3x RS4 owner - get back in or 2018 M3 Competition Manual or something else...

[archangel]

While I realize this in not an unbiased audience, I figured I would pose the question. I have owned 3 RS4s since 2008, every time I am without one for a year or two I end up picking up another. Right now I have a super clean and modified 1994 Porsche 911 that gets driven on the weekends and a Subaru Outback for my commute and to haul groceries. The Subaru is actually a solid car for sitting in the LA traffic, but of course there is no smile on my face when I get in like on my RS4s or my 911.

My decision now is do I pick up a 2018 BMW M3 Competition Package/6 Speed or as clean as I can find RS4. I have not yet driven the M3 and wonder if anybody here has a fair opinion on the pros and cons. I know the pros and cons of the RS4 of course.

It could be something else, but has to be 4 door and manual transmission. Considered E39 M5 as well. I have a 5 year old, so back seat is important.

[d2a4]

Well the real question is why do you part with the 3 RS4s? I would not unless you have issue with them. I would never get rid of mine (unless right now I do have some frustrated issue of vacuum leak trigger the SAI code and I need to fix it ASAP for the smog check coming up)

[CarterRuss]

Try reaching out to @the-house. He just picked up an F83 M4, so while not the exact same maybe he can shed some light. Also try reaching out to @Nuklear, not sure if he'll check here but I believe he bought an F80 M3.

From a pure cost perspective I can't imagine buying anything but the RS4.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Audizine mobile app

[archangel]

3 different reasons.
1st RS4 was actually a dud. Was in the dealer a week after I purchased (new). Ended up being there for 6 months to resolve. Basically had carbon buildup after driving around the block.
2nd bought a house and had to consolidate cars. Thought I would be practical.
3rd got deep into a reconditioning project on a 1994 C2 911.

[usmc_s4]

I have a F80 M3 Comp manual and love it. I'm actively looking to get an RS4 to add to the garage.

F80 M3 Pros: (I bought it new a year ago and only have 700mi on it)
-FI motor
-RWD
-Modern amenities

Cons:
-Steering can feel heavy
-Lacks rawness at times
-exhaust sounds like a vacuum cleaner....

[archangel]

700 miles in a year!? OK, sort of what I figured it terms of pros/cons.
I think the other con is that there are a bunch produced, so the they are not quite unique as the RS. Thinking about looking at the M3 CS, which is more rare.
Pro, I would guess gas mileage is much better.

[Datadatum]

700 miles in a year!? OK, sort of what I figured it terms of pros/cons.
I think the other con is that there are a bunch produced, so the they are not quite unique as the RS. Thinking about looking at the M3 CS, which is more rare.
Pro, I would guess gas mileage is much better.

You wouldn't think there is much that is worse than the RS4... but I managed to find it. My daily is a GT350, which gets 11.5mpg around town. I run it with E85 tune, which gets a mind-numbing 8.5 mpg.

[archangel]

Yeah my 911 gets about 20 mpg even with spirited driving.




Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Pyromatic177]

The only modern amenities that I found the RS to lack was:
-Keyless entry/Push to start
-Bluetooth audio

And that was just because I was used to it from my B8.5 S4's. I installed a aftermarket head unit with CarPlay so that took care of that. And the trun key i don't actually mind.

If you have owned 3 RS4's and none of them were supercharged. I would say look into that. Because that makes it a completely different car and so much more fun. As the RS will feel slow compared to the M3

[archangel]

The only modern amenities that I found the RS to lack was:
-Keyless entry/Push to start
-Bluetooth audio

And that was just because I was used to it from my B8.5 S4's. I installed a aftermarket head unit with CarPlay so that took care of that. And the trun key i don't actually mind.

If you have owned 3 RS4's and none of them were supercharged. I would say look into that. Because that makes it a completely different car and so much more fun. As the RS will feel slow compared to the M3

You are probably on to something. Was considering the AMD on the last go round.
I alwasys did KW V3s and the normal wear and tear items. I had a B5 S4 with K04s that was a blast.

[AlexB7RS4]

I test drove an F80 M3 recently and have lived with my B7 RS4 for the last 3 years. My RS4 Is an Avant for what it's worth for the comparison.

