The CWA100 upgraded supercharge coolant pump thread...everything CWA100...

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 09:34 AM

editing now to add pictures and formatting changes:

I have finally gotten around to writing on this topic after people have shown interest. I want to thank Tecomotive.com for making the specs of these pumps so readily available to us all. The data they provide is available from Pierburg but tecomotive graciously makes this information easy to find and decipher on their site. They also make wiring harnesses available. Also please see this thread for a ton of info about these pumps:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...now-about.html

What is the CWA100?

The stock supercharger coolant recirculation pump in our car is an extremely robust and powerful flowing pump, particularly at flowing against head pressure. The stock pump is a Pierburg CW50.

That said as people add additional heat exchangers, killer chillers, or additional boost tgey may want increased circulation.

Here are the specs of the stock Pierburg CWA50 and CWA100:

As you can see the CWA100 almost doubles the flow of the CWA50. Looking at the technical documents, it also massively outflows the hobby style pumps such as the Varimax and Meziere style pumps when any head pressure is seen.

CWA100-2 versus CWA100-3

There are three different versions of the CWA100 pump but we will focus on the currently available versions, the CWA100-2 and the CWA100-3.

First it should be known that as far as the specifications suggests, there are no flow differences at all between these pumps. They should both work identically. The only difference appears to be in the following:

CWA 100-3 has slightly shorter water inlets and outlets.

The connectors on the CWA100-2 and CWA100-3 are different.

I have had both of these pumps.

Here is the connector/socket for the CWA100-2:

Here is the connector/socket of the CWA100-3:

Availability of the CWA100 variants:

-The CWA100-2 is an old AMG pump that was used in a ton of Mercedes Benz supercharged applications. The Mercedes Benz part number is: A0005000486

You can source this part from a multitude of MB dealerships as a remanufactured item in the $300 to $350 range. FCP Euro has it currently for $342 and of course that is with a lifetime warranty. Tecomotive also has this available for 249Euro and you can buy the plug and play connector from them. They are a great site to support as well as they have been kind enough to publish most of the research you see here.

-The CWA100-3 is a new VAG pump that is used overseas in the Audi Q7 4M hybrid. The VAG part number is: 4N0965567

Interestingly you can find this pump from salvage cars on ebay for around $75. HOP ON THIS WHILE YOU CAN!

Harnesses for each of these pumps?

You can easily make a harness for each of these pumps.

Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-2

Connector to the CWA10-2 Pump: BMW part number: 12527549033 (available at ecstuning or fcp for under $5)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-3

Connector to the CWA100-3 Pump: VAG part number: 4D0971993 (ebay for around $8)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

You should be able to make either of these harness for around $10-$15 or less.

PIN Diagrams:

CWA50

CWA100-2

CWA100-3

**bajan01** · 04-09-2019 09:45 AM

I have a CWA300 pump and harness from Tecomotive. If time allows, I’ll try to install this weekend on the SQ.

**theweebabyseamus** · 04-09-2019 10:01 AM

Id seen this and thought it was a good deal with the used units out there, but I don't fully understand from looking at the numbers how it doubles the flow rate? Seems like a mild increase.

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by theweebabyseamus

Id seen this and thought it was a good deal with the used units out there, but I don't fully understand from looking at the numbers how it doubles the flow rate? Seems like a mild increase.

The ratings are at different pressure. If you equalize it, the difference is much greater

Originally Posted by bajan01

I have a CWA300 pump and harness from Tecomotive. If time allows, I’ll try to install this weekend on the SQ.

That would be awesome to see your before and after temps too!

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 10:13 AM

Mike you should do before and after iat numbers like you’re doing for the TBs... if you can get it same day and same starting iat would be a good comparison. I’ll probably do this now that it looks easy :) great work!

**bajan01** · 04-09-2019 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

That would be awesome to see your before and after temps too!

Working on it. I took some data last weekend so if the temp/DA is similar this weekend I should have some good data to compare. Go big or go home and I’m hoping that this will help with what I have coming next.

