2016 S6 4.0T Turbo Failure...

[gk1]

Yes i have a 2013 s6, the f could be the original screen from production? I could be wrong as i don't know which part number was from 2013. If anyone knows maybe they can post it. i have 37k miles on the car now and ever since i got the car i been doing 4k/5k oil changes. I updated all the parts for some piece of mind since i do not have any warranty.

What oil have you been using?

[Clipse3GT]

Alright guys I finally have some updates on the car and a little bit of a solution that I created to the failing oil screen issue.

First is I got rid of the filter screen. Removed it and left the glass fiber reinforced ring in place. Then I modified the OEM oil lines to run inline turbo oil filters along with more hardline. The problem is you can't run softlines due to the heat and space also there is no room for bulky compression fittings or AN fittings. Also you have no room to go up due to the required engine cover with heatshielding and below you have the oil seperator. Also space is the other problem and the bigger problem is OEM hardline is .050 wall thickness .313mm or 5/16 line or AN5. Problem is no one on earth makes AN 5 fittings or inline oil filters. So choice is either go to 3/8 line AN6 or reduce the hardline to 1/4 or AN4 with 0.25 OD and .028 wall thickness which is what I did. Hardlines have a burst pressure of 1500 psi also. You might be lucky to find enough adapters but they will get far too bulky in that tight space.

It's much easier to go from larger line to smaller then vice versa. Minimum journal bearing flow is AN4 sized line at roughly 40 psi or so. OEM lines have a ID of 0.230 I reduce the ID to 0.194 for the feed and the filters have a 0.177 ID. Minimum sized orifice for journal feed is 0.125. My assumption regarding Audi using 5/16 line is that they put that fine filter screen in place so they have to make up for flow with larger ID lines. I went with 44 micron filters which are about the same flow as a standard oil filter. They are easily taken apart for cleaning with every other oil change.

The lines have been bored out to .25 ID so I can slip in the the new tubing. Then everything was cleaned and I brazed the lines in place with brazing alloy for stainless steel. I didn't bother cleaning the lines too well from the brazing since the engine cover goes on top. Just did a light scrubbing. I made 37 deg. flares with tube sleeves and nuts to attach the filter. I am still deciding if I want support brackets. But I doubt that I need them. Since everything is firmly locked into place with slight play from OEM hardline to braided line section. Anyways, the fittings, filters, and line do not interfere with the engine cover. Or OEM or SRM intakes.

Hope this helps someone in the future. I considered making these for the community. But they are time consuming and require a lot of small adjustments to fit just right. Hard to do without jigs etc...

Also the OEM lines are copper brazed or solder together. More than likely they are brazed.

[ichi d]

What oil have you been using?

motul 8100 x-cess, 5w-40.

[gk1]

motul 8100 x-cess, 5w-40.

Thanks. That is indeed a quality oil...but you do not know how it was treated for the 23k miles prior to your getting it and just the past 3 oil changes or so have been on the motul...correct?

[gk1]

Alright guys I finally have some updates on the car and a little bit of a solution that I created to the failing oil screen issue.

First is I got rid of the filter screen. Removed it and left the glass fiber reinforced ring in place. Then I modified the OEM oil lines to run inline turbo oil filters along with more hardline. The problem is you can't run softlines due to the heat and space also there is no room for bulky compression fittings or AN fittings. Also you have no room to go up due to the required engine cover with heatshielding and below you have the oil seperator. Also space is the other problem and the bigger problem is OEM hardline is .050 wall thickness .313mm or 5/16 line or AN5. Problem is no one on earth makes AN 5 fittings or inline oil filters. So choice is either go to 3/8 line AN6 or reduce the hardline to 1/4 or AN4 with 0.25 OD and .028 wall thickness which is what I did. Hardlines have a burst pressure of 1500 psi also. You might be lucky to find enough adapters but they will get far too bulky in that tight space.

It's much easier to go from larger line to smaller then vice versa. Minimum journal bearing flow is AN4 sized line at roughly 40 psi or so. OEM lines have a ID of 0.230 I reduce the ID to 0.194 for the feed and the filters have a 0.177 ID. Minimum sized orifice for journal feed is 0.125. My assumption regarding Audi using 5/16 line is that they put that fine filter screen in place so they have to make up for flow with larger ID lines. I went with 44 micron filters which are about the same flow as a standard oil filter. They are easily taken apart for cleaning with every other oil change.

