Complete guide of speakers in the B9 B&O system

[Bobby Kinstle]

What did the data look like for the front door woofer?

I am going to try to cross over the mid-range driver no higher than 4kHz. It looks like the usable range is from about 300Hz up to about 2-3kHz. Right now I have it crossed over at 3kHz which honestly sound a little too low. 4kHz is probably about right.

Here is the front door woofer graph. SPL is also pretty low. One of the reasons I chose the woofer I did was because it had high sensitivity and this channel needed help badly.

In my car, my mid-range that I used naturally rolls off at about 4.5 but people who have used the faitalpro usually crossover at 4 khz and that seems to work well with the tweeter at 5 khz.

Beware in a lot of silk dome tweeters get really shouty at 3Khz. I would avoid a crossover point that low if you possibly can.

Impedance graph.jpg

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[Mark888]

Did you spend any time charting the output of each of the primary paths coming out of the amp? It would be interesting to feed it white noise and capture all the outputs to see what the DSP is doing aside from lpf/hpf. I'm wondering how much they tuned the system to try to compensate for the crappy drivers. I know this is the typical m.o. for these systems, inspired by the early Bose systems where they worked magic in the DSP to make things sound "exciting" to con people into thinking it sounded good.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Did you spend any time charting the output of each of the primary paths coming out of the amp? It would be interesting to feed it white noise and capture all the outputs to see what the DSP is doing aside from lpf/hpf. I'm wondering how much they tuned the system to try to compensate for the crappy drivers. I know this is the typical m.o. for these systems, inspired by the early Bose systems where they worked magic in the DSP to make things sound "exciting" to con people into thinking it sounded good.

No, I haven't done that because I really don't have the proper test equipment for it. Also, it would be pretty awful. I would have to disassemble all the panels in my car and connect test cables that go out to test equipment that I can roll around. I am very curious about it, but in almost all situations replacing the speakers makes the car sound so much better that I think that any corrections they might be doing are probably minimal. They did do extensive amounts of software crossover however.

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[Mark888]

This morning I moved the lpad to the correct side of the cap. Mid-range definitely came up in volume as expected. Tweeter came down. Sounds nice honestly. I think the mid could use some attenuation but this is close. So here is what I'm thinking...

20220324_133444.jpg

[Bobby Kinstle]

That would certainly give you more bass and mid bass

[Mark888]

I have to say, even without knocking down the level of the midrange driver at all, this sounds pretty darn good. I think I might try lowering the x-over frequency to reduce the gap between the mid and the high frequency driver (currently about 3kHz and 6.2kHz, respectively). I know that is a huge hole I carved out, so I might close it just a bit, but probably not a lot. This is the B&W secret sauce I was mentioning. I think I may have nailed it just by trial and error. Refinement from here.

[Bobby Kinstle]

It's okay to have some spacing in between because you're trying to avoid the Butterworth lift. To be quite Frank, even the expert crossover designers at tier 1, speaker companies admit that there's a fair amount of trial and error in their designs.

Just don't forget you're working on a car which is a highly imperfect and noisy environment and don't get lost chasing the purple dragon of perfection.

One last thing. You should build the system that makes you happy. Everybody has different taste in audio but only you will be the one that listens to it for all long as you own the car

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[Mark888]

Just don't forget you're working on a car which is a highly imperfect and noisy environment and don't get lost chasing the purple dragon of perfection.

That is always the challenge for us engineers, isn't it? Even if I end up with exactly what I am using right now, I will be quite happy 1000% better than where I started. Thanks for all your insight and wisdom getting to this point.

[Bobby Kinstle]

That is always the challenge for us engineers, isn't it? Even if I end up with exactly what I am using right now, I will be quite happy 1000% better than where I started. Thanks for all your insight and wisdom getting to this point.

LOL, yea. I suffer from crippling levels of overthinking.

[Bobby Kinstle]

I have to say, even without knocking down the level of the midrange driver at all, this sounds pretty darn good. I think I might try lowering the x-over frequency to reduce the gap between the mid and the high frequency driver (currently about 3kHz and 6.2kHz, respectively). I know that is a huge hole I carved out, so I might close it just a bit, but probably not a lot. This is the B&W secret sauce I was mentioning. I think I may have nailed it just by trial and error. Refinement from here.

Have you installed the inductor into the midrange yet? I was thinking, by spacing it out from the tweeter, and reducing it's overlap, you might cure that overly brightness of it without resorting to an Lpad.

