I have the latest 6.X tune from Nate. (Although I haven't had a chance to log any of it yet)

Good times are in the near future :)

[evil35r]

Thanks for the write up Geoff

[ModItNow]

Just checked Audiusaparts.com, $334

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[evil35r]

[IMG][/IMG]

Got mine on eBay for $210 shipped from a 2017 with 6K miles on it.


Edit: cancelled

[p3u]

The current revision (L) does have a siphon tube. I got mine red ordered from Germany as the US didnt have any of the newest part.

[evil35r]

Weird wonder why some have it then and some don’t?

[hjaaamjb6]

Well I bought a new one from audionlineparts.com for $307 (L revision). Should be the same thing all the other sites are selling. I mean they all get it from the same place lol. Same terrible diagram as the rest, so hopefully it comes with the siphon. I will report back

Sean I actually bought that actual pump lol. But John made me aware it wasn't the same as his so I cancelled before he shipped. Well lets hope both designs are improvements for us!

[evil35r]

Lmao I cancelled to before he shipped, I picked up a F revision with siphon for cheap. What’s so wierd is how some have it some don’t and it looks like the ones that don’t have the holes for it and should. I have gotten idle, cruising and wot pressures logged. Hoping for somewhat of a improvement. If it holds over 5K got all I’d be happy. Has anyone confirmed that the pump is actually different? Or is it just different bucket, siphon etc.

[whiped]

The siphon is just an option... Even our stock bucket has an insert for it. The important question is if there is a barb on top of the pump for it or not.

I sent John my stock pump so I couldn't check but my Flex fuel pump didn't have a barb.

[p3u]

The siphon is just an option... Even our stock bucket has an insert for it. The important question is if there is a barb on top of the pump for it or not.

I sent John my stock pump so I couldn't check but my Flex fuel pump didn't have a barb.

Correct, the pump on the RS7 has an extra input for suction that the other pumps do not offer. You cant use the siphon tube without custom plumbing and hardware at that point.

[evil35r]

Good info, and is the pump actually different from ours? Curious how much more pressure it will give.

[rs182]

Any data on RS7 drop-in pump vs Fuel-It + Hydramat yet? My LPFP can’t keep up with demands of I.E. DP E40 w/ ported blower & 57/196.5 pulleys. Will be going with one of these two options soon. Preferably RS7 pump if it is at all as effective as the Fuel-It solution.

[Rodizzle]

My LPFP can’t keep up with demands of I.E. DP E40 w/ ported blower

In general ? Launch or high end ? Their tune has always been super aggressive with fueling (LPFP) . I did multiple logs over a 3 month period between 034 and IE and determined that was the case .
034 never had a issue or still has it .
I just feel like IE should have a disclaimer allowing customers know that they might need a LPFP upgrade as well , but that’s a different thread .
Regardless I would also like to see data for a fun factor as well .


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[rs182]

The issue I have noticed is that the LPFP duty cycle never exceeds ~50% so there is still quite a bit of headroom with the stock LPFP. Damon has asked me to supply him with my LPFP part number, haven’t had a chance yet. Any tips on how to remove the rear seats? Still planning on RS7 pump upgrade either way but would certainly expect more duty cycle request from IE’s tune compared to what I have seen other companies’ tunes requesting. Will try to do some 93 and possibly 104 octane logging with current setup to see how LPFP holds up without having to pump ethanol blend.

[Rodizzle]

The issue I have noticed is that the LPFP duty cycle never exceeds ~50% so there is still quite a bit of headroom with the stock LPFP. Damon has asked me to supply him with my LPFP part number, haven’t had a chance yet. Any tips on how to remove the rear seats? Still planning on RS7 pump upgrade either way but would certainly expect more duty cycle request from IE’s tune compared to what I have seen other companies’ tunes requesting. Will try to do some 93 and possibly 104 octane logging with current setup to see how LPFP holds up without having to pump ethanol blend.

That’s weird , you’ve never seen your duty cycle go over 50% ? In what conditions ? 3rd gear logs ,Launches , Coasting or idle ? Iv logged a hand full of cars 91 tuned and non tune , just about all of them I see at some point the hit low 70% duty cycle.
Also it’s not always about the duty cycle since that’s just the pulse signal that it’s reading . Iv seen my OEM pump push 5bars with a duty cycle of just 38% , that doesn’t mean I could pump 50% more fuel (headroom) . The combination of activity between the hpfp matters as well . You could always over work the HPFP to reduce less stress (LP %) on your LPFP or add a “booster pump” after your OEM LPFP all that will reduce the its pulse signal . Also , you just can’t “request more cycle duty” , the LPFP controller has a future that if you request over a certain percentage of cycle duty cause it just turns off entirely.
I know I don’t make since but long story short , your low fuel pressure sensor provides feedback to the FPCM , ECM commands the FPCM to increase or decrease (PWM/cycle duty ) fuel pump on-time to meet the required fuel demands .

