Air Intake Engineering

[Davethaboss]

Hello all,

So I have spoken to engineers and enthusiasts alike. They have explained to me why an air intake should not cost $500. From your guys' experience what are the best intakes in the business and worth the price? I can understand the price being high if they are carbon fiber but even then, popping a hole through the snow guard and changing your inlet pipe should give you max 10hp increase tuned, correct? I would assume 15% more air flow.

I was looking at purchasing an Integrated Engineering Intake then it occurred to me what engineering is really being done in these products.
Any ideas?
Not trying to bash companies for trying to sell and make a comfortable living by the way. Just trying to gain more knowledge.

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[Gberg888]

Apparently just a drop in filter is going to give you the same gains as a full blown intake up to a certain point.

[texasboy21]

The biggest restrictions in the intake track are the turbo inlet elbow, and the snow grate in the airbox. Anything after that the HP/$$ ratio drops dramatically. You can have 95% of the intake gains to be had, for less than $100.

[Davethaboss]

The biggest restrictions in the intake track are the turbo inlet elbow, and the snow grate in the airbox. Anything after that the HP/$$ ratio drops dramatically. You can have 95% of the intake gains to be had, for less than $100.

See this to me sounds very interesting. So if I cut a hole in my snow guard and buy like an ecs turbo inlet or from another manufacturer I would have near to or same amount of HP gains.

Would this method make the air influx sound more prominent?
I want to believe there is some more engineering into than I want to believe.

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[rbish56]

i just removed the snow grate and put in a k&n drop in filter and seemed to work well. i also have a cts turbo inlet pipe. you can also dremel out some of the intake plastic because that is VERY restrictive. i have not done that yet.

[texasboy21]

See this to me sounds very interesting. So if I cut a hole in my snow guard and buy like an ecs turbo inlet or from another manufacturer I would have near to or same amount of HP gains.

Would this method make the air influx sound more prominent?
I want to believe there is some more engineering into than I want to believe.

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You don't have to cut anything, you simply remove the snow screen. With an upgraded turbo inlet and snow screen delete you can hear the induction noise more. The inlets are metal and metal induction tubes tend to be louder than silicone or plastic. That said, there a devise that sends artificial intake sound into the cabin that can be adjusted or disabled (volume set to 0).

The 'engineering' is the same as it is on any modern turbo car, meaning it is more about pressure differential than "flow". The stock airbox and filter can easily support all the airflow the turbo can move, and therefore is not a restriction limiting power. The aftermarket turbo inlets increase performance of the engine by reducing the pressure drop pre-turbo (as does larger diameter piping, less turns, shorter distance, etc.) creating efficiencies - less heat, more airflow at the same manifold PSI, etc.

The same principle is seen post turbo as well. You don't have to increase the downpipe diameter to increase performance, you simply need to remove the cat (although the increase in diameter can help as well). Lower restriction, higher efficiency, more power!

[rbish56]

You don't have to cut anything, you simply remove the snow screen. With an upgraded turbo inlet and snow screen delete you can hear the induction noise more. The inlets are metal and metal induction tubes tend to be louder than silicone or plastic. That said, there a devise that sends artificial intake sound into the cabin that can be adjusted or disabled (volume set to 0).

The 'engineering' is the same as it is on any modern turbo car, meaning it is more about pressure differential than "flow". The stock airbox and filter can easily support all the airflow the turbo can move, and therefore is not a restriction limiting power. The aftermarket turbo inlets increase performance of the engine by reducing the pressure drop pre-turbo (as does larger diameter piping, less turns, shorter distance, etc.) creating efficiencies - less heat, more airflow at the same manifold PSI, etc.

The same principle is seen post turbo as well. You don't have to increase the downpipe diameter to increase performance, you simply need to remove the cat (although the increase in diameter can help as well). Lower restriction, higher efficiency, more power!

there is a part that can be dremeled out. you do not have to but there are multiple videos out there that show what im talking about

[texasboy21]

there is a part that can be dremeled out. you do not have to but there are multiple videos out there that show what im talking about

You are correct, but the guy I quoted stated cutting the snow screen, which is not necessary as it pops out.