[AldermanToffee]

Has anyone installed two subwoofer's in the parcel shelf?

I'm looking at the Comp R's right now and it seems like a shame to leave one side unused.

[Bobby Kinstle]

It's actually been discussed before. Nobody is so far done it. The main reason is because the grill on the other side is completely opaque and would need to be opened up somehow. You would also need to cut a lot of metal and folks are uncomfortable with compromising the crash structure.

That being said, throwing two subwoofers back there would be pretty awesome.

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[AldermanToffee]

It's actually been discussed before. Nobody is so far done it. The main reason is because the grill on the other side is completely opaque and would need to be opened up somehow. You would also need to cut a lot of metal and folks are uncomfortable with compromising the crash structure.

That being said, throwing two subwoofers back there would be pretty awesome.

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Ah I see, that's understandable. I might look into getting a shop to do it that would be able to reinforce the structure of it.

[Mark888]

I wanted to circle back on the B&O tuning tweaks that I had been working on. So replacing only the lower A-pillar tweeter (Focal TWU1.5 - $100), leaving all other speakers OEM, and then building a crossover that sits at the amp in the back for the front highs and mids, I have things sounding really quite good. The final crossover drawing is below.

This does the following...

Tweeter crossover point ~ 5900 Hz, and attenuated by about 9.5 dB

Mid crossover point ~ 2900 Hz, and attenuated by about 1 dB

I know that looks like a huge gap in crossover frequencies, but based on the performance of these two drivers, it works quite well.

I hope this is helpful to others!

Screenshot_20220425-221313_Samsung%20Notes.jpg

[bruce_miranda]

I wanted to circle back on the B&O tuning tweaks that I had been working on. So replacing only the lower A-pillar tweeter (Focal TWU1.5 - $100), leaving all other speakers OEM, and then building a crossover that sits at the amp in the back for the front highs and mids, I have things sounding really quite good. The final crossover drawing is below.

This does the following...

Tweeter crossover point ~ 5900 Hz, and attenuated by about 9.5 dB

Mid crossover point ~ 2900 Hz, and attenuated by about 1 dB

I know that looks like a huge gap in crossover frequencies, but based on the performance of these two drivers, it works quite well.

I hope this is helpful to others!

Screenshot_20220425-221313_Samsung%20Notes.jpg

This looks so much more sensible than the weird capacitor Focal installs on these tweeters.

[Bobby Kinstle]

I wanted to circle back on the B&O tuning tweaks that I had been working on. So replacing only the lower A-pillar tweeter (Focal TWU1.5 - $100), leaving all other speakers OEM, and then building a crossover that sits at the amp in the back for the front highs and mids, I have things sounding really quite good. The final crossover drawing is below.

This does the following...

Tweeter crossover point ~ 5900 Hz, and attenuated by about 9.5 dB

Mid crossover point ~ 2900 Hz, and attenuated by about 1 dB

I know that looks like a huge gap in crossover frequencies, but based on the performance of these two drivers, it works quite well.

I often space out the drives with butterworth alignments, and especially when one driver has way higher sensitivity. SPL differences can actually shift the crossover point.

[vsaudi]

This thread is awesome. I have been tuning my B&O system in my 18 SQ5 by simply adding resistance to the individual speaker paths to adjust their balance. Mainly I was looking to pull down the levels of the tweeters which are way too loud compared to the woofers. I did a writeup here on audiworld - https://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-...uning-3025615/

I still plan to do more. Specifically, I would like to raise the crossover point of the front tweeters, and likely replace the 3 front tweeters. How easy is the A Pillar removal on the B9? I'm thinking of Focal or DLS tweeters. @vsaudi @Bobby Kinstle , thoughts ?

@bruce_miranda , I am also still interested in the connector you mentioned in my writeup. Can you tell me more about it?

Mark

Mark888

Sorry for slow reply.
A pillar is no problem like others said. Just don’t set off airbag.

I deleted upper tweeters. I think I had to drill out rivets. Just didn’t want the cheap stuff in there.

Mounted the focal tweeters from kx3 system in lower position with 30deg angle towards driver. Just cut the focal mounting housing that came with system to right angle and glued to A pillar cover. Then ran new wire to amp.
Wanted run all the speakers with active crossovers with Mosconi dsp 8-12 pro

Trickier part was running individual wires through molex on door. The mid range in door is on same wire as with capacitor. Running new wire to tweeter allowed me to splice into wire harness in kick board before it goes through door. And splice in door to the mid and bass to get direct wiring to amp/dsp for all.