I didn’t do any RS7 pump upgrade so I can’t speak on the duty cycle , plus my problem was pressure . I would dip into the 2bar before modifying my fuel system , Now I constantly see 7bars . Which helped out 100% .



- removing the seat is easy . It just held by to pop in clips . Just up upwards ( one clip on each side )

Sorry if I confused you .






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[zhaijialin]

That’s weird , you’ve never seen your duty cycle go over 50% ? In what conditions ? 3rd gear logs ,Launches , Coasting or idle ? Iv logged a hand full of cars 91 tuned and non tune , just about all of them I see at some point the hit low 70% duty cycle.
Also it’s not always about the duty cycle since that’s just the pulse signal that it’s reading . Iv seen my OEM pump push 5bars with a duty cycle of just 38% , that doesn’t mean I could pump 50% more fuel (headroom) . The combination of activity between the hpfp matters as well . You could always over work the HPFP to reduce less stress (LP %) on your LPFP or add a “booster pump” after your OEM LPFP all that will reduce the its pulse signal . Also , you just can’t “request more cycle duty” , the LPFP controller has a future that if you request over a certain percentage of cycle duty cause it just turns off entirely.
I know I don’t make since but long story short , your low fuel pressure sensor provides feedback to the FPCM , ECM commands the FPCM to increase or decrease (PWM/cycle duty ) fuel pump on-time to meet the required fuel demands .

I didn’t do any RS7 pump upgrade so I can’t speak on the duty cycle , plus my problem was pressure . I would dip into the 2bar before modifying my fuel system , Now I constantly see 7bars . Which helped out 100% .



- removing the seat is easy . It just held by to pop in clips . Just up upwards ( one clip on each side )

Sorry if I confused you .






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Too strange! I suspect that there is a problem with the IE DP E40 tune. I will post a new post discussing this issue.
Because I use IE DP E40 tune, I have tested oem pump + warblo525 and RS7pump + warblo525. The same problem occurs. The LPFP duty cycle does not exceed 50%. I use a switch to control the work of warblo525. Connected to the power of warblo, the idle and normal driving LPFP pressure can reach 7-8bar. However, 100% throttle acceleration will also cause a fault of LPFP pressure of 2 bar in the second and third gears.
So I don't think RS7 pump can solve this problem.
I discussed this with my tuner. He said AXX 108tune has been modified in terms of LPFP control. He suspects that IE tune has not been modified. This leads to a reduction in LPFP pressure. At the same time, I flash AXX 108 # Tune for testing, the same flex fuel, LPFP pressure no problem at all, duty cycle can reach 75%.

I still have a question, why do some vehicles have an LPFP duty cycle of 7X%, while some vehicles do not exceed 50% like stock? ? ?

[rs182]

Thanks for the explanation, improves my understanding of our vehicles’ fuel delivery system. Check out my Log on DataZap, made it public so you should be able to manipulate it how you please. Should answer your questions about how my vehicle’s fuel system is responding to the demands placed upon it. Logged at a 1000’ track. 3rd or 4th run of the night. ~0’ DA, 50 F.
https://datazap.me/u/rs182/log-1553898094

[Rodizzle]

Thanks for the explanation, improves my understanding of our vehicles’ fuel delivery system. Check out my Log on DataZap, made it public so you should be able to manipulate it how you please. Should answer your questions about how my vehicle’s fuel system is responding to the demands placed upon it. Logged at a 1000’ track. 3rd or 4th run of the night. ~0’ DA, 50 F.
https://datazap.me/u/rs182/log-1553898094

Not to side track the fuel pump thread , that LPFP is dying . 3rd gear drop timing to 5° , bypass opens , and you get a lean spike toward the end of 3rd . I know felt that lean spike ( sputtering ) .
What map is this ? It request so much fuel from the hpfp . The request looks like an e40 map but your timing looks like a race map .
Your log looks identical to my old logs with IEs , when I was having fueling issues do a high request and how it’s mapped . I didn’t get a drop of timing tho . You should post this on IE thread .



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[Shane Horning]

Not to side track the fuel pump thread , that LPFP is dying . 3rd gear drop timing to 5° , bypass opens , and you get a lean spike toward the end of 3rd . I know felt that lean spike ( sputtering ) .
What map is this ? It request so much fuel from the hpfp . The request looks like an e40 map but your timing looks like a race map .
Your log looks identical to my old logs with IEs , when I was having fueling issues do a high request and how it’s mapped . I didn’t get a drop of timing tho . You should post this on IE thread .



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When I ran e40 file on my a6 the timing would drop when lpfp couldn't keep up. Must be some cars are different