I havnt done the mod you mention (not sure I want to cut up my car yet).

[rbish56]

You are correct, but the guy I quoted stated cutting the snow screen, which is not necessary as it pops out.

I havnt done the mod you mention (not sure I want to cut up my car yet).

ohhhhh alright thats my mistake. yeah, dont cut the screen just take it out and if you live in a cold climate put it back in come winter. i dont want to start cutting up mine either and the gains from it are negligible at best.

[smirk]

So I basically bought these 3 parts:

Silicone Intake Hose

Turbo Inlet Pipe

High Flow Filter

And I ripped out the snowgrate at the bottom of the intake.

All of this combined gives me an intake I can hear, and I feel like the engine is breathing better, but who knows really.

[rbish56]

So I basically bought these 3 parts:

Silicone Intake Hose

Turbo Inlet Pipe

High Flow Filter

And I ripped out the snowgrate at the bottom of the intake.

All of this combined gives me an intake I can hear, and I feel like the engine is breathing better, but who knows really.

there are a lot of tests that show an drop in filter picking up HP and TQ on a dyno. the videos i watched were cars that had less performance. i would think that a car geared more towards performance would see even better gains. only real way to tell for sure is to test before and after

[Davethaboss]

I get what you are saying but these manufacturers are marking up their atuff by a huge margin. Part of me says it is snake oil but, another part tells me that it is not only pressure differential but air flow.

Apparently, the R600 air intake redirects and adjusts the pressure difference to make it optimal. Obviously the actual filter enclosure is different.

My question is this:

If I simply change my air filter to a K&N, remove the snow guard (is this underneath the airbox? New to Audi still forgive me.) install a hose and install an inlet pipe, I will get around 95% power that I would get from say an APR Carbon Fiber Air Intake.

You make a good point regarding metal construction resulting in a much more pleasing noise. What creates it though exactly? You are saying at the turbo inlet?

This is all very interesting. I would love to give this a try. I just want to make sure I can get the same induction noise as with a r600. I am starting to think that is the reason why they charge so much for these items....

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[MikTip]

I have Neuspeeds Plo intake.

I now can hear the turbo and the blow-off valve.

Plus it removes the massive air box and allows more cooling air onto the DSG oil cooler.



I have APR's turbo inlet.

I also opened up the front intake so it gets air directly


The stock grill also has a piece that needs to be removed to get direct air into the air-box/filter:



Item #8

However I wouldnt drive into severe rain storms with this mod. Might ingest water or snow....

K&N makes a "Drycharger Filter Wrap" that claims to protect from water...

[15S3]

Any instructions on how to remove #8? Do you need to remove the bumper so you can remove the grill?

[billk1967]

Any instructions on how to remove #8? Do you need to remove the bumper so you can remove the grill?

one example of a youtuber doing the mod...bit long but it does give you complete details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7C0zHx2iWM

[FlyboyS4]

Hello all,

So I have spoken to engineers and enthusiasts alike. They have explained to me why an air intake should not cost $500. From your guys' experience what are the best intakes in the business and worth the price? I can understand the price being high if they are carbon fiber but even then, popping a hole through the snow guard and changing your inlet pipe should give you max 10hp increase tuned, correct? I would assume 15% more air flow.

I was looking at purchasing an Integrated Engineering Intake then it occurred to me what engineering is really being done in these products.
Any ideas?
Not trying to bash companies for trying to sell and make a comfortable living by the way. Just trying to gain more knowledge.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

texasboy21 hit the points I would have brought up and I agree.

For a good bit less than an aftermarket intake costs you can get very close with a few well chosen parts to upgrade the stock intake.

The turbo inlet pipe is a must do if you are going to spend money replacing pre-turbo intake components.

I've been looking into some of the intake options for the MQB engine and from what I've seen the better aftermarket setups perform a little better, but not by much. Here's some light reading to keep you busy if you want to see how different air intakes and inlet elbows compare.