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[vsaudi]

I wanted to circle back on the B&O tuning tweaks that I had been working on. So replacing only the lower A-pillar tweeter (Focal TWU1.5 - $100), leaving all other speakers OEM, and then building a crossover that sits at the amp in the back for the front highs and mids, I have things sounding really quite good. The final crossover drawing is below.

This does the following...

Tweeter crossover point ~ 5900 Hz, and attenuated by about 9.5 dB

Mid crossover point ~ 2900 Hz, and attenuated by about 1 dB

I know that looks like a huge gap in crossover frequencies, but based on the performance of these two drivers, it works quite well.

I hope this is helpful to others!

Screenshot_20220425-221313_Samsung%20Notes.jpg

Mark888

One thing that really helped me was using audiofrog microphone and Room EQ Wizard -REW with target response curve. Go to audiofrog and read Andy’s tuning tips.


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[kmarei]

i normally have the upper a-pillar tweeters disconected
and i have aftermarket tweeters in the lower location

the other day i was bored :)
so i moved my aftermarket tweeters to the upper location
i used a retractable blade to cut off the 4 plastic mounts of the tweeter
tip: disconnect the oem plug from the tweeter before you do this, my blade skipped and touched the metal mounting post to one of the terminals, and i think i blew the oem tweeter or the capacitor on it
anyway using the upper location moved the soundstage much higher, it sounds much nicer now.
i changed from a simple capacitor as a high pass, to a 12DB crossover that mounted at the lower end of the a-pillar, basically just to the left of the oem mid range on the dash, and ran the wire up to the tweeter

[Bobby Kinstle]

I turned off 3D effect which disables the upper A pillar tweeter, so I left it in there and plugged in. No reason to mess with it really.

[vsaudi]

Another thing that helped me is getting a factory tech manual. Mostly tricks on removal and assembly. Also had all of the wiring diagrams that were mostly right. Got it at Factory-manuals.com with my VIN but A5 model


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[Bobby Kinstle]

Oh yes the factory manuals are invaluable when it comes to taking your car apart. I highly recommend getting at least the 1 day subscription to erwin.

[Nexus1155]

So jw, with both the peerless and faital sold out everywhere is there any other suitable speaker for the dash center 4"? Mine is having some weird resonance thing going on even after putting dynamat there. I'd love to get a replacement asap! Thanks a ton

[kmarei]

So jw, with both the peerless and faital sold out everywhere is there any other suitable speaker for the dash center 4"? Mine is having some weird resonance thing going on even after putting dynamat there. I'd love to get a replacement asap! Thanks a ton

I think I have a spare peerless
Let me check and get back to you

[Bobby Kinstle]

So jw, with both the peerless and faital sold out everywhere is there any other suitable speaker for the dash center 4"? Mine is having some weird resonance thing going on even after putting dynamat there. I'd love to get a replacement asap! Thanks a ton

Peerless GBS in stock here:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/spe...4-48-inch.html

Yes they are in France. They ship to the USA painlessly but shipping is a tad expensive for a single driver.

If you are willing to cut out the plastic cup under the center channel, you could use the ferrite version of the Faital pro.

[Nexus1155]

Thanks! Not willing to cut at this moment as I don't want to alter that plastic cutout in case it makes the issue worse. Saw that site! Didn't know to trust the shipment, but thanks, will do. Only like $10-20 not too bad. Still went down the rabbit hole of looking at others all night lol might give one a shot just for giggles

[Bobby Kinstle]

Thanks! Not willing to cut at this moment as I don't want to alter that plastic cutout in case it makes the issue worse. Saw that site! Didn't know to trust the shipment, but thanks, will do. Only like $10-20 not too bad. Still went down the rabbit hole of looking at others all night lol might give one a shot just for giggles

I've ordered from them 3 times and shipped to California. Shockingly zero drama experience.

[Nexus1155]

All of a sudden a ton show up on ebay of the 4fe32. The peerless on the site would have been almost $70 shipped, opted for the ferrite faital then bam these came up 🤣 what is going on!

[Bobby Kinstle]

All of a sudden a ton show up on ebay of the 4fe32. The peerless on the site would have been almost $70 shipped, opted for the ferrite faital then bam these came up 🤣 what is going on!

Probably overstock.