Impressions of the M3:
Cons:
- Sounds like a tractor on cold start. Like, seriously crap. Possibly the worst sounding car I've heard in my life.
- Visibility isn't great compared to the RS4. It's a sleeker car, shorter windows.
- Interior is a bit boring for such an expensive car. Other than the tech, the RS4 is better (note I have an Australian car with FBSW and Euro wingback seats)
- A bit more common than an RS4

Pros:
- DCT was awesome. Easy to drive in Comfort. Snaps like a weapon in Sport +.
- Sounds OK in normal driving (no 4.2 V8, but ok)
- Fast as hell. Don't let the similar hp to RS4 fool you, torque peak 50% higher than RS4 available from basically idle makes this a much, much faster car.
- RWD. Slidey slidey! Seriously fun. That torque plus RWD makes traction nonexistant in 1st and 2nd at anything above half throttle.
- Adaptive suspension/steering etc is actually noticeably different and quite good. It's easy and tame in full comfort - feels like a normal 3 series, smooths out bumps nicely and very liveable. Full Sport+ turns it into a lunatic golf cart - feels amazing to drive - miles better than the RS4 when pushing it.
- Did i say slidey?
- Looks amazing
- Slidey!

I'm probably not going to buy one, I'm moving more towards a Range Rover instead, but I have to say the M3 got under my skin a bit. It is very well balanced, and I miss high powered RWD cars. The RS4 is awesome but it can be a bit clinical and understeery. To get your money's worth out of the M3 you'll need to track it. It's too bloody fast for the road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Datadatum]

^ Good, crisp update! I test drove the last version of the M3 (possible replacement for my RS4), and ended up getting a GT350 (to replace my Miata - but that's another story). The boosted motors just don't sound all that great compared to the NA V8s.

I used to have a built '05 STi that sounded evil. Not a great sound, but you knew it meant the business. I do remember that the ATS-V I test drove had a surprisingly aggressive sound for a turbo 6.

[archangel]

Ok so fast, slippery vacuum cleaner with no style. Got it.

This is why I keep coming back to the RS. I only wish the back seat had like 6 more inches.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Pyromatic177]

Ok so fast, slippery vacuum cleaner with no style. Got it.

This is why I keep coming back to the RS. I only wish the back seat had like 6 more inches.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Like most woman some RS owners do desire a few more inches in the rear 😂

In seriousness how much bigger is the M3's backseat vs. the RS?

[AlexB7RS4]

It's pretty similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJacksA4]

It's pretty similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You think so? I have both as well and find that the M3 has quite a bit more legroom in the rear seats. The back seats are a lot more comfortable in the F80 than in the RS, that I can say for sure. Feels pretty similar to an older 5 series

[B6UltraSport]

You think so? I have both as well and find that the M3 has quite a bit more legroom in the rear seats. The back seats are a lot more comfortable in the F80 than in the RS, that I can say for sure. Feels pretty similar to an older 5 series

I've also owned an F80 M3 and a couple RS4's and would agree that the legroom in the backseat of the F80 feels bigger than the RS4. I've never actually measured but that's certainly what it feels like.

[b6bydesign04]

I've also owned an F80 M3 and a couple RS4's and would agree that the legroom in the backseat of the F80 feels bigger than the RS4. I've never actually measured but that's certainly what it feels like.

FWIW, according to Edmunds:

2007 RS4
Head Room is 37.1 in.
Rear Leg Room 34.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 53.4 in.
(https://www.edmunds.com/audi/rs-4/2007/features-specs/)

2018 M3
Rear Head Room 37.7 in.
Rear Leg Room 35.1 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in.
(https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2018/...eatures-specs/)

[B6UltraSport]

FWIW, according to Edmunds:

2007 RS4
Head Room is 37.1 in.
Rear Leg Room 34.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 53.4 in.
(https://www.edmunds.com/audi/rs-4/2007/features-specs/)

2018 M3
Rear Head Room 37.7 in.
Rear Leg Room 35.1 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in.
(https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2018/...eatures-specs/)

Interesting, it feels like the difference is bigger than that!

[kpop]

While I realize this in not an unbiased audience, I figured I would pose the question. I have owned 3 RS4s since 2008, every time I am without one for a year or two I end up picking up another. Right now I have a super clean and modified 1994 Porsche 911 that gets driven on the weekends and a Subaru Outback for my commute and to haul groceries. The Subaru is actually a solid car for sitting in the LA traffic, but of course there is no smile on my face when I get in like on my RS4s or my 911.