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 10:22 AM

I'll update this with "after" performance numbers. I collected controlled condition baseline data but i've been waiting for mirror ambient conditions to collect the Post data

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 10:24 AM

Nice! Just ordered all I need for $139. You do this with bumper off or through wheelwell?

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 10:30 AM

wheel well. You can even do it with the wheel on but taking it off gives you some elbow room

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 10:34 AM

Perfect thanks man! If I can keep my iat below 60 that would be dope! On a 1/4 run now after sitting in the lanes I’m hitting 65-70 so 5C less and it’ll be money! Thanks again! If I knew it was that easy would of done it a long tome ago

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 11:11 AM

keep in mind we are still air to water heat exhangers. If you have no air flowing over the front hx then no matter how fast you pump water through it all you have is a metal heat sink sitting in front of your car. This will help reduce the rise in temps a tiny bit but its not a miracle :(

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 11:30 AM

Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by evil35r

Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

Aeroforce technology guage controls fans

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...auge-with-Podi

**Bartlett** · 04-09-2019 11:36 AM

Is there a "napkin math" way to know that the faster rate of flow will not be counterproductive?

Originally Posted by evil35r

Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

I'd imagine that shifting at peak power naturally has you shifting at like high 6k, so that should help offset temps. Temp increases seem exponential after high 5k RPMs, which is likely why Audi bled boost there.

No point in going to higher RPMs unless you end up avoiding 1 shift or more during a timed event.

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bartlett

Is there a "napkin math" way to know that the faster rate of flow will not be counterproductive?

I'd imagine that shifting at peak power naturally has you shifting at like high 6k, so that should help offset temps. Temp increases seem exponential after high 5k RPMs, which is likely why Audi bled boost there.

No point in going to higher RPMs unless you end up avoiding 1 shift or more during a timed event.

These cars make power to redline.

Plus you have gear torque. The lower gear puts down more power so staying in gear is beneficial. That said logging differences between shifting at 6300rpm vs a 7400rpm file showed maybe a tenth difference.

**Bartlett** · 04-09-2019 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

These cars make power to redline.

Plus you have gear torque. The lower gear puts down more power so staying in gear is beneficial. That said logging differences between shifting at 6300rpm vs a 7400rpm file showed maybe a tenth difference.

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Any thoughts on my flow rate question? I know that for folks with a Merc kit, especially with an added reservoir, this pump should do great. But, for a dual-pass kit with a reservoir?

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 12:05 PM

I agree triple pass + this should help. Dual pass probably not as much. Can’t wsit to try it with the merc

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bartlett

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Any thoughts on my flow rate question? I know that for folks with a Merc kit, especially with an added reservoir, this pump should do great. But, for a dual-pass kit with a reservoir?

Ill let you do the math but it seems to suggest that higher flow is a good thing as long as you dont cavitate...

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Mike

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 01:03 PM

Mike could you maybe take pics of or explain which wires to put in which pins or is it pretty straight forward?

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 01:25 PM

done

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 01:54 PM

Perfect! Ty

**Shane Horning** · 04-09-2019 02:11 PM

Anyone have a link where I can find a used pump for under 200 bucks? Can't seem find one . PM me if you want.

**bajan01** · 04-09-2019 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bartlett

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Not quite, it’s more of a matter of how high you can go in rpm and not have timing pulled/boost bled because your IATs are too high. I took a log the other day starting around 2000rpm in 3rd and ran it through to the change to 5th (this is in my SQ, ZF8 trans). My IATs started at 33C and max was 57C. This was about 2 minutes after a 3rd gear run that started at 30C and maxed out at 53C. Ambient was 20C, redline is 7200rpm. I have seen logs that show much higher IATs than this and they are most certainly losing power. A good cooling system should keep your max IATs decent and also help in a quick recovery. After running out 3rd, my starting IATs were only a few degrees higher for my next run shortly after and this helps in such instances as back to back 1/4 mile runs. I will add that water/methanol injection helps quite a bit in reducing IATs. Having said that, cruising around on the highway my IATs are about 7-10C above ambient and at such times I’m not spraying water/methanol.