I personally think the peerless is a better part for this application though.

[bruce_miranda]

Before you go chopping out the bottom of the Centre speaker enclosure bottom be careful of the massive snake of wires that run just below the enclosure floor.

[vsaudi]

agreed but being somewhat anal retentive I was annoyed having any remaining Chinese made drivers in my A pillars.

I even found focal stickers to go over the Bang & Olufsen badges...

[Nexus1155]

Any tips on getting the Dayton Tweeter in the front dash board in with the speaker connectors attached. Glued it to the stock basket it keeps popping my speaker connection off. Sorry voice to text


Hrmmmm seems the b9 sq5 is different... only decent pic I have the rest the upload manager won't take

[Bobby Kinstle]

Any tips on getting the Dayton Tweeter in the front dash board in with the speaker connectors attached. Glued it to the stock basket it keeps popping my speaker connection off. Sorry voice to text


Hrmmmm seems the b9 sq5 is different... only decent pic I have the rest the upload manager won't take

Make sure you have it twisted the right way. It doesn't just pop in there as a circle and fit in any orientation. There's actually only one direction that goes in.

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[Nexus1155]

I do, or thought I did, big tab to the right, but I will check again. It got pushed in flush to the housing fairly easy, but didn't sit as deep as stocker. Think it may be too thick somewhere, just slightly, but doesn't seem it. I'd hate to dremel it lol. Got it close once, but I def knew the connectors came off.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Did it click in place?

[Nexus1155]

Lol nope, going to go and take a dremel to the sides tomorrow that stick out ever so slightly. It's a very tight fit, but the stockers did click into place. Tough to remove too... had to use a curved needle nose to remove.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Lol nope, going to go and take a dremel to the sides tomorrow that stick out ever so slightly. It's a very tight fit, but the stockers did click into place. Tough to remove too... had to use a curved needle nose to remove.

I remember it was hard to get mine out too. But if it doesn't click in, it's not locked in place and will wiggle out. Not sure why that unplugs the cable though.

[bruce_miranda]

I remember it was hard to get mine out too. But if it doesn't click in, it's not locked in place and will wiggle out. Not sure why that unplugs the cable though.

I wonder if the raised nipple lock on the male plug has been damaged when the tweeter was unplugged and so now it won't stay put inside the female connector.

[jazza08]

I'll try to not drag this post on too much but a massive thanks to Bobby who really guided me through things (ontop of his spreadsheet). He came up with multiple options and combined with the rest of the research and tips in this thread I ended up on a bit of a mission.

Originally I just replaced the mids in the doors, after hearing that improvement combined with being frustrated at the oem subwoofer, missing frequencies and vibrations meant I went down the rabbit hole to do the lot.

I ended up going with:
Front door woofer - Aurum Cantus AC165-50C2C x2
Front door midrange - Peerless GBS-115N25AL01-04 x2
Lower A pillar tweeter - Peerless XT25SC40-04 x2
Rear door woofer - Dayton Audio GF180-4 x2
Rear door tweeter - Peerless XT25SC40-04 x2
Subwoofer - Kicker HS10
Rear deck surround - FaitalPRO 4FE35 x2
Center Channel - The Peerless midrange and tweeter

I had sound deadening added to doors, rear parcel shelf and under the rear seat. There is also foam placed strategically around the car to deal with rattles (the centre grill was the worst offender even with the advice on this page).
Tweeters were crossed at around 4850kHz with 8.2uf capacitors and the rear doors have 0.15mH inductors on them. The original subwoofer was removed and the HS10 was installed on the back of the rear seat. Bobby gave me plenty of options here but even when I listen to R&B I don't like earth shattering bass so this little unit was selected. It delivers so much more than oem, if it wasn't enough you could also add another but one is enough for me.

I tend to listen to quite a variety of music, for example anything from Kygo to Tupac to Billy Joel, so I was hoping the system was quite versatile yet powerful and it certainly feels that way. The highs carry much greater clarity and the lows actually play. To me it felt like the oem subwoofer just didn't go very low and missed out on a lot, overall I am much happier with the system.

Here's a few photos to share in case you're interested.

20220613_171543.jpga6e2ac66-.jpg45def408-.jpgcaa3e7e8-.jpg

[rodacollier]

Great stuff here, you guys are the true pioneers. I have a RS3 and haven’t seen any comparable work done. Lots to leverage here with your work and then just finding mounting adapter for the door woofers.