My decision now is do I pick up a 2018 BMW M3 Competition Package/6 Speed or as clean as I can find RS4. I have not yet driven the M3 and wonder if anybody here has a fair opinion on the pros and cons. I know the pros and cons of the RS4 of course.

It could be something else, but has to be 4 door and manual transmission. Considered E39 M5 as well. I have a 5 year old, so back seat is important.

I currently have an RS4, owned an E90 M3 6MT that I miss dearly, and spent several hours driving an F80 M3 6MT. I think the RS4 and new M3 are very different cars. If cost is not an issue, then consider the driving experience differences. High revs, heavier AWD car in the RS4 vs. lots of mid-range torque, RWD, and better handling in the M3 comp. The interiors are also very different, with the M3 feeling considerably more modern than the RS4 for better or worse.

As for driving dynamics, I found the F80 M3 to be a bit too sterile and lacking the character I loved in the RS4 and E90 M3. The exhaust note in particular was a big turn-off. The M3's turbocharged torque was a great companion around town, but never gave me the same satisfaction as winding out a N/A V8 on a back road. Both cars are great options (buy both if you can), but I think the RS4 offers a stronger value proposition for the money. I haven't yet driven an E39 M5, so won't comment there.

[IronmanS4]

I just traded in my F82 M4 after owning it about a year. I also had an RS4 a few yrs ago, sold it and replaced it with an E90 M3 .

There were a lot of things I liked about the M4. I ended up having it tuned to a Stg2 BM3 93 oct which puts it to about 560-75 HP. I chose the M-DCT as I did not care for the 6spd manual and I also regretted not getting the E90 M3 in a DCT. BMW manuals were never good IMHO w/ the exception of the E46 M3's box.

The M4 was really quick stock, but w/ the tune it was crazy. Rolling in 3rd I could spin the rears on a cool day. I didn't mind the sound of the exhaust. Its a very subjective thing, take it for what it is, but most owners like the sound.

Since you live out West, you'll enjoy the comfort level in Efficient Mode . I grew up in Santa Monica during the 80's and lived in Venice off Lincoln for a while. I wouldn't want a manual car in LA. Man, I drove my 71 914/6 and 87 911 in that nonsense for too many years.

I saw this thread mainly because I'm considering revisiting an RS4. Really loved mine and my only real gripe with the car was the seating position. I'm 5'10 but man , the seat was just an inch too high.

Lastly, I traded in the M4 because once again...they have put together a phenomenal motor, like the S65 V8 in the E90 M3, but with a big Achilles heel. The S55 inline 6 in the M4/3 has a fragile crank hub and there are now one too many incidents of them spinning. It's happening to both stock and tuned examples. There is currently no guaranteed fix and if it spins bad, the post warranty cost is upwards of $35K.

My E90 M3 I sold because of the rod bearing issue, loved the car but I think I'm done w/ BMW for now. Do your Due Diligence for sure.

[ssc_rs4]

I haven't yet driven an E39 M5, so won't comment there.

Btw awesome write up on the newer generation M3 and M4. I had all the old school M cars. 1995 E39 M3, 1998 E37 M Roadster, and 2003 E39 M5.

So don’t bother on the E39 M5. Although I loved it when I first got it. Most amazing car I had up to that time. (2012 Panamera S is the most amazing car I’ve had) But compared to the RS4, the E39 M5 is like a delicate flower. Certainly isn’t built as well as the RS4s. But I did feel more nimble and easier to keep at 120-140 mph on long drives. The RS4 feels a lot heavier and I feel more planted (must be the Quattro). And on long drives, I feel I need to work harder to keep it cruising at 105-110. So the RS4 doesn’t give me that feeling that “it’s asking for more” (speed). All my M cars gave me that feeling, so they were great for long drives. The RS4 is great for canyon carving. So to me the RS4 is almost the perfect balance. Great going slow and great going fast. I don’t know how else to explain it. So now I have 3 RS4s. It’s the only car I’ve owned that I wanted to get more than one example **shrug shoulders** :)



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Datadatum]

I keep wanting to get an M3... and I keep keeping the RS4. :)

The driving engagement in the BMW's is just not as enjoyable as the RS4. I got a Miata to try to quell the need for a connected daily driver... and ended up trading that for a GT350. I'm probably going to sell the RS4 to make room for my son's car when he hits 16 soon... but I dunno...