The lines have been bored out to .25 ID so I can slip in the the new tubing. Then everything was cleaned and I brazed the lines in place with brazing alloy for stainless steel. I didn't bother cleaning the lines too well from the brazing since the engine cover goes on top. Just did a light scrubbing. I made 37 deg. flares with tube sleeves and nuts to attach the filter. I am still deciding if I want support brackets. But I doubt that I need them. Since everything is firmly locked into place with slight play from OEM hardline to braided line section. Anyways, the fittings, filters, and line do not interfere with the engine cover. Or OEM or SRM intakes.

Hope this helps someone in the future. I considered making these for the community. But they are time consuming and require a lot of small adjustments to fit just right. Hard to do without jigs etc...

Also the OEM lines are copper brazed or solder together. More than likely they are brazed.
]

Very nicely done. Can I ask if you have any pictures of what the new filters look like inside? I'm just curious as the look like really cool pieces. Thanks.

[ichi d]

Thanks. That is indeed a quality oil...but you do not know how it was treated for the 23k miles prior to your getting it and just the past 3 oil changes or so have been on the motul...correct?

that is correct. all audi was able to give me was warranty stuff that was done to the car nothing else in terms of service.

[15 Phantom S6]

Any concern regarding the heat from the manifolds cooking the oil in the lines directly above? Might want to add some heat protection sleeving over them... DEI makes a nice sleeve, withstands 1800˚F direct/2500˚F intermittent heat.. I used it when I changed my lines..

S6 Oil and Coolant Turbo Lines Heat Protected.jpg

[MolonLabe300]

Any concern regarding the heat from the manifolds cooking the oil in the lines directly above? Might want to add some heat protection sleeving over them... DEI makes a nice sleeve, withstands 1800˚F direct/2500˚F intermittent heat.. I used it when I changed my lines..

S6 Oil and Coolant Turbo Lines Heat Protected.jpg

What is the part number for those covers?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app

[15 Phantom S6]

I'll try to look it up, it came in a roll or long length of it and I cut it to size and used DEI's "Cool Tape" on each end of each line to secure the sleeve.. The Cool Tape can withstand 400°F direct and 2000°F of radiant heat...

[Clipse3GT]

Yeah I grab a few pictures tonight. They are 44 micron. They are pleated same as the revision G strainer to increase surface area. They are conical on the inside narrower at AN fitting widen to the filter and narrow again toward the exit.

[Clipse3GT]

Any concern regarding the heat from the manifolds cooking the oil in the lines directly above? Might want to add some heat protection sleeving over them... DEI makes a nice sleeve, withstands 1800˚F direct/2500˚F intermittent heat.. I used it when I changed my lines..

S6 Oil and Coolant Turbo Lines Heat Protected.jpg

Nicely done. The lines are stainless steel so I doubt need to keep them wrapped to protect from heat. I see you wrapped the coolant lines which might prevent heat soaking into them. However stainless is a poor heat conductor. So once heated or cooled takes lots of energy to heat or dissipate. Again, only thing I am still considering is add a sleeve just to the filters.

[15 Phantom S6]

My logic was that the incoming lines were being heated up from the surrounding heat so I wanted to protect the oil from cooking inside the lines or the coolant lines from getting further heat soaked..

I didn't wrap the return lines as I figured the coolant and oil would be hotter after travelling through the turbos, so they would dissipate some heat from those lines. Didn't want to keep that extra heat in the sleeves/lines.

Not sure if my logic is sound, but it made sense to me, lol...

[Clipse3GT]

Well car is back up and running over 600 miles now. Waiting for some break in miles before I put the APR stage 3 upgrade on it.

More people need to file engine turbos complaints to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

The only way we will get a recall for this terrible design.