[Kevin quattro]

I removed #8 and drove in heavy rain this week with no issue. I checked inside the engine bay and saw no water around my apr intake. Not so sure about winter though.

[MikTip]

I removed #8 and drove in heavy rain this week with no issue. I checked inside the engine bay and saw no water around my apr intake. Not so sure about winter though.

Good to know!

I havent had any rain in my neck of the woods.

[Davethaboss]

texasboy21 hit the points I would have brought up and I agree.

For a good bit less than an aftermarket intake costs you can get very close with a few well chosen parts to upgrade the stock intake.

The turbo inlet pipe is a must do if you are going to spend money replacing pre-turbo intake components.

I've been looking into some of the intake options for the MQB engine and from what I've seen the better aftermarket setups perform a little better, but not by much. Here's some light reading to keep you busy if you want to see how different air intakes and inlet elbows compare.

Here's my question. What makes the best intake noise and peforms the best? Do I want a metallic/plastic polymer/silicone design? There are so many to choose from. This is where maybe changing the airbox or removing the airbox is better and therefore the more $$$ you spend the better the sound is I suppose.

I am thinking about keeping the stock airbox and just changing the turbo inlet and turbo hose from the airbox. Maybe change the filter out too, and call it a day?

Can we all agree the current airbox is more than adeuqate enough to push more air out. If anything the consensus is that the stock hose and inlet are the main things restricting airflow.
Why would the original engineers even do this?



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[15S3]

Is #8 the plastic piece inside the long box on top of the radiator that gets dremmel'd out as shown in the youtube video from #15 above? Just asking cause #8 in the diagram from #13 looks like a different piece that's part of t he grill assembly.

[MikTip]

Is #8 the plastic piece inside the long box on top of the radiator that gets dremmel'd out as shown in the youtube video from #15 above? Just asking cause #8 in the diagram from #13 looks like a different piece that's part of t he grill assembly.

#8 is inside the grill...the grill has to be removed to remove #8.

Pictured here above the 4 Audi rings

[MikTip]

https://www.moddedeuros.com/products...ystem-2015-gti

[1killera4]

Removing "Snow guard" when I get home today. No danger of any snow here.

[Davethaboss]

Removing "Snow guard" when I get home today. No danger of any snow here.

Yea I can not do that so I am keeping mine on there.

Too many mixed opinions here. I would like to continue using the stock airbox and stock air filter. "Apparently", the only restrictions are the turbo hose and turbo air inlet.

Then I ask myself if I remove the stock airbox can I get a better sound using an aftermarket box.

I am contemplating designing and making my own air intake box at this point.

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[15S3]

Thanks MikTip, that certainly clears up any confusion.

And btw, I'm not at all sure that's a "snow grate"; I've read some speculation that it's intended to diffuse/mix air as it's heading toward the filter.

[MikTip]

Thanks MikTip, that certainly clears up any confusion.

And btw, I'm not at all sure that's a "snow grate"; I've read some speculation that it's intended to diffuse/mix air as it's heading toward the filter.

Months ago I read on one of these forums to remove it...I did when I replaced my grill with a RS3 style grill.

I can see the diffuser blocking a steady stream of air coming into the airbox...at freeway speeds....

I have removed my air-box and have Neuspeeds Pflo setup...

I can see an enclosed air-box possibly getting too much air and higher speeds...

Removing the snow guard, or not, would depend on what type of intake setup one has....enclosed air-box, or no airbox setup.

[cjacS3]

Thanks MikTip, that certainly clears up any confusion.

And btw, I'm not at all sure that's a "snow grate"; I've read some speculation that it's intended to diffuse/mix air as it's heading toward the filter.