[speedracer129]

I currently have both in my garage right now. The 2008 B7 RS4 I've had for about 6 years and the F80 M3 w/ Comp. Pack I just got last February 2019. I've driven both back to back and if I had a choice to have both cars new, I would probably pick the B7 RS4. My M3 is a 6 speed manual just like the RS4.

M3 Pros:
-New
-Modern technology (Heads up display, Apple Car Play, Wireless Charging, Steering/Throttle/Suspension has 3 settings, LED headlights, etc.)
-Better gas mileage
-Very tuneable
-Seems pretty reliable (I have friends who have had their F80s since 2015 and put some miles on it with few issues - most were modded.)

M3 Cons:
-The manual shifter doesn't seem as precise as the RS4's shifter. A little rubbery, but not like the old B4 S4.
-Clutch is a bit soft compared to RS4.
-Feels "big". You can see the hood looking out the front and it just seems bulkier than the RS4.
-20" Competition wheels run on 30 series tires. I already bent one and they seem very prone to damage due to low tire sidewall.
-It's a BMW... most people will look at you like you're a douchebag. People won't even look at you in the RS4.


RS4 Pros:
-V8 sound, high redline, wonderful exhaust note
-Stiffer clutch with shorter travel. Feels more like a proper sports car
-If you prefer something more raw and free of electronic nannies, the RS4 is it

RS4 Cons:
-Like they said, a little less legroom in back. I have two kids and they fit fine in either car though.
-Eats gas
-Expensive to maintain! I've spent a small fortune to keep this car running.

Anyways, just my quick reply! I'm selling my RS4 though. Can't have both for much longer :).

[archangel]

I currently have both in my garage right now. The 2008 B7 RS4 I've had for about 6 years and the F80 M3 w/ Comp. Pack I just got last February 2019. I've driven both back to back and if I had a choice to have both cars new, I would probably pick the B7 RS4. My M3 is a 6 speed manual just like the RS4.

M3 Pros:
-New
-Modern technology (Heads up display, Apple Car Play, Wireless Charging, Steering/Throttle/Suspension has 3 settings, LED headlights, etc.)
-Better gas mileage
-Very tuneable
-Seems pretty reliable (I have friends who have had their F80s since 2015 and put some miles on it with few issues - most were modded.)

M3 Cons:
-The manual shifter doesn't seem as precise as the RS4's shifter. A little rubbery, but not like the old B4 S4.
-Clutch is a bit soft compared to RS4.
-Feels "big". You can see the hood looking out the front and it just seems bulkier than the RS4.
-20" Competition wheels run on 30 series tires. I already bent one and they seem very prone to damage due to low tire sidewall.
-It's a BMW... most people will look at you like you're a douchebag. People won't even look at you in the RS4.


RS4 Pros:
-V8 sound, high redline, wonderful exhaust note
-Stiffer clutch with shorter travel. Feels more like a proper sports car
-If you prefer something more raw and free of electronic nannies, the RS4 is it

RS4 Cons:
-Like they said, a little less legroom in back. I have two kids and they fit fine in either car though.
-Eats gas
-Expensive to maintain! I've spent a small fortune to keep this car running.

Anyways, just my quick reply! I'm selling my RS4 though. Can't have both for much longer :).

Solid info. highly leaning to get back in the RS4... May test drive a new M5 6-speed if I can hunt one down

[b6bydesign04]

Solid info. highly leaning to get back in the RS4... May test drive a new M5 6-speed if I can hunt one down

You mean the older F10? Don't think the new F90 comes in a manual.

[archangel]

You mean the older F10? Don't think the new F90 comes in a manual.

Yeah but not high on my list vs seeing if I can find a super clean RS4.



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[BucketOfTruth]

Yeah but not high on my list vs seeing if I can find a super clean RS4.

Why not an E60 M5 6speed with the rod bearings done? Years ago I test drove an E92 M3 DCT and a 7 speed SMG E60 M5 back to back. The M3 felt like it was carved from a single block of granite and seemed very balanced but somehow I was more charmed by the M5 with its power and luxury. The gearbox was total crap though as you'd expect. My fear is that with these screaming n/a engines that the 7 speed gearboxes suit them a whole lot better because the worse condition E92 M3 6pseed I drove later just felt dreadful. Even with the DCT the E92 M3 felt gutless but my DD was a 996TT at the time, so it's not really fair.