**bajan01** · 04-09-2019 02:24 PM

..

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 02:30 PM

Agreed with the above and a lot of tuners you really don’t start to see timing pull till 60-65C ish. So if I can keep mine below 65C on a staged strip run I’ll be happy. On the street I rarely see above 55-60

**evil35r** · 04-09-2019 03:41 PM

Some interesting charts I found

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**TristanT14** · 04-09-2019 03:56 PM

So this helps with IATs and its cheap/easy to do?

**bhvrdr** · 04-09-2019 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by TristanT14

So this helps with IATs and its cheap/easy to do?

Preliminary data says maybe a few degrees c in improvement in a 0-120mph sprint. For some every degree counts

**evil35r** · 04-10-2019 12:52 PM

Mike can you also add what pins etc are needed. I got one of the connectors todays and they don’t come with pins. Would 1.5MM male and female pins work or do they need to be 1.2MM?

**bhvrdr** · 04-10-2019 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by evil35r

Mike can you also add what pins etc are needed. I got one of the connectors todays and they don’t come with pins. Would 1.5MM male and female pins work or do they need to be 1.2MM?

Here ya go..

Cwa100-2 plug

Stock female plug

**evil35r** · 04-10-2019 07:08 PM

Stock harness plug
967067-2 Wire seals (Newark.com)
1718762-3 Pins (only ones I could find in stock) (Newark.com)

Cwa100-3 plug
000979141E Female pins and seals (amazon)

18-20 gauge wire estimate 8-10” harness length with 3 different wires of different colors

Not buying a crimp tool I’ll borrow one from work

**nick0188** · 04-11-2019 12:05 PM

Anyone else have luck finding these for not a ridiculous price? I'm looking all over with no luck.

**evil35r** · 04-11-2019 01:21 PM

Just got a barley used one off eBay for $120

**bajan01** · 04-14-2019 05:32 PM

Fun times...going for a test run later tonight.

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html

**evil35r** · 04-14-2019 05:44 PM

Heck yea! Let us know!

**tmoe** · 04-20-2019 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by bajan01

Fun times...going for a test run later tonight.

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html

In for updates; also, tecomotive told me that they have not yet confirmed that PWM is working in the Audi B8.x 3.0 and the pump may just run at 100%. They believe it should be controlled by PWM but don't have evidence one way or the other, When you're testing can you see if logs indicate PWM? Thanks

**bajan01** · 04-20-2019 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by tmoe

In for updates; also, tecomotive told me that they have not yet confirmed that PWM is working in the Audi B8.x 3.0 and the pump may just run at 100%. They believe it should be controlled by PWM but don't have evidence one way or the other, When you're testing can you see if logs indicate PWM? Thanks

Yeah I need to test and post here and get back with Tecomotive. I will say that so far it seems to be cooling equally well compared to my 194/57 setup. I am now running a 203/57 setup. I really wanted to install the CWA100 pump first and test to compare to the CWA50 pump. In the end I didn’t want to put the car to service mode twice so I did the pump and 203mm crank ring together. Since I am seeing similar IATs at cruising as well as on 3rd or 4th gear pulls I can conclude that the CWA100 pump is flowing and therefore cooling better than he CWA50. More to come...tomorrow.

**Shuga** · 04-20-2019 02:05 PM

Will this work on all 3.0T’s?

**TruS4** · 04-20-2019 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by bajan01

Yeah I need to test and post here and get back with Tecomotive. I will say that so far it seems to be cooling equally well compared to my 194/57 setup. I am now running a 203/57 setup. I really wanted to install the CWA100 pump first and test to compare to the CWA50 pump. In the end I didn’t want to put the car to service mode twice so I did the pump and 203mm crank ring together. Since I am seeing similar IATs at cruising as well as on 3rd or 4th gear pulls I can conclude that the CWA100 pump is flowing and therefore cooling better than he CWA50. More to come...tomorrow.

I wouldn't conclude better until you do WOT and watch recovery