[Dasquade]

Like i just posted in an other topic, i kinda believe engine/manifold/turbo heat AFTER you shut down the car is a big killer! Once the engine gets cut, oil won't flow anymore, compaired to the coolant afterrun pump, leaving the trapped oil too cook inside the hot turbo's. I tried to prevent this a little by heatshielding/thick insulation fabric the manifolds/hot side turbo and my downpipes all the way where they exit the car underneat. Downside is maybe you keep more heat inside the manifolds/turbo's/downpipes while driving (higher EGT's i think, i should recheck what they are going)...but once the car is stopped radiant heat is no longer able to keep heating up the lines. Ideally, we should have the oil pump keep flowing untill a certain temp...?

[Clipse3GT]

Like i just posted in an other topic, i kinda believe engine/manifold/turbo heat AFTER you shut down the car is a big killer! Once the engine gets cut, oil won't flow anymore, compaired to the coolant afterrun pump, leaving the trapped oil too cook inside the hot turbo's. I tried to prevent this a little by heatshielding/thick insulation fabric the manifolds/hot side turbo and my downpipes all the way where they exit the car underneat. Downside is maybe you keep more heat inside the manifolds/turbo's/downpipes while driving (higher EGT's i think, i should recheck what they are going)...but once the car is stopped radiant heat is no longer able to keep heating up the lines. Ideally, we should have the oil pump keep flowing untill a certain temp...?

Like the name implies the hot V designed is called that for a reason. The coolant gets pumped by the auxiliary pump. The ticket might be to run that auxillary coolant pump and fan for longer. Not sure if it can be set with VCDS. No way to recirculate the oil for longer without the engine running the oil pump. But by proxy the coolant running everywhere should also cool the oil in the turbos. But stainless steel is a terrible conductor. So it takes a long time to draw heat out.

[Dasquade]

Like the name implies the hot V designed is called that for a reason. The coolant gets pumped by the auxiliary pump. The ticket might be to run that auxillary coolant pump and fan for longer. Not sure if it can be set with VCDS. No way to recirculate the oil for longer without the engine running the oil pump. But by proxy the coolant running everywhere should also cool the oil in the turbos. But stainless steel is a terrible conductor. So it takes a long time to draw heat out.

If not mistaken coolant pump and fans are controled by the ECU software and thus can't be altered by a simple VCDS edit. If not mistaken that was one of the 'fixes' in the prefacelift ECu update that is part of the coolant line TSB. I asked member Tuner to have a look at it if he could find something in the files and adjusted over a custom tune. Alternatively, for those with the upgraded CWA100 (i suppose possible with the stock coolant pump aswell), tecomotive offers a 'tinyCWA' controle module that allows you to set several parameters, like: afterrun timing controles including fan activation controled over an external coolant temp sensor (https://www.tecomotive.com/download/...nyCWA_V3.1.pdf). I know, would be much easier if it all could be done by a simple tune upgrade with stock hardware...

[snohman]

While I understand there have also been a few cases of stock cars having their turbos fail, if someone was only interested in Stage 1 is there any part upgrade to do similar to Stage 3 with RS turbos?

Asked another way, if you were highly concerned about tuning due to turbo failure - would the only option to be safe to go Stage 2/3 and RS turbos, and skip Stage 1 altogether?

[wwhan]

While I understand there have also been a few cases of stock cars having their turbos fail, if someone was only interested in Stage 1 is there any part upgrade to do similar to Stage 3 with RS turbos?

Asked another way, if you were highly concerned about tuning due to turbo failure - would the only option to be safe to go Stage 2/3 and RS turbos, and skip Stage 1 altogether?

The RS turbos are not any more reliable than the S6/7 turbos. The reason to get RS turbo on the S6/S7 is to allow the Stage 3 tune.

Changing to the new version G turbo oil supply screen & new check valve may help with reliability, if your current turbos are not damaged. Clean and adequate oil supply to the turbos is the issue.

[snohman]

The RS turbos are not any more reliable than the S6/7 turbos. The reason to get RS turbo on the S6/S7 is to allow the Stage 3 tune.

Changing to the new version G turbo oil supply screen & new check valve may help with reliability, if your current turbos are not damaged. Clean and adequate oil supply to the turbos is the issue.

I figured it was a bit of a dumb question after I posted hah. Realized a few RS cars have fallen victim too