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I read the same about the "snow grate", also read the reason the air is pulled from the passenger side of grill then routed over to the airbox is to better accelerate the airflow. Many guys dremel out the driver side piece in the grill so air goes directly into the airbox, is this actually good or bad? Also, all of the open or closed aftermarket airboxes eliminate both the "snow grate" difusing and air channeling from passenger side grill to airbox by pulling air directly into filter, is this good or bad? Lots of opinions and very difficult to decide what to do...It seems more airflow would be very beneficial with my S1 tune, kind of thinking leave the factory airbox as-is (with K&N) and replace turbo inlet and pipe and maybe the hose between the airbox and turbo inlet pipe.

[Davethaboss]

*************************************

I read the same about the "snow grate", also read the reason the air is pulled from the passenger side of grill then routed over to the airbox is to better accelerate the airflow. Many guys dremel out the driver side piece in the grill so air goes directly into the airbox, is this actually good or bad? Also, all of the open or closed aftermarket airboxes eliminate both the "snow grate" difusing and air channeling from passenger side grill to airbox by pulling air directly into filter, is this good or bad? Lots of opinions and very difficult to decide what to do...It seems more airflow would be very beneficial with my S1 tune, kind of thinking leave the factory airbox as-is (with K&N) and replace turbo inlet and pipe and maybe the hose between the airbox and turbo inlet pipe.

That is exactly what I was thinking about doing. Then one has to wonder what type of air filter do they use, type of hose, type of turbo inlet, etc...

I am thinking about going metal actually. Neuspeed makes something like that. Problem is the hose needs to be compatible with the stock airbox. ECS Tuning might be the only option as everything else I have looked at needs to be used with a different airbox/grate.

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[FlyboyS4]

*************************************

I read the same about the "snow grate", also read the reason the air is pulled from the passenger side of grill then routed over to the airbox is to better accelerate the airflow. Many guys dremel out the driver side piece in the grill so air goes directly into the airbox, is this actually good or bad? Also, all of the open or closed aftermarket airboxes eliminate both the "snow grate" difusing and air channeling from passenger side grill to airbox by pulling air directly into filter, is this good or bad? Lots of opinions and very difficult to decide what to do...It seems more airflow would be very beneficial with my S1 tune, kind of thinking leave the factory airbox as-is (with K&N) and replace turbo inlet and pipe and maybe the hose between the airbox and turbo inlet pipe.

I'm going to guess that 99.9% of what you are reading is nothing but speculation from people who are well intentioned but are giving opinions without a basis in facts.

[Davethaboss]

Fair enough. There *has* to be a reason these engineers design this stuff. We can speculate all we want but, if it is in the car, means it was engineered. For us to remove something from our vehicles and thinking by accident we are smarter than the 15 engineers that designed this thing, would be folly.

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[Gberg888]

The only thing ill add is there is an OEM piece that blocks off the back end of the intake bar by the passenger side where in the intake track dumps right into the engine bay.

I would guess that this along with removing the snow guard and adding a KN filter would be 90% of what an intake costs for 75 bucks...

At the end of the day, the only thing beyond doing this that would have a solid impact would be getting an intake with an actual velocity stack built into it to help accelerate the air.

I also think that adding that back end piece closing off the opening into the engine bay and then leaving the drivers side the way it is instead of cutting it to open it up would actually help to accelerate the air into the box while cutting that opening open would just add turbulence into the stream of air coming from the other side of the badge.

[FlyboyS4]

Fair enough. There *has* to be a reason these engineers design this stuff. We can speculate all we want but, if it is in the car, means it was engineered. For us to remove something from our vehicles and thinking by accident we are smarter than the 15 engineers that designed this thing, would be folly.

I agree there is probably some reason. Could be to help keep the passenger compartment quiet, could have been they already had tooling to make the part and it saved costs versus redesigning the part. There's a multitude of possible reasons, none of which may have a goal of increasing engine performance, which is generally what aftermarket modifications inside the engine compartment are about. Those 15 engineers probably had different goals than you or I.

At the end of the day, the only thing beyond doing this that would have a solid impact would be getting an intake with an actual velocity stack built into it to help accelerate the air.

The only thing that will have a solid impact is a change that creates a measurable solid impact.